DominicCobb

I guess call me crazy but I just legitimately don’t understand the “lack of cohesion” complaints. The two films are different, sure, but not anymore so than a second part should be. I feel like the ST is well on it’s way to being a very cohesive set of films telling one story across three films.

I think, for example, the difference between TFA and TLJ is far less drastic than, say, the difference between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. And I think it’s about on par with the differences between the original Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back (this is something that can be really hard to wrap your head around if you only ever knew them together - I can attest to this from experience).

Jeebus said:

SilverWook said:

Frank your Majesty said:

Yes. If Kylo would have lied to her, he wouldn’t have said that she already knows it and then be surprised that she didn’t.

I don’t buy that her parents are dead and buried on Jakku. Why did she have this flashback in the middle of her experiecning visions after touching Luke’s saber in TFA? It’s the only thing she recognizes and has nothing (seemingly) to do with Luke.

Honestly, I think it’s just because the trilogy wasn’t planned out. JJ thought that Rey’s parents should be important, Rian felt differently.

I disagree, the trilogy definitely wasn’t planned out but I think all evidence points to JJ having the “nobody” thing in mind.

Since I don’t feel like going over it again, this is my take on the TFA force back (I should repost myself more to save my sanity):

I’m not saying the “force back” as they call it is perfectly done. I think it’s a little messy and lacks a solid flow. But I have no problem with what it represents - the force. The light, and the dark. The ship leaving Jakku is part of the dark side, tapping into Rey’s fears of abandonment and isolation. TLJ makes this connection explicit.

Anchorhead said:

Valheru_84 said:
It was a dose of the medicine he’d just given Dre. If he can give it then he can take it as well.

DominicCobb said:
Next time you act like a dick to another poster, that’s exactly what I’ll do.

That’s not going to end well for either of you.

I’m not sure if I understand, are you saying if I report Val for attacking another member I’ll get in trouble?

Swap genders and you have a movie that is in no way out of the ordinary (in fact it would be much more ordinary in some ways!). There is nothing radical about TLJ.

I would like to declare that I have never read a James Patterson novel.

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:
It’s clear you’re overly emotional about this movie and taking out your anger on other posters. I should have just reported you to the mods instead of engaging. Next time you act like a dick to another poster, that’s exactly what I’ll do.

I AM emotional about this movie, it fucking ruined Star Wars for me as I knew it. I now have to maintain my own head canon that won’t gell with other family and friends I go to talk about it with that don’t see it as I do and now I have nothing new to look forward to that carries on what I love in the OT.

Respectfully, it might be a good idea in that case to take a break and calm down a little.

What I find funny is when people say that there’s a feminist agenda mandated by Kathleen Kennedy.

As if JJ and Rian couldn’t possibly be feminists.

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

joefavs said:

So even though he ultimately decided the scene didn’t work and changed the film accordingly, you’re still upset at him for having the idea in the first place? I’m sorry, but that’s pretty weak.

I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak. It’s pretty obvious in both the initial post you replied to and the below one that he is not just talking about that one deleted scene.

DrDre said:
Yes, but it betrays RJ’s feelings and intentions going into this. So, he’s taken off some of the sharper edges, but he still turned the Jedi’s 1000 generation legacy of peace and justice, and the OT’s theme of hope and redemption into a legacy of failure for both the Jedi and Luke personally. It’s more revisionist than Lucas has ever done.

I think your powers of being able to engage in a civil discussion without acting rude and immature are pretty weak.

Says the one that admits to being snarky whenever they reply.

This:

“I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak.”

is not “being snarky.”

It’s just straight up hostile and nasty.

No I was calling you a hypocrite.

And my response to Joe was not hostile nor nasty. It was a dose of the medicine he’d just given Dre. If he can give it then he can take it as well. I thought Dre made a valiant and fair point, Joe simply tried to shut him down and outright dismiss his opinion which I shared so Joe might as well have directed it at me as well.

Yeah, in hindsight I could have approached it differently. So could have you who replicated the behaviour you were taking issue with? Hmm…

Wasn’t hostile or nasty? Dose of the same medicine? What the hell are you talking about? Joe’s been nothing of a model of good behavior, which is far more than I can say for you or most people in this thread (including myself). I feel like the only crime he did in your eyes was liking the movie in the first place. It’s telling that you haven’t responded to him since he clarified his point.

It’s clear you’re overly emotional about this movie and taking out your anger on other posters. I should have just reported you to the mods instead of engaging. Next time you act like a dick to another poster, that’s exactly what I’ll do.

Valheru_84 said:

Also I see since you couldn’t incite a reaction from me in the other thread that your wife coincidentally had to have a go at me as well… (I understand ‘Frank your Majesty’ is your wife? If not I will edit my post accordingly)

Excuse me!

chyron8472 said:

Okay, yes, I now realize I mixed which post he was quoting, because I posted again before he quoted me and I thought he quoted the second one. But my point still stands. Telling people they need to stop name calling does not not-further-discussion if it encourages people to actually be civil.

But don’t you see that my post was basically saying the same thing? (i.e. calling someone’s reading comprehension skills weak is a rude and uncivil way to engage in discussion)

So please, let’s be civil and get back on topic.

Agreed

SilverWook said:

Nobody start anything. It would unfortunate if the thread had to be locked.

I’m not trying to, trust me. People are seeing things that aren’t there and putting words in my mouth.

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

joefavs said:

So even though he ultimately decided the scene didn’t work and changed the film accordingly, you’re still upset at him for having the idea in the first place? I’m sorry, but that’s pretty weak.

I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak. It’s pretty obvious in both the initial post you replied to and the below one that he is not just talking about that one deleted scene.

DrDre said:
Yes, but it betrays RJ’s feelings and intentions going into this. So, he’s taken off some of the sharper edges, but he still turned the Jedi’s 1000 generation legacy of peace and justice, and the OT’s theme of hope and redemption into a legacy of failure for both the Jedi and Luke personally. It’s more revisionist than Lucas has ever done.

I think your powers of being able to engage in a civil discussion without acting rude and immature are pretty weak.

Says the one that admits to being snarky whenever they reply.

This:

“I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak.”

is not “being snarky.”

It’s just straight up hostile and nasty.

Or we can try to stop being toxic altogether.

I don’t see anything wrong with calling someone out for lowering the level of discourse.

Like, attacking me for saying I need to rewatch the film by insinuating that my simply saying so makes me a hypocrite.

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

joefavs said:

So even though he ultimately decided the scene didn’t work and changed the film accordingly, you’re still upset at him for having the idea in the first place? I’m sorry, but that’s pretty weak.

I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak. It’s pretty obvious in both the initial post you replied to and the below one that he is not just talking about that one deleted scene.

I think your powers of being able to engage in a civil discussion without acting rude and immature are pretty weak.

I think that calling each other (or each other’s arguments) “weak” is not actually helping to further the discussion, but tantamount to name calling.

And what does this post do, exactly, that helps further the discussion?

It discusses my current state of mind about the film.

Does it?

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

joefavs said:

So even though he ultimately decided the scene didn’t work and changed the film accordingly, you’re still upset at him for having the idea in the first place? I’m sorry, but that’s pretty weak.

I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak. It’s pretty obvious in both the initial post you replied to and the below one that he is not just talking about that one deleted scene.

DrDre said:
Yes, but it betrays RJ’s feelings and intentions going into this. So, he’s taken off some of the sharper edges, but he still turned the Jedi’s 1000 generation legacy of peace and justice, and the OT’s theme of hope and redemption into a legacy of failure for both the Jedi and Luke personally. It’s more revisionist than Lucas has ever done.

I think your powers of being able to engage in a civil discussion without acting rude and immature are pretty weak.

Says the one that admits to being snarky whenever they reply.

This:

“I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak.”

is not “being snarky.”

It’s just straight up hostile and nasty.

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

joefavs said:

So even though he ultimately decided the scene didn’t work and changed the film accordingly, you’re still upset at him for having the idea in the first place? I’m sorry, but that’s pretty weak.

I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak. It’s pretty obvious in both the initial post you replied to and the below one that he is not just talking about that one deleted scene.

I think your powers of being able to engage in a civil discussion without acting rude and immature are pretty weak.

I think that calling each other (or each other’s arguments) “weak” is not actually helping to further the discussion, but tantamount to name calling.

And what does this post do, exactly, that helps further the discussion?

yhwx said:

TPM was pretty light, even if it was not intentional.

You think it was lighter than the original?

TV’s Frink said:

VIII and R1 weren’t serious film?

Sure.

But there were Marvel jokes Frink! Duh!

Valheru_84 said:

joefavs said:

So even though he ultimately decided the scene didn’t work and changed the film accordingly, you’re still upset at him for having the idea in the first place? I’m sorry, but that’s pretty weak.

I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak. It’s pretty obvious in both the initial post you replied to and the below one that he is not just talking about that one deleted scene.

DrDre said:
Yes, but it betrays RJ’s feelings and intentions going into this. So, he’s taken off some of the sharper edges, but he still turned the Jedi’s 1000 generation legacy of peace and justice, and the OT’s theme of hope and redemption into a legacy of failure for both the Jedi and Luke personally. It’s more revisionist than Lucas has ever done.

I think your powers of being able to engage in a civil discussion without acting rude and immature are pretty weak.

MalàStrana said:

DominicCobb said:
I believe it. Looks like the right direction too. This is Fun Star Wars.

Have you heard about LFL firing the previous directors for making a comedy out of it ?

I don’t really feel comfortable speculating why exactly they were fired at this point, but I think a comedic bent was always imagined for this film, they just probably took it too far.

(it’s not as if VII-VIII-R1 were that serious movies by the way. A SW which is “fun” is hardly something new)

No shit. But I imagine Solo will be the lightest SW film since the original (or maybe the lightest ever).

Whoever made it, it seems to be culled from official images at least.

Why would you want to cut the opening space battle anyway?

joefavs said:

Alleged first official image, from an upcoming magazine story:

I believe it. Looks like the right direction too. This is Fun Star Wars.

dahmage said:

I can accept that they are ‘part of the thinking’, but it is disingenuous to act as if they hold the same weight as something that wasn’t cut. What is onscreen is what is used to tell the story, what was cut held ideas of the story, but they might have been redundant, or too strong, or too weak, or too whatever, when the film was assembled.

Yeah, pretty much. Ultimately what’s in the film is what was decided tells the story best. That a scene was cut could mean anything from it wasn’t necessary, to it was necessary to cut.

Without having seen the scene (or having heard Rian’s take on it), it’s kind of a silly discussion to have.

Not entirely, no.

In some ways I think people just weren’t prepared for the ST to actually be a thing.

Because the thing with the ST in relation to the OT, is I think (personally) they had no choice but to look inward and challenge Luke and the Jedi in someway. Because otherwise, what’s the conflict? You can’t have a story without a conflict (it can’t be the adventures of happy go lucky Luke, Leia and Han like the old EU books were).

You can’t really do an extragalatical threat like the Vong, because that’s not really Star Wars. Star Wars is about our world, and to do that would be to make an alien invasion movie, which would move SW from mythic but grounded to straight up sci-fi.

So what’s grounded? What would cause a trilogy long conflict? Well, as in real life and in myth, you get this idea of history repeating itself. But it’s not just Empire vs. Rebels v2, at least I don’t see it that way. You can’t just continue the simple good vs. bad that the OT did. You have to look deeper. By reintroducing a similar conflict, we get to actually look at the fight and ask what are they really fighting for? If more problems are arising, we need to ask, what are the Jedi really? What is their place in this? Especially after the PT (where the Jedi are quite shit, honestly), we have to ask, are the Jedi really helping? Even if the answer is yes (and it is), I think those questions need to be asked. And I love that it’s Luke asking them. He’s so idealistic in the OT he never gets the chance to stop and think it through. And so of course, when the dark side comes back, he finds himself in crisis.

But that’s the thing, to have an ST, we needed the dark side to come back. I don’t think there was any other way. I get why some people wanted the OT’s fairy tale ending to be the end of it, but the truth is, the moment the ST was announced that fairy tale ending disappeared. And yeah, I guess there were other ways to tell an ST story that didn’t so ruin the fairy tale. But I don’t think those kinds of stories would really be all that worth telling. They’d be fun in a light and breezy way, like a superhero sequel, but I think a Star Wars saga film needs to be more than that. It needs to really be worth it. And to be worth it, it had to face some hard truths about fairy tale endings, namely that they don’t really exist. Things don’t stay good forever. I think the heart of this whole trilogy goes back to what Maz said in TFA. Through the ages, there’s only one ever really been one fight: against the dark side. It doesn’t just go away when one threat goes away. You always have to face it, fight it.

And so that’s really what the ST is about. The OT was super optimistic and idealistic, good vs. bad, good wins. So it’s a little depressing when the bad comes back, sure. Fighting evil isn’t that simple. But learning that just helps you to look inward and double down on your resolve, as Luke ultimately does.