DominicCobb

Mithrandir said:

Rogue One is a tragedy, because you know the unavoidable fate of the characters, yet you know they can do nothing about it.

I don’t know if tragedy is quite right. This isn’t just an unfortunate fate that has struck these characters, these are sacrifices they’re making proactively.

Seen it three times by now, and I just keep liking it more and more. The Rebel Alliance feels like an actual military organisation. And we get to see that both Rebels and Empire have their internal political struggles, be it Tarkin/Krennic or Saw/Mon Mothma. It doesn’t feel monolithic anymore.

Well, the Empire had its own internal struggles dating back to the Death Star briefing room scene, which in some ways accomplishes as much in the one scene as all the Empire scenes in RO do. The internal Rebellion conflict is a nice addition, but just like with Krennic it doesn’t go anywhere.

It’s a film that has the maturity the OT had, where characters understand each others with just eye contact and they don’t need to say everything, tho in the end yes, what ends up being key is the story and not the characters. I can’t see how that’s not the case in most of movies anyway.

People keep saying this stuff about story being more important than characters, which is sort of missing the point. Story is, of course, ultimately the most important thing. But story and plot are two different things. An extremely simplified equation would be story = plot + characters. A story is the sum of these things and if the characters don’t resolve in a satisfying way than neither does the story, even if the plot does. This is what people are getting at. Now obviously if it’s not necessarily a character film that’s not the end of the world but then the story has to be resolved in other meaningful ways (thematically, for example). A story is a sum of its parts and whether it works for people depends on how well those parts come together. For some people the movie didn’t totally work so they’re blaming it on the characters when that’s actually only a piece of it.

And I don’t like the fact that this movie is getting so much trashing on the web,

Welcome to the web.

mainly because I really liked it and hope all the spinoffs take this approach and level, and not to have “character driven” spinoffs such as “origins of han solo”, “origin of boba fett”, “Vader”.

Personally as long as they steer clear of overly contrived origins (this is when Han installed chess on the Falcon! and this is how he got the red lines on his pants!) I don’t think it’s a bad idea to see how someone like Han Solo became who he is, provided it’s handled well. Boba Fett meanwhile seems like kind of the perfect spin-off character, considering his popularity, coolness (well, in ESB at least) and the fact that we’ve barely seen him do a damn thing on the big screen. A Vader film would be unwise, if for no other reason than we’ve already seen so much of him.

Honestly cinema today, and actors are generally so crappy I’d rather have a CGI Alec Guinness or Peter Cushing all day.

Jokes aside, the actual work of those performances would actually fall on actors today so you’d just be getting the same “crap” but just with a different face.

generalfrevious said:

DominicCobb said:

generalfrevious said:

DominicCobb said:

frevious please stop basing your opinions on other people’s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukk5TJL27pE

God I can’t watch that. “Epidemic”? That would imply it’s a bad thing that so many movies are passable. It’d be worse if they weren’t.

I wasn’t exactly wild about Rouge One. No internet reviewer gave me that opinion.

The Studios have more creative control than in any point in Hollywood’s history.

Totally untrue. See 30s, 40s.

Abrams was chosen because he was the ideal studio director: one that could be molded by the producers to churn out middle-of-the-road products designed to rake in enough money opening weekend.

This is a ridiculous notion. TFA would have made millions opening weekend regardless of director. LFL hired him specifically because he would bring something to the table, hence his impact on the story/script. This isn’t Marvel, LFL wants strong creative voices, hence why they aren’t hiring randos off the street like Scott Derrickson and Peyton Reed. If they wanted someone who they could control, they wouldn’t hire someone who has their own production company. They’d hire someone new and cheap who can’t say no to anything (which we have seen done on a SW film before, and not in this century).

I don’t like the films made by committees as opposed to auteurs. Say what you want about George Lucas and the prequels; at least they had some kind of ambition, some sort of risk-taking of CGI boundaries, willing to bring in political themes unseen in previous films. They’re not good by any means, of course, but an ambitious failure is always more interesting than a solid yet forgettable blockbuster.

Now I know you’re basing your opinion off others because this is the same tired bullshit I hear ad nauseam from internet d-bags. TFA was written by three people: JJ Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan, and Michael Ardnt. If by committee you mean the story group, well sure they were involved, but that’s mainly from a broader universe building/continuity perspective. If you’re talking about some sort of nameless committee of Disney execs looking at made up focus group opinions - that’s just utter nonsense.

And then to bring George fucking Lucas into it… no ambition there. Just a dude “writing” scenes last minute and telling his concept artists, modelers, costumers, etc. to create hundreds of different potential elements (based on half-baked, underdeveloped notes) that he’d just literally stamp for approval. They were mostly CGI because he was too fucking lazy to leave the studio and because he wanted to be able to basically continue to write and shoot the movies while he was editing them and realizing what important scenes they were missing. The political themes, I mean I don’t even know what to say. I mean good for him I guess to try it? But is it ballsy to put the most boring and poorly handled political subplots in your big budget movies? In a way maybe, but again, mostly just lazy in that he just threw shit against a wall and didn’t try to concoct any sort of interesting story out of them. It’s insane to me that people are saying TFA failed by not having enough politics. The OT didn’t have any politics. A film is not made good by politics. A film is made good by telling a good story. Since the PT didn’t do that, what I say when you said at least it had political themes is who gives a shit.

Which film would you watch again, The Room or Captain America: Civil War?

Captain America. Next question.

I find it surprising that people on this thread are suddenly defending TFA when they have been bashing it only a few hours ago as “crap is crap.”

I don’t think anyone here defending it ever called it crap. Most people are pretty constant in their opinions. Except you, I guess, who literally hours ago said you “really liked TFA.”

generalfrevious said:

DominicCobb said:

frevious please stop basing your opinions on other people’s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukk5TJL27pE

God I can’t watch that. “Epidemic”? That would imply it’s a bad thing that so many movies are passable. It’d be worse if they weren’t.

frevious please stop basing your opinions on other people’s.

Vader has a sense of humor for sure, but I don’t think he really goes for puns. Certainly not with that delivery.

The last shot is actually the Tantive going to hyperspace which has end of SW movie precedent with ESB. . . .
but it shouldn’t matter either way because this is not a traditional SW film.

DominicCobb said:

Iv
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I’v
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Ugh oh, almighty RLM has spoken. Does this mean everyone has to change their opinions on the movie now?

Haarspalter said:

Jeebus said:

Blade Runner 2049 Trailer

Looks awesome. Since Harrison Ford is old, is that confirmation that he isn’t a replicant?

I never understood the whole Deckard-is-a-replicant-nonsense. Does it make the story/movie better if he is a replicant?

Quite the opposite.

I think the unfortunate truth is that JEJ’s voice is not what it once was. This is pretty evident in most of his Rebels appearances as well.

ZkinandBonez said:

According to Pablo Hidalgo the RO “ending never changed”;
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016/12/pablo-hidalgo-clarifies-bits-about-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story.html

A bit odd, considering all the trailer shots suggesting a very different ending, but I’m guessing that he’s simply referring to the overall fates of the characters.

Act 3 =/= ending. I assume he means the last five minutes or so.

Spuffure said:

How can I use two wii nunchuck at the same time?

DominicCobb said:

Grow a third hand (or find the spare one you put away with your N64 controllers).

I don’t know, the majority thing sounds kind of arbitrary.

I consider myself a Star Trek fan (though not a Trekkie or whatever) and I only like TOS and the movies. I think part of it has to do with the OT being the original. Not a great comparison but you can be a Jaws fan and only like the first film.

If it comes down to others’ perception, then I think when most people think of SW they first think of the OT. The books/comics/games etc. don’t even come to mind. With the PT, I think many will assume there’s a good chance they’re not even a factor. When it comes to the new movies, consider this common exchange nowadays: “I’m a Star Wars fan,” “Oh, really? What did you think of the new one(s)?”

If you don’t personally feel comfortable calling yourself a Star Wars fan that’s totally fine but I don’t think being just an OT fan and calling yourself a Star Wars fan sends as wrong of a message as you think.

If necessary you can just call yourself an “original” Star Wars fan and people will likely understand completely what that means.

joefavs said:

All right, so it is Jyn’s theme I meant. It’s got the same chords as the main theme from Trek: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ84ymE53Ns
(1:10 for Dom’s link to Jyn’s theme, 0:43 for Trek)

Hmm yeah I think I can definitely hear some shared DNA there.

Being considered a Star Wars fan doesn’t mean you have to be a fan of the whole franchise. You can be a fan of just the OOT. I think what you’re a fan of is up to you.

Grow a third hand (or find the spare one you put away with your N64 controllers).

TV’s Frink said:

Jeebus said:

TV’s Frink said:

trimboNZ said:

TV’s Frink said:

Gimpy said:

I loved the movie, just loved it. One thing I might change is the dialogue between the director and Vader on Mustafar. I would simply cut vader’s line about chocking on one’s ambitions, (he’s a sith for Chrissakes! Ambition is all he knows.)

I hated that line because Darth Vader does not use one-liners. But I don’t understand your point about him being a Sith.

And I hate the idea of putting anything more from ROTS in.

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

As I previously corrected myself, he does not use cheesy one-liners.

Anakin does, though.

Anakin is not Vader. It’s quite obvious they are two completely different characters that have zero in common with each other.

Fairly certain its not explicitly stated in the films but I bet Vader really dislikes sand.

joefavs said:

What I think is Jyn’s theme reminds me of Giacchino’s Trek theme (I’m not totally sure yet which theme is which on the R1 OST apart from the guardians of the Whills). It’s got some VERY similar chord changes.

Well there’s Jyn’s theme and then there’s what I’ve been calling the Rogue One theme but I guess they’re actually calling the “Hope” theme. Both have similar sounds to Giacchino’s Trek theme I guess but neither reminds me particularly of much of it.

Here’s both (Jyn’s theme for most of it, with the Hope theme starts at around 3:17):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w42CTq5QZtI

Jyn’s theme actually has some similarities to the Yorktown theme from STBeyond (at 1:45):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfJSE8Ea94c

While the Hope theme sounds more like a SW main title fake out with the same first two notes and then going in a different direction.

DevilWing said:

Also, is it just me or did the melody for Jyn’s theme remind anyone else of the Star Crash main title?

Well here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBWO4HPh8k0

And god you’re right, sounds just like the Hope theme! Amazing! Long live Star Crash.
(I guess it’s full circle as both themes are designed as SW main title knock-off/homages)

MalàStrana said:

Why would you fanedit such a perfect movie which is the best Star Wars since God spoke to Abraham ?

It’s spelled “Abrams.”

Once again the lack of backstory is not the issue. We’re all sensing something was off and trying to diagnose. People might be saying they want more backstory but that’s not what they need.

Rogue One isn’t about the characters, which is totally fine. It’s about the Rebel Alliance and its fight against the Empire. Which is great, but the story isn’t quite there. It feels to much like an anecdote. I wanted to see not just the struggle against the Empire but the struggle to bring the disparate factions together. The morally grey areas of the revolution. The dilemma of ends justifying the means. Whether to ally with terrorists. The motivations beyond just fighting a flag flying over the galaxy. And even the motivations on the other side of the coin, on the Empire’s side. It just happens to be that the best way to explore these ideas is through the characters.

These are things they all came so close to but just missed.

Lord Haseo said:

Another great point. The most important impact he had on the film is the transferring of information to the audience that Jyn was abandoned by him because people we’re starting to piece together who she really was. Other than that and the “Save The Rebellion…Save the dream” line he is completely useless just like Lor San Tekka in TFA.

Except Saw is made out to be a very important character in the film. Tekka is just an old ally with the map who sets thing in action at the start - no need to be anything more.

imperialscum said:

DominicCobb said:

Nope

I am sorry to hear you don’t agree with the truth.

I am sorry to hear you have yet to grow out of your delusions, laser brain.

luckydube56 said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

Lord Haseo said:

mapet318 said:
TESB
ANH
RO
TFA
RotJ
RotS
TPM
AotC

Switch TFA and RO and that is literally my order.

I’m glad to see this movie isn’t as divisive as TFA was. I mean when was the last time Star Wars fans agreed on something that didn’t involve a film sucking?

Yeah, it’s been pretty refreshing how even the loudest anti-TFA voices have been supportive of RO…except for one ridiculous troll, of course.

Part of it is that some of the loud voices aren’t even out. By nature, the spin-off isn’t garnering as much analysis, critical or otherwise. And I think the stakes are lower too with a spin-off, and the expectations aren’t sky high coming off so long a wait with TFA.

It may not be as great an event as TFA, but in no way is R1 flying under the radar. Nor has it been under marketed or underexposed to film going audiences. Here in 2016 there could be no greater film. If there are indeed people out there dying to bash R1 as they did TFA, this film has enough world wide exposure to have drawn them out.

I think R1 has broad appeal. Not everyone will like it better than TFA, though many do; however, there is a near conensus that it is good.

I’m not saying at all that RO is flying under the radar, that’s plainly untrue. I just mean the sheer fact of Episode VII meant people in general would be more critical and have more to say.

Character development =/= backstory.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think they needed to develop every single character. I just wish at least a few were more focused. It’s tricky when you have so many characters with so many different elements. The Krennic/Erso friend/foe dynamic hinted at but that never goes anywhere. The Saw Gerrera/terrorist aspect of the Rebellion of which is clearly there but otherwise completely unexplored. Jyn’s on-again, off-again rebellion and risking everything for the greater good (and how that relates to Galen) which is there but basically brushed over. The Cassian conflict which is very solid but doesn’t have any sort of meaningful resolution in regards to the moral dilemma of a violent Rebellion. Bodhi Rook and his connection to Galen/why he defected. Chirrut and Baze and anything about their religion/trust in the Force beyond what we can assume based on prior knowledge of the concept. These are all interesting things but far too unexplored. Some scenario in which many arcs are tied together with some thematic coherence would have been best route.

I do too think the film could have been longer. Team based war films often reach near 2 and a half hours and this had the leeway to do so as a standalone.

TV’s Frink said:

Lord Haseo said:

mapet318 said:
TESB
ANH
RO
TFA
RotJ
RotS
TPM
AotC

Switch TFA and RO and that is literally my order.

I’m glad to see this movie isn’t as divisive as TFA was. I mean when was the last time Star Wars fans agreed on something that didn’t involve a film sucking?

Yeah, it’s been pretty refreshing how even the loudest anti-TFA voices have been supportive of RO…except for one ridiculous troll, of course.

Part of it is that some of the loud voices aren’t even out. By nature, the spin-off isn’t garnering as much analysis, critical or otherwise. And I think the stakes are lower too with a spin-off, and the expectations aren’t sky high coming off so long a wait with TFA.