Star Wars Episode I except with Abrams/Disney style laser blasts:
What program are you using?
Hitfilm 4 Express.
I desaturated the fuck out of the green Naboo lasers, and overylayed a blue lightsaber effect. The cherry on top was the lense flares.
Hmm interesting, first I’ve heard of it. Looks good.
Star Wars Episode I except with Abrams/Disney style laser blasts:
What program are you using?
Rey isn’t a Jedi yet.
Which begs the question what does Rey miss, that would prevent her from being called a Jedi? She has pretty much all the skills. She defeated Kylo Ren, resisted Snoke, and rejected Kylo Ren’s offer. What else is left for her to do, outside of defeating Kylo Ren again?
Being a Jedi is about more than just having all the skillz (which there’s no indication she has anyway). She defeated Kylo in a moment of weakness for him (and the next time she tried to face him she never even got to ignite her saber). She did not resist Snoke. And rejecting a single offer towards the dark side doesn’t mean that you’ll never face temptation again. Luke rejected Vader’s offer in ESB, don’t forget.
Sure, but let’s also not forget, that Luke did not have the level of control Rey has at the end of TESB. Luke still struggled to lift a few rocks, and got handed his *** by Vader. Rey came out victorious by comparison, and even got to rescue the rebels in the end.
That doesn’t make her a Jedi.
Right.
Being a Jedi was never about having level 90 flip ability and knowing how to dismember a dude in a few seconds. Power levels and midichlorians are PT nonsense. “My powers have doubled since we last met” says Anakin. WHAT. What does that even mean. The whole trilogy is gibberish. Now take ROTJ and what does Luke really do to become a Jedi Knight? He fights yet again, and he actually only beats Vader in combat when anger and rage fuel his body. Just like Vader said in ESB. But becoming a Jedi has nothing to do with sweet moves and fighting abilities. Luke goes beyond that and throws down the saber. It’s a spiritual state of mind, like a touch of Zen. People argue over and over about ridiculous things like how can Rey do this or that. Who even cares. It’s irrelevant.
After Rey’s childhood, there’s nothing zen about her. I can’t buy the notion that a week’s worth of stress focused her mind and turned the coal into a diamond. Show me a monk who achieves enlightenment in a week.
Whether you define the scope of what it means to be a Jedi as flipping around and floating rocks or a spiritual, zen-like state of mind, neither should be possible to the extent Rey is capable within a few days.
But again, Rey’s not a Jedi yet. That’s the whole point being made. Whether or not she’s got the high level powers already, she hasn’t yet reached that zen point that Luke does at the end of ROTJ.
They’re not in line with rules that people have established based on the previous 6, sure. But there isn’t anything that directly contradicts with what’s actually in the films. It’s only rewriting our perceptions of the universe, not the films themselves.
It’s basic good storytelling to bring the audience along and not suddenly and radically alter the rules. It’s not that audience has established rules but rather took them from the previous material.
No doubt in additional stories various rules are amended or expanded upon. But it’s important to bring the audience along. If the accepted rules change significantly with no good reason, you risk losing the audience.
Thus with Rey many of us are thinking: this is radically inconsistent with what we saw and liked in previous movies.
Some, like me, were hoping for some great reason to appear in E8. Late in TLJ, Snoke basically tells us the reason is the Force forces itself upon people in search of some kind of balance. Even if we choose to believe the Snokester, many of us think that’s lame.
I didn’t like Anakin as a vergence because midichlorians either or the prophecy stuff. All that is something like a precedent for Rey. Introduced that way, I bet more people would have been on board. And recognizing that, I can honestly say that’s still lame.
Many don’t think the rules were altered radically. Most probably don’t think the rules were altered at all. I remember I saw TFA with a big group of people, mostly casual fans. I was the only one who had a problem with Rey performing the mind trick. They either didn’t notice the inconsistency or didn’t care. Even without the anecdote, I’d guess most of the casual audience isn’t too concerned with the minutiae of who can do what force powers when.
Rey isn’t a Jedi yet.
Which begs the question what does Rey miss, that would prevent her from being called a Jedi? She has pretty much all the skills. She defeated Kylo Ren, resisted Snoke, and rejected Kylo Ren’s offer. What else is left for her to do, outside of defeating Kylo Ren again?
Being a Jedi is about more than just having all the skillz (which there’s no indication she has anyway). She defeated Kylo in a moment of weakness for him (and the next time she tried to face him she never even got to ignite her saber). She did not resist Snoke. And rejecting a single offer towards the dark side doesn’t mean that you’ll never face temptation again. Luke rejected Vader’s offer in ESB, don’t forget.
Sure, but let’s also not forget, that Luke did not have the level of control Rey has at the end of TESB. Luke still struggled to lift a few rocks, and got handed his *** by Vader. Rey came out victorious by comparison, and even got to rescue the rebels in the end.
That doesn’t make her a Jedi.
Right.
Being a Jedi was never about having level 90 flip ability and knowing how to dismember a dude in a few seconds. Power levels and midichlorians are PT nonsense. “My powers have doubled since we last met” says Anakin. WHAT. What does that even mean. The whole trilogy is gibberish. Now take ROTJ and what does Luke really do to become a Jedi Knight? He fights yet again, and he actually only beats Vader in combat when anger and rage fuel his body. Just like Vader said in ESB. But becoming a Jedi has nothing to do with sweet moves and fighting abilities. Luke goes beyond that and throws down the saber. It’s a spiritual state of mind, like a touch of Zen. People argue over and over about ridiculous things like how can Rey do this or that. Who even cares. It’s irrelevant.
Exactly.
What is the deal with no ketchup on hot dogs? I never understood that.
Water is just about the only thing I drink, period.
Rey isn’t a Jedi yet.
Which begs the question what does Rey miss, that would prevent her from being called a Jedi? She has pretty much all the skills. She defeated Kylo Ren, resisted Snoke, and rejected Kylo Ren’s offer. What else is left for her to do, outside of defeating Kylo Ren again?
Being a Jedi is about more than just having all the skillz (which there’s no indication she has anyway). She defeated Kylo in a moment of weakness for him (and the next time she tried to face him she never even got to ignite her saber). She did not resist Snoke. And rejecting a single offer towards the dark side doesn’t mean that you’ll never face temptation again. Luke rejected Vader’s offer in ESB, don’t forget.
Sure, but let’s also not forget, that Luke did not have the level of control Rey has at the end of TESB. Luke still struggled to lift a few rocks, and got handed his *** by Vader. Rey came out victorious by comparison, and even got to rescue the rebels in the end.
That doesn’t make her a Jedi.
Skim milk is tolerable in cereal, but not on its own.
Milk should never be drunk on its own.
Well if you’re talking about skim, soy, and almond milk, then you’re absolutely right.
the only time it is OK to drink milk on its own is if you are an infant, nursing.
that is my hot take.
although i let my toddler drink milk (whole).
No.
Rey isn’t a Jedi yet.
Which begs the question what does Rey miss, that would prevent her from being called a Jedi? She has pretty much all the skills. She defeated Kylo Ren, resisted Snoke, and rejected Kylo Ren’s offer. What else is left for her to do, outside of defeating Kylo Ren again?
Being a Jedi is about more than just having all the skillz (which there’s no indication she has anyway). She defeated Kylo in a moment of weakness for him (and the next time she tried to face him she never even got to ignite her saber). She did not resist Snoke. And rejecting a single offer towards the dark side doesn’t mean that you’ll never face temptation again. Luke rejected Vader’s offer in ESB, don’t forget.
Skim milk is tolerable in cereal, but not on its own.
Milk should never be drunk on its own.
Well if you’re talking about skim, soy, and almond milk, then you’re absolutely right.
The difference in taste between 1% and 2% milk is fairly insignificant.
Skim milk is tolerable in cereal, but not on its own.
Pretty much.
Therefore, 1% is the way to go.
Rey isn’t a Jedi yet.
I believe the answer is a solid maybe. From what I understand, he was supposed to have the lightsaber call to him, same as Rey. I’m still hoping Finn and the force become more acquainted in IX, I think that’d be an interesting direction.
Lucas changed his own rules with each new movie he made. If new creators aren’t allowed to expand our understanding of the universe as Lucas did, why even make new films?
exactly. they should never have made new films period.
I often suspect this is how many feel but they often pretend that’s not the case. Appreciate the honesty.
I hope I’m not one of those lumped in with the pretenders.
Nah you’re very upfront about it. Not entirely sure why you’re in this thread though…
and lucas was heavily criticized for comtradicting himself. does that excuse other creators contradicting some stuff that came before? imo no it doesn’t.
In my mind it all comes down to what services the story. Vader as Luke’s father is a retcon but also one of the most powerful developments in the saga (and cinema history, really). Luke and Leia as siblings isn’t awful but doesn’t ultimately have much bearing on ROTJ. Padme dying in ROTS contradicts a line in the OT but in my opinion is absolutely essential to the story that ROTS is telling, and the movie would be worse without it.
Basically, it depends. Many fans are binary about these things. I don’t think that’s the right way to go about it.
Lucas changed his own rules with each new movie he made. If new creators aren’t allowed to expand our understanding of the universe as Lucas did, why even make new films?
exactly. they should never have made new films period.
I often suspect this is how many feel but they often pretend that’s not the case. Appreciate the honesty.
JJ makes his twitter debut with a pic from the first day on set. Looks like (I’m guessing) Rey (or maybe JJ?), Chewie, and Finn in the Falcon. New outfits, can kinda make out Finn’s (sorta Han Solo vibes there).
Lucas changed his own rules with each new movie he made. If new creators aren’t allowed to expand our understanding of the universe as Lucas did, why even make new films?
I’m calling it now - the Big Three will all be Force Ghosts by the end (yes, even Han somehow) and they’ll all appear to Rey as a mirror to Luke’s scene in ROTJ.
There was a split moment during TLJ where, if you had paused the film in that second and asked me, I would’ve put money on Harrison Ford making an appearance.
They’re not in line with rules that people have established based on the previous 6, sure. But there isn’t anything that directly contradicts with what’s actually in the films. It’s only rewriting our perceptions of the universe, not the films themselves.
Something that I found interesting is that the Yoda scene in this movie implies that Yoda hasn’t spoken to Luke in 30 years.
[Yoda said:]
Luke, the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned, Luke…[Yoda said:]
Heeded my words not, did you? Pass on what you have learned.I wonder if Kenobi also gave him the silent treatment.
It’s possible they haven’t, but I don’t think that line necessarily implies that.
I find it interesting that they specifically said Carrie’s stuff would be unused TFA footage, implying that they won’t also be using any unused TLJ footage on top of that.
I think there probably just isn’t any unused TLJ stuff.
Which is a shame, I much preferred the lighting and costume from TLJ - she just looked so regal.
Totally agree. I’m kinda hoping they do some minor CG adjustments to her TFA outfit to at least make it seem different (there’s also the possibility that they’ll keep her as-shot long braid).
It’s weird to say Rey’s story is about her being a slave of destiny when it’s almost explicitly the opposite.
How? Why does she join the Resistance’s fight? Why does she want to become a Jedi? What does becoming a Jedi mean to her? Why does she reject Ben Solo, when he’s the only Force user who seems to care about her future? The answers to all these questions imo seem to be, because the plot dictates her choices. The writers need her to become the next new hope, and so she’s bestowed with these magic powers, that become her McGuffin for tagging along, and finding out more about herself. Her Force powers are a self-fullfilling prophesy. They are the reason she goes on this quest, the reason she survives her ordeals, and ultimately the reason she becomes a hero, and a Jedi. She is literally an empty vessel waiting for the story to give her reasons to exist.
I don’t know why I should explain when I’ve already done so many, many, many, many, many times. It’s all there in the movies anyway, but you’re too busy looking for her to fulfill the same exact story as Luke to notice.
No, this “we critics just want the same over, and over” is just as tiresome, and old as you claim my criticisms to be, and has been refuted many, many, many, many times. I’m looking for the story to give her compelling personal reasons to exist, and to make her work for her status as a Jedi, and a hero. There’s just no denying Rey progress in the ways of the Force are not justified by the story, other than they are just there, because of “darkness rises, and light to meet it”. Luke doesn’t help her, yet she still succeeds in everything she puts her mind to when it comes to using the Force.
You’re focusing on the wrong things. Over and over. You ask why she wants to be a Jedi because you’re waiting for her to do what Luke does - explain why he wants to be a Jedi. But in waiting for this moment that will never come you completely miss what’s actually happening - that Rey doesn’t necessarily even want to be a Jedi. That’s not what it’s about for her.
How fast she learns to use the force is irrelevant to her characterization. The irony is you crave adherence to the PT’s established Jedi must be trained from birth “rule” so much that you fail to realize that by bypassing that Rey’s character is actually sidestepping a plot device that has little to do with her actual story as told. They’re focusing on more relevant factors in her specific coming of age.
Luke’s story was one of aspiration. The training was important to him insofar as aspirations are nothing without hard work. Rey’s story is not about aspiration, it is about belonging. Training has nothing to do with that (we see she understands hard work when we meet her). For Rey, her struggle is to learn that belonging is nothing without first a sense of self-actualization.
That’s all good and well, but the ST does not exist in isolation. The idea that a potential Jedi needs to be trained by a mentor has existed since ANH, and has been expanded upon in the films, that followed. The entire process of becoming a Jedi has been shown to be both laberous, and riddled with risk. The entire arc of Anakin’s fall, and redemption, and Luke growth and aspirations as a character hinges on these themes, as you yourself point out. The ST greatly diminishes what came before, because it trivializes the journey to become a Jedi, and the themes set out by Lucas in favour of doing its own thing.
The force shouldn’t be a super power. These aren’t video games, so gaining proper experience points before leveling up shouldn’t be a factor. The force is a mystical energy field, but beyond that in world explanation the force has always been a metatextual manifestation of the character’s journies. It was this way with Luke. It’s that way with Rey. It was even this way with Anakin (or it was trying to be). This is someone who is born with more strength in the force than anyone else, with his ultimate downfall being his inability to properly direct whether he used these immense powers for good or evil. His story is not about learning to use the force (Qui-Gon makes clear he already does), it’s about learning to control it. Even when he whines about being held back, it’s not about not getting trained enough, it’s about others not appreciating his potential. In a way he’s the anti-Rey, he knows he has the strength, his struggle is trying to prove he’s capable to everyone else. And it’s a decidedly different story than Luke’s. Get rid of the ten year gap where he’s being trained and you don’t miss a thing of importance in his story.
I think you’re missing or ignoring an important aspect of Lucas’ story, namely that being slowly exposed to these amazing powers, combined with the emotional immaturity that comes with young age inevitably will lead to the temptation of the dark side, to choose the quick and easy path. This was the reason the Jedi trained prospects from a young age. Becoming a Jedi was about more than having some Force powers. A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This has been the theme running through episodes 1 through 6. Rey only learns failure in the few days she has been exposed to the Force, whilst having her powers grow exponentially for reasons of plot convenience, and that apparently is enough for Luke and Yoda to proclaim her the next Jedi to be. I don’t like that for reasons stated above. It’s perfectly fine that you do of course.
But Rey already has “the deepest commitment, the most serious mind.”
You’re putting canon over story. In your mind you perceive Rey’s abilities to be a serious breach of established continuity. Because yeah, Lucas did make statements that support your assertions (those he’s also made some that support mine). But what I care about is what’s in the text itself. Star Wars is an ever-evolving universe. Rey’s journey is changing the way we see the force in the context of the films (and not necessarily contradicting anything we’ve seen before, if it’s contradicting what we’ve been told outside of the films), and I’m okay with that. Because it is serving the story first, and the canon second.
Yes, except for the fact that Anakin went through a decade of Jedi training, and still failed to become the Jedi, he was supposed to be. The prequels put the entire concept of believing in prophesies in doubt, and reinforce the idea, that allways in motion is the future.
Sure, but like Rey he was pretty gifted when we first met him.
I think there is a question that people aren’t asking, which is “What exactly is Jedi training”. I don’t think Jedi training is about moving rocks or lightsaber technique. I think Jedi training is more about indoctrination. The Jedi are a religion, and like most religions, you have to start them young so they understand the world they way you need them to, because Jedi in the Jedi Order are basically celebate monks. Thats why the council rejected Anakin, too old to indoctrinate, and they were right. The jedi don’t spend 10 years learning how to fight and move rocks. Their lessons are basically learning about the force and how to understand it better, but understand it the way the Jedi want them to.
You could also say that things like moving rocks or deflecting laser bolts are pretty much the Jedi traning 101, in EpII we see kids deflecting blaster bolts, they probably can lift brooms as well with not much traning. Anakin didn’t need training to use his force powers to Fly Pods. Luke didn’t get much training to learn how to grab his saber and to use the force to blow up the death star.
Lukes training in Degoba wasn’t about lifting rocks, he could do that without much of an issue, but to understand why he could lift rocks. What he needed to learn about the force and how it connects to the universe.
Is Rey faster and more powerful than Luke and Anakin? sure, but I don’t see this being without precident.
Rey gets her trainig the same way you teach a child to swim, throw them in the deep end. Kylo’s probing of her mind taught her how to fight back, which taught her how to influence that storm troopers mind. She’s as powerful as the narrative needs her to be. It would have been nice for her to stay longer on the island, sure but I think she gets everything she needs to know for the narrative.
Which is why I find the Rey’s traning argument to be kind of petty and shortsited.
To me being as powerful as the narrative (or the writer) needs her to be is precisely the problem. Luke could lift a rock, but lifting an x-wing, or a ton of boulders was impossible for him, or any other novice, because it requires the mindset of a Jedi, to see beyond preconceptions, to be able to reach a level of control that comes with dedication, and experience. This is what makes becoming a Jedi so arduous. To now have a character come in, and do it all on the drop of a hat greatly diminishes the trials of all the Jedi that preceeded her in my view. It’s like having a novice who never did any sports compete in the Olympics, and still come out on top despite a lack of proper training. If not liking that is petty, then so be it.
Yoda was disappointed that Luke didn’t lift the X-wing, which means he knows he could have. His problem wasn’t that he was a novice.
Luke Skywalker: But I can help them! I feel the Force!
Obi-Wan Kenobi: But you cannot control it! This is a dangerous time for you, when you will be tempted by the Dark Side of the Force.
Notably Obi-wan says he can’t control it after Luke failed to lift the X-wing.
I’m absolutely fine with that. We all weigh different elements in a different way, which is why there’s no right and wrong in judging art.
Yes, except for the fact that Anakin went through a decade of Jedi training, and still failed to become the Jedi, he was supposed to be. The prequels put the entire concept of believing in prophesies in doubt, and reinforce the idea, that allways in motion is the future.
Sure, but like Rey he was pretty gifted when we first met him.
I think there is a question that people aren’t asking, which is “What exactly is Jedi training”. I don’t think Jedi training is about moving rocks or lightsaber technique. I think Jedi training is more about indoctrination. The Jedi are a religion, and like most religions, you have to start them young so they understand the world they way you need them to, because Jedi in the Jedi Order are basically celebate monks. Thats why the council rejected Anakin, too old to indoctrinate, and they were right. The jedi don’t spend 10 years learning how to fight and move rocks. Their lessons are basically learning about the force and how to understand it better, but understand it the way the Jedi want them to.
You could also say that things like moving rocks or deflecting laser bolts are pretty much the Jedi traning 101, in EpII we see kids deflecting blaster bolts, they probably can lift brooms as well with not much traning. Anakin didn’t need training to use his force powers to Fly Pods. Luke didn’t get much training to learn how to grab his saber and to use the force to blow up the death star.
Lukes training in Degoba wasn’t about lifting rocks, he could do that without much of an issue, but to understand why he could lift rocks. What he needed to learn about the force and how it connects to the universe.
Is Rey faster and more powerful than Luke and Anakin? sure, but I don’t see this being without precident.
Rey gets her trainig the same way you teach a child to swim, throw them in the deep end. Kylo’s probing of her mind taught her how to fight back, which taught her how to influence that storm troopers mind. She’s as powerful as the narrative needs her to be. It would have been nice for her to stay longer on the island, sure but I think she gets everything she needs to know for the narrative.
Which is why I find the Rey’s traning argument to be kind of petty and shortsited.
To me being as powerful as the narrative (or the writer) needs her to be is precisely the problem. Luke could lift a rock, but lifting an x-wing, or a ton of boulders was impossible for him, or any other novice, because it requires the mindset of a Jedi, to see beyond preconceptions, to be able to reach a level of control that comes with dedication, and experience. This is what makes becoming a Jedi so arduous. To now have a character come in, and do it all on the drop of a hat greatly diminishes the trials of all the Jedi that preceeded her in my view. It’s like having a novice who never did any sports compete in the Olympics, and still come out on top despite a lack of proper training. If not liking that is petty, then so be it.
Yoda was disappointed that Luke didn’t lift the X-wing, which means he knows he could have. His problem wasn’t that he was a novice.
I always thought that having Yoda say ‘size matters not’ was an extremely daring thing for the writers to do, because could potentially break the idea of a Jedi as a videogame character with leveling up and unlocking abilities and whatnot. The Force is a kind of spirituality made manifest in a world. For it to work as such it must be, in a sense, boundless in its potential. I imagined that when Yoda said this the implication was that everyone has the potential for unlimited ability in the Force, since it’s more primal and important than matter. It’s merely the limitations of the mind which keep a person’s abilities in check, which is presumably why the Jedi liked to recruit at such a young age - small children have less mental barriers. When Luke failed to lift the X-wing, Yoda implies that his failure is precisely because of his lifetime of assumptions as to what is possible.
Exactly.
But presumably the lack of assumptions alone is not enough for lifting X-wings. One also has to be conditioned to believe that they can do these things in variance with their own understanding of physical reality. I imagine that this is why mentors are so important - if you have an example for what is possible, you can override those ingrained assumptions much easier.
Based on this, I can see how Rey would be an ideal candidate for ability in the Force. She is constantly looking back to her young childhood and has a strong faith formed over her entire life as she’s waited for her parents to return. Because she’s waiting for them, she has never traveled off planet, even though she is clearly capable of doing so. In fact, she is established as being overqualified for a scavenger’s existence, but because she stays she has known no real failure from inability. Her conception of good and evil is childlike due to her nostalgia and desperate need to return to that state of belonging, to the point where she accepts Maz’s view of the light/dark dichotomy without question and joins the Resistance without a second thought. Her mentor is Kylo Ren, whom she ultimately defeats in both movies. She is a person who has not yet found her limits, not yet known real failure and defeat. This makes her terrifyingly powerful in the Force, but also terrifyingly fragile, for with a single failure she could lose much of her ability.
At least that’s how I would interpret the character. I’m willing to bet JJ doesn’t share this interpretation.
That’s mostly how I see it too (I’d be surprised if JJ didn’t either, he did create the character after all).
I think it’s important to remember both Luke and Anakin faced their biggest temptations toward the dark side in their third chapters. I imagine the same will happen to Rey.
