Also I had never really realised this, but I love the cinematography and look of Attack of the Clones.
Maybe the weirdest thing I’ve seen today, which is really saying something.
They’ve also completely rebooted the Empire vs rebels scenario, with the Resistance now even being called rebels. Snoke was the only character with some history beyond the FO, and might have provided motivations that separates the FO from the Empire, but that’s all gone by the wayside. There are now only new faces part of an organisation without much of a history or an identity. It’s this sense of history and hidden layers that made Star Wars appealing to me, but now all the history and layers have been peeled away.
Thing is, it’s not Snoke’s First Order anymore, it’s Kylo’s. And yeah, the history’s been stripped away, but, again, that’s the point. It’s not about Vader or the Empire anymore. This is his and I’m excited to see where else he takes it.
It’s not about Vader or the Emperor. It’s about a sense of history, and motivations. With the OT there was the history of the old Republic, Vader, the Jedi. With the PT there was the history of the Sith, the rule if two. The FO has no history or identity. It’s just a bunch of faceless goons emulating the Empire, led by Kylo and Hux, neither of whom have any motivations aside from wanting to be evil.
There was no more motivation behind the Empire than that. There was a sense of history, sure - they were once the Old Republic. Well the First Order rose from the ashes of the Empire (and there’s Ben Solo, Luke’s Jedi). I don’t know if you can really count the Sith in the PT because that was never even vaguely explained (which, to me, is fine). Kylo’s motivations in TFA and TLJ are obvious and make perfect sense for the character. I do hope he thinks bigger in IX though.
Snoke was only a big mystery because fans proposed endless theories - there’s nothing in the film itself that invites such rampant speculation.
What about a horribly disfigured and extremely powerful force user that’s the leader of a mysterious new group that took the place of the dead Empire and somehow influenced Ben Solo to turn to the dark side (which everyone in TFA and TLJ kinda acknowledges but there’s still no explanation as to how that happened) and murder his father, fellow students, and attempt to murder his uncle DOESN’T invite speculation?
Sorry, “invite” was the wrong word, I think “demand” or “require” was closer to what I meant.
Well, that’s up to each of us to decide. You may feel it doesn’t require an explanation, which is perfectly fine, but others like myself may feel differently.
Yes, fair enough. I 100% believe it didn’t require an explanation, but I will say I do think they could have put in one could have added to the story. To me, the only Snoke theory that made sense was that he was some sort of semi-ancient Sith who went into exile and was bidding his time for the right moment to come back. I do think something like this could have helped the film, but only in terms of what it means for Kylo Ren. When he kills Snoke and says “let the past die,” there would undoubtedly be more weight behind it if we were actually completely certain that Snoke was, in fact, a Sith, and not just kinda think that that’s the likely explanation.
I don’t see why people are constantly complaining about TLJ like “it breaks what TFA set up!” or some such. That’s what I liked about it—the plot twists.
You think Snoke is going to be the next Palpatine (ie. big bad who dies at the end of the third film), but he’s not.
You think Luke is going to mentor Rey but he doesn’t.
You think Leia is dead but she’s not.
You think someone or something on the Light Side is connecting Rey and Ren, but it’s Snoke, but it’s again not really.
You think Finn is going to destroy the tracker but he doesn’t and gets caught. You think there’s no way out except then BB-8 shows up in a chicken walker.
You think Poe is going to save the cruiser but he doesn’t.
You think it’s the Vice Admiral coming through the door but it isn’t.
You think Luke is on the planet fighting Ren but he’s not.
You think Ren is going to kill Rey but he doesn’t—he does exactly what Vader wanted to do in ESB but couldn’t.
It’s the best thing about the film. It keeps throwing curve balls.
Oh, and that business about Rey’s family being nobodies from nowheresville, Ren told her that. There is no guarantee that he was not lying. But even if he wasn’t, I like the idea that not the whole of the The Force hinges directly on descendants of the House of Skywalker (as many people speculated that she was a daughter of Luke or Leia).
The one real negative of the film is… Yoda. They got the Yoda voice actor from The Clone Wars (whom I hate), and used either another Creepy Puppet Yoda or a CGI adaption of it.
it took the Rebel Alliance five yours to take control after the battle of Endor.
Wait a sec, no it didn’t. It’s been established that it took less than a year for the Empire to back down.
Five years, a year, who cares. The FO took instant control of the galaxy. It took them zero years, which is unrealistic, especially considering SKB was blown up along with a large part of their resources.
This is something that could change, of course, but I didn’t think they had necessarily taken complete control of the galaxy. To use a random analogy, the galaxy/Senate was a piñata. The First Order broke it open and is trying to take all the candy. But I don’t think there is any reason to be certain that they’ve actually accomplished that yet.
I don’t know what it is, maybe I’m tired of all the time I spent defending TFA, but I honestly don’t even think I can bother with trying to respond to a lot of these negative reviews. Maybe it’s the volume, maybe I’m just shocked that there’s even such an outcry to begin with. Our takes on the film are just so different that I honestly don’t know how to bridge that gap, besides just hoping these people see the movie again and get out of it what I, and many others, did. It’s really something.
I really liked TFA, and it’s partly for this reason, that I’m not reaaly happy with RJ rebooting much of JJ’s setups. All the mystery surrounding Rey and Snoke has turned to dust. There’s a lot of twists and turns, and some shocks thrown in the mix, but ultimately I feel both Rey and Kylo are still in the same place they were at the end of TFA. Rey’s still the perfect hero, and Kylo’s still a big evil child.
See this is exactly the kind of take that I just can’t reconcile with my own.
First of all, I thought it was a perfect follow up to TFA in those regards. Snoke was only a big mystery because fans proposed endless theories - there’s nothing in the film itself that invites such rampant speculation. Rey’s parents reveal is honestly the only thing that made sense, and is a conclusion I landed on after a few viewings of TFA (not just that, thematically it’s so much better than any alternative).
Well I disagree. Rey was able to do things in TFA that previously required a lot of training, a trend that continues in this film. That in my view requires some sort of explanation, and just being the child of some nobody’s doesn’t cut it for me.
I don’t even know how to engage with this. “Some nobody,” the force is for everybody, that’s the whole point.
They’ve also completely rebooted the Empire vs rebels scenario, with the Resistance now even being called rebels. Snoke was the only character with some history beyond the FO, and might have provided motivations that separates the FO from the Empire, but that’s all gone by the wayside. There are now only new faces part of an organisation without much of a history or an identity. It’s this sense of history and hidden layers that made Star Wars appealing to me, but now all the history and layers have been peeled away.
Thing is, it’s not Snoke’s First Order anymore, it’s Kylo’s. And yeah, the history’s been stripped away, but, again, that’s the point. It’s not about Vader or the Empire anymore. This is his and I’m excited to see where else he takes it.
I think the first thing you have to realize is that the rules around the Force are constantly evolving (and always have) and that how much training one needs before they’re a “Jedi” is really anyone’s guess.
But, beyond that, I don’t think I’d say at all that either has mastered the Force. And I think we put too much stock into the idea that you need a teacher to be trained, and I think that’s the point here. A teacher is helpful, up to a certain point. Rey doesn’t need Luke (or his bloodline). Kylo doesn’t need Snoke (or his backstory). They can forge their own paths. This is their story and their future.
Why do I have to realize? All the films leading up to TFA shows Force users need a significant amount of training to master the Force. Even in TFA Snoke suggests Kylo needs more training. I think future directors should respect the in-universe rules, and when they don’t, provide explanations. I’m not fond of a universe rife with inconsistencies.
Eh, not quite. Luke can do a decent bit before he gets to Dagobah. He’s there for what, a week? Then returns a year later only to be told his training’s all done. It’s only the prequels that imply that being a Jedi is something that takes a lifetime to learn.
Snoke was only a big mystery because fans proposed endless theories - there’s nothing in the film itself that invites such rampant speculation.
What about a horribly disfigured and extremely powerful force user that’s the leader of a mysterious new group that took the place of the dead Empire and somehow influenced Ben Solo to turn to the dark side (which everyone in TFA and TLJ kinda acknowledges but there’s still no explanation as to how that happened) and murder his father, fellow students, and attempt to murder his uncle DOESN’T invite speculation?
Sorry, “invite” was the wrong word, I think “demand” or “require” was closer to what I meant.
To me it seemed like Finn was either going to get hit before he made it, or crashing into the weapon wasn’t going to accomplish much. Basically, it seemed like he was making a sacrifice for the sake of it.
I think they made it clear that it was between him destroying the weapon and himself, or saving himself and the weapon. Rose clearly says that basically with the line of “more important to save those who we love, than defeat those who we hate”
Yeah but that line is the whole point. Attacking the weapon is a fruitless maneuver designed just to hurt them (like with the Dreadnaught at the start of the film). The Resistance was in a dire situation there even if the weapon was blown. The more important thing to do was to go back to the base and figure out most importantly how to save everyone they could, however they could.
I’ll never understand the Marvel joke criticism thing. First of all, what’s wrong with having jokes in your movies? I’d be quickly bored with Marvel movies if they didn’t. Second, just because there’s a lot of humor doesn’t automatically mean it’s the same kind of humor as Marvel tends to do.
I don’t know what it is, maybe I’m tired of all the time I spent defending TFA, but I honestly don’t even think I can bother with trying to respond to a lot of these negative reviews. Maybe it’s the volume, maybe I’m just shocked that there’s even such an outcry to begin with. Our takes on the film are just so different that I honestly don’t know how to bridge that gap, besides just hoping these people see the movie again and get out of it what I, and many others, did. It’s really something.
I really liked TFA, and it’s partly for this reason, that I’m not reaaly happy with RJ rebooting much of JJ’s setups. All the mystery surrounding Rey and Snoke has turned to dust. There’s a lot of twists and turns, and some shocks thrown in the mix, but ultimately I feel both Rey and Kylo are still in the same place they were at the end of TFA. Rey’s still the perfect hero, and Kylo’s still a big evil child.
See this is exactly the kind of take that I just can’t reconcile with my own.
First of all, I thought it was a perfect follow up to TFA in those regards. Snoke was only a big mystery because fans proposed endless theories - there’s nothing in the film itself that invites such rampant speculation. Rey’s parents reveal is honestly the only thing that made sense, and is a conclusion I landed on after a few viewings of TFA (not just that, thematically it’s so much better than any alternative).
As for Rey and Kylo, I don’t know what to say. I don’t think Rey’s a “perfect hero” in TFA and I think she’s even less that in TLJ. Kylo’s status as a “big evil child” is part of what makes him so compelling as a villain. And I just don’t really get the idea that they’re still in the same place.
That’s it, honestly. I just truly don’t get a lot of the criticisms I’ve seen. I wonder if it’s a matter of expectations. I went in with a completely open mind to whatever story Rian wanted to tell. It’s understandable to me why someone/anyone with specific expectations for how this story should go would be disappointed.
As for IX, I’m incredibly excited. With TLJ they were sort of boxed in to a certain extent, but with IX, beyond obviously finding satisfying conclusions for the characters, the story can pretty much go anywhere. I love that.
Neither should reasonably have mastered the Force, as Kylo has been given no further training, and Rey’s been given three lessons. Yet, they now are the sole live representatives of the light and dark side of the Force. Yoda told Luke to pass on what he had learned, but he has done no such thing, but we somehow still have to believe Rey’s going to be the first in a new line of Jedi. I know some will argue, Luke could come back to train Rey as a Force ghost, but then why didn’t Obi-Wan and Yoda do the same? Why did Luke have to pass on anything, if Obi-Wan and Yoda can train students from the grave. It just makes very little sense, and dilutes the mythology, in my opinion of course.
I think the first thing you have to realize is that the rules around the Force are constantly evolving (and always have) and that how much training one needs before they’re a “Jedi” is really anyone’s guess.
But, beyond that, I don’t think I’d say at all that either has mastered the Force. And I think we put too much stock into the idea that you need a teacher to be trained, and I think that’s the point here. A teacher is helpful, up to a certain point. Rey doesn’t need Luke (or his bloodline). Kylo doesn’t need Snoke (or his backstory). They can forge their own paths. This is their story and their future.
Yoda burned down a church.
I don’t get why Luke wanted to destroy the books, then got defensive about them with Yoda.
I think Luke wanted to burn it down for a different reason than Yoda.
To me it seemed like Finn was either going to get hit before he made it, or crashing into the weapon wasn’t going to accomplish much. Basically, it seemed like he was making a sacrifice for the sake of it.
I don’t know what it is, maybe I’m tired of all the time I spent defending TFA, but I honestly don’t even think I can bother with trying to respond to a lot of these negative reviews. Maybe it’s the volume, maybe I’m just shocked that there’s even such an outcry to begin with. Our takes on the film are just so different that I honestly don’t know how to bridge that gap, besides just hoping these people see the movie again and get out of it what I, and many others, did. It’s really something.
Hey you guys, WHERE WAS SNAP WEXLEY?! Are we to believe he died in the opening space battle without any acknowledgement?
I remember seeing him killed off.
It was early on. I think during the bombing run on the dreadnaught, he was escorting bombers in an x-wing and there was a half second long shot of his face in the cockpit as the ship blew up.Really disappointing the way they treated a main character from the new eu.
I thought that was someone else entirely.
Doesn’t anyone stay for the credits anymore? It was Frank Oz all the way.
Yeah, you don’t even have to stay that long either, he’s listed among the main cast.
8/9. TFA/TLJ
10. R1Mala never fails to deliver.
You missed the brief moment when she placed TLJ next to AOTC.
Hey you guys, WHERE WAS SNAP WEXLEY?! Are we to believe he died in the opening space battle without any acknowledgement?
I mentioned this, I thought it was funny how easily a main character of the Aftermath books was killed off.
Did they though?
Hey you guys, WHERE WAS SNAP WEXLEY?! Are we to believe he died in the opening space battle without any acknowledgement?
Let’s hope not!
Depending on when it’s actually set. Might be centuries removed from the Star Wars we know.
Was that even being thought about while TLJ was actually in production?
I believe KK said she proposed the prospect to Rian after shooting finished.
We’re not here at all to discuss capitalism, but criticizing the greedy and opulent rich people is essentially what led to the french revolution that installed and legitimized the burgeois class in continental Europe…
There’s no conflict between criticizing those above you and capitalism, exactly because capitalism is based on the idea that if you do things right, you should be granted the right to escalate in the social pyramid
Well we disagree a bit there, the implication is that these people have escalated to the top of the social pyramid because of the immoral things they’ve done. But obviously it’s open to interpretation and apparently completely beside the point in terms of your analysis (as much as our perspectives on SW diverge, I can’t say I don’t find your takes interesting).
That’s a pretty funny take, I don’t even disagree with some of it (even if my reaction is the opposite), but I don’t know how you can call the film “openly capitalistic” when it’s basically the only Star Wars film that openly criticizes capitalism.
Regarding your comment, you mean it openly criticises capistalism because it shows rich people in the casino arc?
It doesn’t just show them, it explains how their selfishness is responsible for war and suffering. It’s a small aspect of the film but it’s there.
Yeah wait how is being anti-animal cruelty a political thing?
That’s a pretty funny take, I don’t even disagree with some of it (even if my reaction is the opposite), but I don’t know how you can call the film “openly capitalistic” when it’s basically the only Star Wars film that openly criticizes capitalism.
Holy hell did this movie have a onscreen body count.
And Admiral Ackbar. RIP
Who the heck is going to warn everyone about traps now?
Oh my god Akbar died?! How did I miss that!
Luke did something we’ve never seen any other Jedi do before. He projected a solid version of himself across unimaginable distances and could interact with Leia and even Threepio. That had to come with a price. In the end, Luke saved the day one last time and went out a hero.
I didn’t get that from the movie at all. If that had been communicated more clearly to the audience it might not have felt so insulting to me.
Really? I thought that was clear. Whether it should kill him, I don’t know, but as soon as he got out of it I could tell things weren’t looking good for him.
I imagine it must be a one time thing kind of power.
Yeah, he can come back as a ghost, but without Carrie I’d have much preferred to keep Luke around in the flesh for at least one more movie.
And the way he died still massively upsets me because it seems so fucking pointless. There was no good reason I can see to off him.
Except maybe to become more powerful than you can possibly imagine?
I admit this is still something I’m mulling over. No strong feelings about it either way, oddly enough (considering this is literally my childhood hero).