EddieDean

Peter Pan said:

You’d have to change the Neimodians holo transmission after the invasion force landed. It doesn’t make sense for them to search their ship for the Jedi, if they landed on Naboo directly.

Yeah, you’d skip that shot.

However now that I saw this, I had an idea. What if we show the Jedi pass the blockade? I’m imagining something like this:

-Crawl
-Sidious hologram
-Obi and Qui-Gon are briefed by pseudo 3PO
-Gunray contacts the Jedi’s ship, they’re asked to land onboard
-Wide Shot of the Jedi’s ship approaching the droid control ship, add in a tiny escape pod flying away
-we follow the pod and see the droid invasion fleet lowering to the surface
-from here on we’re back on track with the original plot

This would bridge the Jedi and the invasion plot and mirror the opening of ANH nicely.
All we would need is a model of an escape pod.

This is a nice idea too. I’d love to get some VFX help on things like this but it’s a big ask every time. I’m picking up Blender right now but I’m at the beginner tutorials stage, so far I’ve made a half decent donut.

Eyepainter said:

EddieDean said:

Looking forward to seeing it!

My feeling from my own rough demo was that removing the Jedi on the control ship might not be possible after all, though the pacing through the intro might still be improvable.

So I’m really excited to have someone else take a crack at this just in case!

Here’s my version of the intro! I’ve done what I could to polish up certain things, but those things that I can’t do are still incomplete. Hope it’s an improvement!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/118OZlN1IP2C3MvN-dsCAQd7AwEWqltwy/view?usp=sharing

Oh man it’s a treat to see my crawl for real! Though I think Hal’s right, and it is too heavy. Good to see though!

On the actual content, I think your original criticism still stands, and it cuts too quickly between too many locations, so there’s no room to breathe, and the pacing is a bit frantic. Having tested this idea, and tending to prefer conservative changes, I suspect that just a light tightening of the original opening might be most appropriate.

That said, I do have a couple more ideas I might try, for cutting the Jedi on the Neimoidian ship and allowing the movie to have better momentum at the beginning:

The first idea: If we’re trimming the Neimoidian ship, and a valid criticism of my original attempt was that we flick between too many locations, then perhaps we don’t need to see the Jedi on their ship at all - perhaps they begin on the planet. That way, the first time we see them they’re in action. There’s also a natural flow into that content, as it could be preceded by the army arriving in the swamp, which could itself be preceded by the Neimoidian/Sidious dialogue about the invasion. The opening crawl could simply help place them already on mission.

The second idea: This one’s a little more radical, but we could preserve some of the Neimoidian ship drama and existing plot, and build tension, if the ambassadors sent to the Neimoidians are different characters the Jedi. If the Jedi begin on the planet, getting flushed out by Trade Federation forces, then we still have the footage of a Republic ship arriving on the Neimoidian ship, and being destroyed. Plus we might be able to tie that in with Queen Amidala’s accusative phonecall.

Scene ordering might be:

• Opening crawl
• Neimoidians and Sidious discuss their hopes for the invasion
• Second set of shots of Trade Federation forces landing (this set nicely transitions from the sky to the ground)
• Jedi fleeing tanks, discover Jar Jar (a bit of new Jar Jar dialogue here might help give some key exposition)
• Jar Jar agrees to take the Jedi to Theed
• Set of shots showing Trade Federation forces travelling overground to Theed, Padmé laments at the window

Going with the second idea as well, you could put the scenes of the ambassador-but-not-Jedi ship arriving, then getting immediately destroyed, right after the crawl, which feels like it should flow OK. And Padmé’s smack talk could either come around that time - near Sidious calling her naive - or after her lament later on.

Looking forward to seeing it!

My feeling from my own rough demo was that removing the Jedi on the control ship might not be possible after all, though the pacing through the intro might still be improvable.

So I’m really excited to have someone else take a crack at this just in case!

I think that’s a great idea! You’re still covering it at roughly the same time in the movie, but it definitely fits that scene. You’d lose Anakin’s reaction from the movie though, what’re the surrounding lines in the animated segment?

That’s better across the board.

I went to the Skywalker homestead back in 2009 when on holiday in Tunisia, and your grade is much more accurate to how it actually was. The walls are white paint, not off-white. Picture.

Yeah, you’re right. It just doesn’t flow at all. Oh well! Perhaps keeping the original opening is necessary for the flow.

Here’s a very ROUGH example of that idea that I threw together very quickly, to see how you guys think that version works if it played out that way.

That issue’s a bit of a pain. I find that running the audio track through audacity once or twice, sometimes via other filetypes, often does the trick.

Hal 9000 said:

Can’t do that, because I’d like a ‘planetary celebration’ with Shaw, and don’t want another version or two to track and worry about when it’s a change I have no interest in. Again, all the resources are there to make that tweak for whomever would like to.

I wonder if it’s worth someone creating (and pinning?) a little video tutorial on how to make small personal tweaks to scenes. Because you’re quite right, these kinds of things are super easy, but most people probably don’t think that. And it would take the pressure off editors to create multiple versions, letting them release alternate versions of single scenes, AND upskilling the consumer community while we were at it.

I did this myself a while back, integrating shamook’s Luke into my last episode of Mando season one.

NeverarGreat said:

That idea is neat, but I think it would feel out of place considering the setup. The ‘bait’ aspect of the Death Star and the Rebel’s attack plan both hinge on the Death Star being hidden and isolated from the rest of the galaxy and the Imperial fleet. If the Death Star were to be constructed around Coruscant (or moved there at some point in its construction), there would be no way to keep that a secret and so the Death Star would fail to be enticing as a target to the Rebels since they would expect a trap.

Yeah, and this must be why they chose to change its location to far from the core worlds.

G&G-Fan said:

I don’t really see how it would conflict with the prequels.

It’d only conflict with the prequels insofar as it would be nice to see the moon in orbit of Coruscant more in that case.

Yeah, also all good points. I guess these’re all less important if you’re positioning the prequels as just the ‘flashback’ showing Anakin’s fall, but for a proper focus on the wider saga, TPM is pretty key.

Totally unrelated, I’ve just been thinking a little more about the opening of TPM, in the scenario where we don’t have the Jedi board the Neimoidian ship. I know some think we need those scenes, so I was wondering if there was an approach where you could have the best of both worlds, and that led me to thinking about intercutting between the early Neimoidian scenes and the scenes of the Jedi on the planet. Perhaps something like this:

• Opening crawl explains that Naboo’s been invaded, that Queen Amidala is at risk of capture, and that the Jedi have been sent to rescue her (she’s the metaphorical Death Star plans).
• Open on an establishing shot of the Trade Federation ship bridge, and a later scene of them talking to Sidious:
  • Nute: “The invasion is on schedule, my lord.”
  • Sidious: “I have the Senate bogged down in procedures. They will have no choice but to accept your control of the system.”
  • Nute: “The Queen has great faith that the Senate will side with her.”
  • Sidious: “Queen Amidala is young and naive. You will find controlling her will not be difficult.”
  • Nute: “Yes, my lord.”
• Cut to scenes of the invasion of Theed, as Amidala sadly watches.
• Cut to the original first establishing shot of the Jedi’s ship approaching the planet.
• Cut to the first scene of the Jedi originally in the droid control ship’s waiting room. (This is now a room on the Jedi ship, perhaps via some VFX masking of the windows to show the ship approaching quite low to the planet.) Have the droid (dubbed) say “We have slipped past the blockade but our ship has been identified. I have activated the comms jammer, and will land us in the nearby swamp. You will have to move quickly.” Keep most of the rest of the scene, surrounding Obi-Wan’s feelings of unease.
• Cut to the scene of the Neimoidians on the bridge, clearly showing a transmission going fuzzy. (Originally they were reacting to the Jedi fighting the battle droids on their own ship.)
  • Nute: “What’s going on down there?”
  • Comms guy: “We lost the transmission sir.”
  • Nute’s friend: “Have you ever encountered a Jedi Knight before, sir?”
  • Nute: “Well no, but… [hesitates] I will contact Lord Sidious.”
• Ideally, manufacture a shot of the Jedi ship landing in the swamp/forest. (Perhaps with added VO of Qui-Gon saying “let’s split up”, or other voice implying they’re heading overland to the palace)
• Cut to the scene of Neimoidians and Sidious on the bridge.
  • Sidious: “What is it?”
  • Nute’s friend: “The [invasion/plan] is finished! We dare not go against the Jedi.”
  • Sidious: “This turn of events is unfortunate. The chancellor should never have brought them into this. Begin landing [more] troops.”
  • Nute: “My lord…”
  • Sidious: “Kill them immediately.”
  • Nute: “Yes, yes my lord, as you wish.”
• (Now we have a reason for the Jedi encountering resistance immediately on the surface, and our villains and Jedi are in conflict even though they’re not in the same scenes.)
• Cut to the scene of the Trade Federation invasion fleet landing, and then the Neimoidians holocalling in to the droid commander:
  • Droid: “Yes, Viceroy?”
  • Nute: “Captain, we’ve searched the ship, and there is no trace of the Jedi.”
  • Droid: “If they’re down here, we’ll find them.”
  • Nute: “Use caution, these Jedi are not to be underestimated.”
• Cut to the Jedi fleeing the droids and encountering Jar Jar, and continue from there.
• Later, when appropriate (around the plot of getting Jar Jar and the Jedi to Theed), have the Neimoidians’ arrival on the planet and their discussion with the droid captain: “Viceroy, we have captured the Queen.” “Ah, Victory.”

(There’s also perhaps a place earlier on for Padmé’s insulting phonecall with the Neimoidians.)

Now, the Neimoidians have sent a whole military force to hunt down the Jedi, emphasising their threat to the invasion, and the first time we see the Jedi in action, we see how they handle the droids mainly through evasion, but also some good Jedi skill. We still get all of the important context of the Neimoidians and Sidious’ relationship, and the Jedi’s relationship and context, but we get more quickly to action whilst preserving each side’s threat/reaction to each other. We also get the invasion in earlier, which helps move the plot along and helps make ‘save the Queen’ our core macguffin instead of starting with negotiation.

SpenceEdit said:

1. Qui-Gon. The juxtaposition of the way he is (compassionate, caring, unafraid to take risks) vs. the way the Jedi council is (scared, traditionalist, forbidding connection) is important to see. It sets up that the way the Jedi Order functions doesn’t work and should change. Obi-Wan being pulled between the Order and the way Qui-Gon operated is what leads to his middle-ground approach to training Anakin, which leaves him vulnerable to Palpatine.

2. The Republic. We need to see it the way we see it in TPM. It’s huge, thriving, bright, happy. We need to see it that way to realize how corrupted it becomes, and see the tragedy of its downfall into becoming the Empire.

I personally agree with both, though it would have been nice if both of those core messages were a bit more explicit in the script. Good points though.

I do think TPM deserves its place in the saga, I’m just curious what others think here.

I’m not particularly a fan of this idea myself, but I thought I’d put it here for discussion:

Famously the machete order removes TPM from the viewing, arguing that the movie doesn’t carry any context that isn’t otherwise given by AOTC. I’m not suggesting anything about viewing order here, but I wonder if it’s worth thinking about the impact of TPM. What information is conveyed in TPM that isn’t covered by other movies?

I spotted in Faraday’s TROS novelisation thread something worth considering here:

In the original draft of ROTJ, the forest moon of Endor was orbiting Coruscant as a kind of nature sanctuary, hence the ‘sanctuary moon’. I wonder if there’s a value add by revisiting that idea, which you could potentially achieve via the crawl, some C-3PO dialogue, and VFX to add the planet in the background.

Pros would be that it’d bring the climax nearer to the heart of the galaxy, increase the jeopardy, contrast Coruscant’s industrialisation with Endor’s nature, and add some nice options for visuals and alternate options regarding the location of the Emperor’s throne room and the way the SSD/DS2 are destroyed.

Cons would be that it might bring the fleet strengths into question (you’d expect a lot more defence above Coruscant, and a more likely pincer trap), and it might conflict with other movies which feature Coruscant or the DS2 wreckage.

Since it’s in dim light, I wonder if there’s a way to have it light offscreen, casting ambiguously blue/green light?

I’ve been loving it too, and I hope someone uploads all the voice lines from Clone Wars actors in case I can make use of any in my edit.

It’s amazing that they used the puppet show for a similar reason to our version.

I think it was discussed earlier that Yoda’s restored line “Obi-Wan would have told you earlier, had I let him” could help sell the angle that Luke’s been training with Yoda between movies without getting answers about his parents.

You’re quite right! Sorry, my comment wasn’t intended to sound so negative!

Some valid points here, but to address just one:

The emperor’s guards do serve a purpose. They exist to be dismissed by the Emperor, to show the audience just how little he views Luke as a threat, and his absolute confidence.

Just thinking about the source chat, I’m very ignorant of different versions, but isn’t Harmy’s Despecialised considered one of the best sources? Or 4K83 when it releases?

I wasn’t expecting to be as impressed with this grade as I am. Everything looks a lot more real, a lot more natural, a lot more OT.

Thinking about it, I don’t know if we need to have Boba be quite so explicit with Jabba or quite so clear about his intentions.

Our intention here is to tie the Jabba sequence in better with the rest of the film- or rather, from the audience’s perspective, make them feel that it matters to the overall plot and is therefore interesting.

Chronologically, I think the only thing that really needs is the Vader-Boba connection up front, because that tells the audience “Boba is Vader’s agent, pay more attention to Boba, and be aware that what happens here is important to Vader.” Less may well be more in order to up the audience investment.

I don’t think we need to lean into the Sarlacc angle, nor the fact that Jabba attempts to kill Luke via the Rancor. This is Jabba’s domain, and both Boba and Vader know that. In the moment where Jabba decides to drop Luke into the pit, the control is out of Boba’s hands. When Luke survives, he’s back on “capture if possible” duty.

That’s not to say that there might also be a Sarlacc angle here - just that I feel that the primary element for the audience is the bridge from “Vader wants Luke” to Tattooine, and that can probably be handled in isolation so we don’t build too much of a web of thoughts here.

Man that’s good. Sarlacc as a Jedi incapacitator works great. You can kind of have your cake and eat it with that one. Is there a shot of Boba and Jabba that could be used to have Boba talk? Where he’s leaning in, perhaps? Because you could have Jabba try to kill Luke via the Rancor (because he’s an obvious threat), but then once he’s recovered have Boba tell him “I could really do with this guy incapacitated”, which would precede the Sarlacc plan.

Looks great, but one thing stood out to me: Where you’ve added the sun in the space shot, that conflicts with the light/shadow on the second death star. The sun, as the brightest point of light, should be what determines the shadow, so you need to position the two objects with the shadow line perpendicular to the line between them.