I’m so honoured that you’re making a version that concludes TCW:Refocused, Del! ❤️
I know it’s a little late in the game but If I had one thing I wish I’d address to suggest that always bugs me it’s Rey’s “Ugh” at the start and I find it so cringe. To me it something a petty girl in High School would do. Weird nit pic I know but I just feel something like that doesn’t belong in SW. I feel a cut to when she say’s “They’re not with me.” and then the shot where she just force roll fall after would work pretty good. I just wanted to see what other would think.
This bugs me too, but I think the shot continually tracks inwards IIRC. If it’s two separate shots, it would be simple to edit out yourself.
It does continually track. The only thing you could feasibly do with this from what I can tell is edit out the soundbite though it makes Rey’s expression look kind of off.
I wonder if you could make it a more inquisitive ‘huh?’
Ooh yeah that sells it really well. In movie language, all of the reactions in that scene say “she’s very ill”.
I knew having a posh English voice would come in handy one day! I’ll do some more takes.
That’s neat. My voice might suit that guy’s face, I’ll send you a couple of sample clips by PM.
A lot of interesting thoughts here.
If the Jedi begin on their mission to broker peace between Gungans and Naboo, then Jar Jar could simply be their go-between/guide/facilitator. (He could even be their Representative, which has supporting voice lines.) You also don’t necessarily need to have them leave in the bongo - after the Otoh Gunga scenes you could potentially cut to the second half of the scene where they originally meet Jar Jar, where the Jedi and Jar Jar talk more (ending with, for example, my ‘we must hurry’, eventually cutting back to them appearing in Theed having travelled there offscreen.)
Another option to preserve Otoh Gunga, though more radical and mutually exclusive from the above ideas, would be to have the Jedi visit the city upon their RETURN to Coruscant, failing to convince Boss Nass to help them but at least convincing him to meet the Queen, transitioning then into the Queen-meets-Boss-Nass scenes where she wins him over.
I just watched over the original TPM opening and goddamn it just plods and plods. It saps all of your energy away. The Neimoidian ship stuff is fairly poor, but the Otoh Gunga content in particular just stops the story in its tracks.
I’m certain that Otoh Gunga has to go. And that’s feasibly fixable via Jar Jar dialogue.
What’s lost in doing that though, is the context about the Gungans and Naboo land-dwellers not getting along, so you lose some of the context that’s paid off later when Boss Nass reappears and is won over by Padmé.
I was thinking about this a little more, and wondering what could be done. Potentially, we could allude to it a little plus explain the Jedi starting in the swamp if they’re on the planet (and near the swamps) to broker peace between the Gungans and Naboo. This would demonstrate their role as diplomats, and be a plotline that’s paid off later.
Challenge there would be that you could only carry that information in the crawl.
Which then got me thinking - what if the entire movie is framed as the story of Naboo? In many ways it is - it begins and ends there, and the Tattooine and Coruscant sections are about Padmé trying (albeit failing) to get help back to the planet.
If the entire story was centered on Naboo, that’d be quite easy to grasp - the jeopardy is to the citizens, and our main characters are ultimately working towards saving it from the Trade Federation (and shadowy benefactor). The audience would need less politics up front, but through the lens of Naboo the plot would slowly (in this movie and beyond) expand to a more galactic scope - which I think is fitting for the movie which comes chronologically first.
Perhaps then the crawl could be almost entirely Naboo focused, something like:
The planet Naboo is in danger.
The Jedi Order, mystical wielders
of THE FORCE and defenders of the
Galactic Republic, have foreseen
a crisis.
As tensions mount, Jedi Knight
Qui-Gon Jinn and his apprentice
have been dispatched to the
planet’s swamps in an attempt
to broker peace between the
people of Naboo and the native
Gungans.
As Naboo’s Queen Amidala, champion
of the people, waits, the greedy
TRADE FEDERATION have massed a
deadly fleet around the remote
world, the Republic’s Supreme
Chancellor has sent a small team
of ambassadors to defuse the
situation…
❤️ ❤️ ❤️
That’s so wonderful to hear (especially since that episode was one of the toughest to make), thank you so much for your kind words! I hope you keep enjoying it as you go, please keep any feedback coming (good and bad!)
Oh, that is a good one. It’s at the easier end of VFX too to just show a couple of escape pods launch.
Just got a peek. My first thoughts are that the first few scenes are really dull and boring. This is one of the biggest problems I have with the political stuff for Episode I, in general, and the absence of action amplified that problem.
However, the intro started to pick up once Jar Jar arrived (Never thought I’d say that in a sentence so, congratulations), and the rest of the intro is a general improvement over the last one. I’m not sure how I feel about Amidala thanking R2 and Jar Jar’s first conversation with Padme, but that might be bias on my part. Otherwise, this one is on the right track.
I think the big challenge is gonna be how to handle the political aspects without dulling the senses. We do need to have something that gives us an understanding of the conflict, so it’s not like we can just remove it all. But at the same time, I think getting down to the planet sooner would be ideal. I’m not sure how to acheive that balance, so I’m curious to hear what others might say before I attempt anything.
Useful feedback, thanks! Ultimately, the intro of this movie being boring is one of its biggest issues, and I think likely one of the big turn-offs for 1999 moviegoers after so long anticpiating the excitement of a new Star Wars. That’s what I think all of these attempts at the intro are fundamentally trying to fix.
I see where you’re coming from regarding the opening politics. I had hoped/felt like at least opening with immediate destruction of the ambassador’s ship might give us enough high energy to carry us through the following couple of scenes - at least here they feature tension rising as the invasion swiftly materialises. I’d be interested to know from others here what combination of scenes from the first act would make the most compelling opening to the movie. If you start on armies landing that’s pretty fun, but then you’d have to have the Jedi meeting Jar Jar before almost anything else, which puts a lot of expositional pressure on their meeting, plus the need to have it conclude with a sense of momentum.
I’ve got to agree with vranir’s Dooku point. I think the most ideal edit of TPM would have Dooku instructing the Separatists. Though I don’t know how this could be feasible.
It’d be interesting for sure, and probably stronger for it, but you’re wrestling against far more challenging practical concerns with that particular idea. That said, Christopher Lee has starred in over twelve billion films, so decent AI voice and face models are more reasonable than for some other actors in the series. Best of luck to anyone who fancies picking that idea off the shelf!
I like it, especially the thread about the ambassadors and some of the new JarJar lines, but the following still stand out to me as (unavoidable?) issues:
- The number of quick scenes make it feel a bit choppy.
I’ve not shortened any scenes here, at least by much, so that’s an interesting one. I wonder what gives it that feeling?
- How did the Jedi get to the planet? Why are they in the woods?
For reasons! I don’t know, to be honest, because this was more about seeing whether or not the scenes flowed in this order without the Jedi on the Neimoidian ship. (Logic should be present, but it’s secondary to the energy and interest flow of the movie itself, or at least wasn’t the first goal of this test sequence.) I’m open to suggestions for how to justify it. I don’t think we need to explain how they got there necessarily - there’s no explicit reason why they shouldn’t be, and we don’t need to explain everything. But why they’re in the woods? I don’t know. I dropped the word “secretly” into the crawl to imply they’re heading in secretly for whatever reason (maybe they fear that there’re already Trade Federation agents in the city?) You could pretty much stick anything in the crawl so long as it’s not too convoluted, supplemented with Jar Jar lines if possible.
This leads a little into how to handle the Jar Jar angle. I’ve got a lot of alternate voice lines to play with, but it’d be nice to think about our options. With this introduction, the invasion is NOT already in play, nor is Padmé already captured. Plus, they definitely appear to stumble upon Jar Jar by chance, and their dialogue is less flexible than his so it probably needs to remain a chance meeting. I’ve always liked the idea of changing Jar Jar into already being a representative (as he becomes by his next appearance), but perhaps that’s one coincidence too far, and the better motivation for him sticking around is just ‘Jar Jar likes Queen Amidala’.
In that case, having Jar Jar audibly identify the Jedi early is good, and then having him say “I’m going to help the Queen” before Qui-Gon replies “That won’t be necessary” would fit nicely for both characters, with them accepting him temporarily when he explains he can guide them into the city later (“City? Can you take us there?”) That, plus Jar Jar’s help in Naboo in finding the Queen, is probably the best path to explain why he sticks around that isn’t a radical change.
- Do we have to tip our hand w Sideous so early? I’d ideally like to see Dooku instructing them, setting up the overall Separatist threat, then reveal that he’s secretly taking orders from elsewhere in Ep2.
In terms of adding Dooku, we’re walking into more radical territory here. If someone had workable Dooku footage that’d certainly be worth consideration, though it’s certainly beyond my abilities.
We don’t need Sidious necessarily, though, and you could trim him out easily enough, though you would lose some context in so doing. Personally though, I like Sidious early, because the Neimoidians aren’t particularly threatening on their own, and it’s interesting to imply that there’re darker politics at play during this crumbling Republic. As much as I’ve presented a fairly significant change with this intro edit, I think a fairly conservative approach is quite sensible. The more I watch TPM, the more I understand the decisions made during the process - I’ve come to believe it’s mainly just the editing that’s not very exciting, rather than the collective bag of ideas.
What is lost in my edit of the intro (above) is scenes of the Jedi being diplomatic- both with their intentions with the Neimoidians and their interactions with Boss Nass.
I suppose that raises the question of how important seeing them in that role is, balanced against the value gain of (IMO) a better paced and flowing opening to the saga.
Their main goal is still protection of the Queen, arguably the most political of their onscreen actions, and they still demonstrate a key role as defenders of the Republic. We do see them interact diplomatically during other scenes in this movie (with Watto, on Coruscant, and with Boss Nass later), plus in future movies, so I don’t think too much is lost by trimming it as I have.
Compare again to ANH, where the Jedi aren’t explained until we meet Obi-Wan, and we don’t develop his force abilities until the mind trick later.
We also lose a little of their force sense by dropping the “something elsewhere, elusive” conversation, but again, that’s demonstrated elsewhere, through Qui-Gon’s dialogue when they rescue the Queen (“there’s someone else behind this”) and I’ve nudged it a little more by mentioning the Jedi Order’s foresight in my crawl.
But still. All for discussion.
OK, my new edit of the intro is available now. 16 minutes long, but the main changes are the first ~8 min.
IMPORTANT MESSAGE ABOUT JAR JAR’S VOICE AT THE END OF THIS POST.
PLEASE READ BEFORE WATCHING.
So, this edit isn’t quite complete, but that’s as much as I could get done today, and it’s decent enough to share for feedback.
While it might sound like a fairly radical edit of the intro, this still contains the vast majority of context from the original. We don’t have the Jedi on the Neimoidian ship, but we preserve most of the context that’s relevant to the plot, and what’s mostly lost is their action scenes (but we still get three Jedi action scenes in this intro). We also don’t have Otoh Gungah, which is mainly used to justify Jar Jar’s involvement, which isn’t required with alternate voice lines.
My feeling is that this flows very logically and naturally. Specifically, taking the criticism of my first attempt to heart, I first sought out the scenes which best flowed together, then ordered them to best control the flow of information for the viewer. I think it’s now a lot clearer, and emphasises many core plotlines - Neimoidian boldness, Sidious’ influence, Amidala’s role, and the goals of the Jedi. And the tension and viewer excitement is held for longer, so the energy levels are good.
But also, on pacing, it feels a lot more like the OT - specifically A New Hope. If we compare the two, Queen Amidala is our Death Star plans, which makes Naboo (not the Neimoidian ship) our Tantive IV which must be escaped in order to start the plot properly. The Jedi must get the Queen to Coruscant = the good guys must get the Death Star Plans to the Rebellion. ANH spends the first ten minutes on the Tantive IV (with an exciting pursuit-and-capture, clarifying the core conflict, worldbuilding, and kicking off the main plot). It then spends six minutes with the droids on Tattooine for lighter jeopardy and worldbuilding, then introduces Luke at minute 16. Now, this introduction spends the first eleven minutes on Naboo (with an exciting invasion-and-chase, clarifying the core conflict, worldbuilding, and kicking the main plot). It then spends five minutes in space for lighter jeopardy and worldbuilding, then introduces Anakin at minute 16. IT LIKES’S POEMRY. IT’S RHYTHM.
Also, while you don’t want to rush through the film at all, and you want to keep it to a decent length, trimming the opening like this also achieves two things: It gets Darth Maul in play earlier, so he can hang over the plot for longer; and it helps identify the main character - Anakin. The rest are supporting cast, with enough character that we understand and care about them, but after this intro the main bulk of the film from here is really Anakin’s story, with his actions driving the plot.
Oh, and I also intend to borrow a few other nice touches from Hal’s version for this intro - removing the droid’s weird scream as it’s force pushed, and the weird ‘does not compute’ dialogue.
IMPORTANTLY-
I haven’t finished the Jar Jar voicework yet. When you watch, please bear in mind the following: Jar Jar’s motivation (whether he’s already a representative or just a regular Gungan) is that he thinks Queen Amidala is a great leader and he wants to do what he can to protect her. There’s lots of lines in TCW that support that, that I’ll work to include soon. (He’s not necessarily a competent protector and he’s still goofy, but his heart’s in the right place and importantly HE HAS A MOTIVATION NOW.)
In place of the voicework I’ll do soon, I’ve just put in some of my existing Jar Jar alternate voice lines for now, which don’t always fit the context (he knows the Queen’s captured before she gets captured, for example), but hopefully they should serve to remind y’all that different things are being said at those moments, without it being too jarring. Importantly, one thing I’ll add is Jar Jar immediately identifying Qui-Gon as a Jedi, to help the audience make the same connection back to the crawl.
Anyway, have a look, BUT REMEMBER THE JAR JAR STUFF ISN’T FINISHED
If only there were some save button I could have clicked, to somehow preserve my progress!
Either way, I’m not restarting from nothing, it’ll be reproducible, it’s just work. I’ll get there!
I feel good about this edit, I’m excited to share it.
…and I’ve lost all this morning’s work, its backup, and the post I’d written about it.
CRY
Very exciting to hear there’re some blender wizards around!
I’ve just spent some time working on a new edit for the opening of the movie based on both of the ideas shared above. It’s not quite finished but I should get it done tomorrow - I need to work on some alternative Jar Jar lines to give context.
In this version, the Jedi are already on the planet, and are NOT the ambassadors. The Neimoidians immediately destroy the docked ambassador ship, which actually serves to recontextualise all of the surrounding discussion, show their boldness in the face of Republic complacency, and emphasise Sidious’ coercive influence. We will also skip over Otoh Gunga completely, with Jar Jar a more active participant who decides to guide them into the city.
That all sounds fairly radical, but I preserved a lot of the original scenes, albeit with new contexts, and found that it flows really nicely without feeling like it’s jumping all over the place like my previous attempt. It builds tension well, it still gives a lot of context, and it really emphasises the invasion angle. And while it is radical, I don’t propose making many other changes to the rest of the movie - this is mainly to (1) get it off with a bang and keep the energy high through the intro, (2) streamline the politics without removing them entirely, and (3) make Jar Jar a more active participant.
The new crawl that sets this up is as follows:
The GALACTIC REPUBLIC is failing.
Under a weak chancellor, complacency
spreads in the Senate, opposed by
Queen Amidala of Naboo, a vocal
champion against corruption.
Encouraged by a shadowy benefactor,
the greedy TRADE FEDERATION have
massed a fleet around her planet
in an attempt to silence her, prompting
the chancellor to send a team of
ambassadors to negotiate.
Foreseeing an invasion, the Jedi Order,
mystical defenders of the Republic,
have secretly dispatched Jedi Knight
Qui-Gon Jinn and his apprentice to
the swamps outside the capital, seeking
to protect the Queen…
I could trim a little from that - perhaps the references to the Senate, Sidious, or the Trade Federation’s goals - but it covers the main beats. I’m hoping that ‘secretly dispatched’ justifies dropping the Jedi in the swamps nearby well enough…
That said, I do have a couple more ideas I might try, for cutting the Jedi on the Neimoidian ship and allowing the movie to have better momentum at the beginning:
The first idea: If we’re trimming the Neimoidian ship, and a valid criticism of my original attempt was that we flick between too many locations, then perhaps we don’t need to see the Jedi on their ship at all - perhaps they begin on the planet. That way, the first time we see them they’re in action. There’s also a natural flow into that content, as it could be preceded by the army arriving in the swamp, which could itself be preceded by the Neimoidian/Sidious dialogue about the invasion. The opening crawl could simply help place them already on mission.
The second idea: This one’s a little more radical, but we could preserve some of the Neimoidian ship drama and existing plot, and build tension, if the ambassadors sent to the Neimoidians are different characters the Jedi. If the Jedi begin on the planet, getting flushed out by Trade Federation forces, then we still have the footage of a Republic ship arriving on the Neimoidian ship, and being destroyed. Plus we might be able to tie that in with Queen Amidala’s accusative phonecall.
Scene ordering might be:
- Opening crawl
- Neimoidians and Sidious discuss their hopes for the invasion
- Second set of shots of Trade Federation forces landing (this set nicely transitions from the sky to the ground)
- Jedi fleeing tanks, discover Jar Jar (a bit of new Jar Jar dialogue here might help give some key exposition)
- Jar Jar agrees to take the Jedi to Theed
- Set of shots showing Trade Federation forces travelling overground to Theed, Padmé laments at the window
Going with the second idea as well, you could put the scenes of the ambassador-but-not-Jedi ship arriving, then getting immediately destroyed, right after the crawl, which feels like it should flow OK. And Padmé’s smack talk could either come around that time - near Sidious calling her naive - or after her lament later on.
I guess between the two, I’ll pick the first one, since I feel lazy, and it’s an easier feat than the other one. Just a couple simple cuts with some crossfades if need be. The second one requires a lot of work, and I’m worried that you’d need someone who knows Blender all too well in order to pull it off.
I’m feeling exhausted due to my day job. But when I get my energy back, I’d be happy to work on the first option and upload the result like I did last time! What do you think?
Sorry if that sounded like I was asking you to do that Eyepainter, it wasn’t my intent to assume you’d take on the responsibility! I assumed I’d pick it up myself (and use the Jar Jar voice thing while I’m at it), but please do give it a crack if you’re up for it. Or we’ll both give it a crack and compare notes!
I’m definitely more of a Hayden guy, just for the continuity with his most familiar face. Though I’m certainly open to aging it. And I think Vader has eyebrows in Rebels, though I’d reserve judgment on that one until the Kenobi show airs.
You’d have to change the Neimodians holo transmission after the invasion force landed. It doesn’t make sense for them to search their ship for the Jedi, if they landed on Naboo directly.
Yeah, you’d skip that shot.
However now that I saw this, I had an idea. What if we show the Jedi pass the blockade? I’m imagining something like this:
-Crawl
-Sidious hologram
-Obi and Qui-Gon are briefed by pseudo 3PO
-Gunray contacts the Jedi’s ship, they’re asked to land onboard
-Wide Shot of the Jedi’s ship approaching the droid control ship, add in a tiny escape pod flying away
-we follow the pod and see the droid invasion fleet lowering to the surface
-from here on we’re back on track with the original plotThis would bridge the Jedi and the invasion plot and mirror the opening of ANH nicely.
All we would need is a model of an escape pod.
This is a nice idea too. I’d love to get some VFX help on things like this but it’s a big ask every time. I’m picking up Blender right now but I’m at the beginner tutorials stage, so far I’ve made a half decent donut.
Looking forward to seeing it!
My feeling from my own rough demo was that removing the Jedi on the control ship might not be possible after all, though the pacing through the intro might still be improvable.
So I’m really excited to have someone else take a crack at this just in case!
Here’s my version of the intro! I’ve done what I could to polish up certain things, but those things that I can’t do are still incomplete. Hope it’s an improvement!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/118OZlN1IP2C3MvN-dsCAQd7AwEWqltwy/view?usp=sharing
Oh man it’s a treat to see my crawl for real! Though I think Hal’s right, and it is too heavy. Good to see though!
On the actual content, I think your original criticism still stands, and it cuts too quickly between too many locations, so there’s no room to breathe, and the pacing is a bit frantic. Having tested this idea, and tending to prefer conservative changes, I suspect that just a light tightening of the original opening might be most appropriate.
That said, I do have a couple more ideas I might try, for cutting the Jedi on the Neimoidian ship and allowing the movie to have better momentum at the beginning:
The first idea: If we’re trimming the Neimoidian ship, and a valid criticism of my original attempt was that we flick between too many locations, then perhaps we don’t need to see the Jedi on their ship at all - perhaps they begin on the planet. That way, the first time we see them they’re in action. There’s also a natural flow into that content, as it could be preceded by the army arriving in the swamp, which could itself be preceded by the Neimoidian/Sidious dialogue about the invasion. The opening crawl could simply help place them already on mission.
The second idea: This one’s a little more radical, but we could preserve some of the Neimoidian ship drama and existing plot, and build tension, if the ambassadors sent to the Neimoidians are different characters the Jedi. If the Jedi begin on the planet, getting flushed out by Trade Federation forces, then we still have the footage of a Republic ship arriving on the Neimoidian ship, and being destroyed. Plus we might be able to tie that in with Queen Amidala’s accusative phonecall.
Scene ordering might be:
Going with the second idea as well, you could put the scenes of the ambassador-but-not-Jedi ship arriving, then getting immediately destroyed, right after the crawl, which feels like it should flow OK. And Padmé’s smack talk could either come around that time - near Sidious calling her naive - or after her lament later on.
Looking forward to seeing it!
My feeling from my own rough demo was that removing the Jedi on the control ship might not be possible after all, though the pacing through the intro might still be improvable.
So I’m really excited to have someone else take a crack at this just in case!
I think that’s a great idea! You’re still covering it at roughly the same time in the movie, but it definitely fits that scene. You’d lose Anakin’s reaction from the movie though, what’re the surrounding lines in the animated segment?
That’s better across the board.
I went to the Skywalker homestead back in 2009 when on holiday in Tunisia, and your grade is much more accurate to how it actually was. The walls are white paint, not off-white. Picture.
Yeah, you’re right. It just doesn’t flow at all. Oh well! Perhaps keeping the original opening is necessary for the flow.