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DominicCobb

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16-Aug-2011
Last activity
20-Mar-2019
Posts
8,418

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Post
#1274165
Topic
Disney to buy 20th (21st) Century Fox? (Disney has now bought them - 14 Dec '17)
Time

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

Only the PT they grew up with isn’t quite the same one they’ve got now.

They probably have no idea.

I can see the editorial and sound changes slipping below the radar, but Creepy Puppet Yoda™ being replaced?

In the case of CPY, if they’re aware they probably prefer it and don’t care that the initial version is unavailable.

Post
#1274162
Topic
Which one of the Star Wars Movies was made WITHOUT the fans in mind?
Time

The idea that “most for the fans” is on the opposite side of the spectrum of “most the directors’ vision” is flawed, particularly when you talk about the Disney movies where it’s fans making the movies.

I’d also argue that Lucas conceived of the original film as for fans in many ways. He made the kind of movie which he wanted to see (throwback adventure) that he figured many audiences would want to see as well.

Post
#1274142
Topic
Disney to buy 20th (21st) Century Fox? (Disney has now bought them - 14 Dec '17)
Time

darklordoftech said:

Is it just me or did a lot of fans turn against the unaltered versions once the sale of Lucasfilm to Disney was announced? Before the sale to Disney, I always heard that Lucas was evil incarnate and that the Special Editions are unwatchable, but the day that the sale to Disney was announced, I started hearing “releasing the unaltered versions would result in the discontinuation of the Special Editions” or “releasing the unaltered versions would go against the canon”.

Perhaps it’s just more of the PT fans growing up and becoming a louder subset. If all you ever seen is the SE and all you know about the OOT is that Lucas considers them unfinished (and you don’t care about film history), why would you want the OOT to be released?

Post
#1273748
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

You’d have to rotoscope I think, the other options are pretty impractical. It’s just something I haven’t really done before so I’m curious about how tricky it’d be.

It’s not that big a deal, no, but considering how little I feel these films need changing it’s actually very high on my list. As for IX, a time gap is a perfect explanation for fixing it. It’s just weird and doesn’t make sense why he gets the gold back at the end of TFA (plus I actually quite like the look of the red).

Post
#1273704
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

Like many of you, I’m sure, Luke was my hero growing up. Luke was an idealist, maybe a little naive, but always cared about doing the right thing. I really identified with that and felt I was the same way in lot of aspects.

In TLJ, Luke has clearly gotten older, and with that time Luke has made mistakes and has even fallen into a depression. He’s lost that bit of idealism he used to have, becoming a little jaded by the world.

I’ve also gotten older, and when I watched this movie, I was surprised how much I still related to Luke. While I’m not as old as Luke is, I’ve also come to regret my naivety a little. I’ve made a lot of mistakes, things that have really made me hate myself at times, like hurting people I care about. Things that totally felt out of character for me, things I know better than to do, that despite how much I care about the people I love, than I can still fail them. But, seeing Luke deal with the same thing, but be able to look through that fog of depression and find hope that he can try to make things right and be who he always was meant to be, it gave me that little bit of hope that despite my own failures, it isn’t too late for me to be better too.

Maybe this won’t resonate for everyone, but I like to think that for the people who are most like Luke when he was young, who will come to realize how the world can come crashing down on idealists and leave them in a place like older Luke was in, will get it. So to me, TLJ Luke is exactly who he needs to be for certain people going through similar things as he’s going through, just like how OT Luke was a surrogate for many kids who related to him. So maybe that won’t work for everyone and I understand that, but it totally works for me. Because to me, that’s what Luke’s character is suppose to be about. Hope. Not just hope for the world, but hope for oneself. And I think what Luke goes through has to be big, because it needs to be something where someone can go, “Well if Luke can get back up after THAT, then maybe I can too.”

Great post RL. Luke was my favorite as a kid too. After TLJ, I love him more than ever.

Post
#1273577
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

snooker said:

The prequels aesthetic is wrong. It isn’t ‘Star Wars’. The Disney movies feel like ‘Star Wars’ aesthetically, with ‘old tech’ and film grain and location shooting. I just can’t make the prequels ‘feel like Star Wars’ in my mind.

Yeah. I mean it’s one thing to do “something different,” which is what all the PT fans say makes it great. But it’s not a little different, it’s practically entirely different. Which is too bad and there’s only so much that can be done.

Post
#1273576
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

snooker said:

The sound redesign was impressive, but man Williams really saves that fight. Without music, it helped me notice just how bad the choreography of the whole fight is. The fight in Empire is so good they didn’t even use music for most of it. I’m mad.

Williams even scored parts of the ESB fight that were removed in the edit. It’s really kind of indicative of how much the PT turned Williams music from a support into a crutch.

This is really cool though.

Post
#1273450
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I tend to agree with Dre here (and we’re not even digging that deep honestly, except maybe insofar as we’re debating a hypothetical). But RL’s right, it comes down to execution, and how it plays out could invoke different meaning than what one might assume on paper.

Also good to get some more evidence on what I think a lot of us have speculated, that IX will have its title/teaser reveal at Celebration.

Post
#1273345
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Yeah you’re definitely closer to what I’m trying to say.

Basically, the argument is that (as RL stated earlier) Rey is of “purer intent” than Kylo - she’s fighting for the light and him the dark. He had a chance to take the mantle of ‘hero Skywalker’ but chose the dark path. The saber represents and recalls the weapon of the savior of the galaxy, in the PT it belongs to the “one who will bring balance,” and in the OT it belongs to the “last hope.” In the ST, the saber is metaphorical of the new mission to reignite the spark of hope and take up the fight (this is pretty explicit in TLJ, less so TFA because of rewrites). Kylo wants the saber because of his birthright, but what it represents doesn’t belong to him, it belongs to Rey. So when the lightsaber goes into Rey’s hand and not Kylo’s, in my mind the literal question of “how did it get there?” -whether the answer is that Rey is stronger in the force, Kylo was caught off guard, or the force is exerting its will - doesn’t matter. What matters is the figurative meaning of the scene - Rey has finally taken up the saber and the mantle it represents which she initially rejected, and which at this point she is more deserving of than Kylo due to who she is, and not who her parents are.

Nice one Dom! Great post! You made me appreciate TFA more!

Thanks. It’s good to know at least sometimes I say things that make sense.

What’s funny is initially Kylo’s line of “that lightsaber belongs to me” wasn’t one of my favorites. I sort of just saw it as part of an underdeveloped subplot (him collecting Vader stuff) and a remnant of an different version of the film. But I think upon further reflection, especially in light of TLJ, the line still holds a good deal of meaning for the character and story.

I’d be very curious to see what that earlier version of TFA was like, where there’s no map and everyone’s after the lightsaber. The fact that the saber represented the search for Luke/hope would have been a lot more explicit, though perhaps the biggest issue was that it was hard to figure out the non-figurative importance of the object (how would a lightsaber help them find him exactly?). But the meaning still shows through when Rey finds it and her subsequent talk with Maz, and the scene I mentioned, and of course when Rey brings it with her to Ahch-to and offers it to Luke. A meaning which continues throughout TLJ (as I believe I’ve written about before a couple times), and hopefully will continue into IX (getting back on topic). TLJ ends with the saber broken, but of course Rey’s still got it. If we were to extrapolate what TFA and TLJ are telling us, then we’ll see Rey with a repaired version of the saber, which will have something significantly different about it. In my mind losing the saber completely would go against the ethos of what’s been established for the character (i.e. not killing the past), and simply reviving the saber as it was would be lazy and also go against what has been set up (she’s forging her own path). We’ll see.

Post
#1273330
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Yeah you’re definitely closer to what I’m trying to say.

Basically, the argument is that (as RL stated earlier) Rey is of “purer intent” than Kylo - she’s fighting for the light and him the dark. He had a chance to take the mantle of ‘hero Skywalker’ but chose the dark path. The saber represents and recalls the weapon of the savior of the galaxy, in the PT it belongs to the “one who will bring balance,” and in the OT it belongs to the “last hope.” In the ST, the saber is metaphorical of the new mission to reignite the spark of hope and take up the fight (this is pretty explicit in TLJ, less so TFA because of rewrites). Kylo wants the saber because of his birthright, but what it represents doesn’t belong to him, it belongs to Rey. So when the lightsaber goes into Rey’s hand and not Kylo’s, in my mind the literal question of “how did it get there?” -whether the answer is that Rey is stronger in the force, Kylo was caught off guard, or the force is exerting its will - doesn’t matter. What matters is the figurative meaning of the scene - Rey has finally taken up the saber and the mantle it represents which she initially rejected, and which at this point she is more deserving of than Kylo due to who she is, and not who her parents are.

Post
#1273322
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

At no point I have I moved the goal posts. I made a post, you didn’t get what I meant, and you seemingly have gotten no closer to understanding. I don’t blame you because my first post was worded weird. But in subsequent post you’ve just been arguing against a point I wasn’t making and all I’ve been saying is that you’re misunderstanding me.

Here’s the initial post

DominicCobb said:
The force has always represented meaning in the story and characters even if doesn’t always literally mean something on a literal plot level. So it’s not necessarily that the force is a sentient determiner who’s giving the saber to Rey, it’s more like Rey has the stronger force in the scene because the film is saying something about these two characters. Kylo sees the saber and claims it as his own. But ultimately the weapon and what it represents belongs to Rey.

To clarify, what I meant is that the force has always had more meaning in the story than just as a plot device. There’s a metaphorical aspect to it as well. In the original film, the force represents Luke’s calling, and ultimately his potential to do great things. It’s not all about the literal interpretation. Luke turning off his targeting computer and acting on instinct is what lets him succeed in his mission. The literal interpretation here is that acting on instinct helps Luke better utilize the force. But the non-literal messaging is that Luke succeeds because he trusts in himself and his instincts. So the force is an agent for representing meaning in the film beyond the literal.

Hopefully this makes more sense now.

Post
#1273277
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru, you’ve missed my point entirely. I’m speaking about it from a meta perspective.

Star Wars being “meta” is another reason I don’t like the ST, so that’s not helping your argument. Star Wars is and has always been escapism for me so I don’t need nods and meta references breaking the 4th wall for me.

No. You misunderstand me. My analysis is from a meta perspective. I’m talking about all the movies, not just the ST.

Post
#1273125
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

leetwall31 said:

I’ll take your word for it, but that link didn’t really make sense to me. Do you have maybe a quick quote from that thread I could read instead?

This post covers it pretty well:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Proof-of-Lucas-revisionism-in-Rinzlers-making-of-book/id/66017/page/1#1270726

DominicCobb said:

leetwall31 said:

I don’t think Midi-Chlorians are an over explanation. I think they enrich our understanding of the Force. Plus if Lucas was able to make the sequel trilogy, then they also serve as a setup.

The argument is that the force represents, amongst other things, life itself. To explore so deeply as you want the literal “what” and “how” and “why” of the force would be like asking for the film to give a definitive meaning of life. The force was designed as a mystical energy that is inherently unknowable. It is up to the characters to decide what to do with it and how they will use, much as it is up to them to decide what they will do will their lives and what choices they will make (and, of course, which side to be on). To pin down what the force is would be to simplify and demystify it.

That’s the point tho. If there was an order of people who used the Force and studied it for over a thousand years, they figured out what it was. I don’t think the Force is life necessarily, I think it’s supposed to be a by-product of life. It’s an energy that’s given off by living cells (Midi-Chlorians). Jedi/Sith harness that energy for their own use. That’s all we’re saying here. The Force isn’t life, and it’s not a religion. Outsiders call the Jedi a religion. It’s not, it’s a real practice. I think people who meditate can relate. Meditation is considered a religious practice, but the people who do it know that’s it’s really not, it’s a great mind hack to ease your temper and stress.

The force is a lot of things (in my example, its comparison to life is as a metaphor). That’s the beauty of keeping it ambiguous and open to interpretation. Nailing down exact parameters is limiting.

DominicCobb said:

Personally, I don’t have as big an issue with the midichlorians as presented in the PT as many do (though I don’t love it). But I would not be okay with what you seem to have wanted (and what Lucas debatable would or would not have done), which would have been to take the explaining to a whole other level.

Lol I get where you’re coming from. But I digress: it’s a newer and more interesting trilogy than what we’re getting now. I think the real reason they didn’t go for it was because George’s trilogy probably officially ended the Star Wars story. Wasn’t Star Wars a story told in a Journal by the Whills in the first place? If they’re gone, then there’s no one left to keep telling us the stories.

“Newer” does not necessarily equal better, you could make the ST about space janitors scrubbing toilets for 6 hours and it’d be “newer” for the series (and “more interesting” is a matter of preference, personally I think rooting the force in science is the opposite of interesting). And it’s not like the sequel trilogy is not exploring the force, it’s just not exploring midichlorians. The “real reason” they’re not using Lucas’s treatment is because even if Lucas ended up directing these films, he wouldn’t have used his treatment. Movies change and evolve significantly throughout development (now multiply that by 3). Look at the first treatment for “The Star Wars” and then look at the finished product and see what I mean.

As for the Journal of the Whills, if Lucas really thought it was so important he would have included it within his “completed” 6 episode saga. I like the concept too, but it is weird to blame the ST for overlooking it, when it was never a real thing beyond a recurring notion in the back of Lucas’s head.

Post
#1273120
Topic
Rian Johnson to Head New Star Wars Trilogy
Time

I hope I get the chance to see IX with my family. Have some fond memories of seeing the prequels with them. Got a chance to see TFA once with my parents and that was great (they loved it). Didn’t get a chance to see TLJ with them but I wish I had. Caught up with them after they saw it and they were going crazy about it. Don’t think I could consider them anything more than casual fans, by the way.

Post
#1273116
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

leetwall31 said:

DominicCobb said:

Midi-chlorians were not there “since the first draft.” And over-explaining everything is not the only way to tell an “intelligent” story.

Are you sure? Weren’t they at least there early on, if not the first draft?

No. Funny enough, this was just discussed on the site very recently: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Proof-of-Lucas-revisionism-in-Rinzlers-making-of-book/id/66017

I don’t think Midi-Chlorians are an over explanation. I think they enrich our understanding of the Force. Plus if Lucas was able to make the sequel trilogy, then they also serve as a setup.

The argument is that the force represents, amongst other things, life itself. To explore so deeply as you want the literal “what” and “how” and “why” of the force would be like asking for the film to give a definitive meaning of life. The force was designed as a mystical energy that is inherently unknowable. It is up to the characters to decide what to do with it and how they will use, much as it is up to them to decide what they will do will their lives and what choices they will make (and, of course, which side to be on). To pin down what the force is would be to simplify and demystify it.

Personally, I don’t have as big an issue with the midichlorians as presented in the PT as many do (though I don’t love it). But I would not be okay with what you seem to have wanted (and what Lucas debatable would or would not have done), which would have been to take the explaining to a whole other level.

Post
#1273115
Topic
Rian Johnson to Head New Star Wars Trilogy
Time

leetwall31 said:

DominicCobb said:

Oh, I’m sorry. I’m, what was the word you used? “Silly.” That’s right. My bad.

No man I’m sorry, I’m the one who’s being silly. You need to help me out, cause you’re the lucky guy who figured out how to like Episode 8! I’m so jealous, cause I wanted to love it so much!

No apology necessary, and trust me, I’m far from the only one.

I think we’re getting waaaaaay off topic here btw lol

Yes

Post
#1273108
Topic
Rian Johnson to Head New Star Wars Trilogy
Time

RogueLeader said:

leetwall31 said:

It’s fine that you like it and have your own opinion about it, but it’s just that you lose our respect a bit, and seem less credible to us about what makes a good movie a good movie.

This feels very narrow-minded to me, that you would lose respect for a person just because they like a certain movie. At least your being honest, I guess.

See, honesty is fine. But I think my approach is preferable, where I merely imply that because someone else has a different opinion that I respect them less.

Post
#1273107
Topic
Rian Johnson to Head New Star Wars Trilogy
Time

leetwall31 said:

DominicCobb said:

leetwall31 said:

DominicCobb said:

leetwall31 said:

RogueLeader said:

leetwall31 said:

I really hope that’s not true. And it’s not the just the internet. Majority of my friends (whom aren’t Star Wars fans in the first place) really didn’t care for it. I can’t recall hearing any good opinions on it the time it came out. It was always “eh”.

I get what your saying, but anecdotal information isn’t really evidence. Many of the people I know who saw the movie liked it, and I read a lot of good opinions about the movie. Does that make me right?

All opinions are anecdotal. That kinda defeats the purpose of this discussion. But damn, I really wanna find some people who liked it now. I knew nobody who did.

Since you seem to care, for what it’s worth I know no one who didn’t like it. Have a couple friends who disliked certain aspects, but that’s as harsh as it gets. Most of us are baffled by the backlash.

Interesting. Would you describe your friends as Star Wars fans?

Yes. In fact I’d say that the people who like it less are the people who are less of fans. I like it more than anyone I know personally and am also the biggest SW fan I know. If that helps with your research.

That makes sense. See none of the people I asked were Star Wars fans. I think only the big fans like this movie, mainly because it’s just Star Wars. If people who don’t really care about Star Wars don’t like it, then that says a lot, because they’re judging it on the basis of whether or not it’s a good movie by itself. I think their opinion matters more. Star Wars fans will love it (duh), but what will ordinary people think?

I can’t really speak to that. I love it because in my mind it is a good movie first, and a great Star Wars movie second (I also consider myself a film fan first and a Star Wars fan second). I also wouldn’t categorize my friends who like it less as “ordinary people”/non-Star Wars fans. In fact, the reasons they gave for disliking it were all things that they felt didn’t fit in a Star Wars movie, in their minds (there were arguments had, I assure you).

I haven’t really talked about it with non-friends/“ordinary people,” so I’d have to think about that. I know after it came out I talked with a coworker who thought I’d hate it because I was a Star Wars fan and there was the backlash and whatever. She liked it (and didn’t understand what said backlash was about). Don’t know if she’s even seen all the Star Wars movies.

DominicCobb said:

leetwall31 said:

Speaking for the people who think it’s a silly movie, it comes off like fast food. It’s just so obviously fake, processed and insincere. We can’t help but look at the people who defend it as kinda silly themselves, because to us it’s just such an obviously poor attempt to be what it is. But most people may miss that because it’s packaged in a specific way that averts you from it’s flaws. It doesn’t expect you to think, and if you did, you’d recognize that it’s not good too.

It’s fine that you like it and have your own opinion about it, but it’s just that you lose our respect a bit, and seem less credible to us about what makes a good movie a good movie.

I am deeply disappointed that I have lost your respect. I don’t know what I will ever do without it. Maybe someday I can be as smart as you.

That was really immature.

Oh, I’m sorry. I’m, what was the word you used? “Silly.” That’s right. My bad.