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FreezingTNT2

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19-Jun-2019
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24-Jan-2020
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Post
#1321587
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (SPOILERS)
Time

StarkillerAG said:

The main problem with that idea is that Kylo isn’t wearing his mask, and he doesn’t have his facial bandages either. It would be too much of an obvious continuity error, and it would be weird for Kylo to never mention the resurrected Palpatine for the rest of the movie.

Can’t we just edit Kylo’s face to have the facial bandages?

Post
#1321585
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (SPOILERS)
Time

regularjoe said:

How about moving the opening of TROS to the opening of TLJ?
This changes Kylo Ren’s motivation throughout the movie and, adding the failed Snoke clones, would serve as an enhancer to why he wipes out Snoke when he has a chance with Rey and moves to consolidate his power base.

I had the exact same idea. Remove the first throne scene with Snoke and Kylo (we can have the “assault on Mustafar to get the wayfinder” scene as part of Kylo’s training mentioned in The Force Awakens), remove the shot of the Star Destroyers rising from the ground, remove Sidious telling Kylo to kill Rey, remove the awkward “camera zooming into D’Qar” shot (since it will be jarring if we cut from the scene with Sidious and Kylo to said zoom-in shot), and cut immediately from Sidious telling Kylo that “Rey is not who he expects” to the opening “Oh no” scene on D’Qar.

Post
#1321561
Topic
Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

That’s a fair point, Dom! And I do think I would’ve preferred that image of Hux stabbing himself with a lightsaber as the First Order falls apart in the background. Maybe suicide would be too dark for a Star Wars movie, but I think it would’ve been a cool way for him to go out. I don’t think Hux had to have been a Force-wannabe to a lightsaber on display in his office or something.

I had similar thoughts about the Knights of Ren. You could have one that is the most prominent Knight, could’ve been Matt Smith, and he sort of becomes the de facto leader once they depose Kylo or Kylo turns back to the light. Not only could you give him the Palpatine make-up, but you could layer his voice with Ian McDiarmid’s. It could sort of sound like Palpatine’s voice when he baptizes Vader in Revenge of the Sith.

It is a shame that Trevorrow couldn’t work around Carrie’s passing. I liked the idea of the First Order pretty much blocking all communication, and using some device on Coruscant to send a message to the galaxy. Obviously they couldn’t do that message after Carrie passed, but I think it would’ve been a good opportunity for Poe to step up as leader. Imagine Leia sending a message to the galaxy was the plan, then she dies and the Resistance feels hopeless, but after some kind of optimistic conversation Poe decides to do what Leia would have done and send the message in her place. I think that would have been a fitting way to continue her legacy.

The entire climax could have taken place on Coruscant, with Poe leading a space battle above the planet, Finn leading the uprising on the surface, and Rey, Ben and the Knights of Ren facing off underneath the Jedi Temple.

And yet we have Anakin Skywalker literally being set on fire on-screen.

Post
#1321373
Topic
Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

liamnotneeson said:

The more I sit on it, the more I really hate Rey Palpatine. I really hate it- I wouldn’t even use hate to describe how I feel about what Johnson did to Luke in TLJ but I hate Rey Palpatine. The force dyad properly elaborated on would have been fully sufficient to explain Rey’s OP-ness, in my opinion. Rey being from nowhere was in retrospect completely in line with the Star Wars ethos and if episode XI had kept with it, and I think it would have allowed that fact to sit well with audiences.

Rey Palpatine never really sat right with me, even the first time I watched it. Once fan edits start coming out of TROS, whatever edit I chose will need to have Rey Palpatine scrapped, no exceptions, but that’s just my taste and my preference. Rey Palpatine will never be canon to me.

This is coming from someone who overall enjoyed the sequels, so don’t accuse me of being a Disney hater or whatever. I understand why JJ did it, and I strongly disagree

I hate the concept of Darth Sidious having progeny in general, it completely goes against his nature.

Post
#1321070
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

yotsuya said:

Poe acted reckless when he destroyed the Dreadnaught. That it later turned out to be the right thing to do is immaterial. They had no way of knowing that they would be tracked through lightspeed. It was the wrong thing to do from a leadership perspective and that is what Poe’s journey in TLJ is all about. You have to follow the plot in the moment and not let yourself have 20/20 hindsight interfere in what came before. You can’t do that in life and you can’t do that in fiction.

Keep in mind that given that the bomber ships were slow and if Poe had listened to Leia’s orders, the bomber ships would’ve been shot down by the dreadnought while trying to head back to the Raddus. I guess the filmmakers should’ve included Y-Wings instead.

Post
#1321058
Topic
Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

Since we’re talking about disappointing aspects of the sequel trilogy, I’d say one of the most disappointing aspects of the trilogy is having The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi take place so close to each other.

They could’ve had The Last Jedi take place two or three years after The Force Awakens, with Rey training under Luke since after The Force Awakens. The Resistance subplot can start off the same (the whole evacuation and space chase stuff), Kylo has continued his training that was mentioned by Snoke in the last film, Rey and Kylo have their interactions, etc. Luke would refuse to leave because he’s worried that he would have to confront Snoke and Kylo, two powerful dark side Force-users, and that he would die, but he is convinced by Anakin/Obi-Wan/Yoda to leave the island and confront them.

These are just random ideas I’m throwing out there.

Post
#1321036
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Broom Kid said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Wish they made it clear within the film itself that he didn’t really want the Jedi to end.

They did. He literally says it to Kylo at the close of their duel.

He’s angry and upset and he’s got an audience to vent to in Rey, so he’s trying to convince himself as much as he is trying to convince her that the last few years of his solitary life on this rock mean more than they actually do. His behaviors are saying just as much as any line of dialog would (and even then, he gets an actual line of dialog that makes it explicit later in the movie)

But it’s not an accident we see him carefully folding his Jedi robes, or that he’s still got a shrine with the Sacred Jedi Texts up and standing, or that he can’t make himself destroy the tree, and that he’s very upset at the possibility of Yoda having burned those books. All of those things are clear evidence that he’s not really dedicated to letting the Jedi end. He’s talking a good game but he hasn’t convinced himself, and every time push comes to shove he chooses to PROTECT the Jedi way, not destroy it. The very fact he chooses to train her at all speaks to the idea that he’s not convinced that it’s really “time for the Jedi to end.”

I mean before the duel, where he fully realizes that the Jedi shouldn’t come to an end after Yoda shows up and talks to him.

Post
#1321032
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Broom Kid said:

He also kept his Jedi robes. And when he went to go burn the tree - he couldn’t burn it. Yoda had to do it for him. Luke didn’t really want the Jedi to end, (“I will not be the last Jedi” are some of the last words he ever speaks") and he couldn’t make himself do it. That he kept Leia’s lightsaber as a memento isn’t a “plot hole” because it doesn’t undo or mess up anything from a plotting perspective, much less a thematic or character one. It’s absolutely in keeping with the Luke from The Last Jedi. Luke was being dishonest to both himself and Rey about why he was really on that island, and it wasn’t some big noble aspiration. He was depressed and scared and ashamed.

Wish they made it clear within the film itself that he didn’t really want the Jedi to end.

Post
#1320992
Topic
Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

Shopping Maul said:

I’ve said this already but I would’ve had Mon Mothma be the new Sidious - pissed off because her unholy alliance with Palpatine in ROTJ (she killed the Bothan spies herself and passed on the false Death Star information in exchange for a seat at Palpatine’s side) was thwarted by the rebels. She would have been reconstituting the Empire in secret whilst corrupting Ben Solo with lies about his folks and glorious tales of his grandfather Anakin Vader.

And I would’ve had the New Republic using Star Destroyers and Tie fighters while the FO flies X-Wings and Y-Wings. Just to mess with the audience’s heads…

So… you’d have Mon Mothma be Force-sensitive? ',:I

Post
#1320791
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Mocata said:

StarkillerAG said:

SparkySywer said:

Finn wouldn’t have saved his friends by running into the cannon, wasn’t that the whole point?

I’m not sure. It wasn’t made clear in the movie, which was probably not a good idea.

The weapons clearly melted from the beam but it’s unclear of the crash damage would have worked.

Don’t forget that Poe tells Finn that the cannon is charged and that it’s a suicide run.

Post
#1320760
Topic
The Usual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread - * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

OutboundFlight said:

I don’t take issue with TROS’s force healing. It understands the Jedi from the OT far more than the PT. They are warriors, yes, but they fight with the intent of peace. Luke only became a true Jedi on the Death Star: Jabba’s Sail Barge was a dark side action.

Force healing is easy to comprehend. An injured character can be healed without the death of the healer, although it drains a lot of their energy, and can’t be done in the middle of a battleground. For fatal wounds, the healer must sacrifice themself.

In TROS, Leia transfers her life-force into Ben, which allows Rey to heal a fatal wound in Ben without her dying. It is Leia who dies in this scene. But on Exogel, there isn’t anyone to help, so Ben makes the ultimate sacrifice to Rey. It’s very poetic and definitely an act of the light side, eliminating wounds and saving the lives of others (NOT yourself).

If we must prove why this works within the larger context of Star Wars…
–Obi-Wan was a young knight who promised his master to train Anakin. He would not sacrifice himself for his master, nor would Qui-Gon have wanted him to.
–Yoda and Obi-Wan were the sole survivors of Order 66, but also some of the strongest Jedi and the most aware of the situation. It would not do to sacrifice themselves and leave a new Jedi left confused and wondering what’s up, only to be shot down.
–Luke was Anakin’s son, so Anakin would not have allowed him to sacrifice himself. Luke had much more to live for.

Force healing still undermines the concept of death and kills any tension in future Star Wars movies.

Post
#1319710
Topic
The Usual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread - * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

EddieDean said:

I was thinking about radical reordering to the trilogy, and toying with the idea of having Palpatine’s return be a ‘sidequest’ of Snoke’s as part of Kylo’s training. Sort of ‘I’ve detected a rival Sith, go deal with them for me’. That way you could keep some of Palpatine without it being an unsatisfying attempt to put a capper on the Skywalker saga, and keep it framed as part of this new, different story. Does anyone have any thoughts about that?

That got me on to thinking about any other kind of radical restructures we might have available to us. And fundamentally, any such option needs to first ask the question: What arcs are sufficient to build a trilogy (or duology or whatever) around? And the problem with the sequel trilogy is, nearly nobody has a satisfying arc. To my mind you have:

REY:
A nobody gets dragged into a destiny, shows force proficiency, becomes Luke Skywalker’s hope for the future of the Jedi, develops a relationship with the conflicted Kylo Ren (who exploits her nothingness to gain her power), grows in power, tracks down and kills a half-reborn Palpatine (who she learns she was related to all along), nearly dies but is saved by Kylo, declares herself Skywalker. It’s our second-strongest arc but Palpatine comes out of nowhere and other than the revelation that she’s related to him, her defeat of him doesn’t contribute to her growth.

KYLO REN:
The legacy of Vader wishes to emulate him, gains power under Snoke, is conflicted by his killing of his father, develops a relationship with the suprisingly powerful Rey, kills Snoke to gain more power, is conflicted by his meeting fails to convince Rey to join him for evil, is conflicted by his relationship with Luke Skywalker, finds and submits to Palpatine, then turns to the light, gets nearly killed by Palpatine, then dies to kill an injured Rey.
It’s our strongest arc but Palpatine comes out of nowhere, and isn’t relevant to his character arc.

Taking the above two alone, the strongest story between them is that they meet each other, develop this awkward relationship, turn on Snoke (for different reasons), attempt to convince each other of their philosophies, then Kylo turns to the light, and they defeat Palpatine. But again, that Palpatine ending just isn’t satisfying. I feel like the Palpatine and Snoke kills should be punctual steps on their journey together, but which utimately end with them in conflict with one another. I’m trying to think of moments which could be used as the punctual final point of their story. There’s the moment when they fight and Rey appears to kill Kylo (before healing him). But that’s about where I can’t take the thought any further.

That’s the same idea that I’ve had: move the opening scene in The Rise of Skywalker to the very beginning of The Last Jedi, and have the whole “getting the wayfinder and finding Darth Sidious” thing be a part of Kylo’s training. We don’t get the bit where Sidious tells Kylo to kill Rey (since that is contradicted by him later revealing that he wants her alive) or the shot of the Star Destroyers rising from the ground.

After Sidious tells Kylo that “Rey is not who you expect”, we immediately cut to the opening Resistance evacuation scene where Billie Lourd says “Oh no” as a First Order fleet arrives above the atmosphere of D’Qar (no awkward shot of the camera zooming into the planet, since it’s jarring if we cut from the Kylo and Sidious scene to the shot of the camera zooming into the planet). Also remove the entire first throne room scene with Snoke and Kylo, since it would be confusing if we have Kylo meet Sidious before returning to get criticized and mocked by Snoke since he is continuing his training.

Post
#1319420
Topic
The Usual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread - * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

Anakin Starkiller said:

As someone who’s removing Leia being Luke’s sister from the saga, I think it might make sense to replace her death through Force projection with a death via the bridge of the Raddus exploding. It would eliminate both instances of her using the Force in one fell swoop. Then again, maybe there’s nothing wrong with her being Force sensitive. I definitely don’t want her being a Jedi, though, so that flashback has to go.

The Resistance wasted resources and sacrificed lives just to have Luke show up and help distract the First Order while they escape and nobody, not even Poe Dameron or Billie Lourd, ever even thought about using Leia as a Force-sensitive person to, say, crumble the Supremacy into a tinfoil ball since Force-sensitive people like the kid who Force-pulled that broom automatically know how to use Force-powers like telekinesis, and you think there’s nothing wrong with Leia being Force-sensitive?

Post
#1319328
Topic
The Usual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread - * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

Anakin Starkiller said:

Here’s an idea: Pasaana is Geonosis. It would tie the saga together more.

And for the love of the Force, give some of the aliens different skin tones then the same tone of fleshy orange they all seem to have some variant of. Give me purples, yellows, and greens!

Nah, that would make the galaxy feel smaller.

Post
#1319180
Topic
THE RISE OF SKYWALKER (Epic Cut) - <strong>SPOILERS</strong>
Time

krausfadr said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Same with Billie Lourd.

Billie should stay because to me she’s royalty (and provides continuity). Klaud isn’t so funny since he’s really a repackaged Porg. I was fine with the Porg’s in poppasketti’s version of TLJ (the best version of TLJ imo). But Klaud is too distracting much like the monkey elf who welds things…

I was just pointing out a counter argument. But yeah, Billie Lourd’s character can stay.¯_(ツ)_/¯