DominicCobb

Handman said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

Handman said:

Thank you for your lovely responses. Excellent discussion.

You’re not helping yourself. I’m willing to entertain an actual discussion with you but this post isn’t doing anything to quell my suspicions that you don’t really have much in the way of a legitimate argument.

In his defense, it sounded like your only real argument was that we have yet to see it in a Star Wars film, so let’s include it.

Exactly.

Nope it’s just there’s no reason not to. If Episode VIII is going to have a romantic relationship (which is likely if you look at the structure of the Star Wars trilogies and really second acts in general), it would realistically be between characters we already know, preferably two of the main three new leads (Rey, Finn, and Poe). Many would look at the possibilities from a traditional, Hollywood perspective (Rey/Finn or Rey/Poe?). But a more interesting perspective, one that reflected the real life landscape of human sexuality, would also consider Finn/Poe. With Rey off doing Jedi stuff and Finn and Poe already having some strong chemistry, to me, it just makes sense (not to mention the fact that we may finally get a female lead that doesn’t have to be in a romantic relationship).

Handman said:

Since you asked.

DominicCobb said:
I know it’s name calling but it’s kind of true. How the actual fuck is a gay relationship pandering?

Most gay characters I have seen simply say “Look at me, I’m gay, remember that?” and don’t have much character beyond that. I would like that to not happen in Star Wars, and I doubt if they wanted to focus on gay relationships that we would get much more than that.

If it’s a Finn/Poe relationship that wouldn’t be an issue. Clearly those characters have more going on than just their sexuality.

TFA already set up two male characters with a strong bond. There’s nothing to say that they can’t be homo or bi sexual and end up in a relationship. Assuming they’re heterosexual is just heteronormativity which is a type of homophobia.

I assume people are asexual until shown otherwise. I’d prefer not seeing any sexual relations at all in a fantasy-adventure. It’s mostly irrelevant.

Fair enough, but Star Wars is a franchise with a history of romantic relationships. It’s fair to assume we’ll see more. Personally, I don’t have an issue with it. A lot of great fantasy-adventure stories have an element of romance.

Your last sentence is crazy, though. Assuming someone is heterosexual is homophobic? The vast majority of people are heterosexual, I don’t think it’s that big a leap to assume.

It’s not about assuming someone is heterosexual, it’s about assuming everyone is heterosexual. I didnt word it very well. It’s okay to assume Finn and Poe are straight, but to say that they can’t be homo or bi because of that initial assumption is preposterous (not saying you said this at all, I’ve just read it elsewhere).

And if you were gay, do you think a gay relationship in Star Wars would feel like pandering? No, in fact, after 7 gayless episodes (C-3PO and Obi-Wan ambiguity not withstanding) it would feel like Star Wars is finally showing a relationship that you could relate to.

You assume that gay people cannot relate to relationships that are not gay. That’s as absurd as saying I can’t relate to Lando because he’s black.

I’m not saying that. I just think Star Wars should be more inclusive. The fact that in the entire galaxy, across the span of 7 films, there’s is not one gay character or relationship feels very exclusionary. Right now, in terms of sexuality, Star Wars portrays a rather narrow view.

Less “relate to” and more “reflect more closely the world you know and your experiences.” It’s more a matter of representation.

Handman said:

Thank you for your lovely responses. Excellent discussion.

You’re not helping yourself. I’m willing to entertain an actual discussion with you but this post isn’t doing anything to quell my suspicions that you don’t really have much in the way of a legitimate argument.

moviefreakedmind said:

Handman said:

I just see no reason for it in Star Wars. It’s pandering.

That’s just what a homophobe would say!!!

I know it’s name calling but it’s kind of true. How the actual fuck is a gay relationship pandering? TFA already set up two male characters with a strong bond. There’s nothing to say that they can’t be homo or bi sexual and end up in a relationship. Assuming they’re heterosexual is just heteronormativity which is a type of homophobia.

And if you were gay, do you think a gay relationship in Star Wars would feel like pandering? No, in fact, after 7 gayless episodes (C-3PO and Obi-Wan ambiguity not withstanding) it would feel like Star Wars is finally showing a relationship that you could relate to.

I think it’s hilarious that Fox was dragging their feet in the sand with Deadpool due to fears it wouldn’t sell. At one point they were going to call the film X-Men Origins: Deadpool because they though the film would need the X-Men brand to be successful. But then Deadpool made more money in its opening weekend than any X-Men film (or Fox film, for that matter) ever did.

Maybe the biggest impact we’ll see is an R-rated Wolverine film (they already seemed to be warming up to it with the hard PG-13 The Wolverine and its R-rated extended cut).

I’m all for it. Honestly I can’t think of an argument against it that isn’t homophobic.

Lord Haseo said:

Here be proof that Episode VIII will take place directly where Episode VII left off

Urgh. His comment isn’t really helpful. What he says is obvious (and in fairness it was the tweeter’s fault for asking the wrong question). Of course that footage is from the Skellig Michael shoot with Rian Johnson.

The question is, is that actually footage from Episode VIII?

There’s a small possibility they recreated the scene for the sake of the teaser.

Too bad zombie’s not around anymore.

GOTG is quite good and definitely one of the best Marvel movies, but I’ll agree it is a little overrated. Some were proclaiming it the second coming of Star Wars which was a bit silly.

Can’t wait to see Kurt Russell as papa Quill!

I’m in agreement with Frink. And how can you be so definitive about how a character should act when there’ve been so many countless, varied interpretations?

SkyderHouseMafia said:

doubleofive said:

SkyderHouseMafia said:

Thanks for all suggestions/advice so far, the Jambe Davdar doco’s look facinating! Would watching them ruin/make listening to the OT commentaries redundant?

The interesting parts of the DVD commentaries that aren’t modern fabrications (Lucas saying he planned for Luke and Leia to be twins from the beginning, etc) are included in the the Filmumentaries.

Oh good aha! Thanks 😃

Jambe’s filmumentaries are must watches for sure. The overlap between the content on it and the DVD commentaries isn’t that much (though he uses a lot of other sources you might recognize like Empire of Dreams). Lucas will occasionally say the modern fabricated BS in the commentary, but not as much as one might suspect.

Nah. In shots where you only see his legs or his arms it’s practical. But otherwise CG. Which is a shame, though considering how janky that CG was it might not have matched up with the practical very well.

Little surreal - Entertainment Weekly article on this:
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/16/star-wars-restore-1977

The ENTIRE crawl is about finding Luke. The ENTIRE thing.

The difference is Yoda is not established in ANH’s crawl and has nothing to do with that story. Luke is not a new character at the end of TFA (not just because we’ve seen him before). He’s the first two words of the crawl and the thing that drives the plot (and he’s name dropped at least eight times throughout the film). If you want to compare this to ANH, that movie, by your logic, should have ended when the X-Wing squadron left Yavin’s atmosphere.

I wouldn’t say that scene is primarily a moment of suspense. Obviously there are a lot of unanswered questions, but the suspense mainly comes from the state of the galaxy in general and whether or not Luke will actually succeed in teaching Rey where he failed with Ben. That doesn’t make it a cliffhanger. There’s not really suspense as to whether or not Luke will accept Rey as a student, as some have said. Sure, it’s possible this will be a matter of contention in the next film, but as far as the context of this film, the implication is this scene is Rey meeting her new master and finally finding the galaxy’s only hope.

That we know bounty hunters are after Han simply sets up the sub plot wherein he gets captured. He does not get captured in the first 5 minutes. By that analogy, in the first 5 minutes of TFA we would have learned that Luke plans on vanishing, then in the third act he’d vanish, and then in the final scene Rey would fly off from the Resistance base.

I’ve so far only listened to the DVD commentaries for each. ANH and ESB are the best. Lucas keeps his “I had everything planned” to a minimum and actually gives some great insight into the process of developing the story and structure of the films. Kersh is a very welcome addition to ESB. He sort of narrates a lot of the film but usually as a way to point out moments that build character.

ROTJ might be the worst of all six. For long stretches no one talks and when people do they just seem bored.

The PT ones are actually pretty great, and give some nice insight into the creation of the films (my favorite bit, from the ROTS commentary I think, Rick McCallum says something about how he still didn’t have a script weeks or so before filming started). Fascinating stuff from all involved. We give the films shit for all the CGI, but from technical perspective, all that stuff is pretty impressive. The FX guys point out FX shots and manipulations that I would have never noticed.

TV’s Frink said:

RicOlie_2 said:

TV’s Frink said:

Something is off here, not sure what. Maybe the audio needs to sound fuller somehow? There needs to be more done with the idea? Thoughts are welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36jonQY7EVo

I dunno, seems fine to me, except for them calling Palpy “Johnny” (unless I misheard that).

You didn’t mishear but it’s a failure on my part to adequately express what is happening - which is that it’s a party for one of the clones. You can hear the clone (i.e. Johnny) saying the weird Tommy Wiseu stuff in the background. Palps is meant to look as if he’s just leading/conducting the singing.

Didn’t really look like that. Perhaps show Palps conducting earlier on and have him move his hands up and down as if conducting. Maybe put it a shot of a clone on a Senate platform from the end of the movie and have that when Johnny is talking so we don’t associate the voice with Palps.

Hardcore Legend said:

Again, I guess that comes from your perspective about who these films are about. If you look at them as 6 film overlaps with the PT and OT being about Anakin Skywalker and the OT and ST being about Luke Skywalker, then I see where you are coming from. If you look at the trilogies as being about each generation (PT-Anakin/Obi Wan, OT-Luke/Leia, ST-Rey/Kylo), then I lean more towards the film being about Rey (and Kylo).

Even if Rey vs. Kylo is the “end” of her story in TFA, that doesn’t mean it should be the last we see of her.

In ANH the “end” of Luke’s story is when he uses the Force to destroy the Death Star. But we still see him later at the end in new fangled clothes receiving a medal as an official member of the Rebellion.

In TPM the “end” of Anakin’s story is who even fucking knows, either when he destroys the droid control ship or when Obi-Wan tells him he’s going to be trained? Anyway we see him later at the parade in full Padawan mode.

The promise of Luke Skywalker being in the film is more than just the 32 year gap between ROTJ and TFA, it is the promise of the opening line of the crawl. Luke Skywalker is a through line in the film from the VERY start. It’s funny how people say TFA has a cliffhanger, which simply isn’t true. If we DIDN’T see Luke it would have been a cliffhanger. But seeing him is the resolution to the story outlined from the very start, very first line of the crawl. The fact that we know Kylo and the First Order are still out there and Rey has training to do is simply a sequel hook, NOT a cliffhanger.

Han’s capture is an element introduced in the second half of ESB and resolving it in that film would have felt out of place because it wasn’t an integral part of that film’s story from the start. The cliffhanger is justified because it is a plot thread that is introduced near the end of the film and, unlike a plot thread introduced at the very start, wouldn’t reasonably require a resolution at the end of the film.

^Nice. A couple months back I went through my old SW toys as a sort of nostalgia trip and found FOUR of that exact Darth Vader toy (in addition to at least six or seven other Vader toys from different lines). Little me really dug that dark lord of the sith.

Hardcore Legend said:

Lord Haseo said:

Hardcore Legend said:
The film would have been much better if they had cut to credits as Rey makes the jump to lightspeed.

How? The entire movie would have felt like a waste if we didn’t see Luke. Secondly, the scene wasn’t even that long so I’m confused as to how such a brief scene effects the rest of film.

The film isn’t about Luke Skywalker. It is about the search for Luke Skywalker. Nothing says they have to actually meet Luke Skywalker once they discover where he is. They have an entire trilogy to flesh out that storyline. It would be like ending ESB with the entire gang landing on Tatooine and walking up to Jabba’s palace.

What the fuck?

The story is about the search for Luke so obviously the conclusion is the finding him.

ESB is not about the search for Han.

Gamecube

Hahahaha

There’s a reason why it was edited the way it was in the theatrical.

Hal 9000 said:

This was a pretty cool thread until about six minutes ago.

Zing!