Just because she saves the books doesn’t mean she’ll be married to the dogmatic views expressed in them. It was Luke that seemed beholden to that narrow minded view of them, not Rey.
FWIW, that Yoda thing was one of my favorite things in the whole film once I figured it out. I didn’t think it was actually contradictory, just some classic “certain point of view” Jedi Master trolling that got Luke to snap out of his funk and focus on what was important in that moment. Of course Yoda doesn’t actually advocate burning books.
Doesn’t he? If you left the theater before the end of the movie, or have less than superhuman focus like I do, wouldn’t that be exactly what you’d conclude? That scene, to the best of my ability to read, wholeheartedly says it’s time for the old Jedi to end and Yoda vindicates Luke’s desire to burn the books after he hesitates.
What I’d like to know is: does what makes you read that scene differently come from later in the film, or can you support it from that scene (and what came before) alone?
And how does that relate to why Luke does what he does at the end? And honestly, does Luke know Rey has the texts and he is counting on this as he tells Ren he won’t be the last Jedi? Or would he be surprised to learn this and say, “Hey, Yoda destroyed those!”?
If a split second shot toward the end of the movie that I missed when seeing the film twice is supposed to carry such interpretive weight necessary to understand themes intimately connected to Luke’s character and story, that makes me a little irrationally angry. Maybe it’s too far removed from how Star Wars films have always done things, especially after TFA tried so hard to match that style.
You’re missing the nuances of it.
Luke has spent far too much time agonizing over the ways of the Jedi of the past, and ultimately agonizing over why the Jedi should end. Frankly, he gets a little melodramatic about it. Because he believes that the Jedi must end, he resolves himself to burn the tree. But he can’t help himself. He’s still to attached to the history of it all (both the good and the bad) and can’t get over it.
So Yoda basically tells him, well, get over it. There’s more to the Force and the Jedi than mere books. In that scene, that’s the point that matters. Luke is caught in a cloud and doesn’t have his mind on where he is. Burning the tree and giving him his final lesson sets him right.
However, even though it is important that Rey learn the Force in her own way, it is still nice that she’ll be able to read the texts and take what she needs from them (and some of their mistakes too, as that is a great teacher, as Yoda states). The fact that Rey saves the books and Yoda knows does not invalidate the lesson he teaches Luke in the earlier scene.
Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.
Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.
Please fire Kennedy
Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).
Someone’s getting a little defensive.
I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.
Right, how dare they give women equal footing.
Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.
Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.
Please fire Kennedy
Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).
Another potential reference to the PT, in the same breath Luke says that Obi-wan was responsible for the training and “creation” of Darth Vader. I feel like that word specifically (creation) implies the events of ROTS.
Personally, I like the PT references. Quality or not, they’re part of the franchise and part of the lore. I always thought that the fallibility of the Jedi was one of the most interesting aspects of the PT (yet of course not really explored there). One of my biggest hopes for the ST before I knew anything about TFA was that Luke would in some way address the failures of the Jedi of the past in training the new generation of Jedi. So this satisfies me quite a bit.
They also explain “balance” here better than in all the PT movies combined (though it’s still, of course, vague).
Rey has the books, she has her experiences and she will have to forge her own path, be a Jedi in her own way. The old order is dead, the Sith are dead, there is only the Force.
Yeah.
The Jedi were flawed, absolutely. But that doesn’t mean they have to end completely. They can change instead.
It’s not that I want to know the backstory about Snoke. It’s that Snoke shouldn’t exist in the post-OT Star Wars universe.
The Disney Trilogy is seemingly set in an entirely different universe from the PT and the OT.
We get ZERO recognition that the events of the OT occurred. We have to start realizing that TFA was a full-on J.J. Abrahams Soft Reboot of Star Wars back to the state of A New Hope. It’s like Endor never occurred.
We’re not expecting answers because Lucas and the PT gave us answers. We’re expecting the answers that the ORIGINAL trilogy gave us, such as the Emperor being defeated. When TFA comes out and the Emperor is still alive via Snoke, that’s why we need answers.
First of all saying there’s “zero” recognition is just absurd hyperbole. I’d laugh if this kind of statement wasn’t so popular.
Second, the OT never said that killing the Emperor would end the Sith once and for all (or anything like that). The PT said that. And even the PT never said that ending the Sith once and for all would put an end to the dark side once and for all. That’s a ridiculous notion. The dark side will always be there, and the light will always have to fight back. That’s a powerful and true sentiment, and that’s what the ST is all about.
One of my favorite parts about the ST is how it has the feeling that we missed a few episodes (just like the OT). It leaves room for surprises, speculation, and mystery.
(The problem with this approach being that, because Lucas actually made the missing episodes that came before the OT, audiences have come to expect answers to questions that never needed to be provided in the OT - such as the identity of the Emperor).
I’d love to see the story of Luke’s jedi too, but a book or a cartoon would work just fine.
I LOVE that this is the only film without an actual lightsaber battle, and the reason for that being that Luke never takes a swing at Ren.
The problem is that the first part of this new story strongly hints, that Rey’s parentage actually matters and then suddenly this other guy takes over the story and just goes “yeah, we’re not doing any of that”.
I strongly disagree. JJ’s statements about the force show he had the same reveal in mind. Rey’s parents only matter in terms of it matters to Rey. No one in TFA says her parents are important besides her, in fact if anything they say the opposite.
I’m talking about her Force vision, Anakin’s lightsaber calling to her and Ben Kenobi’s voice speaking to her. They have absolutely no idea what this meant when they set this up and it will probably amount to nothing at all. Maybe some clever writer will deal with that in a comic book or something.
The lightsaber represented Luke, the mission to find him, and the force in general. When she touched it she saw Luke’s history (and heard from his mentors) because it was once his saber. It called to her because the journey to find Luke and learn the force called to her.
At the end of the film, Kylo Ren claims ownership of the saber. Yet who grabs it when it’s stuck in the snow? It ties into the whole idea of the force belonging to everyone and not just the Skywalkers.
Cool. Maybe you could be the clever writer who fills in the gaps. 😃 How about that ship leaving Jakku? What should they do about that?
I’m not saying the “force back” as they call it is perfectly done. I think it’s a little messy and lacks a solid flow. But I have no problem with what it represents - the force. The light, and the dark. The ship leaving Jakku is part of the dark side, tapping into Rey’s fears of abandonment and isolation. TLJ makes this connection explicit.
The problem is that the first part of this new story strongly hints, that Rey’s parentage actually matters and then suddenly this other guy takes over the story and just goes “yeah, we’re not doing any of that”.
I strongly disagree. JJ’s statements about the force show he had the same reveal in mind. Rey’s parents only matter in terms of it matters to Rey. No one in TFA says her parents are important besides her, in fact if anything they say the opposite.
I’m talking about her Force vision, Anakin’s lightsaber calling to her and Ben Kenobi’s voice speaking to her. They have absolutely no idea what this meant when they set this up and it will probably amount to nothing at all. Maybe some clever writer will deal with that in a comic book or something.
The lightsaber represented Luke, the mission to find him, and the force in general. When she touched it she saw Luke’s history (and heard from his mentors) because it was once his saber. It called to her because the journey to find Luke and learn the force called to her.
At the end of the film, Kylo Ren claims ownership of the saber. Yet who grabs it when it’s stuck in the snow? It ties into the whole idea of the force belonging to everyone and not just the Skywalkers.
The problem is that the first part of this new story strongly hints, that Rey’s parentage actually matters and then suddenly this other guy takes over the story and just goes “yeah, we’re not doing any of that”.
I strongly disagree. JJ’s statements about the force show he had the same reveal in mind. Rey’s parents only matter in terms of it matters to Rey. No one in TFA says her parents are important besides her, in fact if anything they say the opposite.
I don’t doubt Johnson when he says that this is the best version of the film. But I can’t lie that I’m really curious about what an extended edition would look like.
Super interested in the Luke/Rey sequence and the Finn/Poe scene. Less interested in Finn/Rose/DJ, but we’ll see. Sounds like that one at least will be unfinished.
Speaking of the Luke/Rey bit, Luke said “three lessons,” right? Lesson 1 was sitting on the rock, but I don’t remember the other two…
Lesson 2 was explaining why the Jedi were failures. I don’t think he got to lesson 3 (I feel like it might have been cut).
You could update the first post to say “Episodes I-VIII”
I don’t really have the patience to update the first post with all the stuff I’ve watched/read.
Speaking of other message boards, I just read this on another one, and it’s spot on.
All this discussion and posting really shows the tough part about working on franchises like this - I doubt there was nearly this much discussion, theorizing and fanboying for the original trilogy. It was fresh and there was no internet, not to mention no years of backstories, extended universe and ages for people to decide what Star Wars was to them. I don’t think you could ever make a perfect movie now for it that will satisfy everyone or even most people - again that’s why I respect Rian for doing what he did in this film.
This is why I originally felt that the original main characters like Luke, Leia, and Han shouldn’t be in the new trilogy.
But then I thought about it and changed my mind as I was expecting to have a badass all powerful Luke Skywalker. I figured it’d be worth the risk to be able to see a Luke kicking ass. But then we didn’t even get that. Oh well.
I doubt two years ago people would have said they wanted a Luke Skywalker who was living like a hermit in isolation and doesn’t really do anything in the movie as far as Jedi battles go, etc.
The coolest thing I’ve ever seen Luke do (in anything - movie, comic, book, video game, or otherwise) was in TLJ.
I am kind of curious if they’ll end the Poe comic soon. He can only be looking for Lor San Tekka for so long. It’d be nice if they jumped ahead to after TLJ, but I don’t know if they’d allow that sort of thing.
I won’t get into spoilers here obviously but it is interesting that no members of Black Squadron make an appearance in TLJ besides Poe.
Looks like there is a thread for that so let me pose the question in a different way - “what was your least favourite scene or sequence in the film?”
Anyone can answer, and could be interesting to hear specific answers as many criticisms are broad ones.
For me, as much as I like BB8 I would happily say goodbye to the monocle alien feeding him coins and then the pay off scene of firing them at the guard. Also BB8 again, driving the Scout Walker didn’t work for me.
I’ve only seen it once. But my least favorite scene is Luke throwing his lightsaber behind his back in that joking manor. That’s the worst.
He wasn’t joking.
Well, whatever you want to call it. The tossing it behind his back in a goofy manor. It’s not just about being goofy, but also him tossing the lightsaber like it means nothing to him.
I get what they were trying to do. They were trying to have hermit Luke act like a goofball similar to how Yoda acted in Empire.
You don’t understand that scene at all, sorry.
Ok. I plan on watching it again next couple of weeks. And will watch it again on Blu-Ray. Also looking forward to the Johnson commentary track. Really wish JJ had done one
He did, it was the main selling point of the second release.
Oh, I never knew that. I bought the first release as soon as it was on the stores shelves. I did hear there was a second release, but didn’t really pay attention to what that was about. I just knew people were complaining about it.
How is the second release different than the first release? And can you tell on the outside of the Blu-Ray sleeve? I’m going to have to research this.
It also includes all the digital and Target exclusive extras (plus a new deleted scene and a new featurette). And nicer/different packaging. And the 3D Blu-ray.
Thanks. I found it’s called ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens – 3D Collector’s Edition’.
I’m going to pick up a copy. I knew there was a second release, but just heard complaints about it. I didn’t really pay attention because I really didn’t like TFA and was burned out on Star Wars because of that. I was planning on getting into all the new canon comics and read some of the books. But I abandoned that after seeing TFA.
It is a good commentary, I just listened to it a couple weeks ago.
There’s some really good new canon content out there. Whole thread for it here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-Official-Canon-Content-Thread/id/53868
Looks like there is a thread for that so let me pose the question in a different way - “what was your least favourite scene or sequence in the film?”
Anyone can answer, and could be interesting to hear specific answers as many criticisms are broad ones.
For me, as much as I like BB8 I would happily say goodbye to the monocle alien feeding him coins and then the pay off scene of firing them at the guard. Also BB8 again, driving the Scout Walker didn’t work for me.
I’ve only seen it once. But my least favorite scene is Luke throwing his lightsaber behind his back in that joking manor. That’s the worst.
He wasn’t joking.
Well, whatever you want to call it. The tossing it behind his back in a goofy manor. It’s not just about being goofy, but also him tossing the lightsaber like it means nothing to him.
I get what they were trying to do. They were trying to have hermit Luke act like a goofball similar to how Yoda acted in Empire.
You don’t understand that scene at all, sorry.
Ok. I plan on watching it again next couple of weeks. And will watch it again on Blu-Ray. Also looking forward to the Johnson commentary track. Really wish JJ had done one
He did, it was the main selling point of the second release.
Oh, I never knew that. I bought the first release as soon as it was on the stores shelves. I did hear there was a second release, but didn’t really pay attention to what that was about. I just knew people were complaining about it.
How is the second release different than the first release? And can you tell on the outside of the Blu-Ray sleeve? I’m going to have to research this.
It also includes all the digital and Target exclusive extras (plus a new deleted scene and a new featurette). And nicer/different packaging. And the 3D Blu-ray.
I didn’t feel like they went into anymore detail than was needed to set up the scenario. The fuel calculation updates just reminded me of the Death Star countdown (why didn’t the Death Star pop out of hyperspace on the other side of the planet?).
Leia became superwoman - because women are superior and man are inferior, thus Luke has to sit on a rock.
They could have edit the movie after Carrie passed and keep Luke in next one but nope because he is a man;
Ray is more powerful and wiser then Luke, and so is Leia.
Ray is more powerful and wiser then Kylo.
A strong woman.
Poe needs guidance as he is a man and questions women leadership, gets slapped to learn his place.
Fin needs guidance from that asian chick to not be a coward because he is a man.
Luke died and Leia said its fine because we have Ray. Clap.How nice, to sacrifice it all just to empower women, big thanks to Disney & Kathleen Kennedy!
Also big thanks for brining that nonstop cartoon Disney humor, we needed it drown the sorrow.
Harry Potter kid in the end picks up his magic broom (like Mickey Mouse in Fantasia) to clean up the the trash that this movie was.
You know you’ve succeeded when you’ve made the misogynists angry.
It’s funny, I like TLJ and TFA almost the same, but while I can easily name my least favorite parts of TFA, there really aren’t any moments I’d definitively say I dislike from TLJ. I mean, my least favorite stuff is the sequence on Canto Bight, but I still like that sequence, just not as much as the rest of the film.
I don’t know how that restructure is possible. It’d front load the film with almost solely Luke/Rey scenes (there’s only one solo Kylo scene that would work, and the Kylo/Rey scenes would have a continuity issue with his face stitches), which in turn would make the latter parts feel light on those characters.
I’d also kill the propulsive pacing/tension/suspense of the Resistance’s plight that hangs over the film (and adds the urgency to the Rey/Luke stuff).
Well, these are just my thoughts right now, none of it is set in stone.
Wait til you hear that I also want to cut the end scene with the kid and the broom. 😉
Ah yes, the ultimate culmination of Luke’s story (and the Canto Bight subplot and the theme of hope in general).
And why didn’t the one chick that Leia was having a lesbian relationship with tell Poe about their plan to evacuate everyone off of the ship? If they did that then Poe wouldn’t have sent Finn and fat asian chick to get captured and have their plan discovered.
‘and fat Asian chick’ has a name - if you can’t be bothered to learn what it is - then it could likely give the impression you didn’t think too much about your post there. Think twice about using that as a description for another person on this site too.
Same for the ‘one chick that Leia was having a lesbian relationship with’.
Okay? I was unaware that describing someone by their race, gender and body size is bad?
Post edited.
"couldn’t be bothered to learn what her name is"
I wish the movie bothered to make me care.
Rose’s defining characteristics - has a dead sister, doesn’t like animal abuse. Real memorable.
J0E’s defining characteristics: acts like an asshole.