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DominicCobb

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16-Aug-2011
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18-Oct-2019
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Post
#1301404
Topic
The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

I like that sequence of events, but I feel like cutting the Boushh/Chewbacca scene makes the Lapti Nek bit feel like a non sequitur that only exists as foreshadowing, as opposed to a lead-in to the Boushh scene that also functions as foreshadowing. Plus, including the Boushh scene gives Threepio something to do immediately after his capture, which gives more connective tissue between that and Leia freeing Han than just using Lapti Nek, where Threepio is just a bystander who doesn’t do anything.

You might be right.

RogueLeader said:

These are some great thoughts, Dom!

Honestly, I think ROTJ is in this weird place between being a part of the “holy” trilogy, but also being considered the weakest of three. Yes, you could edit it dramatically, and it has been before, but imo I feel like there isn’t really a definitive fan edit of ROTJ, just a few good ones that introduce some cool ideas. How much can you alter without something feeling missing?

I’ve been thinking about it a lot recently since I’ve been reading Rinzler’s Making of book, and all the parts about the earlier versions are so tantalizing. It’s funny because nearly most complaints about the film and many common edit ideas were in fact addressed in earlier drafts and story conferences (opening with the Emperor arriving, for instance, is an idea I swiped from there). The book is sort of an interesting study in trying to decipher for yourself “what went wrong?” I think many would agree the film is a big step down from the previous two. The question, when it comes to editing, is how do you fix that. I think the reason you don’t see a lot of ROTJ edits vs. PT or ST edits (despite many who think that quality-wise it is probably on par with more than one of those earlier films) is simply because we’re so used to it and because we all grew up with it. Sort of similar to now I feel like I’m seeing more people include moments in their PT edits that were never included before, just because the moments were too memorable. It’s hard imaging the film in a different way.

So, you’re suggesting opening with the Emperor scene, which honestly is a solid idea. I think the one think you lose is a slightly ominous opening for Vader, since the first time we see him in this version of events would just be in a wide shot of him kneeling down (unless you inserted a new first shot of him somehow). I like your IX related idea by the way! We definitely need to keep that in mind.

The shot of Vader walking down his shuttle ramp is one of my favorites, and there are some classic lines in there. But ultimately you have to ask yourself will cutting the scene make the film better? I think it might. Something that always bothered me too is Vader says “the Emperor is not as forgiving as I am,” which feels like a big set up, but we don’t see him make good on this in anyway. I think it could be worth keeping the earlier scene if there was some way to show the Emperor’s wrath - I always thought we should have seen him take out his anger on Vader, electrocuting him. Not sure if there’s any way to accomplish that.

You’d probably also want to cut the business with the clearance codes and the shield and all that. Obviously it’s set up for later but I don’t think it’s necessary and it just starts the film off with boring dialogue.

If you cut the first Boushh scene, I think Leia & Wicket should be kept, at the very least to not make this film less than two hours long.

This is something that I struggled with a lot when I was getting into fan edits at first, but honestly sometimes there’s nothing you can do. My PT edits are all under two hours. I wish it could be helped, but I’d prefer to worry about runtime second.

The deleted scenes would be cool to add, but it just seem infeasible to add them seamlessly. And I think Luke’s introduction in the film is great as-is, and putting Dagobah stuff earlier would just ruin that mystique.

Well for me, if you’re not removing the hologram, it’s sort of like what’s the point. The other idea is that you get to imply Luke has been training with Yoda in the interim (which would explain his change in character). But I’m not really for the change anymore, myself.

Good idea putting the first throne room scene in place of where the Emeror’s first scene originally was. I also think graphics could be added to those weirdly blank view screens that could be relevant to some potential ST-foreshadowing as well, but not sure what exactly that could be yet.

You definitely need to cut back to the real bad guys in that moment, and if the Emperor’s arrival is being moved up, it’s actually quite fortunate that this scene exists to take it’s place and basically serve as a reminder. Otherwise it’s a scene I’d suggest cutting because it’s mostly pointless.

Post
#1301398
Topic
The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

This, in my mind, would be the ideal restructure of ROTJ

  • Crawl
  • Emperor arrives
  • Droids go to and enter palace, talk with Bib
  • Droids go to the dungeon and speak with EV-9D9
  • Lapti Nek, Oola falls into rancor pit
  • Leia unfreezes Han, captured
  • Luke arrives, fights rancor
  • Sail barge assault
  • Emperor speaks with Vader in his throne room (a scene I probably would have cut if not for the Emperor’s arrival being shifted earlier)
  • Luke on Dagobah
  • Then basically the rest plays out as normal

There are a few things I struggle with. A very popular idea is to put the Luke on Dagobah scenes at the start of the film. I like this a lot, because it opens the film with a bit more of that darker TESB vibe which should subtlety alter the tone for the whole film (whereas it’s otherwise just lost in the middle of mostly goofiness). The issues with this, however, is first of all that makes the film even slower to start, and adds a complication with Luke meeting up with the alliance later.

The “easy” solution, in my mind, is reinstating the ‘Vader contacts Luke’ deleted scene, which should carry a similar sort of feel (to make ROTJ seem a bit more apiece with where TESB left off). However, I don’t really think it’s feasible to get that scene into a decent enough quality to use. Same goes for the other great deleted moment, the sandstorm, which would be even harder to incorporate.

My other big problem with my cuts is that I worry I’ll short change Leia, what between the Boushh removal and my other long favored cut, the removal of her scene with Wicket. Seems a shame to cut down on what is already so slight a role for her, but it’s not like the two scenes add much, character-wise. I guess if I’m really struggling with it, the Boushh scene is the one to keep, since we get a pretty badass moment from her with the thermal detonator. But again I worry about the pacing of that first third of the film. Maybe trims in addition to scene removals would help.

Post
#1301396
Topic
The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

RogueLeader said:

Really? I like the Boushh scenes. So the first time you see Boushh/Leia, she’d just be sneaking into Jabba’s palace at night?

I don’t have an issue one way or another with the Boushh scene, but when looking at ways to cut down the Jabba’s palace section, it is the first that comes to mind, as the main thing it establishes (prisoned Chewie) can be explained with 3PO’s line. Yes you do end up with Boushh’s first moment being sneaking around at night, but I’m not sure that’d feel too weird. I guess you also probably have to find a place to sneak in a shot of Lando since that scene has his reveal.

As far removing Luke’s message, i’d probably play around with potential subtitle options for Bib and/or Jabba, depending on how far the droids get. Because I could see them reaching Jabba and him rejecting them there.

Im in my head following the sequence of events, if one was to cut out the droids speaking with Jabba entirely. Then your first scene with him would be the Lapti Nek -> trap door sequence, which one could argue would be a stronger intro to the character. The main thing you’d lose though I guess is the establishment of Han’s carbonate block on the wall. I guess you’d have to insert a full on shot of it during Lapti Nek. I wonder if that works or is too small, but either way you’d probably want to get rid of 3PO’s captain obvious observation exposition.

The problem for me is the movie takes so long to pick up. You have the first scene with Vader, which basically accomplishes nothing. The droids enter Jabba’s palace, which is somewhat interesting, but it’s pretty drawn out and dialogue heavy (first walking to the palace, then outside the door, then in the main hallway, then talking to Jabba, then talking to EV-9D9 in the droid dungeon, etc.). Ideally in my mind you’d want to get rid of at least one of those scenes. Maybe if you want to keep Jabba you could lose the Bib moment or the droid torture (in my head I always thought to get rid of the latter). But the more I think about removing the Jabba scene, the more I like it (and removing the whole “gift” aspect makes the droid torture dungeon more interesting an threatening, in a way, since we don’t know what they’re going to do with them).

Outside of the Jabba stuff, the other idea I have for the opening is in regards to that Vader scene. If it doesn’t accomplish anything, why not star the film with the Emperor’s arrival? Isn’t it sort of redundant to have two arrival scenes anyway? It would start the film off on a more exciting and monumental note.

Rise of Skywalker speculation below

I’m stealing someone’s idea here (don’t remember who), but what if the Emperor’s shuttle had a red stripe instead of a slightly darker grey one? And, if were making his arrival the opening, what if the Star Destroyer he’s coming from also has a red stripe? It’s my understanding that in the TROS teaser, you can faintly see a red stripe on an old Star Destroyer. The speculation being, is this something that is affiliated Palpatine himself, considering his apparent return? If so, this could be a way to tie the trilogies together.

Post
#1301383
Topic
The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

RogueLeader said:

I might try to make an example later and see what it might look like.

If that doesn’t work or seems too different, another option could be to remove a few segmented panels out of the dish itself, which might achieve a more subtle change that it could still make it feel incomplete. Although it might be less effective than completely removing the dish, it’s a potential middle ground.

Regarding the Luke hologram, I think how you handle it sort of depends on your interpretation of Luke’s plan. Do you want to keep the fact that Luke gifted the droids to Jabba, since it implies he wanted to get R2 in there? Or maybe he was betting on Jabba just keeping the droids for himself.

Could the message just be R2 beeping a bit to them (maybe with 3PO chiming in with surprise that they’re the gift, rather than the hologram. Then, you could add/change Jabba and Bib’s subtitles to provide the context: Luke wants to bargain for Solo’s life and he is gifting the droid’s as a token of good will.

Yes there’s probably a couple different ways you could do it.

As for Luke’s plan, that’s never going to make sense. It’s probably worth pointing out that the original idea was that Luke needed to bring them out into the open on the sail barge because staging an escape/rescue in the palace would’ve been supposedly nearly impossible. That’s really the only explanation for what goes down but I can’t think of anyway to spell that out, so we’re left with what we’re left with. The question then becomes, do you want it to seem like things are going according to the plan or not? I sort of lean towards wanting it to seem like things just keep going wrong (bit more exciting), but they’re able to pull it out in the end (whether the set backs were planned or not being ambiguous). To that end, of the options I tend to think that the “gift” aspect should be left out, as should the scene where Leia/Boushh gives Jabba Chewbacca - so when we first see Chewie he’s already a prisoner (this is a pretty common edit idea, which is helped by the fact that 3PO has a line of dialogue that basically sets this up).

Of course the other thing propelling such changes is the fact that the Jabba’s palace section is just interminably long, so cutting out at least a couple scenes would do it a lot of good.

Post
#1301376
Topic
The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

RogueLeader said:

Maybe something like this could fill that gap instead. The one thing I like about this idea is that it doesn’t really take away from the Death Star II’s iconic silhouette, and instead it could actually add to its ‘incomplete’ look, as well as differentiate it more from the first Death Star’s design.

Yeah, exactly.

Are you wanting to remove Luke’s hologram in order to save our first look at him for when he actually appears later in the film?

Yeah, exactly. Truly a baffling decision to make up such a big reveal but completely undercut it.

Post
#1301345
Topic
The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Something that I don’t think I ever really got when I was a kid is that we’re supposed to be surprised that the Death Star II is operational. Obviously there’s lines of dialogue that set this up, but when you’re young you pay more attention to the visuals (at least I did), and while visually the second Death Star is incomplete, the weapon part of it is not.

So basically my idea is, what if the Death Star II is missing its dish? So we think there’s no possible way it could fire. But then, suddenly, it fires anyway (out of the recess that should hold the dish).

On a separate ROTJ note, does anyone have any idea how to have the droids get taken by Jabba without playing Luke’s hologram? Could you just cut from them entering the palace to being in the droid torture dungeon? Would that make sense? Maybe recut the scene with Bin Fortuna and add subtitles saying basically “yeah right an audience with Jabba, you two are ours now.”

Post
#1301054
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>720p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Time

doubleofive said:

Matt.F said:

I suspect this is probably well known, but something I just read today that the escape pod shot used several times in Spaceballs is actually unused footage shot for Star Wars.

I know there was a bit of talk about the escape pod shot earlier in the thread so thought perhaps this might be worth sharing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=EfkNvOOiZ_8

I’ve never heard this before and I’m not sure I believe it. The escape pod shot in ANH is well-known as being the first shot completed, and nothing about the Spaceballs design resembles anything else in Star Wars.

I thought the first completed shot was a Death Star turret firing? Your point stands regardless, of course.

Post
#1300510
Topic
STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>NOW IN PRODUCTION</strong>
Time

sans_fi said:

Inspired by Sir Ridley, I thought to myself, What if I projected the image of the Death Star into a proper sphere that had the correct volumes of the superlaser, the trench, and the cuts in the surface as the Death Star II?

Here is a broad test. It allows you to move the view slightly. At some point you start seeing the trick, but it could be a nice tool to get static different points of views (by reparing the image a little) or to get slight movement like Sir Ridley suggested.

https://youtu.be/jkrWhBfGcBg

This is pretty cool. The only things you have to keep an eye on though are the shadows (which don’t move) and the lights (which appear to move independently of the place they should be attached).

Post
#1300380
Topic
Last movie seen
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

It’s much more effective as a character study of a religious man having a crisis of faith and being forced to literally confront it head-on.

Perhaps this is why I like it so much. Horror movies have never really been something that have ‘scared’ me, so I always have a hard time judging that aspect of them. But The Exorcist is one of the best horror films beyond the scares, which makes it one of my favorites. Probably why I usually gravitate to something like Jaws as my all time favorite horror movie.

Post
#1300244
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

act on instinct said:

I haven’t looked very deeply into the making of TLJ but at some point I was led to believe the original cut was longer and some scenes were moved around at some point. Not atypical but I did personally find the final pacing odd, maybe tightening the already longest episode so far in the saga accounts for some of the character motivations not feeling perfectly in sync for everyone? Depending on how things were moved.

All films have an initial cut that’s longer than the finished product. With TLJ, though, it’s easier to see what was cut due to the fact that they actually included most (if not all) of the deleted scenes on the BD, and you can also easily tell how far into the process they were cut by how finished the effects are. As well, some of the deleted scenes clue you into earlier, different sequencing of the film (like, originally cutting back to Leia and the Resistance after Rey explains the situation to Luke, rather than staying with them on the island).

As for the final result, because those scenes are available, you can pretty much decide for yourself if tightening it up hurt or helped.

Post
#1300147
Topic
TFA: A Gentle Restructure
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Surely that was intended to her mother or father, right?

For all the ‘everything is canon now’ hype, it still seems that TLJ really massaged and ignores some of the details from the TFA novelization.

I don’t mind that it does, but they just shouldn’t insist it was going to be otherwise.

I think the novelization is the exception though right?

Post
#1300090
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Broom Kid said:

The First Order is the new order he’s talking about. He’s already part of it, and now he’s running it. He wants her to join him so they can run it together.

This. He’s the Supreme Leader now. How else would he stir shit up and rule the galaxy if he didn’t have an empire he was in control of?

But also this

ChainsawAsh said:

Rey rejecting him, right? I thought that was pretty clear.

Rey’s rejection is definitely a set back. In a way it perhaps mirrors Anakin’s proposal to Padme to overthrow the Emperor and take over the galaxy. Once she says no, it takes a toll. Looks like this will likely be explored in TROS.

Post
#1300089
Topic
Star Wars Resistance
Time

Tobar said:

Interestingly, for some reason they’ve uploaded the first episode of season 2 to Youtube for free:
Into the Unknown | Star Wars Resistance

Are the ratings for it that bad?

I mean they might be, but this wouldn’t really be an indication. It’s a fairly common marketing tactic these days (I believe they even did the same thing with the first episode of season 1).

Post
#1299484
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

act on instinct said:

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

I thought Jabba was well developed for a slimy piece of worm ridden filth. 😉

I agree, he was as developed as his role required.

And this is not what I feel from Maz

I’m not sure I understand why, and I definitely don’t agree, but fair enough if you feel that way.

Post
#1299405
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

TLJ definitely had overnight screenings in my area. I mean, understand that theaters will add more screenings according to demand. In my area there was enough demand to keep some theaters open 72 hours. But movies don’t necessarily automatically just make more money if they add screenings at 3am, only if the demand is high enough that people are willing to go at that time.

Post
#1299402
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

act on instinct said:

Agree shoehorned is the wrong way to put it, but these side characters really have only had about the same development going into the third film as maybe Jabba or Greedo from the OT, I want to connect, but I feel like I’m seeing more concepts of characters than full bodied established ones, I really need to see IX to declare one way or the other on a lot of the new characters.

I mean there’s only so much time and so many characters. Seems reasonable that some would end up with smaller roles and less development (like Greedo and Jabba).

Post
#1299379
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Broom Kid said:

IIRC she said she wanted to be the mo-cap character? I remember her giving an interview before the movie came out where someone basically said the same thing to her and she was like “I wanted to try this type of acting, because it seemed like a rare opportunity, especially for something like Star Wars.” I might be misremembering that, but I do remember thinking something similar before I was told she really wanted to do it, and was surprised.

I think that and she explicitly said she wanted to do mo-cap characters for a bit in big name movies (this and Jungle Book) because she didn’t want people watching a family movie and remembering her role from 12 Years a Slave.

Personally I don’t really get the shoehorned complaints for TLJ. To me, being shoehorned in means having a role that fills no purpose. Maz’s role in TLJ was short and served an understandable, narrative purpose. Considering she wouldn’t have really fit anywhere in TLJ’s story, I thought her cameo was pretty much the one way to include her that wouldn’t have felt shoehorned in. As for TROS, considering we know officially nothing at all about her role, it seems weird to declare one way or another.

Post
#1299126
Topic
Best viewing order to introduce Star Wars to children?
Time

It depends though on how you are with kids. My parents and others were constantly introducing me to movies, so being sat down to watch a big deal movie was never a problem. When I got into my teenage years was when I started discovering things for myself, which is great in its own way, but I’m forever thankful that I was introduced to specific movies as a kid.

Anyway, release order is certainly the best way to do it. But there’s definitely an argument to be made that seeing TROS in theaters is something you won’t want them to miss, in which case you could skip the prequels and spin-offs and etc. to expedite the process.

Post
#1299102
Topic
The Marvel Cinematic Universe
Time

SilverWook said:

Arguably, he already killed millions if not billions of people before getting the stones. Gamora’s home planet for example. This is no Would you kill baby Hitler? conundrum.

Not just that but he and his army were literally in the process of trying to kill the heroes and destroy the Earth (and he does the exact same snap as the previous Thanos, only unsuccessfully because he didn’t realize there were no stones).

That said, considering you can do apparently anything with all the stones, it is odd that Tony chose to the same sort of snap decimation that Thanos did.

Post
#1298792
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

NeverarGreat said:

RogueLeader said:

This is somewhat related to discussion regarding the opening crawl we’ve been having on Nevarar’s TFA thread, but I wanted to move this conversation over here since it isn’t necessarily just about his edit. I wanted to have a conversation regarding how the politics in the films reflect real-life politics, and how this perspective can affect one’s approach to editing the Sequel Trilogy.

The political situations in the previous films seem to reflect real-life American politics in very general ways. In the OT, the Empire was America. Nixon was the Emperor. The rebellion was like the Viet Cong or the objectors/protestors in America, like the hippie movement.

In the prequels, George made parallels between Nute Gunray and Newt Gingrich, Bush and Vader and Cheney and Palpatine. Seeing a democracy become a dictatorship. “You’re with us, or you’re with the terrorists”.

In the sequels, what could that parallel be?
The rise of nationalism and the alt-right?
The election of Donald Trump?
So, which angle to by which to handle the New Republic would fit most appropriately with a contemporary American political analogy?

American politics seem totally divided between two sides. The idea that the Republic has been split into two parties, one allied to Old Republic ideology vs another that wants to restore Imperial strength, would seem to reflect the total division of the Democratic and Republican parties today (in a more extreme away obviously). The “death” of the New Republic could parallel the democrats losing the 2016 election and leading to the political upheaval we’ve see on a daily basis the past few years.

Not trying to say this interpretation is fact. George openly made liberal parallels with his films, so I figure it would be appropriate to strengthen similar parallels that are in the sequels as well.
And you can make parallels between the GFFA and the US, but the rise of nationalism globally has been a major talking point in recent years, so the ST fitting with that in a general sense fits too.

So I guess the question boils down to how the opening crawls could be worded (or things in the films themselves) to match this metaphor? Should the First Order be an open “nationalist” movement or be something hiding in the shadows and then striking from the cover of darkness? Should the Republic be trying, but struggling, to deal with this movement, or are they not taking it as seriously as they should be? I’d like to get suggestions that consider the real-life parallels.

What makes the most sense for the ST, in regards to how the OT and PT also reflected the real-life politics of their times?

I’m liking the way Nev is currently leaning with his, but I just wanted to carry that discussion over to here in order to talk about it more generally.

I hope that this discussion doesn’t run afoul of the new-ish political rules of this forum, but I definitely had worldwide rightwing movements in mind when trying to write the crawl. As you say, it was already an aspect of the originals so it made sense to continue that tradition. This paragraph in particular is probably the closest I’ve dared come to making an explicit reference to American politics:

In his absence, leaders from a thousand worlds have forsaken the fragile Republic in favor of the IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER, which has vowed to return strength to the galaxy through the designs of the once mighty Empire.

Yeah I mean, that’s a pretty good way of getting as close as you possibly can to “Make the Galaxy Great Again.”