FreezingTNT2

Exactly. She only appears in one movie.

RogueLeader said:

I think we should end this conversation on Poppa’s thread unless we’re arguing for a specific change in his edit.

Fine…

I mean “rough” as in rough-looking to the point where it is obvious that Yoda is a puppet.

The Last Jedi takes place immediately after the events of The Force Awakens. Rian Johnson even said so himself. Rey only gives Luke the lightsaber after Finn asks Poe about Rey.

I understand Rian’s intentions behind many of his decisions; however, a lot of decisions range from being either inherently terrible or even had potential but were poorly-executed, like the heroes being chased down in space by the bad guys. I understand that Luke revealing that he considered killing Ben is supposed to give Rey something that drives her to Kylo, but it wasn’t really the best idea. Honestly, I would have given Rey a different motivation for leaving the island and/or Luke a different reason for his exile (some of which @StarkillerAG suggested, like being scared of Snoke’s power).

idir_hh said:

On one hand I feel like the original ending with Luke is the perfect payoff for this Isolated adventure yet on the other hand the dream Sequence is better in the context of the Last Jedi.
Would be great if you released two versions to satisfy both sentiments as I’m many would like to watch this back to back with all TLJ edits.

Nah, I just don’t want Rey and Luke standing there for twenty minutes doing nothing at the exact same time the Resistance successfully evacuates D’Qar and the opening dreadnought battle take place. And given that it appears that it took this quick for the Falcon to reach Ahch-To, and that The Last Jedi takes place immediately after the end of The Force Awakens, the time zones on D’Qar are also confusing, as in the end of The Force Awakens it is likely around sunrise/sunset, while in the “Oh no” scene in The Last Jedi it is likely around 10:00 AM-2:00 PM.

I’d have The Force Awakens end with the Millennium Falcon leaving D’Qar, and then cut immediately to the Falcon in hyperspace after Finn asks Poe about Rey in The Last Jedi rather than cut to Rey giving Luke the lightsaber, implying that the Falcon has been travelling for some time to go to Ahch-To.

sade1212 said:

He doesn’t exactly try to kill Ben. Kylo’s version of the flashback with Luke’s crazy face and swing at Ben is implied to be untrue, like Luke’s original telling of the story - both are exaggerating to make Rey more sympathetic to them - but Luke’s second telling seems to be the truth. He pulls his saber out in a moment of shameful fear and weakness (he is, after all, a Jedi, and pulling their saber out is usually a reasonable thing to do instinctively when they sense a threat) and then, while staring at it in shock, is forced to use it to block Ben’s incoming strike. It shows progression from ROTJ, in which Vader’s threat against Leia prompts Luke to angrily fight Vader across the room and chop his hand off. He’s gotten better at controlling that instinct to lash out, and catches himself much sooner, but the tragedy is that it still wasn’t good enough, and he’s forced to live with the shame of knowing that (until he learns to forgive himself in the movie).

Luke already conquered that darkness in Return of the Jedi. He saw his mistake, tossed his lightsaber and said that he’ll never turn to the dark side, knowing that it isn’t the way of the Jedi. Both scenes are the same: Luke is motivated to kill a family member because he fears that something bad is going to happen, but he stops himself from successfully killing said family member.

Luke was also less mature in age and the Force in Return of the Jedi, and he was in his 40s at the time he considered the cold-blooded murder of Ben Solo. Yoda even tells Luke in The Last Jedi that he has still been looking to the horizon, implying even more that Luke never actually matured as a person since The Empire Strikes Back.

He also would not have entered Ben’s room with a lightsaber at all, after growing as a Jedi for almost thirty years. Did he not learn this lesson when he decided to take his weapon with him in the Dagobah cave despite Yoda telling him not to do so? What did throwing away his lightsaber at the end of Return of the Jedi symbolize, other than that Luke has conquered the darkness? He had also learned about visions in The Empire Strikes Back. He should have moved on from that, and the sequel Disney trilogy should not be about Luke repeating the same mistakes.

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snooker said:

who cares about the meme fish man. why do people care about the meme fish man?

Because there was no point in adding him into the trilogy if he was going to be killed off in the second installment after barely getting to appear on-screen.

I have an idea: “remove” Admiral Ackbar entirely from The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, since he literally does nothing before getting killed off in The Last Jedi. You can just color-correct him, alter or redub his voice, and/or remove all mentions of his name.

The filmmakers could’ve given Luke a different motivation for staying on Ahch-To, while not having him be out-of-character, contradictory to his already-established character traits (like redeeming other family members; seriously, if Luke redeemed Anakin in Return of the Jedi, why wouldn’t he redeem Ben?) or undoing his arc from the original trilogy so they can re-do that arc all over again. I mean, why would he be looking for the first Jedi temple, as mentioned by Han in The Force Awakens?

SparkySywer said:

snooker said:

Why do people hate puppets so much

I think it’s because of the limitations of practical effects, and that people are willing to trade that in more and more for the limitlessness of CGI, even if that sacrifices the actors and sometimes the visual quality of the effect itself. The Yoda puppet has a lot of restrictions when it came to movement, something you wouldn’t get if you had a real life little alien walking around on set. This is what I think people mean when they say it’s obvious Yoda’s just a puppet. I mean, it’s not like that was a secret, so it has to be something deeper.

However, I think the fact that they added back in a lot of these limitations when doing the CGI for the prequels speaks to how important they are. Real life creatures may not have the same limitations as a puppet, but they don’t have the same freedom of movement that CGI has. The restrictions on the Mandalorian’s Baby Yoda puppet just make it all the more convincing that it’s a baby with limited motor function.

Don’t forget that the skin on the Yoda puppet looks really “rough” and not really organic-looking in comparison to real life creatures.

RogueLeader said:

I mean in ROTJ Luke goes on and on about he won’t kill Vader, but as soon as he threatens Leia he almost kills him. I’m sure Luke was shocked and never expected Ben to have those thoughts or plans. If he didn’t love Ben he wouldn’t have felt so ashamed himself for what he thought about doing.

Why wouldn’t it be personal if it was all of his students? This isn’t like Luke’s 10th year of teaching high school history or something, this is the first generation of new Jedi. All of his students, all of his responsibility. He probably felt like a parent to all of them.

EDIT: Sorry to bring this up! I know this is kind of conversation just goes in circles. I’m sure there’s a good way to edit the vision to make Luke’s response be more reflexive, but honestly I think adding the Palpatine laugh allows people who aren’t crazy about the scene to interpret that as Palpatine influencing his vision and coaxing his fear/anger, just like how he saw Vader coax Luke on the Death Star so long ago.

The difference is that Luke realized his mistake upon seeing Vader’s cut-off mechanical hand and then his own, before throwing the lightsaber and telling the Emperor that he will never turn to the dark side, knowing that it isn’t the way of the Jedi. He conquered that darkness, only to fall victim to it yet again?

@Petrovelly Do you plan on re-doing the next shot featuring an alternate angle of the Star Destroyer chasing down the Tantive IV above the atmosphere of Tatooine and the shot where the latter ship is hit?

I guess it would give Luke an additional motivation for considering the cold-blooded murder of Ben? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

@poppasketti Here is a suggestion: can you add Han Solo’s “Ben!” shout from The Force Awakens into the flashback where Luke is probing the mind of a sleeping Ben Solo?

snooker said:

Why do people hate puppets so much

Not all puppets suck. It’s just, sometimes, it is so obvious that some stuff are practical effects in some movies. People complain about fake-looking CGI, too, you know.

ChainsawAsh said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I was just asking if you were talking about something along the lines of what he did, or something more drastic.

I’m talking about something that looks, expresses emotions, and moves more realistically and organic, like how real organisms would do.

Um. Okay. But how are you suggesting this be accomplished? Using morph effects like Adywan? Deepfaking CGI Yoda on top of puppet Yoda? Replacing puppet Yoda with CGI altogether? Genetically engineering a real Yoda, filming it, and compositing it over the puppet?

Suggesting a drastic change without an idea of how it might be achieved isn’t terribly useful.

I was kinda thinking about using CGI, or at least improving the puppet via CGI, kind of like how CGI is sometimes used for The Child (also known as “Baby Yoda” by fans) in The Mandalorian (I think?) so it wouldn’t be obvious that it is a practical effect?

ChainsawAsh said:

I was just asking if you were talking about something along the lines of what he did, or something more drastic.

I’m talking about something that looks, expresses emotions, and moves more realistically and organic, like how real organisms would do.

ChainsawAsh said:

You mean like Adywan did in ESB:R and is doing in ROTJ:R?

I did not know he did that, sorry.

Do you think it could be possible to edit Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi so it would be much less obvious that he is a puppet (in terms of movements, expressions and skin texture)?

pleasehello said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

StarkillerAG said:

I agree that Luke was the only good character in the sequel trilogy, but I do feel like they took his character too far. I’m not saying Luke isn’t allowed to make mistakes, but I don’t think Luke from ROTJ would go to die on an island the instant something bad happened. He always seemed more hopeful than Obi-Wan or Yoda. I enjoyed Luke’s character arc, but I found it hard to accept that this is the same Luke from the OT, and I understand the complaints of those who felt they ruined his character.

They also undid Luke’s arc of overcoming darkness in Return of the Jedi. That moment he considered the cold-blooded murder of a sleeping Ben Solo undermines the scene in Return of the Jedi where he realizes his mistake after attacking Vader, tosses his lightsaber forward, and promises he will never turn to the dark side, knowing that it isn’t the way of the Jedi, which showed that he has matured to better face and overcome darkness.

He redeemed his father and conquered the darkness, only to fall victim to it yet again?

You could easily look at his temptation as an ongoing struggle. It makes his character more human and hence more interesting in TLJ. Plus he didn’t do it, so I still don’t know why certain people get all bent out of shape about this. He’s not space-Jesus.

That still undid his character development. When Luke attacked Vader and cut off his mechanical hand after the latter threatened to turn Leia to the dark side in Return of the Jedi, he looked at said hand and looked at his own mechanical hand, before he realizes his mistake, tosses his lightsaber, and tells the Emperor that he will never turn to the dark side. It showed that he has fully matured as a person to better face and overcome the dark side.

The entire point of Return of the Jedi was to show that our heroes have matured since A New Hope.

As I said, he redeemed his father and conquered the darkness, only to fall victim to it yet again? I mean, what was the point of him conquering the darkness in Return of the Jedi if he is going to fall victim to it yet again?

StarkillerAG said:

I agree that Luke was the only good character in the sequel trilogy, but I do feel like they took his character too far. I’m not saying Luke isn’t allowed to make mistakes, but I don’t think Luke from ROTJ would go to die on an island the instant something bad happened. He always seemed more hopeful than Obi-Wan or Yoda. I enjoyed Luke’s character arc, but I found it hard to accept that this is the same Luke from the OT, and I understand the complaints of those who felt they ruined his character.

They also undid Luke’s arc of overcoming darkness in Return of the Jedi. That moment he considered the cold-blooded murder of a sleeping Ben Solo undermines the scene in Return of the Jedi where he realizes his mistake after attacking Vader, tosses his lightsaber forward, and promises he will never turn to the dark side, knowing that it isn’t the way of the Jedi, which showed that he has matured to better face and overcome darkness.

He redeemed his father and conquered the darkness, only to fall victim to it yet again?

Most fan edits always ignore external source materials. Also, casual moviegoers shouldn’t have to read external source materials or watch obscure TV shows in order to understand a movie on its own, that’s why the Darth Maul scene in Solo: A Star Wars Story was confusing for those who never watched The Clone Wars.

Put it in the part in the opening space battle where some guy’s X-Wing is hit. It’s after the part where the bomber ships arrive.

idir_hh said:

There are a good few edits that do that.

Can you link the pages for these edits?