They drop a hint early on that certain uses of the force can result in death (Kylo Ren: “You’re not doing this, the effort would kill you.”).
Ok
.Dom
Important to remember (not just in regards to this but everything)
https://www.avclub.com/star-wars-fans-should-remember-being-a-fan-doesnt-mea-1821431113
Valheru_84 said:
He’s just an outright fuckhead
Okay man, glad to see you’re handling this well.
Hal 9000 said:
… the finished film in isolation would imply to me that he was just not interested in carrying on the themes and setups the previous film gave him to work with.We’re not the only ones to have an issue with his desire to put the franchise on its ear. There is an interview with Daisy where she says as soon as she read the script she went to Rian and said “we need to have a talk about what’s happening here”.
I wasn’t interested in several parts of JJ’s film, Snoke and Phasma among them. However, Rian just discarding them seems lazy and/or disrespectful to all the work that went into them in TFA; actors, designers, costumers, writers,etc. They were presented as major characters, much to the delight of a huge portion of the fan base. All the fan speculation the past two years was all for nothing.
Rian treated them the way major characters are treated on Game Of Thrones - You found the character and their story interesting? - too bad. That’s the main reason I stopped watching GoT. It became a waste of time. I’m not terribly interested in the ST. But I am glad it’s back in the hands of JJ.
I think the problem here is a misperception. Neither Snoke nor Phasma were a big part in JJ’s film (in fact I’d bet their combined screen time is under 10 minutes). They were only ever important insofar as how they relate to Kylo Ren and Finn’s characters, respectively. I don’t see how RJ betrays that in anyway, all he does is acknowledge that Kylo and Finn have moved beyond them. And killing them isn’t tossing them aside or being respectful to them - honestly both their parts were much more interesting and consequential to the story this time around.
Snoke didn’t have much screen time but it was made obvious that he plays a massive part in the overarching back story as to the events unfolding in the ST.
He’s an integral part to Kylo’s character and made to be a bigger threat than the emperor in TLJ. By killing him off so suddenly without providing any explanation to the no doubt hundreds of various questions people had come up with in the initial viewing and subsequent 2 years wait in between, his threat became a wisp of smoke (Snoke might as well have been as thin as smoke for all the depth he was given in the end)
Why should we care at the end of TLJ if Snoke is a threat? Obviously he isn’t, how could he be, he’s dead.
and by extension massively compromised and lessened both Kylo’s threat and his depth of character due to all the possible branches of story between him and Snoke that much got killed off in the process.
I don’t see how that makes any sense. If you thought he was a bigger threat than the Emperor, and then Kylo killed him, how does that make Kylo less of a threat? It does the literal opposite of that.
I don’t get this “possible branches of story,” it was clear what their relationship was. Snoke turned Kylo to the dark side. Where Snoke came from doesn’t change that fact in any way. What Snoke wanted was for Kylo to be his Vader-like lackey. That was the only future for their story if Snoke lived. Now that he’s dead, Kylo’s story can go anywhere.
It’s cool, but the CG environment really gives it away. I don’t think you could integrate it into the film very well.
(I also don’t agree with their approach to the duel but that aspect is well done)
People realize how easy it is to “fly” in space right? You don’t have to to be Superman or Mary Poppins. It’s space. People realize this, right? Right?
If you’re going to remind people how space actually works then you need to explain how she didn’t die from it’s vacuum, how they opened the door she appeared at without decompressing that entire area and shooting Leia back out into space. Why was Rose’s sister not in a space suit when in the bomber bay that was exposed to space? Why did the bombs drop as if reacting to gravity?
If you’re watching Star Wars for accurate space physics then you’re watching the wrong movie. Might as well edit out all the sounds and explosions from all the other films if that’s the way you feel about it.
That’s exactly the point I was making.
These are all obvious plot holes anyway but regardless of the fairly casual approach to space facts in its sci-fi that SW normally takes, these are all stepping far beyond the edge of plausibility and straight into suspension of disbelief zone for anyone with the simplest knowledge of how things work in space.
I just don’t see how you can argue a point (so snidely / sarcastically as well) by calling out the obviousness of how easy it would be to move yourself in space with the force but then ignore the in-your-face issues applying such logic creates for so many other areas of the movie and from someone that says it’s a great movie…
.Val
Plot holes are the lowest form of criticism. One of the worst things about the internet is it thinks you can judge the quality of a movie based on how many plot holes it has (blame Cinemasins, I suppose). That’s wrong.
If they’re big and obvious enough they can very well ruin a movie. In this case they don’t directly impact the story and are very minor quibbles alongside the real issues with this movie. I was just pointing out that if you’re going to argue from a point of logic and fact in regards to how things work in space, you have to acknowledge the other things that aren’t correct in the movie which follow the theme of inconsistency and forgetting the rules when it suits.
You’re point doesn’t make sense? So if Star Wars doesn’t follow all the laws of physics that means there should be gravity in space and that’s why Leia’s moment is unbelievable? The lack of caring for physics only goes one way in storytelling.
It’s one thing when the movie skirts the rules or logic to tell a more interesting story (every movie does it). It’s another thing when a fan makes up a rule (“you can’t fly in space! that’s ridiculous!”) and uses illogic to form a complaint.
DominicCobb said:
Also, I’m snarky/sarcastic about everything. That’s just who I am.Fair enough, don’t be surprised though when people reply in kind or are rightly agitated by your tone if it’s not warranted.
.Val
Yeah I never said I wasn’t fine with that. Bring on the snark, haters.
Looking for feedback on this one. This is a change I’ve wanted to make for a long time, and I’m really happy with the way it works for the first half of this clip, but when the music kicks into higher gear half way through, I’m not sure. Let me know what you think, does it work like this, or should I fade it out earlier?
https://vimeo.com/248610489
pw: rots
Anyone else hear shades of Back to the Future in some of the more upbeat renditions of Rose’s theme?
Yeah, I’ve been thinking this.
The objective reality is that Rogue One was redone and the directors of episode 9 and the Han Solo spinoff film were fired for making something Disney didn’t like
Disney did not make those decisions.
And the implication here, in regards to what this means for the story of TLJ, is pretty absurd, no? That Disney forced Rian to put in an anti-OOT subtext? This is getting to chemtrails levels.
Hal 9000 said:
… the finished film in isolation would imply to me that he was just not interested in carrying on the themes and setups the previous film gave him to work with.We’re not the only ones to have an issue with his desire to put the franchise on its ear. There is an interview with Daisy where she says as soon as she read the script she went to Rian and said “we need to have a talk about what’s happening here”.
I wasn’t interested in several parts of JJ’s film, Snoke and Phasma among them. However, Rian just discarding them seems lazy and/or disrespectful to all the work that went into them in TFA; actors, designers, costumers, writers,etc. They were presented as major characters, much to the delight of a huge portion of the fan base. All the fan speculation the past two years was all for nothing.
Rian treated them the way major characters are treated on Game Of Thrones - You found the character and their story interesting? - too bad. That’s the main reason I stopped watching GoT. It became a waste of time. I’m not terribly interested in the ST. But I am glad it’s back in the hands of JJ.
I think the problem here is a misperception. Neither Snoke nor Phasma were a big part in JJ’s film (in fact I’d bet their combined screen time is under 10 minutes). They were only ever important insofar as how they relate to Kylo Ren and Finn’s characters, respectively. I don’t see how RJ betrays that in anyway, all he does is acknowledge that Kylo and Finn have moved beyond them. And killing them isn’t tossing them aside or being respectful to them - honestly both their parts were much more interesting and consequential to the story this time around.
People realize how easy it is to “fly” in space right? You don’t have to to be Superman or Mary Poppins. It’s space. People realize this, right? Right?
If you’re going to remind people how space actually works then you need to explain how she didn’t die from it’s vacuum, how they opened the door she appeared at without decompressing that entire area and shooting Leia back out into space. Why was Rose’s sister not in a space suit when in the bomber bay that was exposed to space? Why did the bombs drop as if reacting to gravity?
If you’re watching Star Wars for accurate space physics then you’re watching the wrong movie. Might as well edit out all the sounds and explosions from all the other films if that’s the way you feel about it.
The way I look at it, if Dave in 2001 (a human in an ostensibly sci-fi film) can hold his breath in space, then I don’t see why Leia (a force user in a fantasy film) can’t. At the very least, it’s consistent with the only other times we saw this kind of thing in SW (space slug in ESB, window breaking open in ROTS).
These are all obvious plot holes anyway but regardless of the fairly casual approach to space facts in its sci-fi that SW normally takes, these are all stepping far beyond the edge of plausibility and straight into suspension of disbelief zone for anyone with the simplest knowledge of how things work in space.
I just don’t see how you can argue a point (so snidely / sarcastically as well) by calling out the obviousness of how easy it would be to move yourself in space with the force but then ignore the in-your-face issues applying such logic creates for so many other areas of the movie and from someone that says it’s a great movie…
.Val
Plot holes are the lowest form of criticism. One of the worst things about the internet is it thinks you can judge the quality of a movie based on how many plot holes it has (blame Cinemasins, I suppose). That’s wrong.
And this isn’t even a plot hole.
Anyway, my point being, people say “oh, well I guess force users can fly now” when they watch that scene, but that’s not what’s happening at all. The takeaway should be “oh, well I guess force users can hold their breath for a very short period of time in space (but once to safety, the stress of it will render them unconscious),” which personally I don’t find that hard to buy? Am I really crazy for thinking this?
Also, I’m snarky/sarcastic about everything. That’s just who I am.
People realize how easy it is to “fly” in space right? You don’t have to to be Superman or Mary Poppins. It’s space. People realize this, right? Right?
Yes, a film written and directed by a man who literally called the Special Editions the “cartoon versions” was definitely made with a veiled anti-OOT message.
Can’t we keep the TLJ bitching confined to the TLJ threads?
Sadly, his opinion matters not.
Especially since we know Disney will have you re write your film or have you fired if you deviate too far from what they expect out of you as a director
No.
Yes, a film written and directed by a man who literally called the Special Editions the “cartoon versions” was definitely made with a veiled anti-OOT message.
Can’t we keep the TLJ bitching confined to the TLJ threads?
Sadly, his opinion matters not.
I’m sure he’s not the only person working with LFL who wants the OOT. Just forces beyond control, I suppose.
I just realized that the (non-) reveal of Rey’s parents begs for more edits to TFA. The one that sticks out to me is Rey and BB-8’s exchange:
“Classified? Me too, big secret.”
Yeah, that line is insulting now. I’m sure other “hints” need to be cut back now too, I’d have to rewatch TFA again though.
I think maybe cut when Han is about to tell Maz who’s the girl and the movie abruptly cuts “not to reveal the mystery”.
This might be a good idea. It probably was the most obvious nod to her being someone special in the Force Awakens.
I agree, there is a need now to cut the following mentions in TFA:
- Kylo’s “What girl ?”
- Maz’s “Who’s the girl ?”
- Kylo’s “The girl I’ve heard so much about” (remove audio only, no need to edit the video. This sentence was already silly before TLJ got released)
Literally none of these need to be cut.
You literally don’t want to cut anything from TFA and TLJ, so you’re not the best advisor about that 😉
Want/need are two different things.
(and besides, yes, there are things I would cut from both films)
I just realized that the (non-) reveal of Rey’s parents begs for more edits to TFA. The one that sticks out to me is Rey and BB-8’s exchange:
“Classified? Me too, big secret.”
Yeah, that line is insulting now. I’m sure other “hints” need to be cut back now too, I’d have to rewatch TFA again though.
I think maybe cut when Han is about to tell Maz who’s the girl and the movie abruptly cuts “not to reveal the mystery”.
This might be a good idea. It probably was the most obvious nod to her being someone special in the Force Awakens.
I agree, there is a need now to cut the following mentions in TFA:
- Kylo’s “What girl ?”
- Maz’s “Who’s the girl ?”
- Kylo’s “The girl I’ve heard so much about” (remove audio only, no need to edit the video. This sentence was already silly before TLJ got released)
Literally none of these need to be cut.
I agree. I think we’re getting at a point where we’re too busy trying to see what we can cut, instead of trying to benefit the story. None of those lines negate or contradict what we learn. Of course they’d talk about her, she’s making a big splash. Nobody knew who the hell that blonde farmboy was until he blew up the death star.
Exactly. These just happen to be the lines that everyone was reading into when they were making their big theories.
Even Kylo Ren’s line from the novelization - “It i* you” - still works. She’s the awakening in the force that he felt.
People don’t seem to realize that JJ had the same reveal in mind when he made TFA.
Yes, a film written and directed by a man who literally called the Special Editions the “cartoon versions” was definitely made with a veiled anti-OOT message.
Can’t we keep the TLJ bitching confined to the TLJ threads?
I just realized that the (non-) reveal of Rey’s parents begs for more edits to TFA. The one that sticks out to me is Rey and BB-8’s exchange:
“Classified? Me too, big secret.”
Yeah, that line is insulting now. I’m sure other “hints” need to be cut back now too, I’d have to rewatch TFA again though.
I think maybe cut when Han is about to tell Maz who’s the girl and the movie abruptly cuts “not to reveal the mystery”.
This might be a good idea. It probably was the most obvious nod to her being someone special in the Force Awakens.
I agree, there is a need now to cut the following mentions in TFA:
- Kylo’s “What girl ?”
- Maz’s “Who’s the girl ?”
- Kylo’s “The girl I’ve heard so much about” (remove audio only, no need to edit the video. This sentence was already silly before TLJ got released)
Literally none of these need to be cut.
I just realized that the (non-) reveal of Rey’s parents begs for more edits to TFA. The one that sticks out to me is Rey and BB-8’s exchange:
“Classified? Me too, big secret.”
Yeah, that line is insulting now. I’m sure other “hints” need to be cut back now too, I’d have to rewatch TFA again though.
Really? I always thought she was being sarcastic as she comes from nowhere and she is a no one and it’s pretty obvious that BB-8 would notice it.
Yeah, exactly. If anything it works better in hindsight.
well I think you can certainly expect a lower budget on the last Episode given the social media reaction.
It looks like a 50/50 split so the budget will be aligned accordingly for losses.
More accurate research shows it’s nothing near 50/50, probably closer to 90/10 or 70/30 at the very least.
And when TLJ becomes the third highest grossing domestic release of all time, I’m sure any thought about decreasing the IX budget will disappear.
We haven’t heard mention of Wedge Antilles either. I’d like to see Wedge come back and help recruit new pilots or something.
They apparently offered Lawson a part in TFA - undoubtedly as one of the Resistance officers. He turned it down because he thought the part wasn’t big enough, which I find odd considering the size of his roles in the OT.
I’ve been glad that Lando hasn’t been in the ST so far (as I think any inclusion in those stories would have seemed forced for his character), but it would be odd if he’s not in IX, after setting up the whole regroup and rebuild the Rebellion thing at the end of the movie.
http://www.slashfilm.com/obi-wan-in-the-last-jedi/
http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-sequel-trilogy/
“JJ/RJ/KK all suck I wish they had gone with George Lucas’s plot outline instead of this garbage that ruined Luke Skywalker forever.”
Yeah, okay…
http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-sequel-trilogy/
Having read the Art of TFA book (and having just started reading the Art of TLJ book), I can say with some certainty that the conception that Lucas’s ideas were completely scrapped is basically a myth.
Two out of three of the Sequel Trilogy films (thus far) have ended with the Force Theme. Out of all the issues with the Sequel Trilogy, this is one that really irks me. It made sense in the context of both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, but you’d think Williams wouldn’t be so repetitive.
And there is no doubt in my mind it will be the same case for Episode IX.
Williams ended Revenge of the Sith with it too. That means the last three Star Wars films have all used the force theme at the end. I agree, it would seem as one of the greatest composers of all time would avoid this type of repetition.
It’s tough because I can’t think of a more fitting theme to use for any of those scenes. I just wish he’d played it a bit differently in TLJ (like how he changed the end of it in TFA).