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Hardcore Legend

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11-Jul-2004
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10-Apr-2022
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Post
#110837
Topic
Am I the only one left??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110837/action/topic#110837
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Originally posted by: Darth Simon
look, our responses are getting shorter...2 or 3 more and we should be all in agreement, or at least satsified with each others point of view

-Darth Simon


Have you ever seen Stalag 17? At a certain point in discussion like this, you feel like the Major who has to stand in front of the commandant all night.
Post
#110828
Topic
Am I the only one left??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110828/action/topic#110828
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Originally posted by: Kingsama
or be used as bait to lure in skywalker at a later time,which was vaders plan the whole time.

If so, then Lando wouldn't have been present and Luke WOULD have to defeat Vader to secure her release and his. Otherwise, they'd both be dead.

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Then why not just say so in the beginning???

I'm pretty sure I did, in the first post or implied it when I stated the thing about incest and then this right after it.

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its because you mentioned troop careers and other such thing in your complaint. and again if they had already arrived they had probably already landed, thus not on the radar.

It still creates a timeline problem. If the troops had already landed, why shoot at Han before he lands?

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cause he didnt want to blow up when his ship hit the deflector sheild???

Valid point. But did the planet have a deflector shield or the DSII? Cause, I'd be thinking the Rebels would be getting on that whole planet deflector shield thing.

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i dont recall any shots of the entire cloud city that lasted more than a few seconds.

That doesn't matter. You see it when Han is flying in, and that's the only time that matters.


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i dont see any amount of huge squinting going on. i will be the first to admit that the OOT has issues, what film doesnt? I just concur with others that the PT has many more...

How many more? I mean, for their to be 'many' more, I would expect a significant number.
Post
#110824
Topic
Am I the only one left??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110824/action/topic#110824
Time
I say he would have killed Leia. He was going to kill her in ANH, until Luke and Han busted her out. I don't see any reason to spare her life this time. She is part of a rebel alliance and a traitor. Treason is punishable by death. You don't want Darth Vader looking weak on crime do you? Besides, he killed like 5 Imperial Officers for burning his toast earlier in the film, I doubt he would think twice about following through on her execution order after he pumped her for the knowledge he needed.

Leia as Luke's sister is the biggest continuity error in the films and really causes the biggest problems.

As I said in the previous post, I'm pretty sure Han can tell what kinds of ships they are on the Falcon's radar. I'll have to rewatch it and find out, but I'm pretty sure he distinguishes between them when either the two Star Destroyer's come up behind him or the TIE fighters come after him the dog fight.

And if you agree with me that the Imperial Shuttle doesn't have a cloaking device, then the only explanations availble for Han not seeing it arrive just before he did is that his radar stopped working or there is a timeline problem.

The officer said it, he could be wrong, but by saying it, you create a 'law' in a movies universe. The break that law, you have to provide a spoken or shown instance in which this law is contradicted. This is a problem with alot of the continuity errors between the 6 films. Some you can explain because the 'law' is elaborated on, others (Obi-Wan once thought as you did) you have to stretch to find a viable answer. You can do the most outlandish things in a movie, but once you set up the 'laws' of that world in which the movies takes place, to keep the audience believing, you have to try not to break those laws. Like, if out of the blue Luke started flying. Eh eh, I'm not buying it.

Post
#110813
Topic
Am I the only one left??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110813/action/topic#110813
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Darth Simon
also, what did Luke actually do when he got there to save anyone. all he did was almost get himself killed and have Leia RESCUE HIM.


Well, Leia wasn't taken to Vader's ship until Luke had entered Bespin's atmosphere. Also, if Luke hadn't shown up, Vader wouldn't have waited for him and probably would have gone with her to the shuttle. Thus, if Luke hadn't gone, Lando wouldn't have dared go against Vader (I assume) and she'd be dead.

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But didnt someone here once say that Leia & Luke werent originally gonna be brother and sister? so if you want to call it a plot hole (or poor planning/change in character/plot flow is more accurate) why dont you bring that up. Im not saying there are no 'plot holes' or more like inconsistancies in the OT, but most can be explained just as well (if not better) than the inconsistancies caused by the PT which should have never have occured because there was already plenty of 'fact' set down in the OT that could have easily been referenced/adhered to.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Because Lucas fudged things up even between the second and third films, he created the continuity error I'm talking about.


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Maybe the radar just pickes up ships, how do you know it differentiates between TIE fighters and Star Destroyers. with all the cloud cars flying around maybe he missed it.

You all are continuing this idea that I said Star Destroyers and TIE fighters landed. I'm not at all. I'm just talking about the Imperial Shuttle. I believe in ANH, Han looks at the radar and says "two TIE fighters coming in" or something like that.

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Cloaking device. I believe the line was "No ship that small has a cloaking device" Keep in mind this is said by an Imperial Officer who is also probably cocky because he is the commander of a Star Destroyer of the Galactic Empire. Maybe power consumption of the cloaking devices would be too much for a normal ship that size. maybe there are civilian issue cloaking devices that you cant get put on ships that small for 'legality' reasons, ie the Empire doesnt allow it. but it never said they couldnt have one on it, just no ship does. But we all know Han has made plenty of modifications to the Falcon, many that im sure the Empire or any officials would even think to look for on his ship so why not a cloaking device. Because some Imperial Officer said so? So far in the films the Imperial Officers havent really giving me much of a reason to have the most confidence in them.

Now who is stretching. And you aren't following. The Falcon having a cloaking device isn't the problem. It's the Slave I and the Imperial Shuttle that I'm talking about. If the Imperial Shuttle had a cloaking device, I'm sure Han would have used it going down to Endor.

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assuming radar works like it does here, its also very likely that while in a busy city a radar is a bit crowded and kind of hard to pick out an Imperial Shuttle landing. Plus, the shuttle might be 'drowned out' or all together hidden due to its positioning in the city/hangar bay/landing area.

Did you see alot of air traffic when we saw the shots of Bespin? I didn't.


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remember it was you who said you would be willing to provide answers/reasons for the plot holes in the PT. well, you have answers/reasons provided for what you find to be plot holes in the OT but your refuse to accept them. thats your choice, but it doesn mean they arent there and more likely/logical than the ones for some of the PT errors.


Never said there weren't explanations for these, but these are continuity errors all the same that take a considerable amount of squinting to make believable. So, anyone that can do that for these things, I don't want to hear complaints about the PT.
Post
#110795
Topic
Am I the only one left??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110795/action/topic#110795
Time
You're missing the point. The part you are taking from it is the meaningless point. That doesn't stand on it's own. The idea is that Leia is supposed to be Yoda's ace in the hole, that she is the back up plan. If Luke believes she will die, from Yoda's delivery you get the impression that he just wants him to ignore that even if it's true. I was always under the belief that Yoda knew it was true she would die and is giving Luke the run around. Thus, from the delivery of the lines, Yoda goes from saying let her die, finish your training to she is the other hope. It's just a giant circle, like time travel. If he stays and let's her die, then she isn't 'the other'. If he goes, then she is. Get it?

I didn't say that they needed Star Destroyers and TIE fighters were needed. What I was saying that it was established in the Star Wars universe in the films that both of those could be picked up on the radar of the Millenium Falcon. Earlier in the film it was established that a ship that small couldn't have a cloaking device. The Imperial Shuttles are not signifcantly bigger than the MF. Thus, if they could pick the other two ships up on the radar, they should be able to pick up an Imperial Shuttle landing.
Post
#110646
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110646/action/topic#110646
Time
I've loved reading all your changes and really have only had one bone of contention with them. That being the Stormtrooper hitting his head. Just because it's a signature of the Star Wars franchise. So much so that Jango Fett hits his head in AOTC. But it certainly won't take away from all the other great work you have listed here.
Post
#110751
Topic
AFI Honors Lucas
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110751/action/topic#110751
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Jedikev
To be honest he's a terrible director. "Star Wars" was a fluke. Thank Christ he never directed "Empire" if i was him i would have let Kershner directed the whole saga.


Even though the credits say otherwise, he directed ROTJ.

He also directed THX, which is directed wonderfully.
Post
#110736
Topic
Am I the only one left??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110736/action/topic#110736
Time
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Originally posted by: Kingsamasacrificing, yes. declaring her life meaningless no. Juest like in AotC where obi tells ani to do as padme would do, here yoda is telling luke to look towards the greater good and to serve it.

But Obi Wan doesn't secretly have Padme in his pocket as his next apprentice.

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i would say that anyone would do the same, imagine if you had the scurg of the universe in front of you responsible for killing millions, you would take an angery swipe too.

Saying anyone would do the same doesn't hold any weight, because the Jedi are supposed to be better than that. Sith use their emotions for their power. Thus, by acting out of a carnage emotion, Luke has begun his decent.



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so what you are saying is that when han is getting shot at in the clouds and then given the run around, also in the clouds he has the time or the presences of mind to search the horizen for ships???


If TIE Fighters and Star Destoyers come up on the radar, I would think an Imperial Shuttle would as well. Not to mention SLAVE I. Now, maybe SLAVE I had a cloaking device, but I never heard about it.
Post
#110728
Topic
Am I the only one left??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110728/action/topic#110728
Time
These quotes are getting too long.

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LUKE: And sacrifice Han and Leia?

YODA: If you honor what they fight for...yes!


That's called sacraficing.

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it says start down, the dark path, maybe it is just semantics, but i think that one could easily deferintiate between starting down a path and slipping up. Priest, monks, shamans, etc. slip up all the time, but that in my mind is a not the same as embrassing the negactive and wandering down its path.


I'd say attempting to kill someone out of anger 3 times isn't slipping up, it's embracing your anger, which is embracing the dark side. He was only stopped once on his own, he was successful in the cave and he was stopped by Vader on the DSII.

As for Bespin, You see the city when they fly in, it is in plain view. Lando says that they arrived right before they did. The timeline and dialogue doesn't allow for anything else but a plot loophole.
Post
#110715
Topic
AFI Honors Lucas
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110715/action/topic#110715
Time
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
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Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
How many of your favorite films did he buy? Oh, you mean HIS films that he's tinkered with.

Your arrogance blinds you.


No, I mean his favorite films.......like Flash Gordon and stuff like that. If I made movies....there would be a disclaimer that says George LucASS is not allowed to watch this imperfect film.


But you didn't make Flash Gordon, so for you to edit it would be nothing like Lucas editing his own works.
Post
#110697
Topic
Am I the only one left??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110697/action/topic#110697
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Kingsama
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Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
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Originally posted by: Warbler
Hardcode Legend: Yeah the OT has continuity errors, but you think its ripe with them? You are going to have to find alot errors to convince me of that.


Well, the incestual topic I brought up before.

'No ship that small could make it this far out into space' or something to that effect, yet Vader has a similar ship and seems to make it back to civilization ok.


The issue is that the TIE fighter has no light speed engines, making it nearly impossible for the one ship to plod its way to the middle of no where. In the EU it says something like he goes into a state of meditation to survive the trip...


The EU doesn't count in most instances. I mean, it works in the absense of a real definition or excuse, but really...it's just a plot hole that is left unplugged. If the line about ships that small wasn't in the film, you could leave the mystery of Vader getting back. Unfortunately, you say that in the Star Wars universe, it's impossible and then expect us to believe he did it that way.

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"Once down the path of darkness, forever will it consume you", yet Luke goes down the path of darkness 3 times, the Cave, his swing at the Emperor and his assualt on his father out of rage. Yet, somehow he shakes that all off?


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i think one could easily diferintiate between heading down the dark path and slipping up 3 times. Lets look at it with different words substituting the word sin for dark side. Even great men make mistakes and sin from time to time, but that is very different from actively participating in sin, aka selling drugs, cheating on you spouse, etc.

We aren't talking about normal people, in your analogy the Jedi would be priests, and if a priests sins 3 times on such an epic scale, he wouldn't be a priest much longer. Unless he's Catholic.

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"There is another", yet her life is meaningless enough for Yoda to let her die?

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when does yoda ever say let her die?

Yoda tells Luke to let Leia die, if he values her cause. If he let's her die, the 'other' is no longer there. Thus its a self-fullfilling prophecy. By Luke going, it preserves 'the other'. If he stays, there is no other. It's a conundrum.

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Boba Fett's Jedi abilities allow him to know the exact course the Falcon will be taking at a slow rate of speed, well enough to tell the Imperial Star Destroyers to go ahead, land, take control of the city, set up a garison and deal and ultimatium to Lando Calrissian.
Even if this isn't so, even if they arrived seconds before Han did, they seemed to work it all out pretty quickly cause in a matter of seconds, the Bespin planes go from shooting down the Falcon, to helping it land and Lando is able to meet them on the landing platform, all in a span of about 40 seconds. In that 40 second span, all the Imperial Troops are able to hide, so Han and Leia don't see them. Not only that, but they don't see the troop transports that would have been needed to bring the troops down to the city in the clouds, which would have had to have flown right past them to fit the above time table.


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1. its not like vader has to set up a garrison to take control, he simply has to make contact and say " listen here mr. colt 45, you either do as i say or i will level you little city. Deal?" When you can jump in a few star distroyer that are mostlikely in orbit some where else in the lando system you dont need to physically take over.

2. planets are big, and one can land on them without landing in the exact city you need to be in. Troops could have been moving all around the city from other cities all while han and leia are arguing in the room. Houston has two major air ports, one near downtown and one on the northside you could land at one and never see whats going on in the other.

I was under the impression that the city in the clouds was the only city on the planet, and that the rest of the planet was gas mining. Lando says the Empire arrived just before they got there. Thus, for the Bespin pod-planes to be shooting at Han and Leia and then to stop in a less than a minute real-time, it means atleast an Imperial Shuttle would have to land in the city, which is in view of the Falcon. The reason I say this, is that in order for Vader to talk to Lando, and then Lando appear on the docking bay, it would have to cut it close as well. And as they say about the Falcon, no ship that small has a cloaking device. Either Lando is lying, or Han and Chewie are blind.

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Some WTF stuff:
1.Tank went to the Academy, did he die? Where did Tank go?
2.If a door is magnetically sealed, wouldn't it attract all the metal waste in the trash compactor?
3.How many Sandpeople did you see walking the way Obi-Wan says they did?
4.5 X-Wing's and a Corellian don't dare take their chances against the Dark Lord of the Sith, who is the strongest opponent to the Rebellion. Of course not, he's only drifting into space all by himself. Don't worry about it, let's get back and party.
5.Why does Chewy need a protocol droid while in a detention cell, and for that matter, why let him put it back together in the spare time? I've known people that have worked in prisons, and not too often do they give them things they can swing at you. Han can't get a bed with legs, but Chewy can tinker around with a droid in his spare time.



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1. I have no idea what you are talking about

"You said that when Tank and Biggs left........."

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2. Speakers are also magnetized, but they can be sealed so that they wont effect your television screen or you computer moniter. I imagine that the same thing could happen with the door, since the last thing you want is to have to send some one in there to scrap off the crap that get stuck to the door. A better question would be why is there some sort of create in the garabage dump.

If I shoot a laser at my speaker, my speaker blows up. Did the door blow up?

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4. maybe they assumed he is died whether it be by the shot that han hit him with or by the huge explosion of the death star.

They couldn't see him on their radar?
Post
#110415
Topic
Should Lucas replace Guiness with an aged McGregor?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/110415/action/topic#110415
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Originally posted by: Trooperman
I think that instead of refilming the OT with digitized backgrounds and prequel actors, I'd refilm the PT with real sets and spaceship models instead of CG (and older actors- not a bunch of teenagers). That would be neat.


That's cost ineffective. The sheer scope of the worlds on the PT blow those of the OT away, visually. To make models and sets that big or that vivid would cost more than they were worth.