Just because the characters say things doesn’t mean that that’s what the film itself is saying.
I sure hope Rey isn’t related to anyone important though.
I don’t see any reason to doubt that.
But Luke changes his tune after his conversation with Yoda, returns to save his friends, WITHOUT killing Kylo, leaving the door open for his possible redemption, and goes out expressing hope that Rey will get the Jedi going again after all. He strayed for the seven or so years between Kylo’s fall and the start of the ST, but by the end of the movie his faith in the Jedi is restored. The beginning of the movie deconstructs the whole Jedi thing, sure, but I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing that the last act reconstructs it.
Exactly! People seem to take all of Luke’s harsh words on the Jedi early on as if they’re the gospel according to Rian Johnson. Same goes for Kylo Ren and his new motto (“let the past die, kill it if you have to.”).
Just because the characters say things doesn’t mean that that’s what the film itself is saying.
Complete disregard of Vader as a character after he had already been set up in TFA as a major influencer and inspiration to Kylo. After a few mean words from Snoke, Kylo smashes his helmet to pieces, symbolically smashing his obsessed Vader-like aspirations and everything that had been set up in the previous movie. Trying to delete Vader from a Skywalker-saga SW movie is like trying to delete Hitler from a WWII documentary. Can’t you wait until you get you start your own non-Skywalker SW trilogy, Rian?
General Hux was set up, almost literally, as a young ascendant Hitler in TFA. Now he is the butt of silly tone-deaf jokes? I thought Kathleen Kennedy was supposed to be supervising Rian?
Snoke’s comment about the Dark in Rey and the Light
Kylo, Yoda, and Luke all talked about destroying the past. I didn’t really mind this at all until I realized the second, much deeper meaning of this dialog was that Rian Johnson was ACTUALLY COMMENTING ABOUT THE PAST STAR WARS MOVIES THEMSELVES WITHIN THE MOVIE HE WAS COMMISSIONED TO DIRECT! He was literally talking about destroying all the Star Wars tropes that came before HIS movie.
The movie almost feels like Rian Johnson hates J.J. Abrams. “Oh you created Poe to be a hero, you think Snoke should be an important character, you want Rey’s bloodlines to be important, you probably wanted Luke to be a more heroic character, you wanted Vader’s presence to be felt through his inspiration of Kylo? Well I am going to kill the past because this is MY movie! Oh… And I bet you thought the Knights of Ren was a cool idea too. Well, fuck you about that too.”I do think there is a good Star Wars movie in there somewhere utilizing TLJ footage as a rough cut.
I agree with your long post and these couple paragraphs nail it
Thanks! I probably should have made the post a little briefer, but thanks for reading!
How about Poe’s character though? It feels like they took a hero from TFA and turned him into one of those commercials you see every day on TV where the wife is the clever one and the husband is barely smart enough to chew his food and would be lost without her. (Because of course, it would be highly offensive if the wife was made stupid.) Disclaimer: I am HUGELY in favor of women and diversity in SW–as stated in my post, but don’t take a character who has already been established as a competent heroic leader make him a moron simply to fulfill a feminist agenda.
Yeah, I felt Oscar Isacc has been wasted so far. Probably the most talented of the new cast, along with Adam Driver, but his character is almost non-existent as far as how much he moves the plot forward.
Poe has a pretty big part in TLJ. Characters aren’t just important insofar as how they relate to the plot (and he still plays a part in that too).
- Only because I’d already be editing the film at this point and not because this is in any way called for, try to have the first scene with Luke appear overcast as TFA was. Whatever filter used to achieve this could be gradually faded out over the course of the sequence.
This is something I want to do too. It’s obviously a clear indication of ‘it’s a different film, so it’s stylistically different,’ but it still kinda nags at me.
- If deleted scenes make this possible, give Rey her promised third lesson from Luke.
One change that might be cool (no idea if possible) is to have Luke say something like “ten lessons,” instead of three. Then change his second lesson to his fourth or something. Just to make it seem like there’s more happening off screen.
- Possibly remove the dice from the end. I guess it’s there to make you think Luke is physically present, then Leia leaves them behind, and then they disappear? I don’t know. It was one last thing to not understand in the movie. (Just kidding; the Jedi texts make a split second cameo after this point. Speaking of them, I won’t remove them because I’m sure they’ll play a role in XI, and people will ask how Rey has them just like people ask where 3PO’s red arm went in VIII.)
I guess Leia knows it’s not actually him, that’s why she leaves the dice. When Kylo picks them up, it’s like with Rey closing the door on him. It’s a little ambiguous of course, but my take is that Rey and Luke know that deep down Kylo still has Ben in him and he yearns for the connection with her and his parents (despite what he says), but they can’t keep trying to turn him if he isn’t going to put the effort in. So they close the door, they rob him of the memento; he has to decide for himself if he wants to hold on or not.
As for the books, I think I’ll shut up about those. I’m really hoping someone can work magic and make C-3PO’s arm red throughout the trilogy (apparently JJ made it gold again because Anthony Daniels hated it).
It sounds to me that Hamill was being truthful when he said that he initially had doubts with Rian’s version of Luke, and he’s being truthful here when he says that the movie is nevertheless great.
He doesn’t strike me as the sort of person to lie; he probably just regrets giving cover to angry fanboys.
Yeah, exactly. Hamill clearly doesn’t care about toeing the company line or whatever (neither did Carrie or Harrison), so I don’t know why he’d make this statement if not for clarification.
The other thing is people are acting like he only said this after he saw the film. I’ve read/heard interviews with him saying similar stuff months ago, about having reservations initially then coming around to and appreciating Rian’s vision.
Hamill on twitter
I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill
Though of course he was forced by Disney to say this!
Hamill never really took back what he said about not liking what was written for his character. He said he regretted saying those things. He has always said that the movie is fantastic, he never said otherwise. What people are highlighting in videos, etc. is how he didn’t like the character of Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi, and I don’t think that’s something hard to believe. In fact that’s in several ways what I think. And he didn’t take that back here, he simply stated that he regrets voicing it in public.
That’s not really what he’s saying though. He’s not saying he dislikes Luke’s character in TLJ, just that he had a different idea of what the character’s story should be. He’s only saying he regrets saying it because people have misunderstood his message.
I don’t think he’s changed his tune at all since making the film, that’s the point. He was just being honest about his initial reservations with the script, and people on the internet (not understanding nuance, as usual) have misconstrued that into him hating the film and Rian Johnson too.
Hamill on twitter
I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill
Though of course he was forced by Disney to say this!
it’s the second time we heard that track in the film (trying to reduce this kind of repetitive tracking), and second because this is the birth of Vader - let’s hear his march.
I love that I don’t know this, but when does the track appear earlier in ROTS?
When we first see the battle on Kashyyyk. It’s actually an unused cue from the arena in AOTC. I’m going to try to make it a sort of motif for the clones/clone wars in that film, if I can.
Thanks guys
The music is great, but I think that as soon as it starts to ramp up the intensity you should make it a little quieter because Yoda gets kind of hard to hear.
Yeah, I’ll probably try a different mix and post it sometime soon.
Alright, now for my biggest change (easily my most radical edit idea for any of these). As far as I know, I’ve never seen anyone do this (correct me if I’m wrong), but when I decided to make an edit, I came to realize this is something I’d have to do.
When I was a kid, the Order 66 sequence really worked for me. I don’t know why, probably because I was familiar with all the Jedi characters from the animated Clone Wars and a couple books I’d read (and from my own adventures with their action figures) and also probably because John Williams owns it (as usual). Problem is, you have to take the films on their own, and in that case, the music and the emotion of the whole montage is way out of whack with our investment in these non-characters. Plus, I feel like cutting around to random planets that we’ve never seen before is rather un-Star Wars. Basically, the sequence had to go.
So, without further rambling, here’s my rough radical edit of the Order 66 “montage” (not so much anymore) with a couple music changes thrown in:
https://vimeo.com/248689159
pw: rotsAdded bonus: the Jedi don’t all die in one day
I like it, but I have a soft spot for the march on the Jedi temple Song, so I’m not sure how I feel about that part.
Understandable, it’s a great cue and works well in the scene. However, in my mind, it had to go. First because it’s the second time we heard that track in the film (trying to reduce this kind of repetitive tracking), and second because this is the birth of Vader - let’s hear his march.
The rest was great, but the original music is still heard when we transition back to the Jedi temple and to Kashyyk, but I’m pretty sure you know it already and that it’ll be fixed. Great job! (love the color correction)
Yeah I’ll have to completely recreate the sfx in the temple. The idea with Kashyyyk is that it ultimately blends in with the existing music, though I’ve cleaned up this transition a bit since I posted that clip.
There’s a difference between the force being for anyone and the force being for everyone.
Hello everyone.
I have just coined a new term:
fanbros
for those fanboys who need the male characters in a story to always be unambiguously the most competent ones, no exceptions - although don’t get them wrong, of course they still like women, and of course they still like strong female characters, just not too many of them
I found a new term also:
Pussyboysfanmob
nice to see sjw mob is in full strength again :hi5:
Thanks for confirming that I nailed it, fanbro.
Hello everyone.
I have just coined a new term:
for those fanboys who need the male characters in a story to always be unambiguously the most competent ones, no exceptions - although don’t get them wrong, of course they still like women, and of course they still like strong female characters, just not too many of them
YouTube likes and dislikes are an indication of a good movie or a bad movie now? Ok.
Could be an indication of public opinion though, which is what he’s talking about, not the quality of the movie.
Not general public, a specific subset.
Yeah, I saw Ran in college and was absolutely floored by it. I’ll have to revisit it sometime soon. Other than that and Throne of Blood, I’ve only seen The Hidden Fortress and Yojimbo, so I’ve got some catching up to do.
One thing I’ll say about Throne of Blood is that the scenes with the ghost/spirit/witch/whatever you want to call it were genuinely terrifying. Just thinking about it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Absolutely delicious filmmaking.
Seven Samurai and Rashomon are obviously (and rightfully) must watches. If you liked Ran, you’ll probably like Kagemusha, and if you liked Yojimbo, you’ll definitely like Sanjuro.
I think the only other one of his I’ve seen besides is Drunken Angel, which is a solid early one. I’ve been meaning to watch more of his, but it’s hard when I don’t have Netflix discs anymore. FilmStruck has been looking mighty pretty…
Only 365 days away!
I don’t see any issue with the Knights of Ren not being mentioned in TLJ. There are plenty of things that are giving a passing mention in the SW films that aren’t expanded upon immediately.
Anyway, I’m pretty sure they are mentioned in TLJ - Luke says Ben and a “handful” of his students burned down the temple. I figure that’s them.
Now, would it be weird if they don’t show up at all in the ST? Yeah, it would be, definitely. But would it really be bullshit, and is it really that big an omission that they’re not in TLJ at all? No, of course not. This is another case of fans expecting certain things based on the countless speculative listicles that popped up in 2015 that gave relatively minor aspects of TFA an over enlarged importance. If they factor into the story of IX, great. If they don’t, that’s too bad, but I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.
>> Before your post like this
hi
Quote this to see how it looks
The stick fight? He was still avoiding using the Force at that point. He only used it to break his fall.
She loses the stick fight actually, it’s only when her stick is knocked out of her hand and she cheats by drawing her saber that Luke falls over.
These might be spoilers. You guys should edit your posts too.
The music is great, but I think that as soon as it starts to ramp up the intensity you should make it a little quieter because Yoda gets kind of hard to hear.
Yeah, I’ll probably try a different mix and post it sometime soon.
Alright, now for my biggest change (easily my most radical edit idea for any of these). As far as I know, I’ve never seen anyone do this (correct me if I’m wrong), but when I decided to make an edit, I came to realize this is something I’d have to do.
When I was a kid, the Order 66 sequence really worked for me. I don’t know why, probably because I was familiar with all the Jedi characters from the animated Clone Wars and a couple books I’d read (and from my own adventures with their action figures) and also probably because John Williams owns it (as usual). Problem is, you have to take the films on their own, and in that case, the music and the emotion of the whole montage is way out of whack with our investment in these non-characters. Plus, I feel like cutting around to random planets that we’ve never seen before is rather un-Star Wars. Basically, the sequence had to go.
So, without further rambling, here’s my rough radical edit of the Order 66 “montage” (not so much anymore) with a couple music changes thrown in:
https://vimeo.com/248689159
pw: rots
Added bonus: the Jedi don’t all die in one day
What I don’t like are female characters – or really, characters in general – who have little to no flaws and are nearly perfect at what they do without any rationale behind their perfection.
So I guess you were in the bathroom for the part where the entire second act was predicated on Rey fucking up then.
I haven’t watched TLJ and I won’t watch TLJ.
I don’t know how you can espouse an opinion on TLJ with a straight face, then.
Come on joe, don’t be silly, you don’t have to see the film to know they emasculated Luke and made Rey god queen of the galaxy.
Wait, do we all agree that he died of exhaustion then? I took him getting back upright to mean that he didn’t die from over exertion, but rather that he sort of “leveled up”. It’s not that the Force projection bit took so much out of him that he had to die, it’s that he transcended time and space and achieved Force godhood.
I think it can be both. He exhausted his mortal form.
I cannot tell if that last post was was couched in enough irony to keep Duracell from sucking now.
Doesn’t seem so, unfortunately.
Anyway, I’d like to see James McAvoy as Luke and that one Stranger Things kid as Ben Solo in this hypothetical interquel.
Finn Wolfhard? I buy it. Not sure you could recast Luke.
too many competent male characters, to ever make it into a Kennedyfilm production unmolested.
Oh, so you’re one of those people…
LOVED it. Beautiful film. Up there with his best (though quite different!).
See it on 70mm if you can.
I like that he got back up. Died on his own terms, with the force calling to him, just as it did once before.
Seeing tonight!