The way you’ve twisted Rey’s story is so ridiculous that I’m honestly sad for you that you see it like that. I don’t know what else to say. Nothing I’ve ever said has ever seemed to have any effect. I don’t know why I keep responding to you.
As I’ve stated before when this has come up, she’s looking for for her place in the world. At first she thinks she’s looking for someone to show her her purpose, by the end of TLJ she’s coming to understand that she’ll find her purpose on her own. Everything she does comes down to that and her innate goodness (which are connected, she longs for connection and is isolated but empathetic - look at her saving BB8, empathetic to his plight and ultimately finds kinship with him). Even without building the new Jedi she has still found the place she was looking for with her friends in the Resistance. She hasn’t been forced into anything except situations, where it was up to her to make active choices about where she wants to take her life path.
We’ve been over this. Until the end of TLJ, she wasn’t trying to be a Jedi at all. She and Luke are very different.
No I don’t think it’s just Rey at all. That’s one of the biggest points of the final scene of TLJ, showing that this is a potential that lives in many (random people) throughout the galaxy. I hope TROS delves into this aspect in some regard.
In the larger sense, in terms of what I’m explaining, it’s my interpretation and I think it’s good that it’s left to interpretation. In my mind where Rey gets her powers from doesn’t matter so much as what she chooses to do with them.
You said she won the cosmic lottery. Lotteries are random. That means she was randomly chosen. That’s what that word means. And whether she was “chosen” or not is completely debatable.
Touché, but considering how virtuous, and perfect she is, I take back the cosmic lotery statement, and maintain she was chosen to be the hero:
“Darkness rises, and light to meet it.”
She is thus her destiny to be the defender of the light, not by choice.
That’s still your interpretation. It was someone’s destiny to defend the light. She made the choice to be that someone.
Hello! Do you think that the “awakening” Snoke felt in TFA happened in more than one person? Rey states in TLJ “something inside me has always been there, and now it has awake”. My interpretation is therefore that the force chose her, in a somewhat similar way it chose Anakin in the PT.
Maybe what you say is true, that the awakening happened in more people, “someone’s destiny to defend the light”, but it’s harder to support that claim than it is to support the claim that she was chosen. There’s been no evidence that the awakening of the light to match the dark happened in other people. Even Snoke in TLJ identified said awakening as her.
Anyway, food for thought.
Well it’s very open to interpretation. I think there’s a few ways you could look at it. That’s one way, sure. Another way is yes, the force awakened in many people (the end of TLJ could potentially support this). The way I tend to look at it is that Rey, in conjunction with her being in the right place at the right time, tapped into the force which then awakened in her. So kind of like there was this pent up force potential in the world and she grabbed onto it (when? I would say when she made the daring escape with the Falcon). Of course the light has always been there within her, as it is with many others who I would say have the potential but don’t find the situation or the strength to tap into it.
It’s baffling, I mean really it’s just simple math. 30 years for a creature that age is nothing. How different does one look at 87 years old vs. 90 years old?
At least the CGI Yoda looks like Yoda (even if the features are still off).
Reading the making of TPM book, this is a direct quote:
Stuart Freeborn’s original design was modified only slightly to make Yoda appear appropriately younger.
Um… sure.
I mean, props to them I guess for the effort, but if you edited this into ANH it’d look laughably out of place.
Disney released their entire slate for the next few years. They’re going to alternate releases of each Avatar and Star Wars every December (2021 Avatar 2, 2022 new Star Wars, 2023 Avatar 3, etc.).
I wonder if WB releasing Dune only a month earlier had anything to do with Disney pushing Avatar 2 back an entire year.
Really doubt that Disney would be worried that the sequel to (as of writing) the biggest movie ever will face rough competition against a remake of a box office flop directed by the guy who just made a long awaited sequel that turned out a box office flop (I’m really excited for it though). More likely than not James Cameron himself is delaying it (or, the same reason it’s been delayed for the last five years).
I really don’t see Avatar 2 being a big hit more than a decade after the first one. But yeah, I doubt Disney is worried about Denis Villeneuve’s Dune, which is unfortunate as I think he’s one of the best film directors working today. Blade Runner 2049 was easily my favorite movie of 2017 and the best recent release I’ve seen in a long time.
Well maybe it depends on your definition of big hit. I think it’s silly to think it won’t be big.
And I like Villeneuve too and thought BR2049 was great. Very much looking forward to Dune, which I should clarify I don’t think is a definite flop-to-be, just not a sure fire success.
Disney released their entire slate for the next few years. They’re going to alternate releases of each Avatar and Star Wars every December (2021 Avatar 2, 2022 new Star Wars, 2023 Avatar 3, etc.).
I wonder if WB releasing Dune only a month earlier had anything to do with Disney pushing Avatar 2 back an entire year.
Really doubt that Disney would be worried that the sequel to (as of writing) the biggest movie ever will face rough competition against a remake of a box office flop directed by the guy who just made a long awaited sequel that turned out a box office flop (I’m really excited for it though). More likely than not James Cameron himself is delaying it (or, the same reason it’s been delayed for the last five years).
I’d be surprised if Lucas didn’t do some second unit stuff as he did on ESB and ROTJ, only it’s been kept secret.
I’d highly doubt that. That’s quite a bit more work than just stopping by set to say hello or sitting down to have a conversation. The man’s retired after all, and he only did second unit on those films out of necessity.
Disney released their entire slate for the next few years. They’re going to alternate releases of each Avatar and Star Wars every December (2021 Avatar 2, 2022 new Star Wars, 2023 Avatar 3, etc.).
this seems like the appropriate place to leave this …https://www.wired.com/story/cantina-talk-84/?fbclid=IwAR1n48i6qvujd1uo5PfHP9akBNWo6EZiB8GdvSQPBdXQqj0EnCXccHBbhxg&mbid=social_fb&utm_brand=wired&utm_campaign=wired&utm_medium=social&utm_social-type=owned&utm_source=facebook be interesting to hear what people think …
I don’t believe this at all. These George Lucas rumors have been spreading for nearly every future Star Wars project.
This is not a rumor. It is fact. Abrams himself has stated, that they consulted Lucas while writing the script for TROS. He is the source in this instance.
I don’t think George’s input is as great as the media is making it out to be. The consultation probably went like this:
J.J. and Kathleen pitch George their idea for Ep. IX. George says, “yeah, sounds good.”Honestly, I don’t think you could pay the man enough to care at this point.
George is a talker and a big idea guy though. If they asked him, I doubt he’d just say “yeah whatever.” He’d probably have a whole lot to say. Whether or not any of that makes it into the film is a different question, but going to the source to discuss larger ideas and themes probably had some sort of effect.
Don’t forget too that George literally gave a piece on direction on the Solo set.
this seems like the appropriate place to leave this …https://www.wired.com/story/cantina-talk-84/?fbclid=IwAR1n48i6qvujd1uo5PfHP9akBNWo6EZiB8GdvSQPBdXQqj0EnCXccHBbhxg&mbid=social_fb&utm_brand=wired&utm_campaign=wired&utm_medium=social&utm_social-type=owned&utm_source=facebook be interesting to hear what people think …
I don’t believe this at all. These George Lucas rumors have been spreading for nearly every future Star Wars project.
It’s true, but the headline implies more than what it actually is. They had a meeting to discuss how they envisioned the overall saga and what Lucas thought about its ending. So I don’t know if “Lucas” worked on TROS script is really accurate, but he was consulted.
I don’t get it. SW is full of “anachronistic” dialogue. Especially anything Han has to say when he calls Leia “sister” in a very 70s way and references things like crop dusting.
People grew up with the OT so they don’t think twice about it.
Either that or apparently SW has never had sardonic or snarky humor, which I guess means I’ve been watching the wrong movies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXn8-meSd8g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj_wbpsE_wM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsEZLTE7JHE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn9a2C8yZEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwWsZQr7ZEk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlVl4r10rcA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXrBZnOIw7Q
One of the defining aspects of Star Wars is its apparent timelessness, both in its mythological themes and in its setting. It is designed to remove itself from the contemporary in order to access the universal in everyone, and this is probably why the humor is such a big point of contention for these new movies.
The first part is a given. I think what’s in question is the second part. Is the humor in the ST especially contemporary?
Comedy as a genre is notoriously difficult to sell to a wide audience because many jokes rely on the absurdity of specific things taken from contemporary culture. Poe’s jokey bit at the beginning of TLJ relies on an entire subgroup of crank call jokes, and while the joke isn’t new, it isn’t exactly ancient enough to disappear into this aforementioned universal experience. I think this is why the original trilogy rarely makes jokes, opting instead for more generalized situational humor and physical (often droid) comedy.
TL;DR Star Wars should be generally funny, but not not specifically jokey.
Bear with me here guys. I know it’s something about myself that I can tend to be contrarian, but I think there’s interesting things to be gained from a devil’s advocate perspective.
So that said, my question is does the humor of the scene rely solely on it being a contemporary cultural reference? Obviously it’s invoking crank calls, but is that really the joke? Isn’t there humor to the scene beyond that? Doesn’t the scene serve a narrative purpose beyond being a cultural reference? Poe is stalling Hux to charge up and help the Resistance escape, and the way he’s chosen to do that is by fucking with him, which I think is funny whether you’re aware of the concept of “prank calls” or not. So I’m not sure why it wouldn’t be considered situational humor.
This reminds me of a contentious joke from TFA, Han’s line about the trash compactor. People were/are mad because it’s a “meta” reference to a previous movie. But that kinda baffles me. Han was there in that trash compactor. That’s part of his life, he knows what kind of experience it’s like to be thrown in one. Why wouldn’t he suggest it? It’s an in character joke, something he would find funny too (as opposed to say Finn finding the ball Luke trained with, which Finn would not know the significance of so the moment only holds meaning from an outside audience winking perspective, or something like Obi-wan saying “you’re going to be the death of me” in AOTC).
I’m honestly curious about the response to the scene and I think it’s worth interrogating. Is it problematic because it’s too contemporary? Or is that one reason that people have latched on to for a scene that doesn’t work for them for potentially a variety of reasons? To that end, I have a question - those who don’t like the scene, did it make you laugh at all?
Honestly for me it makes me laugh, which I don’t think is nothing, even though I wouldn’t call it a perfect scene. If it doesn’t make you laugh I think that’s worth something too.
Is it really any worse than Leia saying Tarkin smells, to his face?
I think the difference here is Leia using language/phrasing that is less contemporary than what Poe uses.
Is “Hugs” especially contemporary though? I’m not sure I understand.
Nothing to do with the “hugs” thing. It’s the way the dialogue is written overall, and if you don’t see it, I’m not sure what to say. “Okay, I’ll hold” sounds like modern, quippy humor, while “I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board” could be from whenever and not feel out of place.
I don’t know, maybe it depends on your definition of quips. In my mind “modern quipy dialogue” is the all of avengers tossing out one liners every other line. I think people conflate that kind of humor with what’s going on in TLJ, which is a film with a lot of humor, sure, but just because it’s a lot of humor doesn’t mean it’s the same kind of humor.
The “foul stench” is a weird comparison is because it’s a very theatrical insult, in keeping with the haughty tone Leia has in that scene. Elsewhere in the film she and other characters have more casual “quips” that I think are comparable to what’s in TLJ. Honestly again it depends on your definition but I’m not even sure Poe saying “I’ll hold” is a quip? It’s a funny line but it’s not exactly him making a joke, he’s fucking with Hux and pretending he can’t hear.
I mean I’m getting into the minutiae of it but maybe the more offputting aspect of it is the way the scene plays out (Domhnall’s hammy reaction) and it’s length.
I only brought it up because I recall that line being groaned about in some magazines back in the day. Not sure why that and not Luke talking about Power Converters. 😉
Probably because you’re young and don’t remember a time before power converters were a common object.
I mean I can’t tell it’s not a problem just as much as you can’t tell me it is. I think we can agree it’s not “worst ever” territory though.
An aside, the “droid please” complaints remind me, I found a very similar phrase (“droid shut up,” spoken by Lando) in a SW comic from 1980 recently. Just something to think about (and the way Boyega delivers the line is nothing like how the phrase it’s supposedly pulled from is usually delivered).
I don’t see how you can’t see it, really, so it seems like we’re at an impasse on that one. “Okay, I’ll hold,” "skinny guy, kinda pasty, “I can hear you, can you hear me?” and “…about his mother” all scream “2010s snarky humor” to me.
Yes! “2010s snarky humor” is exactly what I was getting at!
Snarky humor is definitely very popular right now, no doubt, but it’s not exclusive to the 2010s by any means. I don’t see how it’s un-Star Wars to have a character who uses snarky humor. He certainly isn’t the first.
I don’t see how you can’t see it, really, so it seems like we’re at an impasse on that one. “Okay, I’ll hold,” "skinny guy, kinda pasty, “I can hear you, can you hear me?” and “…about his mother” all scream “2010s snarky humor” to me.
I don’t understand what’s specifically 2010s about those lines no. Didn’t Shakespeare write “your mother” jokes?
The contention is dialogue in a Star Wars movie shouldn’t feel dated by earth standards. It took place in a galaxy far far away.
I understand that concept I just don’t understand how this dialogue is especially contemporary.
Probably because you’re young and don’t remember a time before it was normal to tell someone you were willing to hold.
Are we supposed to pretend that Star Wars doesn’t exist in a universe with technology similar to that of phones? Is it really so out of place that the concept of “holding” feels too modern? Weird complaint to me honestly.
Is it really any worse than Leia saying Tarkin smells, to his face?
I think the difference here is Leia using language/phrasing that is less contemporary than what Poe uses.
Is “Hugs” especially contemporary though? I’m not sure I understand.
Nothing to do with the “hugs” thing. It’s the way the dialogue is written overall, and if you don’t see it, I’m not sure what to say. “Okay, I’ll hold” sounds like modern, quippy humor, while “I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board” could be from whenever and not feel out of place.
I don’t know, maybe it depends on your definition of quips. In my mind “modern quipy dialogue” is the all of avengers tossing out one liners every other line. I think people conflate that kind of humor with what’s going on in TLJ, which is a film with a lot of humor, sure, but just because it’s a lot of humor doesn’t mean it’s the same kind of humor.
The “foul stench” is a weird comparison is because it’s a very theatrical insult, in keeping with the haughty tone Leia has in that scene. Elsewhere in the film she and other characters have more casual “quips” that I think are comparable to what’s in TLJ. Honestly again it depends on your definition but I’m not even sure Poe saying “I’ll hold” is a quip? It’s a funny line but it’s not exactly him making a joke, he’s fucking with Hux and pretending he can’t hear.
I mean I’m getting into the minutiae of it but maybe the more offputting aspect of it is the way the scene plays out (Domhnall’s hammy reaction) and it’s length.
The contention is dialogue in a Star Wars movie shouldn’t feel dated by earth standards. It took place in a galaxy far far away.
I understand that concept I just don’t understand how this dialogue is especially contemporary.
Yeah I don’t understand.
Is it really any worse than Leia saying Tarkin smells, to his face?
I think the difference here is Leia using language/phrasing that is less contemporary than what Poe uses.
Yeah, she doesn’t say anything anachronistic or weird. It’d be like if she told Obi-wan in her message that she’d “catch him on the flip side” or something.
How is “I have an urgent message… about his mother” at all like “catch you on the flip side?”