DominicCobb

captainsolo said:

ROTJ has less intricate lighting for sure and you can tell there was less time spent on it especially in Imperial set interiors. The film stock is improved but it never has the wow factor of SW or ESB despite being made by a team of two of the best British cameramen then working. I’d chalk it up to production interference and a lack of desire to be artistic like ESB because George hated spending all the time and money on that film when they could just do it fast.

The Making of book has some possible answers. Marquand talks about how often the set up would get thrown out the window because George would add cameras. Lucas is very much a ‘figure it out in the edit’ kind of guy, and he wanted a lot of coverage on the film, and would often add them to set ups himself and tell Marquand “don’t worry about it.” Sometimes this meant up to five cameras shooting at once, if I’m remembering correctly. This leads of course to some flat lighting and also some cameras being forced to change their position or composition so that the other cameras didn’t end up in the frame.

jarbear said:

The main issue with have Kylo be the killer of her parents doesn’t really help with anything in my mind personally.

His goal is to have Rey on his side. Would using the direction of “Oh yeah, I killed Han Solo, my father who you liked. Also, I tried to kill Luke Skywalker … but too bad he was a Force Hologram. Oh yeah, I killed your parents too. Wanna join me and make out?”

I just … don’t see how that helps with anything with whatever motivation the route a person wants to go.

I was about to post the same thing. I’m not sure what is gained by the idea.

NeverarGreat said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

RogueLeader said:

krausfadr said:

If I’m able to seamlessly add some Kylo dialogue then I would like to also have Kylo admit he’s the one who killed Rey’s parents.

I’m surprised you want to make this change. I felt it was one of the worst plot points from Colin’s draft.

C’mon, you just want to keep the idea of Rey’s parents selling her for the sole purpose of getting drinking money!

As I’ve said before, from a purely logistical stance it’s laughable that in a twenty mile radius of Jakku desert we have the Millennium Falcon, the map to Luke, and the granddaughter of Palpatine/powerful Force sensitive whose parents were personally killed by Kylo Ren, with all of these things finding their way to the planet entirely coincidentally.

Not to mention it’s the site of the final battle of the Galactic Civil War.

pleasehello said:

So Rey is the daughter of Palpatine’s clone, making her more akin to his daughter rather than his granddaughter?

I’m assuming this novelization is just a desperate attempt to make sense of the movie rather than the movie being a watered-down version of the book, yes?

Probably a little of both, and it’s hard to say what’s what.

RogueLeader said:

But depending on how you frame it, that could be the point. TFA and TLJ definitely play into the idea of the cycle of good and evil, and even though you can’t destroy evil forever, that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth fighting against it.

So it actually might make more sense that there’s always a chance that Palpatine, who is basically the personification of evil in Star Wars, could always return.

I recall Dom having an idea of changing his last line to something like, “I have died before” and Rey saying, “I’ll be waiting.” (Or have them say nothing at all). Basically playing into that idea of people needing to be ever vigilant against the rise of evil.

Yes. The question is just how to accomplish.

RogueLeader said:

Yes! That’s what it was. Wasn’t Kylo just in a random hallway?

Yep. Staring at the wall.

FreezingTNT2 said:

Speaking of which, Palpatine should not order Kylo to kill Rey in this movie, because in reality he actually wants Rey to be brought to him.

That’s exactly what RL was talking about in the post you quoted trying to correct him.

They had a force phone call.

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

I understand your point of view. It is kind of hypocritical that TLJ fans constantly say, “You just didn’t like TLJ because your fan theories didn’t come true!” while simultaneously making fan theories about TROS and being upset when they don’t come true.

Incorrect. For instance, thinking Rey should be a nobody in TROS wasn’t a “theory.” It was a fact that was established in TLJ that they reversed. That’s completely different.

In the same way thinking Luke should be the son of a Great Fallen Jedi wasn’t a “theory”, but a fact that was established in ANH that they reversed?

I mean yeah they’re both retcons. But I’d argue, while one deepens and complicates the character’s journey midway through, the other cheapens, diminishes, and reorients the character’s journey right as it’s supposed to be reaching its conclusion.

Besides how stupid Rey Palpatine is, there’s a big difference between doing it in part 2 and part 3. Once you’re 2/3 of the way into a story, you can’t change it that drastically and expect people to think it works.

I disagree. It’s just different ways of telling the story. You could have told an amazing story about avenging one’s death, which would have fundamentally changed Star Wars but would still have worked fine (see: John Wick, ok maybe that’s not a good example but you get the point).

Well I don’t mean to suggest it didn’t change the story, but Luke’s goal was never about avenging his father, it was following in his footsteps. So the change doesn’t throw it off the tracks so much as complicate the goal and what it means. His final challenge would have still been ‘defeating evil,’ it just would have been as simple as defeating Vader.

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

I understand your point of view. It is kind of hypocritical that TLJ fans constantly say, “You just didn’t like TLJ because your fan theories didn’t come true!” while simultaneously making fan theories about TROS and being upset when they don’t come true.

Incorrect. For instance, thinking Rey should be a nobody in TROS wasn’t a “theory.” It was a fact that was established in TLJ that they reversed. That’s completely different.

In the same way thinking Luke should be the son of a Great Fallen Jedi wasn’t a “theory”, but a fact that was established in ANH that they reversed?

I mean yeah they’re both retcons. But I’d argue, while one deepens and complicates the character’s journey midway through, the other cheapens, diminishes, and reorients the character’s journey right as it’s supposed to be reaching its conclusion.

Besides how stupid Rey Palpatine is, there’s a big difference between doing it in part 2 and part 3. Once you’re 2/3 of the way into a story, you can’t change it that drastically and expect people to think it works.

idir_hh said:

Problem is they ended up explaining it.
In a book…

Who cares? The explanation doesn’t change anything, whether it’s in a book or the movie.

Truthfully I think they knew (rightly) that no explanation would really satisfy anyone so better to not waste time and leave it mysterious. The problem isn’t that they didn’t explain it, the problem is that they did it at all.

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

I understand your point of view. It is kind of hypocritical that TLJ fans constantly say, “You just didn’t like TLJ because your fan theories didn’t come true!” while simultaneously making fan theories about TROS and being upset when they don’t come true.

Incorrect. For instance, thinking Rey should be a nobody in TROS wasn’t a “theory.” It was a fact that was established in TLJ that they reversed. That’s completely different.

NeverarGreat said:

I never interested the final scene as Rey forever being the Last Jedi. She only came there to end off the saga. After looking into the binary sunrise (symbolizing a new beginning) Rey will go back to her friends and hopefully rebuild the Jedi Order.

I agree with this. I’ve never understood the argument that “Rey ends the movie on Tatooine, therefore she’s going to spend the rest of her life there!” She was just going there to bury the sabers at Luke’s childhood home. After that she’ll probably go back to the Resistance and continue the Jedi legacy.

Obviously I don’t think Rey will stay on Tatooine in universe, the issue is with the imagery of ending her story here. It sends a subconscious message about her continued isolation that I don’t think was intentional but nevertheless undercuts the effect of the previous scene.

It’s a very poorly thought out scene. Part of me thinks they wanted to say something along the lines of ‘she has returned to a life of semi-isolation, but now she’s okay with it because she’s sure of herself’ or something. But honestly I don’t think they thought it that much through.

OutboundFlight said:

I think the issue is a lot of people wanted “Rey Solana” to be the message. That anyone can be a Jedi. TROS keeps this idea but renames it, now anyone can be a Skywalker. It actually builds on the themes of the TLJ, where Luke Skywalker was a legend. Now, anyone can be a legend.

The problem is TROS is very much the watered down, on the nose version of the preexisting message. They didn’t think we would get it without spelling out to us that “some things are more important than blood” and having Rey name herself Skywalker. Of course this is why they felt the need to make her a Palpatine at all, because they thought her overcoming being a nobody was too nuanced a concept. But really the change hurts the integrity of not just the character but the message itself. Anyone can be a hero, but only if you’re lucky enough to be part of a powerful bloodline.

FreezingTNT2 said:

DominicCobb said:

Again, that’s the point.

The point of what? The entire Disney trilogy?

Yes.

Also, why shouldn’t Rey be a Skywalker (whether she is Luke’s or Leia’s kid) if this saga is centered around the Skywalker family?

Pretty simple really. In the films, the Skywalkers are the central heroes. The ST is about how the legacy of the Skywalkers and their heroic example will live on beyond their deaths. They drive this point home by having a non-Skywalker assume the name and the duties. The message being ‘anyone can be a Skywalker/hero.’

So they’re confirming that publishing’s “Project Luminous” campaign will indeed be about the High Republic. In my mind that means that the rumors that the next trilogy will take place in this timeframe are probably false/misreported. Part of the beauty of setting a film in that time would be a blank slate, so I doubt any filmmaker would want to be strapped down by preexisting books and such. There’s always the chance of course that the films and books would be interconnected, but if that was the case they wouldn’t be releasing the books two years before the films.

nl0428 said:

pleasehello said:

nl0428 said:

This might be ambitious and may not be something to do, but would you consider asking help from someone very talented and experienced with DeepFakes to fix Leia in the flashback scene. She looks too much like her character model in Battlefront II in there.

That’s Carrie Fisher’s actual face from Jedi, not CGI. I don’t know how an amateur could make it look better using deepfake technology.

It didn’t look like they merged archived material for that scene. If that’s true, could you tell me which scene from Return of the Jedi they pulled her face from? Was it when she was struggling to tell Han that her and Luke were related?

Yes that’s it.

It’s in a pretty fitting location anyway, right by the USC campus and in a park with a handful of other museums.

And, admittedly selfishly, being in LA will make it much easier for me to visit!

I think you made the best argument for it, which is that doing it actually doesn’t change much. I’ve even considered cutting out the Vader suit stuff in my own ROTS edit. What you’d be doing is making it into a ‘Palpatine is Sidious’ kind of reveal, where most people either know or could easily put two and two together, but some might end up surprised.

This is all very cool. I’ll probably have more thoughts later but for now I’ll just chime in in regards to the “save the reveal” potential by saying that, if you’re hiding the fact that Anakin becomes Vader, but you still show him turning to the dark side, you’re not really “saving the reveal.” That’s at least half the twist.

snooker said:

Oh! Can you cut Finn’s obvious crush on Rey? Is it possible?

We do lose that wonderful argument before Hux’s hero moment, but i think it can be lost.

This is something I’m definitely considering. I had hoped there might be a scene that fixed this on the BD (explaining how he wanted to tell her he had the Force), but since that doesn’t exist, and the storyline is only resolved through implication alone in the film, it might be better to ditch.

jarbear said:

Well, fair enough if you like the skipping stuff. To each their own. I just can’t get around the idea it breaks the very “rules” in Star Wars as well as bypassing what happened in the last movie about the whole “tracking thing” that needed the power of Star Destroyers to track people but now its in each TIE fighter and they can simply follow anyone they want? Also the thing about needing NAV computers to plot out courses since you would run into stuff and Poe jumps how many times with no problem?

Personally I don’t really see how it breaks any rules. They say jumping to lightspeed without proper calculations is dangerous, and in this scene we see the danger. “Rules” in a universe like this only exist to serve the story.

As far as the tracking, it seems like a natural progression that they’d upgrade everything they have with the ability.

pleasehello said:

Where are you going to source the trailer shots you intend on using? Do they exist in high bit-rate form somewhere?

I found this website which seems like it’ll help: https://thedigitaltheater.com/category/movie-trailers/lossless-movie-trailers/

Although I believe they only have the three main trailers, so if there ends up being anything in the TV spots or anything I want to use I’ll have to find something else.

RogueLeader said:

I’m digging your cut list. I think the biggest thing to help make Rey Nobody work is figure out how to rework Kylo Ren’s dialogue.

After coming up with a rough idea of how to accomplish Rey Nobody after my first two viewings, on my third watch I closely looked to see what was needed. I may change my mind when I see the film again, but my thought was that it’d actually be fairly straightforward with minimal need for new dialogue.

stevepaynter said:

There have been discussions of using the Duel of the Fates theme during the Rey and Kylo lightsaber fight on the Death Star wreckage. Is this something you would consider adding to your list?

I was just discussing this. I suspect the epicness of the cue wouldn’t fit the short scene. Though I’ll definitely try it and see how it looks.

With Rey being a nobody does this mean she no longer takes on the Skywalker name? When Rey is on Tatooine at the end and the old hag asks Rey for a surname she says “Just Rey”. This would mean a movie title change as well.

I think the Skywalker scene still fits. As long as I’m cutting out any suggestion that her parents were nice and “strong,” I feel her taking another name might actually fit better than in the theatrical cut. I like the “Just Rey” idea, but I’m skeptical that you could make it work.

FreezingTNT2 said:

There is a shot of the Millennium Falcon in hyperspace in the teaser.

That’s right, I believe it isn’t in the film.

jarbear said:

As for the “skipping,” I am curious about your direction here. The whole things was just … ack.

Very simple answer: I like it.

snooker said:

Find a way to make Finn and Poe more gay and I’ll be happy with the movie.

If only.

If you’re looking for someone to remove the lesbian kiss, you’ve come to the wrong place. If it was a man and woman kissing, no one would say it was for an agenda. Obvious double standard. It’s unfortunate that the queerness isn’t more integrated, and the moment is obviously just throwing a bone, but LFL/JJ patting themselves on the back aside, it’s about damn time, and this small moment (which feels natural) is better than nothing.

RogueLeader said:

Was the track “The Last Saber Duel” used at all during that battle? I assume it was meant for that scene? I think it would be interesting to take snippets from Duel of the Fates, Battle of the Heroes, and The Last Saber Duel. I think a combination of those tracks would be fun to hear.

I believe it was, yes. Not sure if in full, though definitely the majority of it was (it comes in during the final stage of the duel when Kylo walks through the crashing waves I think).

Personally I agree with Williams that it was right to cut the music during the duel. As it’s edited, it’s pretty short so it’d feel odd if it was accompanied with an epic, climactic cue like Duel of the Fates. But I’d still be curious to see how it played with that music.