DominicCobb

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

One fear I have about the backlash against TLJ is that Lucasfilm might pull a WB/DC move and make overly reactionary decisions to “fix” things for IX and beyond instead of building on what worked. That was the major problem with both Suicide Squad and Justice League - instead of letting them both run their course and tweaking things from there on out, they made massive changes to both of them throughout production to respond to the criticisms of MoS, BvS, and SS (in the case of JL), resulting in the messy tonal whiplash of SS and the Frankenstein’s mosnter that was JL. I don’t want either of those things to happen with IX.

And before anyone claims that’s what happened with TLJ, it isn’t. TLJ was written and in (pre?) production before TFA even came out. If it was reactionary toward TFA, that was due to Johnson’s response to Abrams’ and Kasdan’s choices in VII, not the audience’s.

Considering the glowing critical reception and box office success, I doubt they’ll let a set of particularly loud fanboys change how they work.

Applying that logic, they are OT “fanboys” and you’re a TLJ “fanboy”?

Or maybe we could just leave the name calling out of it. As has been repeatedly stressed by mods in here - argue the point, don’t attack the person simply stating their opinion.

I don’t consider fanboy an insult. Just a descriptor. A small subset of diehards fans isn’t going to sway the direction of a series that caters to the widest audience of fans of anything out there, anywhere, these days.

DominicCobb said:
I don’t know what it is, maybe I’m tired of all the time I spent defending TFA, but I honestly don’t even think I can bother with trying to respond to a lot of these negative reviews. Maybe it’s the volume, maybe I’m just shocked that there’s even such an outcry to begin with. Our takes on the film are just so different that I honestly don’t know how to bridge that gap, besides just hoping these people see the movie again and get out of it what I, and many others, did. It’s really something.

I’ve also been meaning to ask you for a bit about the above post earlier in this thread - why do you feel the need to defend TLJ by replying to every negative review? Is this not a “review and opinions” thread? I’m for civil discourse on varying opinions as much as the next reasonable person but your position seems to be that you feel obligated to actively fend off negative reviews of this movie, sometimes to the extent of really getting in people’s faces and almost aggressively singling them out when they’re just contributing their point of view to the thread.

I usually find your posts to be pretty good around here Dom but in this thread I’ve seen another side of you that isn’t very pretty.

.Val

Look at my posts and look at how many negative reviews there’ve been. It’s not even close. I respond here and there when I find a complaint particularly egregious or think I can actually reason with someone and show them why I disagree in hopes of possibly swaying their take. For the most part I just ignore, for the reasons I stated in the post you quoted - because for the most part some of the complaints are simply beyond my comprehension.

Also, I don’t know why you feel the need to signal me out. I’m far from the only one defending the film. I won’t lie that I’ve had little to do at work the last couple days which has left me looking for a way to past the time, but I hope I don’t seem aggressive in my rebuttals - unless, of course, someone is being misogynistic or disrespectful to people with mental handicaps. I don’t really know what you mean about seeing another side of me, honestly, unless it’s in regard to that.

Also, if the mods decide to ban me, just know that I don’t take back anything I said when I was calling people out for their backwards bullshit. I’m sorry if I won’t let that stand. If the admin team feels fine with keeping toxic shit in while banning people who speak out against it, I don’t see why I should be visiting this site anyway. If the mods don’t ban me, nice. Let’s try to clean this up.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

You guys need to grow up. Frink isn’t the only who has a problem with that word.

I see the F-word floating around here quite often. In fact I think someone used it just now. I don’t like that one. Shall we compile a list of bad words and agree not to use them, or are we going to continue applying double standards?

I’ll rephrase: grow the fuck up. If you don’t understand the difference between the r-word and the f-word, that’s your problem. Educate yourself, I’m not going to explain it for you.

Yeah, I think someone is crossing some lines here. I won’t dignify this one with an answer…

Fine man. Sorry I can’t respect someone who doesn’t respect others.

I never attacked anyone personally. I disrespected a fictional character. Not the same thing, mate.

Yeah and if I used the n-word to describe a fictional character that’s no problem? You’re missing the point here.

JEDIT: didn’t see your post Wook, sorry. But I don’t take back anything I’ve said.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

You guys need to grow up. Frink isn’t the only who has a problem with that word.

I see the F-word floating around here quite often. In fact I think someone used it just now. I don’t like that one. Shall we compile a list of bad words and agree not to use them, or are we going to continue applying double standards?

I’ll rephrase: grow the fuck up. If you don’t understand the difference between the r-word and the f-word, that’s your problem. Educate yourself, I’m not going to explain it for you.

Yeah, I think someone is crossing some lines here. I won’t dignify this one with an answer…

Fine man. Sorry I can’t respect someone who doesn’t respect others.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

You guys need to grow up. Frink isn’t the only who has a problem with that word.

I see the F-word floating around here quite often. In fact I think someone used it just now. I don’t like that one. Shall we compile a list of bad words and agree not to use them, or are we going to continue applying double standards?

I’ll rephrase: grow the fuck up. If you don’t understand the difference between the r-word and the f-word, that’s your problem. Educate yourself, I’m not going to explain it for you.

SilverWook said:

Pretty sure the random rebel Holdo was talking over the hologram was a guy. 😉

Yeah I edited my post when I realized what you meant…

SilverWook said:

Ackbar could lived long enough to help pilot the ship instead of random rebel #42 though.

I think Ackbar dying was a nice “oh shit” moment though.

You guys need to grow up. Frink isn’t the only who has a problem with that word.

joefavs said:

Another thing to consider RE: the whole “it should have been Ackbar instead of Holdo” argument: sure, the good admiral is a fan favorite, but how receptive would general audiences have been to that subplot if it was a shouting rubber fish man instead of Laura Dern? Ackbar is fun, but I seriously doubt you could get a compelling enough performance out of him to anchor that sort of storyline. It would almost certainly have read as goofy to anyone going into the theater without this weird reverence for Ackbar that we super fans seem to all have.

This is what I was saying. Ackbar in that role would have been absurd.

ChainsawAsh said:

One fear I have about the backlash against TLJ is that Lucasfilm might pull a WB/DC move and make overly reactionary decisions to “fix” things for IX and beyond instead of building on what worked. That was the major problem with both Suicide Squad and Justice League - instead of letting them both run their course and tweaking things from there on out, they made massive changes to both of them throughout production to respond to the criticisms of MoS, BvS, and SS (in the case of JL), resulting in the messy tonal whiplash of SS and the Frankenstein’s mosnter that was JL. I don’t want either of those things to happen with IX.

And before anyone claims that’s what happened with TLJ, it isn’t. TLJ was written and in (pre?) production before TFA even came out. If it was reactionary toward TFA, that was due to Johnson’s response to Abrams’ and Kasdan’s choices in VII, not the audience’s.

Considering the glowing critical reception and box office success, I doubt they’ll let a set of particularly loud fanboys change how they work.

Wexter said:

I now wonder whether if they did a movie based on Raiders Of The Lost Ark, except the protagonist uses an umbrella instead of a whip and actually fails to find the Ark, people would still think it is different and unexpected.

And yes, I am aware that this is a huge hyperbole. Just trying to get the point across.

Wouldn’t it be crazy if they made that movie but in it Indy totally failed and had no impact on the climax

Jeebus said:

I’m feeling like it might be good to close account registrations for a bit.

Yeah, should have been done before TLJ came out.

joefavs said:

DominicCobb said:

Had no idea this site was filled with so many MRA types. What am I even doing here?

Same. I’m seriously considering shopping around for another community. I remember thinking it was bad when TFA came out, but it just keeps getting worse with every new movie.

It’s really bad this time. And sad, I sometimes like this site.

More articles!

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/12/19/yes-rian-johnson-knows-that-people-are-mad-online-about-star-wars

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/12/18/from-vietnam-to-trump-the-last-jedi-as-protest-film

https://www.theringer.com/movies/2017/12/15/16780348/star-wars-last-jedi-kylo-ren-adam-driver-movie-villains

https://filmcrithulk.blog/2017/12/15/the-force-belongs-to-us-the-last-jedis-beautiful-refocusing-of-star-wars/

Had no idea this site was filled with so many MRA types. What am I even doing here?

A nice spoiler chat with Rian
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-star-wars-last-jedi-spoilers-20171218-htmlstory.html

Nandi said:

TV’s Frink said:

This thread is somehow even worse than the other “Mark Hamill is sick!” thread.

I’m guessing the video was selectively edited by a woman though, right?

Clip is still a better edit then some “ridicilous” edits… which is not a hard thing to do when someone lacks humor 😉

Let us know when you make something worth watching.

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Not really the point. Women have always been the smart ones in command in Star Wars.

Point is, telling someone to go away because you disagree with them is not a valid argument.

There are exactly 4 women with speaking roles in the OT. Three of them have less than a minute of screen time.

He said to fire Kennedy because she has an agenda. I don’t see why I should have to make a valid argument when he isn’t either. Calling for her to be fired is just as inflaming, if not more so.

https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/18/16792184/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rotten-tomatoes-review-bomb

Mithrandir said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Look, I don’t know how you personally treat women, but as far as myself, and I can only speak for myself, women do have equal footing by default. Any attempt to proactively give it to them feels and seems an intrusion in a fairy tale to me.

I regret to inform you that I live in the real world, and how I treat women does not necessarily go for the rest of my gender.

To take everything in Star Wars as a fairy tale is to ignore all the other (more modern) influences at play.

I have no complaints whatsoever with Rey being a female protagonist. In fact in seven it just felt right, it felt…casual, which is the best way it is supposed to feel. Normal.

But when you have 3 films released, all with female protagonists and even a last one where you have Rey, Leia, and the admiral character, which all happen to be right where men are wrong, and the underlying tone of the movie is “get off the old world” it just ceases to be “good” femminism and starts to become a misandric manifesto. Male torso is “sexually agressive” to Rey, etc.

In anycase, reacting to a film I don’t like based on its contents and complaining about the creative direction they are heading, which actually I hope we pretty much agree is diametrically opposite in terms of values to what Lucas intended to do back then, is one thing. Reacting to a member on this very community by saying things you don’t like feels like another.

So, in best faith and being completely honest, don’t you fire yourself from this thread. Neither will I. Learn to live with those that challenge your in your own neighbourhood.

I’m sorry I don’t take kindly to secret misogynists trying to promote an agenda (by claiming that Star Wars and LFL is when they’re really just reflecting the real world). Maybe I’ll try not to be so harsh but you can’t expect me to rationally agree with backwards bullshit. So I’ll guess I’ll just step back from it.

Hal 9000 said:

joefavs said:

Hal 9000 said:

If there were no shot of the books at the end of the film, is Yoda a book burner?

But there is a shot of the books at the end! “If that scene wasn’t there,” “if you stop watching before that scene,” “if you don’t catch the books,” . . . at a certain point you need to stop bringing up hypotheticals. It’s in the movie. “What if it wasn’t” isn’t a terribly useful question. You could say that about anything else in any movie and completely change whatever you want.

I’m just trying to understand the scene with Yoda. I need to understand what the scene is about and what I means to a hypothetical first time viewer who is really keyed in and picks up everything there is to pick up before advancing toward the end of the film. My suspicion is still that the shot at the end is supposed to be a retroactive fakeout that radically alters that part of the narrative in a way that I find very annoying.

It seems that the Yoda scene very clearly portrays Luke and Yoda as coming together to smile on the drestruction of the Jedi texts, with hope that Rey will be fine without them.

I feel like I already explained this.

You, like Luke, are ascribing too much importance to a bunch of old books. They’re still useful of course (that’s why Rey takes them), but it’s the putting too much stock in them that’s the issue.

There is a shot of her closing the compartment that she put the bag in when she’s left Ahch-to.

Hal 9000 said:

Granted. But… ? sly, playful wink

Considering his age, I think it’s very possible at one point in his life he burned at least one book.

Also, it’s possible that Luke had a book on moisture farming in there that Rey found boring and irrelevant and left behind in the tree.

darthrush said:

TavorX said:

I believe the shot of those books should stay not just because of what was been mentioned already, but it may send the wrong message when you’ve got the baddie Kylo Ren saying, “Let the past die, kill it” and then we’re led to think Yoda just ‘killed’ the past. Rey saving those books means both her and Yoda won’t let the past die.

I always saw the letting go of the past as something both sides did but in the evil and good way. Kylo kills his past so as to forget the love of his former friends and family so as to gain power. Our heroes are meant to learn and not dwell on the past and to rise above our past mistakes. Two very different sides of the coin of letting go of the past. Another element of “balance” in the film.

I agree, but I think there’s a difference between simply moving on from the past and killing it and everything it stood for.

Hal 9000 said:

If there were no shot of the books at the end of the film, is Yoda a book burner?

That’s not really the point.

TavorX said:

RE: Rey keeping the books

Perhaps we can interpret it as Luke, a Force user, that has studied the ways the Force was taught and found its flaws but chose inaction; these books should be burned. Rey on the other hand is going to study the flaws of how the Force was taught but choose action and actually apply her wisdom, whether that means redeeming Kylo or craft a new Force Order, or both. Hence these books will have value because it offers a baseline of guidance, but not strict code for future generations.

Pretty much yes.