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FreezingTNT2

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19-Jun-2019
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28-Jan-2020
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Post
#1322420
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

pleasehello said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

That line creates an inconsistency in Rose’s character: earlier she was fighting what she hated (animal cruelty) by freeing the Fathiers at Canto Bight, and yet she stops Finn’s sacrifice and tells him that Saving What We Love™ is more important than Fighting What We Hate™, resulting in the First Order’s giant laser cannon blowing up the metal door.

Uh, wasn’t she explicitly saving what she loved by freeing the fathiers?

She still prevents Finn from sacrificing himself and indirectly allows the First Order to destroy the door. Yeah, I know that Finn’s speeder probably wouldn’t have completely destroyed the cannon, but it could’ve at least damaged some of it.

Post
#1322417
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

That line creates an inconsistency in Rose’s character: earlier she was fighting what she hated (animal cruelty) by freeing the Fathiers at Canto Bight, and yet she stops Finn’s sacrifice and tells him that Saving What We Love™ is more important than Fighting What We Hate™, resulting in the First Order’s giant laser cannon blowing up the metal door.

Post
#1322203
Topic
Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

Another disappointing aspect of the sequel trilogy: I thought the idea of having the heroes be chased down by the bad guys in space in The Last Jedi had potential and sounded good on paper, but it had poor execution because it is… a slow-speed space chase that involves fuel. A better space chase idea would be to have the heroes jump into hyperspace, and every time they do so the bad guys jump into hyperspace too so they could keep on following them.

Post
#1321587
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (SPOILERS)
Time

StarkillerAG said:

The main problem with that idea is that Kylo isn’t wearing his mask, and he doesn’t have his facial bandages either. It would be too much of an obvious continuity error, and it would be weird for Kylo to never mention the resurrected Palpatine for the rest of the movie.

Can’t we just edit Kylo’s face to have the facial bandages?

Post
#1321585
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (SPOILERS)
Time

regularjoe said:

How about moving the opening of TROS to the opening of TLJ?
This changes Kylo Ren’s motivation throughout the movie and, adding the failed Snoke clones, would serve as an enhancer to why he wipes out Snoke when he has a chance with Rey and moves to consolidate his power base.

I had the exact same idea. Remove the first throne scene with Snoke and Kylo (we can have the “assault on Mustafar to get the wayfinder” scene as part of Kylo’s training mentioned in The Force Awakens), remove the shot of the Star Destroyers rising from the ground, remove Sidious telling Kylo to kill Rey, remove the awkward “camera zooming into D’Qar” shot (since it will be jarring if we cut from the scene with Sidious and Kylo to said zoom-in shot), and cut immediately from Sidious telling Kylo that “Rey is not who he expects” to the opening “Oh no” scene on D’Qar.

Post
#1321561
Topic
Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

That’s a fair point, Dom! And I do think I would’ve preferred that image of Hux stabbing himself with a lightsaber as the First Order falls apart in the background. Maybe suicide would be too dark for a Star Wars movie, but I think it would’ve been a cool way for him to go out. I don’t think Hux had to have been a Force-wannabe to a lightsaber on display in his office or something.

I had similar thoughts about the Knights of Ren. You could have one that is the most prominent Knight, could’ve been Matt Smith, and he sort of becomes the de facto leader once they depose Kylo or Kylo turns back to the light. Not only could you give him the Palpatine make-up, but you could layer his voice with Ian McDiarmid’s. It could sort of sound like Palpatine’s voice when he baptizes Vader in Revenge of the Sith.

It is a shame that Trevorrow couldn’t work around Carrie’s passing. I liked the idea of the First Order pretty much blocking all communication, and using some device on Coruscant to send a message to the galaxy. Obviously they couldn’t do that message after Carrie passed, but I think it would’ve been a good opportunity for Poe to step up as leader. Imagine Leia sending a message to the galaxy was the plan, then she dies and the Resistance feels hopeless, but after some kind of optimistic conversation Poe decides to do what Leia would have done and send the message in her place. I think that would have been a fitting way to continue her legacy.

The entire climax could have taken place on Coruscant, with Poe leading a space battle above the planet, Finn leading the uprising on the surface, and Rey, Ben and the Knights of Ren facing off underneath the Jedi Temple.

And yet we have Anakin Skywalker literally being set on fire on-screen.

Post
#1321373
Topic
Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

liamnotneeson said:

The more I sit on it, the more I really hate Rey Palpatine. I really hate it- I wouldn’t even use hate to describe how I feel about what Johnson did to Luke in TLJ but I hate Rey Palpatine. The force dyad properly elaborated on would have been fully sufficient to explain Rey’s OP-ness, in my opinion. Rey being from nowhere was in retrospect completely in line with the Star Wars ethos and if episode XI had kept with it, and I think it would have allowed that fact to sit well with audiences.

Rey Palpatine never really sat right with me, even the first time I watched it. Once fan edits start coming out of TROS, whatever edit I chose will need to have Rey Palpatine scrapped, no exceptions, but that’s just my taste and my preference. Rey Palpatine will never be canon to me.

This is coming from someone who overall enjoyed the sequels, so don’t accuse me of being a Disney hater or whatever. I understand why JJ did it, and I strongly disagree

I hate the concept of Darth Sidious having progeny in general, it completely goes against his nature.

Post
#1321070
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

yotsuya said:

Poe acted reckless when he destroyed the Dreadnaught. That it later turned out to be the right thing to do is immaterial. They had no way of knowing that they would be tracked through lightspeed. It was the wrong thing to do from a leadership perspective and that is what Poe’s journey in TLJ is all about. You have to follow the plot in the moment and not let yourself have 20/20 hindsight interfere in what came before. You can’t do that in life and you can’t do that in fiction.

Keep in mind that given that the bomber ships were slow and if Poe had listened to Leia’s orders, the bomber ships would’ve been shot down by the dreadnought while trying to head back to the Raddus. I guess the filmmakers should’ve included Y-Wings instead.

Post
#1321058
Topic
Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

Since we’re talking about disappointing aspects of the sequel trilogy, I’d say one of the most disappointing aspects of the trilogy is having The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi take place so close to each other.

They could’ve had The Last Jedi take place two or three years after The Force Awakens, with Rey training under Luke since after The Force Awakens. The Resistance subplot can start off the same (the whole evacuation and space chase stuff), Kylo has continued his training that was mentioned by Snoke in the last film, Rey and Kylo have their interactions, etc. Luke would refuse to leave because he’s worried that he would have to confront Snoke and Kylo, two powerful dark side Force-users, and that he would die, but he is convinced by Anakin/Obi-Wan/Yoda to leave the island and confront them.

These are just random ideas I’m throwing out there.

Post
#1321036
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Broom Kid said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Wish they made it clear within the film itself that he didn’t really want the Jedi to end.

They did. He literally says it to Kylo at the close of their duel.

He’s angry and upset and he’s got an audience to vent to in Rey, so he’s trying to convince himself as much as he is trying to convince her that the last few years of his solitary life on this rock mean more than they actually do. His behaviors are saying just as much as any line of dialog would (and even then, he gets an actual line of dialog that makes it explicit later in the movie)

But it’s not an accident we see him carefully folding his Jedi robes, or that he’s still got a shrine with the Sacred Jedi Texts up and standing, or that he can’t make himself destroy the tree, and that he’s very upset at the possibility of Yoda having burned those books. All of those things are clear evidence that he’s not really dedicated to letting the Jedi end. He’s talking a good game but he hasn’t convinced himself, and every time push comes to shove he chooses to PROTECT the Jedi way, not destroy it. The very fact he chooses to train her at all speaks to the idea that he’s not convinced that it’s really “time for the Jedi to end.”

I mean before the duel, where he fully realizes that the Jedi shouldn’t come to an end after Yoda shows up and talks to him.

Post
#1321032
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Broom Kid said:

He also kept his Jedi robes. And when he went to go burn the tree - he couldn’t burn it. Yoda had to do it for him. Luke didn’t really want the Jedi to end, (“I will not be the last Jedi” are some of the last words he ever speaks") and he couldn’t make himself do it. That he kept Leia’s lightsaber as a memento isn’t a “plot hole” because it doesn’t undo or mess up anything from a plotting perspective, much less a thematic or character one. It’s absolutely in keeping with the Luke from The Last Jedi. Luke was being dishonest to both himself and Rey about why he was really on that island, and it wasn’t some big noble aspiration. He was depressed and scared and ashamed.

Wish they made it clear within the film itself that he didn’t really want the Jedi to end.

Post
#1320992
Topic
Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

Shopping Maul said:

I’ve said this already but I would’ve had Mon Mothma be the new Sidious - pissed off because her unholy alliance with Palpatine in ROTJ (she killed the Bothan spies herself and passed on the false Death Star information in exchange for a seat at Palpatine’s side) was thwarted by the rebels. She would have been reconstituting the Empire in secret whilst corrupting Ben Solo with lies about his folks and glorious tales of his grandfather Anakin Vader.

And I would’ve had the New Republic using Star Destroyers and Tie fighters while the FO flies X-Wings and Y-Wings. Just to mess with the audience’s heads…

So… you’d have Mon Mothma be Force-sensitive? ',:I

Post
#1320791
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Mocata said:

StarkillerAG said:

SparkySywer said:

Finn wouldn’t have saved his friends by running into the cannon, wasn’t that the whole point?

I’m not sure. It wasn’t made clear in the movie, which was probably not a good idea.

The weapons clearly melted from the beam but it’s unclear of the crash damage would have worked.

Don’t forget that Poe tells Finn that the cannon is charged and that it’s a suicide run.