GoodMusician

I wonder if they added the blue to kinda make the film seem colder... because DAMN ...that's a lot of blue..

I mean, sort of how Minority Report uses filters... to make the audience feel something that's not neccessarily the case... but this was all done after the fact...

I don't think that's what his main potin is or maybe I'm misunderstanding.

He's wearing pretty much the same outfit in all the films... and exclusind here, the stripe is red...

As for "mickey mousing," I've never studied composition, this is simlpy though my own studies... I kinda perfer Looney Tunes than Mickey Mouse. Mickey Mouse cartoons didn't use music, especially classical and jazz pieces like those by Williams fathers conductor, Raymond Scott, like Looney Tunes did heh....

well, he changed the color of the insignias on the rebels helmets in ANH...

I added it to the list either way ;-)

is it red in the other films? and in the whole film excepting certain scenes?

nice suggestions... all noted...

Curious...ady... perhaps the turret should just be a smuldering stump because...well... my guess is that it didn't survive the onslought of the attack... ;-)

And also, in that same shot... there's an AT-AT that shoots a soldier and then it shoots the shield generator... do you think it would HONESTLY take the time to do that?

Maybe you should have another AT-AT... or an AT-ST shoot the soldier...

I think we all need to settle a bit...this is Ady's edit. He's being kind enough to keep us informed and keep us in the loop and be a part of the creative process by letting us voice our opinions and concearns.

That having been said, I think that we've all kinda exhausted the argument about the music. I have a few more vids I'm going to post though just to show what I mean.

First vid: Since I apparently didn't mix the music right, here is a proper mixing of the original opening cue.

Video 1

Second vid: This is to show what I meant when I said that the Alternate probe droid is not synced right in the film. The error, however, is somewhat unfixible. You would have to rebuild the SFX for one... and for two, there is a mix point between the two cues that is completely unreleased... and only heard in the film...a low, piano chord...almost a "bang" between the two... The fanfare at the end of the cue is not spoken about in Metassinos edit,but listening carefully, you can hear the hiss level of the music rise a bit as it leads into it which is a telltale sign that it's a different cue being mixed in/over the other... I think by the point it came time to write the alternate, Williams knew most of his music wasnt' being used, so he wrote an "insert," a not entirely uncommon practice as he even wrote one for Jedi latter for the Ewok battle..

The insert would be what he intended to be placed as Han enters echo base...

Film Alternate synced correctly

Third Vid: This video shows the Probe Droid Roncon sequence. It shows how that playful, strange music is meant to be for the probe Droid... although I do enjoy Ady's edit, removing the probe, I still think if you plan to do that, to omit the music that was meant to cover it.

Here's that video (plus the original edit of the presentation of the Imperial Fleet)

Probe Droid Recon

EDIT: I can't keep up with you all! Jeeze! lol

I think, if Ady would consider it, it might be cool to have the isolated score preserve what was intended... and maybe, as mentioned, alternates could be listed under deleted scenes as being (alternate mixes) or some such...

As for the feeling behind the two, I agree that the quieter is the more apropriate... but I still feel that the louder one FITS the film better.

What I've learned through studying film music is that there are maybe 3 ways of going about composing the music.

1) To create a sort of "directors chair" version of the film. This is music that is more like mood music, it sits behind the film, and explains the scenes to an extent while not really ineracting with them. This is the USUAL Williams approach.

2) To create a sort of "looney tunes" version. What I mean by that is in Looney Tunes, when someone hits someone over the head or falls off a cliff, the music notates this. Jerry Goldsmith was VERY much prolific in this sense (He even did the Looney Tunes Films lol). Cuts in the film are hightened by a change in music or a change in pace... explosions are notated with cymbol crashes...etc.

3) Explaining how the Audience should feel. This one is a bit harder to explain. It's closer to the first one, as it doesn't directly interact with the film, but at the same time, it speaks directly to the audience in trying to explain how or what they should be thinking/feeling.

IE: Jaws... hearing the 'daaa dum.... daaaa dum." They know something is coming.

The film version of Probe Droid is sort of this version. You don't really know what you're seeing going on... or how it relates... so you get this uneasy... but somewhat... "Ok?" feel to the music. An uneasyness and curiosity of "Where's this gonna go?"

The unused version is closer to the second and first. It uses the cuts in the film and the visuals to explode with music and show whats going on (perhaps kinda saying LOOK WHAT WE CAN DO WITH VISUALS NOW! lol) and at the same time, since it's from the empire, you know it can't be good... I think almost of spiders when I hear the music for the probe droid coming out of the hole. This version, however, almost tells you "This can't be good."

I did...

As far as the SFX for that short sequence, I didn't boost them... but the rest of the sequence I restored the music in, I tweaked it so it would be in balance with the dialogue...

Here is a bit of Metassino's break down of the score that you got if you bought the original SE with the booklets.

Here's him speaking about the ORIGINAL cue:

" The "Main Title" leads into The Ice Planet Hoth, the beginning of which was eventually rescored with "The Imperial Probe" (see track 4). Both versions start with dancing flutes and a rising horn phrase over which Darth Vader's theme is introduced by a solo piccolo. This original version continues with the entrance of trumpets, leading the orchestra to a great crescendo of Vader's theme and beginning an extended sequence of more than sixteen minutes of continuous music. Nine minutes of this music was either dropped, rescored, or replaced by other cues. A grandiose passage leads to a rhythmic section featuring the tuba, followed by a sudden quietness as Luke's tauntaun is seen striding across the glacier. Strains of the main Star Wars theme are played by a solo trumpet as Luke appears, and then, as he converses via comlink with Han Solo, the French horns introduce the new theme for Han and his growing relationship with Princess Leia. Bombastic percussion and trumpets intervene when Luke is suddenly attacked by a wampa ice creature. This is followed by unused militaristic music for Han Solo's arrival at the Rebel base."

Here is him talking about the alternate which is used in the film.

"Following Luke's recovery, the focus returns to The Imperial Probe, beginning here with the subtle, atmospheric piece which in the finished film replaced the first portion of "The Ice Planet Hoth." Vader's theme is again played by solo piccolo, and then suggested subtly by the quiet chord progressions heard during the probot's landing."

I honestly do NOT believe the sequence was changed at all EXCEPTING in the music. Metassino would have mentioned it. If you read his work for, say, return of the Jedi, when he talks about the opening cue, he explains how the final portion was for a never before seen edit of the film.

I don't want to be rude, but that really how it was intended... AND how it was suppose to be synced. In the film it's a few seconds off from that syncing... which would be my only advice to Ady if you choose to use the version in the film, see about resyncing it.

I'll post an example.

As for the original being too loud... You have to jump back to the year this came out... people had just finished the phenomominon that was Star Wars... now they're going to see the new one... and THIS is how it begins... Not with the good guys... not with seeing the falcon or Han solo... or Even a planet really... It begins with a star destroyer shooting little things out which until it crashes and opens, you don't realize is a probe droid.

I think the music could go either way. Personally, I never really like how the quieter music fit... but if williams had made a third alternate of quiet music that fit as well as the loud original version, I'd say to use that...

EDIT: to then comment on your edit Ady, it's kinda cool... but I think it speeds things up a ALOT...

The thing you all aren't getting is that the music you say should cover Luke on the taun taun from the distance is a DIRECT QUOTE of the music from the Probe Droid Destruction sequence!!... lol... so it's...quite evident it was meant to cover the Probe Droids reveal...

Which in a way kinda works how you have Ady... it kinda hints to what it was and tells you (musically) what it is... but visually it hides it...

The only issue I think is that for people to get it, they'd have to have heard the "Probe Droid Reconnassiance" cue...and if they havn't, they might not understand it to mean such...

I'm posting this here for Adywan's benefit so its easy to find.

If you have suggestions, check to see if its on the list. If not? Post in the other thread and it'll be added to this list.

Thanks

-B

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General:

1. Color Correction #
2. black R2D2 panels
3. Saber colors
4. Image Jittering
5. Obi Wan's Ghost to always appear Transparent
6. Remove black dot markers on wall where stormtroops lasers will hit (Bespin)
7. Add blast marks to stormtroops who are shoot
8. Change location of Laser shots where they hit the wall in same spot twice
9. "Blood Stripe" on Han's pants color correction

Sound:

1. Boba Fetts Voice *
2. Changing the Wampa Ice Lair sfx (less obviously the Elephant/Rancor/T-Rex/Cloverfield Monster/Tie Fighter/etc.)
3. Reinsert Audio bite of Lando's Mic (sfx)
4. Add FX of MF landing gear retracting when taking off
5. The wrist communicator between Lando and Lobot the same sfx as Luke and Han earlier and off sync

Music:

1. Reinstatement of Originally composed but Unused Moments
2. Duel of the Fates (sketchrob) *
3. Music Quality (rebuilding of soundtrack)
4. Syncing transition between 'MAIN TITLE' and 'PROBE DROID' is a few seconds off
5. Horrible Fanfare as Han enters Echo base
6. Abrupt cut of music as 3P0 speaks to Han about Luke missing
7. Abrupt Music cut off when Han is encased in Carbonite
8. Replacing Finale Music
9. Resync Sheild Generator destruction music

Hoth:

1. Tracks in Snow for Taun Taun (establishing shot)
2. Transparency of Fighters#
3. Probe Droid Reconnaissance background fix#
4. Taun Taun Eyes (Even just pupils)*
5. Taun Taun shadows#
6. Taun Taun animation (motion blurs)
7. Fix the boom mike reflection in Luke's goggles on the TaunTaun.
8. Wampas hands have more motion when attacking (Sevb32 )
9. Edge of Wampa arm puppet visible
10. Anthony Daniels chin visible during the “Deck Officer!” scene (Sevb32 )
11. Deck Doors closing twice
12. Remove Stick used to tip AT-AT over
13. Add Luke to the shot of the AT-AT falling over
14. Added AT-AT's and AT-ST's
15. More evacuation shots including paralyzed Star Destroyers or small skirmishes
16. Removal/trimming of Wampa Ice Lair shots showing Wampa
17. More Snow Troops
18. More Rebel Turrets and more firing. More Rebel Troops
19. More Expansive Battle
20. Interior of Walkers should be Red (or shots from outside changed to not show red)
21. 0:04:04 - Paint out crew-person’s hair at left side of screen.
22. 0:09:55 - Move saber deactivation sound to 4 seconds later, or digitally retract saber earlier.
23. 0:33:29 - Fix matte work on shield generator. #
24. 0:35:35 - Fix jump cut when snowtrooper is hit by blaster fire.
25. 0:36:23 - Stabilise R2's text on Luke's readout. (When flying from Hoth)
26. Frame missing from “This goes here, that goes there!” Watch troops on floor
27. If Wampa Ice Lair kept, add smoke/scorch to Wampa wound
28. More AT-AT's brought down. maybe Another goes down after Luke figures out how to take down (but is shot down)
29. Larger blockade
30. Luke too easily escapes Blockade
31. Red Bacta
32. Entrance to the Echo Base hangar (outside doors) could show more than just BLUE
33. The shot of the Probe Droid flying away from the crator (done in CG in the SE) looks bad. Perhaps some combination of the original with this redone one?
34. Recoloring one of the officers sitting next to Lea in the control room as Han enters hair as to fix the camera flip.
35. If you're keeping the SE Droid Crash /Exit with the new CG shot, be sure to fix the glitch in the arm near the end as it exits to the left. The Arm changes position
36. shadows to speeders/falcon as they fly over snow on Hoth (provided the angle of the sun would realistically make a shadow visiable)
37. Add more subtle display to Snowspeeders Instrument panels
38. Add At-At's landing on Hoth*
39. Add burn marks to At-At's where shot by lasers* (Can ice scorch??)
40. Add Camera Shake to Luke's Snowspeeder Crash
41. Color correction/Design changes between model/full size Snow Speeders (cooling grates on back and orange stripes)
42. Blue Rogue squadron helmet insignia colors
43. Bad mixture of Luke element and speeder being crushed element
44. Power/Shield generator destruction signified inside by lights flickering
45. Removal of Wires holding speeders
46. Update displays in Rebel Hoth Base ala Yavin Base in ANH:R (with some digital text/annotations, and flashing graphics)
47. After the Rebel Transport makes it past the disabled Star Destroyer, they should jump to hyperspace, in order to truly be "away"
48. Taun Taun claw broken off in close up of luke muttering "Degobah"
49. Right before Han gives C-3PO "the finger" as they're trying to get the Falcon out of Echo Base the entire computer console prop shakes because he's leaning on it 

Dagobah:

1. Emotions to Yoda (sketchrob)*
2. Yoda's skin color
3. You're Lucky you dont' taste very good” restored
4. More water dripping off X-Wing
5. Luke's vision (Audio or Visuual) example in film
6. Deleted Yoda landing in Episode III shows more creatures. Incorporate some?
7. Add Camera shake to Luke's X-Wing crash on Dagobah
8. Add Missing push button to Luke's Lightsaber (when Luke meets Yoda)
9. Add movement to fog for animal that Luke steps on
10. Fix jump cut to Vaders mask exploding revealing Luke
11. Remove Levitation Wires
12. Fix motion of Luke's X-Wing landing on Dagobah (when Yoda force levitates out of the swamp and onto dry land; motion when coming down and Luke pats it with hand seems too awkward/fakey)
13. Yoda's Decrepid Pod in distance **(which might need a cannon check as I could ahve sworn I read that the pod was launched back out into space so no sign would be found)**
14. Ground bowing under Luke as he walks past yoda saying "You want the impossible."

Cloud City:

1. Luke's Scream when he lets go of Ledge
2. scorch marks to Hans cloths after interrogation (sketchrob)
3. Finding a way to keep “Bring my Shuttle” and continuity and keep pace
4. Added shot of the readout in the Falcon showing the “Lando System”
5. 5)Sky traffic after “evacuate” order
6. Redundant backgrounds (Falcon/Slave I take offs, establishing shots, escape, windows)
7. Bespin should look claustrophobic (Mining Colony); NOT like Coruscant
8. Computerized Establishing Shots should be rethought, changed/removed. Stick out
9. Windows/not windows continuity during Lando's treason
10. 1:43:27 - Add windshield to Slave 1.
11. Luke turns off/hands off lightsaber to offstage hand, but tip can be seen (after vader falls from carbon freeze platform)
12. Door frame that locks out R2 from following Luke was above floor level (R2 wouldn't have easily followed)
13. Remove extra clothing used to hide Luke's “non-severed” hand
14. Interactive clouds (arrival, and when looping around to get Luke)
15. Reflections in 3P0 of Camera Crew – on conveyor to the incinerator
16. Reordering Han and Leia talking/ Chewie finding whats left of 3P0 (BrachioInGen edit)
17. Ceiling in Leia's quarters should be restored to Original (not fuzzily made to look like sky in SE)
18. As Vader and Luke fight on Gantry, where filmed area ends and matte painting begins TOO obvious
19. Star Destroyer entering atmosphere / taking over cloud city
20. “Who are you!” voice for when 3P0 stumbles into the Troopers restored
21. remove obvious squib on Stormtroopers chest before Leia shots him in cloud city (Just before Leia gets in the elevator).
22. when Chewie bangs 3PO's head on the Falcon during the escape (3PO says "Bend down, that hurts" etc.) a fixture on the Falcon wiggles, making it look a little fake. But then again the Falcon is a "piece'a junk."
23. Keep Spiral as Millennium Falcon goes into Hypserspace
24. Add 3PO coming down stairs of Bespin
25. Fix Boba Fett's Knee guards being upside down in Carbon Chamber shots
26. Add range finder lens to Boba Fett as he puts Han in cargo hold (it's missing)
27. Remove Luke's Head poping back into the shot when he jumps off Carbonite platform
28. Fix Jump-cut of steal gate doors closing behind Luke
29. Add scortch marks to wall during Vader/Luke Lightsaber battle
30. No visible damage to vader when luke hit shoulder
31. Sevb32 suggests the removal of "cut tape" used when Vader slices the poles off in the final battle. Or at least, the making of a cohesive color as some shots show it to be dark/others silver.
32. Improvising the sunrise-from-space effects when you see the Falcon leaving Bespin being chased by TIEs

Asteroid:

1. 0:39:49 - Replace shadows of Falcon and TIEs on asteroid to be accurate to the shape of the ships.
2. 0:52:04 - Erase the 'greeblies' falling off of 3PO when he interrupts Han and Leia.
3. 0:52:16 - When an asteroid hits the command tower on a Star Destroyer, the tower just magically dissolves belong the explosion element
4. Minocks- Something!
5. More Tie- Fighters
6. remove Han Mouthing Leia's "Hardly Enough to get me Excited"
7. Fix TIE Fighter explosion through Astroid crevice
8. Add damage to astroid from Bombers
9. Replace tool in Han's hand with Blaster when shooting Mynock
10. The course of the Falcon as it exits the slug should be more dynamic

11. Fix asteroid collisions/explosions in space (they collide, but shouldn't explode unless hit by a laser or there is some sort of hot gas inside them)

12. Fix explosions on asteroids on shot where Star Destroyer blasts them with its lasers

Executor (Empire General):

1. Emperors Hologram
2. The Bounty Hunter Scene could use subtle emotes/updated Bounty Hunters/Droids (sketchrob)
3. See the Fleet enter the Hoth System
4. 1:13:36 - Remove Neida's blink (after being choked) when Vader's cape swipes past his face.
5. 1:43:27 - Add windshield to Slave 1.
6. Open the Film with the Executor
7. Open the film with a skeletal DS2 visible OR
8. Expansion of the first shot of the Imperial Fleet (Inclusion of DS2?)
9. Add camera shake as Stardestroyers sheilds collide "Take evasive maneuvers"
10. Fix Imperial officers rank pins/cylinders
11. Replace Needa's shuttle with Lambda-Class T-4A Shuttle
12. Move Slave 1 ship farther back while following MF
13. Add display to Boba Fett's Range finder when it is down
14. When Stardestroyers Collide (sounds like an album) have explosions (maybe just glimpses in distance and/camera shakes
15. Shadowing Cruiser under the Executor (flipping with same shot used earlier for 'The First Catch of the Day')

Rebel Fleet:

1. Adding Ships: A-Wing, B-Wing, Mon Calamari Cruiser?
   
2. Hyperspace Jump*
3. Fix Luke getting his mechanical arm FX (bottom half looks too fake)

* - In Debate
# - Already Being Done