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GoodMusician

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23-Feb-2007
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Post
#306162
Topic
Star Wars Prequels/Original Trilogy: The Complete Scores (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/306162/action/topic#306162
Time
Just an update on the track list...

I keep searching to make sure I'm finding all the music and I'm finding bits and pieces... such as for the track I call "Glass Sculptures - Forbidden Kiss" which you all can imagine when that is... I called it Glass Sculptures because in the original and shot script, Padme talks about the sand on the little island they would swim to and about the man who lived there and would make Glass Sculptures out of the sand...

But anyways... the music is also used on the Deleted scene on Disc 2 for the extended arrival at naboo and it had two segments unused from the film including what I THINK was the original fanfare for the cut to the Naboo lake retreat... I say that because in the film they track music from "Arrival at Kamino" so I'm almost certain that's the fanfare. Just for clarity though, I left the film edit fanfare on the end of the track before because it does end cleanly since it's on the album... and it starts cleanly if you use the dvd rip from the deleted scene of the original fanfare.

Kinda confusing but read it again and you'll get it.

I also think they tracked in the timp roll for the film edit of that fanfare because it's not in the actual fanfare... and with the amount of stuff they layered in to mask the edits on the transitions (they tracked in chimes too twice... so a timp roll isn't that alien a concept)... I think it's safe to say that's where it went, but that the timp roll as edited in the film made it hard for me to edit it back on without layering it and muddying up the sound... so I left it separate for that reason to..


Anyways, here's the updated track list:

STAR WARS: Episode II (Complete Edit)

Disc 1 - (58:43)

01) Fox Fanfare (ESB Recording) - [0:22]
02) Main Title (TPM Recording) - [1:30]
03) Arrival at Coruscant - [0:19]
04) Ambush on the Landing Platform - [2:17] %
05) The Security Council - *
06) Old Friends - Annie- [1:36]
07) The Nightshift Begins - [0:57] *
08) Setting the Trap - [2:51] *
09) Chase Through Coruscant - [11:33]
10) Executive Orders and Obi Wans Concern - [1:38] *
11) Going into Hiding - [2:51] *
12) Departing Coruscant - [1:42]
13) Jedi Archives - [1:16] *
14) Yoda and the Younglings - [3:55]
15) Audience on Naboo - [2:26] *
16) Arrival at Kamino (Film Alternate) - [1:42] (*)
17) The Army of the Republic (Film Ending) - [0:52] *
18) Glass Sculptures - Forbidden Kiss - [2:19] %
19) Inspecting the Army - [1:51]
20) The Meadow Picnic - [2:32]
21) Interview with Jango - [2:50] *
22) Anakin and Padme - [3:54]
23) Making Contact - Dreams - [2:44] *
24) Tatooine Resolution (Tracked) - [1:41]

Disc 2

01) Jango's Escape - Arrival at Tatooine - [3:50]


* - Denotes film dialogue echo
% - SFX mixed in


# - Arrival at Kamino (Album Alternate) - [1:42]
# - Anakin's Dream (Album Alternate) - [ ]
Post
#306033
Topic
Star Wars Prequels/Original Trilogy: The Complete Scores (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/306033/action/topic#306033
Time
I don't think you guys are understanding.

Almost EVERY dvd rip has vocal echoes in it. Prominent enough that you can hear every word and make out every breath lol...

My idea was to maybe simply down mix the 5.1, allowing the center channel to remain and just releasing that.

Here's a comparison:

Security Council (Without Center Channel)

Security Council (With Center Channel)

It's just a quick comparison, but the first track is really the best I can do. The second track I just thre together so if you all thought it would be best to use the second, I can redo it.


The A New Hope edit is still being worked on, but as my site is not up, There's no real rush.


And as for why I denote from which each recording originates is because it's important to know that the Fox Fanfare used in every film (excepting Episode IV) is the recording made by John Williams and the LSO during the Empire Strikes Back recording sessions.

It's used in the prequels as well... that recording that's on the UE was recorded in 1997 and is NOT ever used, hence why I make the distinction.


As far as Main Titles... both Main Titles and End Credits Intro are usages from the TPM recordings and were not re-recorded for each film like in the OT, so yes... the main titles for each of the first three films is the same.



Post
#305951
Topic
Star Wars Prequels/Original Trilogy: The Complete Scores (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305951/action/topic#305951
Time
What would you all think if on the tracks that simply cannot be cleaned, I simply allowed the dialogue... the complete 5.1 mix... there's nothing I can do about the dialogue excho, you'll hear it anyways... but what about simply ripping the dvd audio and placing it in the set. It would be like a soundtrack/storybook hybrid since you'd hear the talking anyways, and there's no way to remove it....

Bad idea? Good idea?

I mean, I'd do as much as I could to work everything out... to clean anything I can and present it as clean as possible... but if I can't...

Like right now the new track list is:

STAR WARS: Episode II (Complete Edit)

Disc 1 - (30:35) so far...

01) Fox Fanfare (ESB Recording) - [0:22]
02) Main Title (TPM Recording) - [1:30]
03) Arrival at Coruscant - [0:19]
04) Ambush on the Landing Platform - [2:17]
05) The Security Council - *WITH FILM DIALOGUE*??
06) Old Friends - Annie- [1:36]
07) The Nightshift Begins - [0:57]
08) Setting the Trap - [2:51]
09) Chase Through Coruscant - [11:33]
10) Executive Orders and Obi Wans Concern - [1:38]
11) Going into Hiding - [2:51]
12) Departing Coruscant - [1:42]

So far I've managed to diminish the vocal echo with playing around with the balance to almost drone it out... so far I think it's working rather well...

Anyone else love the little harp "bum" at the end of Departing Coruscant? hehe
Post
#305946
Topic
Star Wars Prequels/Original Trilogy: The Complete Scores (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305946/action/topic#305946
Time
Even if its the worst sounding edit I've ever done?

I can't do too much... so I'm going to do what I can with what I can.

I'm going to try and re-balance the album tracks... remove some hiss but also widen and broaden the sound... make it sound better with my 5.1 program.

I'm gonna do what I can. I can't garuntee much but I'll try...

Post
#305935
Topic
Star Wars Prequels/Original Trilogy: The Complete Scores (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305935/action/topic#305935
Time
Originally posted by: TheTome
GoodMusician, I realize this isn't quite on topic, but I thought you might get a kick out of this. It would appear that John Williams has heavily borrowed from the movie Aliens in one piece. If you play the track "Greivous Flees" (at the 1:15 mark), and then play the track "Futile Escape" from Aliens, you will notice a striking similarity.



One could make a similar argument that what he did with the colingo and such on the low strings, and the dissonant strings in violins and the piano/brass accmpanyment is very Williams ... and then the congo drums are similar to the music on Tatooine for ANH

Even the descending half steps are very similar.

As for the similarity to Grevious Flees... I can't quite hear the disctint similarity... but I can hear what you mean by it being simliar... you mean note wise...

I would argue they are about as different as possible... because of the inflection... both have very different inflections.
Post
#305934
Topic
Star Wars Prequels/Original Trilogy: The Complete Scores (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305934/action/topic#305934
Time
I'm in the middle of re-ripping the DVD... I have purchased a new program since last time I edited these so I'm gonna "try" to do my best.

No promises however. Right now, the track list as I have it is:

STAR WARS: Episode II

Disc 1

01) Fox Fanfare (ESB Recording) - [0:21]
02) Main Title (TPM Recording) - [1:30]
03) Arrival at Coruscant - [0:17]
04) Ambush on the Landing Pad - [2:12]
05) Council Meeting - [2:43]
06) Old Friends - [1:36]
07) The Night Shift Begins - [0:52]
08) Zam the Assasin - Chase - [14:29]
09) Anakin and Palpatine - [1:44]
10) You've Grown Up - [2:42]
11) Departing Coruscant - [1:42]
12) Dex Cafe (Source)
13) Jedi Records - [1:15]
14) Yoda and the Younglings - [3:54]
15) Audience on Naboo - [2:27]
16) Arrival at Kamino - [1:38]
17) The Finest Army - [0:56]
18) Glass Sculptures - [2:28]
19) The Army - [1:53]

Disc 2
01) Meadow Picnic - [2:30]
02) Interview with Jango - [2:43]
03) Anakin and Padme - [3:59]
04) Making Contact - Nightmares - [2:44]
05) Tatooine Resolution (Tracked) - [1:36]
06) Jango's Escape - Arrival at Tatooine - [3:50]
07) Meeting Watto - [0:58]
08) Tuscan Camp, Dark Side, Emergency Powers - [13:13]
09) Cout Dooku's Offer (Tracked) - [1:08]
10) New Authority - [1:49]
11) Going to Rescue Obi-Wan - [1:29]
12) The Droids Follow - [0:31]
13) On the Conveyor Belt - [4:10]
14) Captured - [0:37]
15) Love Pledge - [1:52]
16) Ride to the Pillars - [0:53]
17) The Arena - [4:19]
18) Battle for Geonosis I (Tracked) - [5:58]
19) Battle for Geonosis II (Tracked) - [2:11]
20) Battle for Geonosis III (Tracked) - [1:48]
21) Battle for Geonosis IV (Tracked) - [2:03]
22) Going After Dooku - [2:17]
23) COnfronting Dooku - [2:22]
24) Finale - [5:16]
25) End Credits Intro - [0:53]
26) Across the Stars (Album) - [5:33]
27) End Credits Finale - [1:39]

28) Arena Source
29) Finale (Alternate)
30) End Credits (Film)

I've also decided to try my best to limit the hiss on the album released tracks ... so ...we'll see...
Post
#305922
Topic
Star Wars Prequels/Original Trilogy: The Complete Scores (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305922/action/topic#305922
Time
I made an edit... I just never released it.

I didn't feel it was up to the standards that I put in place for my own edits. I didn't feel it was...worthy of a release because of the disapointing amount of bad sounding tracks. It was almost easier to listen to the album for a change.

If you woudl all like, I'll see about making my personal edit available... it won't be what you're use to...

Post
#305911
Topic
Star Wars Prequels/Original Trilogy: The Complete Scores (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305911/action/topic#305911
Time
maybe one day, when more material is available. The problem is that there is no consistency. Usually certain tracks will be entirely dvd rip or video game rip or from the album... but they're not. They jump around and the drops in quality are... well.. .obvious... and it sucks.

The album for Episode II is REALLY hissy...

The DVD's in every language (unlike in Episode III) have a vocal echo. With Episode III I was able to rip it from the German DVD to get clean audio... but for Episode II every dvd has the vocal echo which makes it,... not worth listening to.

Then you have the amount of material not used and the amount of editing that took place... It's hard to tell what's real, what's authentic, or where anything goes.

It's just a monster of a project and has all the problems going for it that make it...well... not something I'd like to edit becuase frankly, I don't think I can do better than the bootlegs of it out-there currently...sad as that is.

And yes, the site is currently down. I'll post when iut's back up.
Post
#305910
Topic
The Darth Vader theme
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305910/action/topic#305910
Time
lol... good question.
I can understand the idea that maybe they should have incorporated it, but I think that it's fine the way it is.

using vaders theme there I think would be too... fan-boy ish... and not really artistically authentic. But I like what Adyn's doing with his edit. Inserted or edited scenes have to have some music in them, so he incorporates bits of the score to Empire, including Vader's theme.
Post
#305785
Topic
The Darth Vader theme
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305785/action/topic#305785
Time
First off, the implication that John Williams has any ego is ...well... laughable. He is perhaps the most humble man in hollywood and far more humble than he needs to be. So no, his ego did NOT get in the way.

As for why it wasn't in A New Hope, I'm sure we all know that the ANH was made to be a stand alone film and no intention of continuing the series was known when the first film was made.

As such, when williams composed the music, he composed it in a lite motif style, but did not focus a lot on how to develop themes. In fact, there's an interview with him for Episode I where he says there was almost NO motivic development in the OT because it simply wasn't something they planned for.

As such, Episode IV has a "bad guy theme" but it's never used again in the series.

Why no Vader's theme was inserted I think is because it's the first film to be re-released as a special edition. If they did a LOT to it and added new music and such, I think Fans would have been put off right from the bat. (Notice that most of the changes are in the other two releases which came months latter).

So I think the real issue is that the prequels were started with the intent on having motivic development, but when Episode I's final battle was re-edited some 5 times, and when Williams could no longer be called upon to rescore it, they simply and barbarically ripped his music apart. He entered the project hoping to use it as a great exercise in motivic development and musical literature. Look at the amount of music written for Episode I! It's nearly 3 hours!

Then look at Episode II... it's less than a single CD's worth of music.

Episode II suffered because Williams was very disenchanted and no longer saw the project as what he was hoping it would be and probably didn't feel the need to compose music that would simply be ripped apart (which he is actually quoted as saying he would not write music for the final battle of Episode II probably for this reason... and the fact that he only ever composes music for actual film. If the Video hasn't been presented to him, he won't compose to it. That's how we know that Jedi originally had a longer introduction and that the scene of Luke Building the Lightsaber exists because williams wrote music for it).

By Episode III, Williams and Lucas must have sat down and talked it out. Certain decisions were made to allow for tracked music into Episode III, but it was pre-planned rather than something they'd do behind Williams back. The score's strength is much stronger because Williams felt more motivated to do it and he wrote a lot more material.

I tell you all this becuase the idea of even having Motifs that develop was something new to the prequels, and really only starts in Episode I but is crushed almost right after because of these events. Williams wrote Anakins theme with the intent of having some development, but because of what happened, never truly used it to the extent he could have.

Episode III did have some development of themes but Episode II almost had none.

So with that being said, asking why Episode IV didn't have the music from Empire included... the simplest answer is it wouldn't have fit the film and Lucas probably didn't like the idea at all.

I know that personally, I always saw Vader in ANH as weak. He was weaker than he was in Empire. After the fall of the Death star and the death of the one "holding [his] leash," Tarkin, I felt that he became a more prominent and stronger character; more free and more important as his relationship with Luke and Leia begins to develop and the Emperor becomes more involved.

I think that because of this, not having a real theme for Vader until then works fine, and having the Imperial Theme in ANH works fine as it is although Adwyns edit of ANH "Star Wars Revisited" I noticed DOES include some tidbits of score from Empire so perhaps you should keep an eye on that edit
Post
#305734
Topic
Wanted: HD Jurassic Park - for an edit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305734/action/topic#305734
Time
I'm very much aware of the process that they put the film through. I'm talking about the original what was seen in theatres to the dvd...

Not the original recorded to what's seen in theatres.

And as far as blurryness, you completely misunderstood me there too.

I said the DVD transfer was blurry. Not the film. The film was cleaner and crisper with not as much color loss and filter on TV than on DVD.
Post
#305645
Topic
Wanted: HD Jurassic Park - for an edit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305645/action/topic#305645
Time
I'm not too familiar with what techniques there are to remove grain and I didn't mean just grain.

The colors can also be lost a bit.

Minority Report I remember reading suffered a bit not really from grain, which as you said it had for effect, but for certain color losses compared to the original image.

JP is like that as well with certain things looking different on the television broadcast and as I said, dark areas having a bit more contrast without having to change the image as opposed to changing the image on the DVD and still not getting the higher contrast.

This is what I was told and was asked to ask around for so That's what I'm doing heh..

I do know however that the bluryness present in JP doesn't need to be so.
Post
#305635
Topic
Wanted: HD Jurassic Park - for an edit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305635/action/topic#305635
Time
Whoa... You need to calm down lol...

What I've read and seen is that most every Spielberg DVD release is very bad quality and I have to concur that most ones I've seen lack a lot of clarity. Granted, these are old films that didn't just come out and don't get the special treatment but even then, modern ones don't get that great releases anyways.

It's sort of like Williams. Once he's released an album of the score he's done. Of course I'm happy to have the album, but I'd be happier to have the full score... and in most cases, the albums are very dead sounding and very quiet too.


Similarly, the first releases of most speilberg films are grainy or blurry. JP, for example, has a great deal of blur and grain at times, especially CG'd scenes such as the "first sight" scene.

But I'm not here to argue that...

I'm here because the more detail we can see the better. You would be bored if I tried to explain all the things we've learned through careful and intent study of both the fullscreen and widescreen versions of the film and how each taught us something different and how minute the details were. And as such, I'm interested in getting a higher quality version if not just for myself, and my site... but for the mod as well.

So, if you have something to rant about, make a thread ranting against people who don't like blurry transfers... but please,leave this thread to its original intent.


As for the sound mixing I don't mind it. I think it's a lot clearer though musically... the music could probably be ripped rather cleanly. The dialogue being different angers me...

Gennario says "Oh Jeeze!" instead of "Oh Jesus!"... which doesn't make sense because 4 minutes latter, we hear him praying the "Hail Mary" in the bathroom... so to change one but not dub the other is completely ludicrous to me...

And I love though, that they leave "God" but take out "Damn." But whatever lol... that's just the quirkiness which is the generalized American populous.

But the whole thing has been sped up slightly for the television broadcast. You can tell when the sound slightly warbles in and out. I've only noticed it on AMC... so I think it's just something they do.
Post
#305518
Topic
Wanted: HD Jurassic Park - for an edit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305518/action/topic#305518
Time

Hey all, I was talking to a friend of mine about DVD transfers and Jurassic Park and such, and we noticed that the Full Screen Transfer to JP actually had, in many cases, more image to it than the wide screen… which I thought odd but when I learned more about DVD transfers I realized why…

This was kind of important because he’s spearheading a project to use the Crysis engine to make an interactive Jurassic Park that’s extremely realistic. I’ve seen the work they’ve done so far and its great! I’m really excited to be a part of it.

Well, today he mentioend to me that JP was on AMC and I’ve noticed before that the audio is different. For instance, they speed up the broadcast slightly so the music at times can warble in and out of tune. Also, the tv mix is VERY different… Not only because it’s tv (removing curse words) but also some other less obvious changes.

Well, one other thing he notices is that the transfer seems to be a LOT better than the transfers on the dvd; that the definition in the black areas are so much brighter and clearer than they are on the DVD.

Now mind you, since JP came out on DVD, it’s been the same transfer… and Spielberg DVD’s are notorious for having piss poor washed out grainy transfers.

Well, I’m kinda half asking and half stating this but I’d really love if someone could digitally record in the highest quality possible the film.

If anyone has this ripped, I’d really love to get a copy.

I ask not because I don’t ahve the DVD… or that I Want to watch it, but that Jurassic Park, like many spilberg films, lives a lot in its subtlety. There are things about the films that we just wouldn’t know if it weren’t for some people with sharp eyes.

I myself discovered that there seems to have been a hint to there being more than one island in the film itself, on the computer screens.

But anyways, my friend is certain it is HD which would be wonderful as well as it would be the only HD version of the film available.

I ask if anyone has it to contact me or if someone can record it, it airs again tomorrow night on AMC at 6:00 EST… if someone could do that, I’d really love to get that.

It is not just for viewing, let me reinterate: it is both for the game mod we’re working on, but also for the JPL encyclopedia. If there is anyhting in this we’ve missed, I want to know.

Thanks again

Post
#305304
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305304/action/topic#305304
Time
I know on page 1 you say that this will be in PAL and perhaps an NTSC release, and all those clips we've seen have been in pal, but is there any chance you might release this in NTSC as well? I haven't had the chance to read through all 140 pages lol...so I thought I'd ask.I apologize if this keeps getting asked.

I wouldn't care if it weren't for the fact that the music gets pitched up about a half step (although it's not quite... it's sometimes sounding a bit more... like a quarter tone as well...


Otherwise I couldn't care less...


And I know there was some talk about an ioslated score. You wouldn't feel that an ioslated score might be a misnomer in a sense... being the music alone but at the same time off pitch.

But past that it looks wonderful and however you do release it, I'll be sure to get a copy heh...

I just thought I'd ask if you'd thought much about it. I know you were talking just now about rendering frame by frame, and I'm not sure how you'd push it to NTSC unless you duplicate frames which is how I assume its done. Wouldn't know honestly....
Post
#305295
Topic
Info: What is your dream fan edit if you could get the rare footage?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305295/action/topic#305295
Time
I'd love to see the complete 'Land Before Time.' I hear there was a lot cut from the ending of the film, because sharptooth was too scary... and if you listen to the score it's obvious there are some omissions.

Not to mention the film has NEVER been released in widescreen...

My other dream edit would be the star wars saga... any one of them. give me a few weeks in that rare, unused, unseen footage, and I'd put together some nice stuff... ESPECIALLY for Episode II and III...heh

Legend's missing material, and then lastly would be Jurassic Park's missing material... Oh! The fangasms I'm having lol...

Not that the film really needs editing, but the missing material/ unused/ alternate material from JP and ESPECIALLY TLW would be great to have...
Post
#305294
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305294/action/topic#305294
Time
I know this is kinda off topic, but I actually emailed William Hotsburg I believe his name is now (this was 2 years ago lol) about Legend.

I've been kinda working on making it a musical. I'm not sure how I'd ever get it done but I wanted to go to the source and see what his thoughts on the idea were.

Personally, I love the Goldsmith score and even though I'm a composer, I don't think I could ever surpass such a score. It would be interesting to see it on stage and I've already worked out a few things.

It's cool to see people who are still interested in the film.

I personally have always loved the film and would love to see this edit. I have the two disc set but I'd like to see how the changes work.

I always liked the longer version of the film, but I felt it still seemed rushed. I find Ridley Scotts editing abhorrent in his films. He has a great 3 dimensional vision and artistic eye, but can't edit worth crap, so a good edit would go a long way for this film which I thought lacked a lot of cohesion becuase of the editing.

I liked the Tangerine Dream score, but I love the Jerry Goldsmith score. Something about it just gave it such a beautiful mysterious sense. I heard they're coming out witht he complete version (it's on amazon.com actually with a release date next year I think it is but that's about all the information there).

I'd love to see the film completed as it had been written or intended even. It seems so many forces stood in the way of the film, from natural to human... it's rather sad really but makes it that much more interesting a story to be told.