Updated the first post now I’ve got four episodes complete.
Second episode is up too.
Episode 1 version 2 is now available by PM.
That’s very useful, thank you. I’m just uploading a new v2 now, having worked further on the music transitions for minutes 8-12, so that part should feel more polished. I’ve introduced more of a pause between those two lines, and extended the music into that section to make it feel a little more connected.
I haven’t edited the credits yet, as I made these changes before your clarification, but I’ll incorporate that in the next revision. I had originally planned to have the same pacing for all end credits but having worked on three episodes now I’ve found it’s much more sensible to have them match the cadence of your scene. Message received on ‘less pause’ though.
Thanks very much for your feedback!
I think we could come up with a interesting dialogue change for the two stormtroopers commenting on the Knights Of Ren, maybe something in relation to changes or messages we wanna get across in the edit.
Heres some random ideas I thought of.
Stormtrooper 1: “Knights Of Ren”
Stormtrooper 2: “We don’t need help from those cultists”
Stormtrooper 1: “Weren’t those Snoke’s guards?”
Stormtrooper 2: “Not anymore”
Stormtrooper 1: “Snoke’s old guards”
Stormtrooper 2: “It’s been years”
Interested to hear anyone else’s ideas.
I like this! Perhaps: “Knights of Ren.” “We don’t need help from that worthless cult.”, to imply they’re sidelined and only really a part of Kylo’s whole thing.
Absolutely love that grey!
Thanks very much for the feedback!
I’m calling the show ‘The Third Age’, of which the first episode will be ‘The Hobbit’ (as opposed to the other way round).
When you say the credits took longer, do you mean the opening credits or the end credits?
I’ll take the note on the music cuts, thank you! What did you think of those minutes 8-12? Did they work overall?
Presenting THE THIRD AGE, a Movie-to-TV edit of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings film trilogies.
Aaaaaand that’s all eight episodes of the Hobbit season complete, uploaded, and available. I’d love your feedback.
The project has two goals:
- GOAL ONE: To present the story of all six films in a TV format, with the Hobbit films forming the first season and the Lord of the Rings films forming the second, as if they had been produced as a high-budget TV series like Game of Thrones or the forthcoming Middle-Earth TV show set in the second age.
- GOAL TWO: To vastly improve the Hobbit ‘season’, and make it the worthy and enjoyable predecessor to the Lord of the Rings films that it always should have been.
The TV format has allowed me to make certain elegant changes which movie edits have struggled to work around given the source material. I won’t spoil them here, but both fans of the movies and haters of the Hobbit films should find themselves pleasantly suprised!
This entire project grew from the observation that there are good natural thematic breakpoints which pace the story well, but I’m also not just arbitrarily cutting around the 45 minute mark. The TV format allows me to reorder scenes slightly, into more cohesive thematic chunks, so you should be able to feel like you watched a complete end-to-end episode in a given viewing. (With an assumed week’s wait between episodes.) Again, I don’t want to spoil too much, but ‘Riddles in the Dark’ and ‘The Lonely Mountain’ take on a deeper meaning, and interesting sub-plots like the disappearance of Thrain are allowed to become the focus of a single episode, for example.
I achieve the goal of improving the Hobbit through using AdamDens’ masterful three-to-two movie duology, ‘The Gathering of The Clouds’/‘There and Back Again’, as my primary source, however there isn’t an episode produced that I haven’t further modified in some way. I’m really pleased with some of the cuts I’ve been able to make, and am proud to present this as the Hobbit I believe it always should have been.
SEASON ONE (THE HOBBIT) CHANGES
These episodes contain MAJOR CHANGES TO THE HOBBIT MOVIES with the intent of minimising poor humour, cartoonish physics, and unwelcome sub-plots, whilst focusing on the stories of Bilbo, Thorin, and Gandalf, and maximising the growing threat of Sauron and cohesiveness with the Lord of the Rings films.
- Restructured into eight ~45 minute episodes, with bold title cards to give the impression of book chapters.
- Introduced credits for each episode including episode-specific credits music to make it feel like a TV series.
- Restructured some scenes for pacing, such as introducing fewer plots at the beginning all at once, introducing Azog later (since we don’t need a new main villain like the first movie did), and making the investigation of the Necromancer more of a developing mystery.
- Used alternate subtitles for Black Speech, to simplify and better contextualise the villains’ motives, enhance the Necromancer subplot, and help contextualise the attack on the Dwarves and the Lonely Mountain as an early strategic move of Sauron’s in the war for Middle Earth.
- Removed as much silliness as possible, such as some of Radagast’s eccentricities, the Trolls’ snot jokes, and Dwarven antics (where they appear silly or abrasive, as opposed to merely uncouth)
- Removed as much cringe as possible, such as the Tauriel romance, most of Alfrid’s antics, the Dwarven forge and golden dragon, and Dain’s swearing and modern slang
- Removed as much cartoon physics as possible, or situations characters only survive through luck, such as with the storm giants, during the barrel riding scene, the goblin halls (including the major falls), and the final battles
- Removed as much obvious/bad CG as possible, such as the Goblin King’s wobbly singing, a lot of Legolas’ superpowers
- Tightened or removed scenes to keep up the pace and keep the focus on character drama and characters we’re emotionally invested in, such as removing the warg attack on the party, removing the warg attack on Lake-town, removing Legolas from the final fight on ravenhill, and trimming Thorin waiting patiently for Azog to jump out of the ice.
SPECIFIC SCENE CHANGES:
- OPENING: Far tighter and with less of the scenes in the shire which don’t move the plot forward, with some of Thorin’s flashbacks moved to later
- BILBO’S HOME: Dwarves are less goofy and only sing their ‘misty mountain’ song but not ‘smash the plates’.
- TROLLS: Far less snot jokes and other unfunny bits.
- RIVENDELL: Dwarves are less goofy and less awful dinner guests - they’re uncouth, not ‘hilariously’ abrasive. The tension between Dwarves and Elves is emphasised.
- MOUNTAIN PASS: Trimmed storm giants
- GOBLIN CAVES: No unbelievable physics, no Goblin King singing, tightened for pacing.
- ESCAPE FROM THE GOBLIN CAVES: No warg chase from the Goblin tunnels (though tension is retained), no initial showdown with Azog with forced emotional stakes for Thorin and Bilbo. Their relationship develops much more naturally.
- ARRIVAL AT MIRKWOOD: Split into two scenes between two episodes. Now, when they arrive, Bilbo immediately feels the pull of the ring and Gandalf notices immediately, before Bilbo lies about finding the ring; at the start of the next episode Gandalf explores Mirkwood and warns the party of its dangers, before they enter alone.
- THE WOODLAND REALM: No Tauriel romance. Heavy trims to barrel-riding scene to minimise cringe, bad physics, and Legolas superpowers.
- LAKETOWN: Minimised Alfrid and the Master. No Warg attack. No Tauriel romance.
- THE LONELY MOUNTAIN: No Smaug forge scene, no golden Dragon.
- SMAUG’S ATTACK ON LAKETOWN: Tightened for pacing and focus on characters we care about.
- BATTLE OF THE FIVE ARMIES: Trimmed Dain’s dialogue, nearly no Alfrid, trimmed flow of the battle, trimmed the more ludicrous CG, no Tauriel romance, no Legolas superpowers on the fallen tower/bridge, tightened final battle between Thorin and Azog.
This won’t be a book purity cut - this will be a cut which aims to produce the best possible version of the movies we were given, in a way that makes them feel like a worthy lead-in to LotR.
I have to emphasize here my reliance on AdamDens’ incredible source. He put two years of work into his three-to-two movie project, creating all new scenes, performing colour grading and other visual edits, modifying audio and subtitles. My Hobbit season contains some changes on top of AdamDens, including a few edits I’d consider major (which you can see in this thread), but my edit is nevertheless massively indebted to his work.
SEASON TWO (LOTR) CHANGES
- Replaced scene of Bilbo finding the ring with the appropriate scene from the Hobbit
- Removed Gandalf saying “You haven’t aged a day”, since our Bilbo actors do look different ages. I know that in the book that was intended as literally true, but we do have two different faces here, and Bilbo clearly has aged more than a day.
I don’t expect to need to make other edits to the Lord of the Rings movies other than chopping them into episodes, though I may make very minor, extremely light-touch changes if it helps the episodic format work.
FULL SERIES CHANGES:
- Once I’ve completed all episodes for both seasons (Hobbit and LotR), I’m going to see if I can do anything nice with the first episodes of both seasons to make it a bit more chronological and accessible for the first-time viewer. I plan to move ‘Concerning Hobbits’ from LotR to part of the introduction for the Hobbit, and play around with the scenes set around the time of Bilbo’s 111th Birthday Party. But this will probably constitute a version 2.
Season One (The Hobbit) - ALL COMPLETE, running at 6h29m instead of 8h52m (2h23m cut)
The Hobbit (45:24) - COMPLETE AND AVAILABLE
Featuring Old Bilbo’s bookend, the Erebor introduction, Bilbo joining the Dwarves, and Radagast investigating Mirkwood
An Unexpected Journey (45:37) - COMPLETE AND AVAILABLE
Featuring trolls, Rivendell, the first meeting of the White Council, and the mountain pass
Riddles in the Dark (53:10) - COMPLETE AND AVAILABLE
Featuring goblins, Gandalf investigating the nine’s graves, Gollum, and Beorn
The Return of the Shadow (54:33) - COMPLETE AND AVAILABLE
Featuring the Gandalf-meets-Thorin flashback, Mirkwood, the Woodland Realm, barrel riding, and Gandalf confronting the Necromancer
The Lonely Mountain - (44:07) - COMPLETE AND AVAILABLE
Featuring Bard, Laketown, the arrival at the Lonely Mountain, and the White Council coming to Gandalf’s aid
The Desolation of Smaug - (45:05) COMPLETE AND AVAILABLE
Featuring Smaug the Magnificent, O Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities
The Battle of the Five Armies - (45:32) COMPLETE AND AVAILABLE
Featuring the fallout of Smaug’s death, Thorin’s madness, and the initial clash of the five armies
There and Back Again - (54:01) COMPLETE AND AVAILABLE
Featuring more of the Battle of the Five Armies, the strike on Azog on ravenhill, the Erebor conclusions, and Bilbo’s return home
Season Two (The Lord of the Rings)
13-15 episodes depending on sensible cuts - NOT YET STARTED
This is my very first editing project so feedback is absolutely welcome, encouraged, and requested.
Many thanks for your interest!
PM for links to the folder.
An alternative to Rey needing to be a Palpatine to have conflict, could be her struggles with the Dark. Force lightning, her relatively high power, it could all be because she leans towards it.
I saw a great interview with Dave Filoni (I think it was part of the BTS for Mandalorian) where he talks about why the fight between Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon and Darth Maul is the ‘Duel of the Fates’ - it’s the duel for the fate of Anakin’s soul. He expands, that Qui-Gon is the first Jedi to realise the failing of the light side, and the issue with the Jedi serving a corruptible republic. He explains that, had Qui-Gon survived, that HE would have been the one to train Anakin, and would have raised Anakin to learn to manage and accept his darker side, rather than treat it as a binary thing to reject (at first) then allow to consume him (like Vader).
And remember, we have that through-line of Qui-Gon being the first one to be able to exist as a force ghost, passing it on to Yoda and Obi-Wan - the two other most enlightened jedi. So right from the beginning (well, the PT), it was intended that balance beat light or dark.
And I believe that the balance concept of Lucas’ scripts remained part of the intention in the ST. In the first Jedi temple, there’s the black/white buddha statue. Luke himself says “at the height of their power the Jedi failed to stop Palpatine” and that “it’s time for the Jedi to end”.
I think that leaves us with a solid through-line of Rey being the inheritor of that line of thought, from Qui-gon to Yoda to Obi-wan to Luke to deathbed-Vader to Rey, as the idea that balance is the way into force-heaven. Green lightsabers seem to be a signifier that they’re on this path.
And that conflict with the dark which becomes acceptance and balance doesn’t need to include a relationship with Palpatine, if it can be played up - while still being a satisfying conclusion to the entire saga.
(And in that context, Rey declaring herself “Nobody” works as she’s accepted who she is, just as declaring herself “Skywalker” implies “the inheritor to that line of enlightened thought”. Her creation of a gold lightsaber would signify her being the one to ‘conclude’/‘refine’ it, leading the next generation in balance.)
Thanks. So I assume then it’d be sensible to cut the universal content (credits, openings) in advance (as early projects), so I have that collateral ready to be added to each episode?
Hi folks, I’m embarking on a little project, where I’m going to edit multiple movies down into multiple episodes, and I need a bit of advice on how to manage the project using my editing software.
My main question is, should I be creating one project per episode (and adding in only all of the sources for that episode), or should I be creating one single project (which contains all the sources, then exports out only each episode in isolation)?
Since we’re nearing a release, I thought it worth revisiting some of the earlier ideas which came out of the poll I did or in earlier discussion, but which haven’t seen much consideration recently. So, in case they warrant further thought and discussion, and in no particular order:
- Making the smoke around Palpatine’s life support green, as a way of implying an arcane factor to Palpatine’s resurrection (with a hint of Nightsister magic for those who care)
- Making Palpatine’s Final Order a bit more of a hodgepodge of new First Order troopers, older Original Trilogy troopers, and sith cultists
- Rey Nobody, who was also not a factor in Palpatine’s plan - she was the one variable he didn’t predict, so upon learning about her he simply intended to kill her, before being defeated by her and the jonh ghost squad
- Leaning more into the Dyad in prior movies, and possibly incorporating TLJ’s black/white buddha pool into the imagery somehow, though cutting the idea of consuming it being something Palpatine wants to do
- Leia as the active cause of the Han Solo ‘memory’, and thus giving her last breath to help return her son to the light
- Kylo’s survival and exile on Tattooine - redemption and penance without absolution, and we end with a Ben on Tattooine, just like Kenobi before him
- Ajan Kloss as Naboo, to bring the PT into the ST, and for a fitting final rest for Leia
And the one I personally think would be brilliant, albeit for a lot of FX work:
- Making Rey’s lightsaber blue but with Kylo’s crackling effect throughout. This would give payoff to the broken lightsaber in TLJ, imply that she’s a little broken/dark-leaning herself, symbolise a change to the skywalker legacy, and pay off the later decision to rebuild her own saber into gold later. But most valuably, it’d echo Kylo’s nicely, and then give some great imagery when she teleports it to Kylo - not only would it imply him turning towards the light, but it would give him the saber he thinks is his birthright but in a broken form.
A: 6, 1
K: 2, 8
U: 2, 3 <I like all the lines for Ushar which have that air of pettiness to them rather than the ones where it feels like they’re just following orders
V: 3, 8 <I really don’t like “that’s not fair” as one of their lines. They’re vicious creatures, they’re not interested in fairness. Suprise is best.
Knight of Kalee said:
Hey! I remember someone in this forum once did a mock-up of a green Exegol, but I can’t remember who was.
I was thinking about that idea of suggesting Palpatine kept himself alive through arcane methods, maybe involving secrets learned from the Nightsisters. That could be accomplished by surrounding the ailing Palpatine and his machinery with a faint green mist, plus Nightsister magic sound effects pulled from the Clone Wars show.
Also, maybe that green color and magic SFX could be applied to the Force-draining when Palpatine restores himself. I was watching the original movie with my family and it was kind of funny for us how the draining effect looked like a Dementor’s kiss 😄
That actually makes sense, especially considering the zombie Nightsisters in Jedi Fallen Order
Yes! Always been a fan of anything that implies a link between Palpatine and the Nightsister magics as opposed to Sith magics. For me it always implied that Palps’ plans were wider than the Sith, or that he was especially desperate.
These are so, so good. I think you’re absolutely nailing this. In the second clip I’d delay Too Good Too Bad by about 30 seconds - you have it start as soon as they get in the car, then go quiet later, but it’s probably better off kicking off when the car action scene escalates, so that it can play out fully from there.
Yeah, Cowboy Bebop is absolutely worth checking out - especially if you “don’t like anime” (I don’t). It’s an incredible, mature, fun, realistic space opera. And its music is incredible. You could absolutely enjoy a Bebopified Solo movie without knowing the show, because so much of the style is captured by the music and it genuinely would suit Solo, but the show is magnificent whether you like anime or not.
As a counterpoint to the idea that Leia’s vision showed her son would die, remember, a major motivator for her in TFA was the idea they’d “lost” their son. So just like ‘Vader killed Anakin’, we can interpret that ‘Kylo killed Ben’, and that was why they called him lost. His fall was worse than his death, so I think the vision (which, yes, included his death) doesn’t need to be a prophecy which was ultimately fulfilled, because her main fear there, just like Luke’s major regret, was his fall to the darkside. His redemption is what she’s after.
Hal 9000 said:
It’s weird to feel a little sad to see how… close to being sort of complete the cutlist is.
I’ll be real with you, it’s gonna be hard when this thing is finished.
If only there was a way to do a big watch party premiere when it’s done. To send the HAL9000 saga out with a bang!
We could get everyone on Discord and sync up a play of it!
These are really great! I wasn’t sure about this idea at all, but seeing it, it really works! I don’t even really think you need another voice. Other than making what you already have a little clearer, I wouldn’t suggest anything else at all!
- “Solo’s Wookiee” (implies they have fairly good tabs on our resistance heroes and Ben’s wider life)
- “I get his teeth” (or, “I get his hide”)
- “The girl. I feel her presence. Find her.” (“The girl” seems to be how the bad guys refer to Rey, as Kylo did in TFA when he was on the hunt for her. Find her keeps the intention ambiguous, so editors won’t need to work around this as they would with ‘Palpatine wants…’, etc)
I’d advise only using two - three feels a bit too full.
- “Still chasing the girl, Ben?” (emphasises his turn, his feelings for Rey, and uses his old name, which they must surely consider an insult)
- “Traitorous scum. To think we followed you.” (Best reference back to “master of the Knights of Ren”, makes it personal)
- “You’ll join your father soon” (‘Join’ better than ‘see’ because they might not believe in ghosts, but this one’s strongest as it twists the knife, and reminds us we’ve lost Han)
- “What?! How?!” (We recognise it as Luke’s so we don’t need the reminder, nor do we need them to account for ‘fairness’ - this plot element and new power should be a suprise, so their language here should just reflect that)
So what about shifting Mustafar to the ending of TLJ? He failed to convince Rey of his ideology and had her slam the mental door on him, he failed to defeat Luke Skywalker, he defeated Snoke. He’s in the right mindset to seek greater power. So we have the ‘find me’ radio scene, then we end on a quick montage of him travelling to Mustafar, slaughtering through the natives, and finding an object which is clearly a map. Mysterious! Angry Kylo leaves us in a nice dark place.
Then, with TROS, we open with him finally having followed the wayfinder.
Yeah. It’s a bit flimsy, but that’s how the films have done it. Vader turned at the end and lobbed Palpatine down the shaft, and that plus a little chat with Luke were all we really needed to accept he’s now so good he gets to become a ghost.
Kylo wouldn’t be much different. He joined the fight versus Palpatine, healed Rey, got a kiss, then died. That’s roughly equivalent, for these purposes, and that’s why folks support it.
This is why I’m leaning way more to survival and exile. Firstly, the whole heal > kiss > die scene was just super clumsy either way. Secondly, that it just mirror’s Vader’s too closely, and I’d rather see something different. But mainly, because I think it’s more potent to see someone initially full of rage and confusion choose a life of penitence and peace.
Hal 9000 said:
I agree 100%. I just wanted to play devil’s advocate about the bad guys and their former one-sidedness in fairness to the original point.
Yup, totally legitimate point. I enjoyed it being more explicit in the old EU, where it was used to good effect. It showed that Thrawn was considered valuable beyond the Imperials’ prejudice (like, uh, Ben Carson?), and in the Legacy comics it showed a more desperate Imperial remnant needing to turn to aliens to bolster their ranks. In both examples, potent and cool.
Nice post. Wasn’t expecting to for things to get deep.
Yeah, sorry. Didn’t want to, and I know it’s no fun, but I do kind of feel responsible for standing up for this kind of thing. Privilege isn’t a zero sum game, it’s not a limited resource we need to fight over, and I hate that people have to go through their lives with others wanting them to have less. Nobody loses out when we treat others as valid (except those who seek to deny others their validity; punch your local nazis, folks).
Seriously though, is having Leia die with Padme’s necklace in her hands a good idea?
Chase Adams said:
Great post, but since when do Imperials have unnatural hair colours? 😐
Not hair colours specifically, but the Ralph McQuarrie art book (and I’m sure other sources) discuss how Lucas, right from the beginning, directed the artists in this way. The intention was that Imperials would use an unnatural colour scheme - black, white, grey, red - whereas rebels would use natural colours - browns, forest green, sky blue. There are exceptions but those guidelines were definitely given and broadly applied. So objecting to Holdo’s hair colour on that basis would be valid (though I think caring about that is a waste of a perfectly good care).
I for one can definitely imagine an Imperial (even in senior uniform) with pink hair looking pretty appropriate.