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Darth Simon

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8-Oct-2004
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15-Dec-2015
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Post
#107015
Topic
Episode 3 was disappointing on many levels...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/107015/action/topic#107015
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: ricarleite
About the Death Star scene, I take that this scene happens some years after Vader gets his suit. We see that the imperial officers are all recruited and in full uniform, and I doubt Palpatine had thousands of spare uniforms hiding in boxes just waiting for his evil plans to be completed.

"I will form a galactical empire to make sure there's peace!"
*applause *
"So that's how freedom dies, with thunderous applause"
*appluse ending*
"And I have some cool, new uniforms for those who chose to work for me... I have 3 sizes... And you get this cute cap"
* Tarkin walks in, modeling the hew outfits *


rofl

*and next we have Tarkin sporting the all weather Grand Moff Line, you'll notice his cap and how it really brings the whole outfit together *
Post
#107002
Topic
Episode 3 was disappointing on many levels...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/107002/action/topic#107002
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Bossk
I just have one question on the whole Death Star issue... when do they actually say it is complete? I know Tarkin makes reference to this "fully functional battle station" which could imply that it was just completed (or was that Palpy in ROTJ who says that?). But why do we assume that it took what would actually be 18 years as Luke and Leia are born in ROTS and are 18 in ANH? Maybe it's been done for some time and has been floating about biding its time to make its first appearance. Or maybe they've been adding on or refining it before actually using it? Just some ideas to ponder.

Flame away.


that line was the Emperor in Jedi. Tarkin made some comment along the lines of a 'ribbon cutting event' when they first used it on Alderaan.

bossk, ive also thought of this possibiliy, but from the movie, it also seems that Palpatine was waiting to dissolve the senate until after he had the death star to use as that fear factor to control the people.

as far as the plans of the death star, that would have worked, but i think the problem there was they jumped the gun by already showing those in AOTC. Also, I think part of the scene at the end was meant to show Tarkin in a 'position of power' over the death star. not that this explains the time delay.

I think there is too much focus on the wording of "High Ground" rather than a more general strategic meaning of the term. Maybe it would have been better if Ben said he had the "Upper Hand" or something along those lines, but the point is still the same.

I just thought of something though, Ben's line in ANH 'You cant win Darth, if you strike me down i will become more powerful than you can ever imagine' He's basically telling him the same thing in that battle that he did in the Episode III battle, that Anakin cant win the fight. (also intersting in terms of Ben's convo with Yoda at the end of ROTS)

*edit*
ohh, good call on the metaphor MeBe

-Darth Simon
Post
#106991
Topic
Episode 3 was disappointing on many levels...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106991/action/topic#106991
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Asha
A 'groundless' nitpick? Then riddle me this: why was Kenobi able to defeat Maul when Maul was standing above a dangling Kenobi? Maul had "the high ground." It didn't hold Ben back, so why would Ben have believed that Anakin wasn't able to pull of his jump?


ive stated that as a problem with TPM in a previous post somewhere. Maul with his skill should have cut Obi-Wan in twine when he was on his way up. It is not however a problem with ROTS because Obi-Wan did what anyone that was skilled would have done when someone rushed at them filled with emotion. I could try to explain TPM by saying that Maul was too busy gloating/taunting Ben to be ready for what happened, where as Obi-Wan was ready for Anakin to attack and prepared to counter. But I've had a problem with that aspect of Mauls death from day 1.

Quote
This concept of "high ground" hasn't been an issue in any previous battle ... it was merely a convenient and highly lame way to end this fight. And yeah ... had Ben exploited a weakness in Vader that was rooted in Anakin's fall to the dark side (re: attacking Dooku in a fit of anger and losing his hand) it would be far more acceptable than nonsense about high ground.


"High Ground" is always an issue in any battle, especially one where the skill level is so close. Ben did exploit a weakness in Vader, his anger/lack of judgement in the attack. Other than that they were pretty evenly matched (thats how the battle was designed) A true master would have played that attack just as Ben did, biding his time, waiting for a mistake to be made, or a slight opening he could take advantage of.

Quote
And the attempts at explaining away the construction of the Death star don't work for me AT ALL. Sorry, but it just doesn't add up. Twenty years to construct one Death Star ... and six months to two years to construct a second? Not even Henry Ford could achieve that feat. Lucas was feebly trying to tie-in images from the original film to justify Revenge of the Sith in the face of all logic.


if your refering to my explanations that were dripping with sarcasm, well i guess you missed the sarcasm. if your refering to the other explanations, while i think that could account for some time, i agree that i dont think it would account for 20 years. Yes lucas forced a lot of tie-ins, but that was done more so in the first 2, I think over all the tie-ins in ROTS flowed much better and were much more natural feeling, minus the few that i have mentioned in other threads.

Quote
It seems to me that you're choosing to file plot holes YOU don't like as "nitpicks."


oh damn, you got me there. I admit, Obi-Wan should not have ultimatly shown more mastery over the Jedi arts to defeat Anakin. Everyone knows that according to the OT Vader told Ben 'When last we met I was but the learner, Now I am the master'. Obviously Anakin should have won the fight on Mustafaar by that statement, or at least shown more mastery of the force. I guess that plot hole was just so big i didnt realize i was standing in it.

-Darth Simon

Post
#106973
Topic
Episode 3 was disappointing on many levels...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106973/action/topic#106973
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"MeBe, the did show (if i remember correctly) a recording of Anakin saving Palp/Killing Mace in the same 'tape' that had the Jedi Temple stuff"

Did you not know that Anakin was killing Jedi in the Temple? Did you not see dead bodies all over the floor?


Im well aware of that. However while he did his killing in the Jedi Temple, The Anakin/Palp/Mace confrontation was in Palp's office in the Senate Building. Unless your telling me that Palpatine was hanging out in the Jedi temple when Mace and the other Jedi confronted him to arrest him.

since the tape showed both of these scenes (as far as i recall) then it implies they had videotapes in both locations, unless each Jedi (or maybe Anakin did at the request of hte rest of the council) has a camera that follows them around personally that they are unaware of

-Darth Simon
Post
#106967
Topic
Episode 3 was disappointing on many levels...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106967/action/topic#106967
Time
MeBe, the did show (if i remember correctly) a recording of Anakin saving Palp/Killing Mace in the same 'tape' that had the Jedi Temple stuff which really doesnt make sense, but anyway. But i also think that up to that point, Palpatine didnt really show his evil side while in his office, he only did that while in his 'evil lair'

I too liked the end battle, but i too was also looking forward to that battle ever since the OT.

And the whole thing with the High Ground, Obi-Wan wasnt really any 'higher' than Anakin. He was however in a better position, more stable ground and all that (aka 'The High Ground', or the Upperhand) He knew if Anakin made a move he would be in position to well do what he did. If youve seen Highlander: Final Dimension, its like the scene where Duncan and Conner are fighting (actually twice, one during a flashback with training, the other during their actual fight) where Duncan gets Conner in a Position where he appears to have the upper hand, but Conner is really in control (reverse in the second fight). But during the first fight Conner new that Duncan was helpless and he could take his head at that point.

so yeah, most battles are determined by who has the advantage over the other. It all came down to Obi-Wans experience over Anakins Lack thereof and being driven by emotions.

thats a bit of a groundless nitpick if you ask me.

however, the death star complaint i have to agree with. apparently they ran into some design/construction flaws. maybe the trade federation had an embargo against them . because when they showed it, they had the outer frame already built enough that you could recognize it as the death star. so 20 years from that to it being complete? yeah, i dont buy it either.

-Darth Simon
Post
#106947
Topic
My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106947/action/topic#106947
Time
First, just want to make it clear, a lot of these points i havent sorted out/formed an opinion on whats going on which is my point in bringing up all the possiblities for discussion. To help me evaluate all the points and decide how i want to interperate it. So by no means am I stating these as facts, more as theories to be evaluated.

with that said...

I think my point about a (possible) Jedi Prophecy vs. a Sith Prophecy still stands. While Sidious is aware of the the Jedi prophecy, he is working to fullfill the Sith one. Also, i think its apparent that Anakin does end up fullfuilling the Jedi prophecy just not as smoothly as the Jedi thought.

second, im not sure on what you mean by the LOE explanation. However, why does Dooku have to be the one who discovered the Clone army (is this the LOE explanation, and did i miss this post?). Also, while it does make sense for Dooku to kill and impersonate Sifo. Doesnt it make more sense that Palpatine (as Sidious) manipulated Dooku, told him of the clone army, used him to further his plans. we've already established that Palpatine manipulates anyone and everyone if it will further his goals. Plus, Dooku was suprised at the speed that the Jedi/Republic came up with an army at the end of AOTC, which implies he had no knowledge of the Clone Army.

Plagueous' age: umm, how does it not happen if its not in the movie. especially since it is in the movie because Palpatine tells the story of it.

Kam, Obi-Wan never said he first met Anakin as an adult or during the clone wars. He said (from the script of ANH i foun online, draft 4)

Quote
BEN: He was the best star-pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior.
I understand you've become quite a good pilot yourself. And he was a
good friend. Which reminds me...


and from ROTJ draft 2

Quote
BEN
When I first knew him, your father was
already a great pilot. But I was amazed how
strongly the Force was with him. I took it
upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I
thought that I could instruct him just as
well as Yoda. I was wrong. My pride has
had terrible consequences for the galaxy.


unless i missed something Obi-Wan never said how old Anakin was when they met, or that they met during the war. Just that he was a good pilot/warrior (which i guess you could infer means it was during the war, but isnt necessarily the case)

some people speak of the OT as though it was flawless and didnt contain any contridictions or plot holes until the PT came around which im sure isnt true. The whole father/son brother/sister thing as it stands in the OT can be considered somewhat shaky if you think about it.

-Darth Simon
Post
#106913
Topic
Luke's ROTS Review (plot holes included)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106913/action/topic#106913
Time
I agree mostly with what Hardcore Legend and MeBeJedi said. I dont think there were any problems with the Taun Tauns at all. They used an animal native to Hoth to travel on before they got the Speeders to work in the cold? The lizard imo, moved awkwardly, had an annoying squeal every five minutes (if not more). and had too much focus on it, it was like super lizard.

as far as the Leia having memories of her mother, i agree that Padme should have lived for a few years after her delivery of the twins, even if they were split up right away. Leia is sensative to the force so the force related memories do work, plus its more likely Bail would give Leia info on her real mother than it is that Owen would give any information to Luke about his real parents. Plus, maybe Leia just has that Mother/Daughter connection and Luke has a Father/Son. I mean, Vader couldnt tell that Leia was his daugher until after he found out from Luke. Also Luke could sense Vader's presence whereas Leia wasnt able to. Just an idea.

and yeah, the whole your father wanted you to have this shouldnt even be an issue. I mean, once you find out that Vader was Lukes father in ESB, it should be obvious that Anakin never actually said, here, give this to my son when he's old enough and that it was just Obi-Wan protecting Luke from the truth (think of all the possiblities of what could have happened if luke found out Vader was his father at that point in time) and Obi-Wan also presenting the saber to Luke in a formal way.

-Darth Simon
Post
#106900
Topic
Geek-O-Meter
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106900/action/topic#106900
Time
whats funny is when i was watching ROTJ before going to see ROTS, during this scene i was like, did Han just grab Leia's boob This is having never heard any talk of this before, then i see it mentioned here...

i believe that Han copped a feel, but seriously, do you blame him

-Darth Simon
Post
#106893
Topic
Did they make the right decision? - use of technology in the Prequels
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106893/action/topic#106893
Time
Somewhat off topic, but according to an interview with Natalie Portman in the most recent SW Insider. The babies used at the end were animatronics that were actually controlled by Ewan McGregor. Though the article says they were later replaced by real babies, but is somewhat confusing/unclear as to if that means in later scenes or after the interview the scenes were redone with real babies.

-Darth Simon
Post
#106890
Topic
My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106890/action/topic#106890
Time
I agree that its pretty far fetched that he would have been able to manipulate it to that degree, but that doesnt mean that it wasnt what lucas was trying to imply.

also, remember Palps never really comes out and says, 'Plagueous was my master, i killed him after he tought me all he knows? Oh, hey want me to teach all that stuff to you and then you can kill me?' so is it not possible that he pushed the time of the story back? besides, an anecdotal story like that that takes place long ago serves Palpatines purpose better than, 'About 10 years ago, my master....'

Its possible that Plagueous created Anakin without Palpatine knowing, so when Palps killed Plagueous the knowledge of Anakin's origin died with him. Palps may have put 2 and 2 together if he knew that Anakin was 'fatherless' but as far as we know, not even Anakin is aware of this (we can only confirm that Shmi and Qui-Gon know this if im not mistaken)

the planet isnt necessarily random/remote to Plagueous, and if he died before Anakin was born then it makes sense that he wasnt by Plagueous' side all his life. If that is how it played out, im sure once he was born, Plagueous would have taken Anakin to train.

and remember, the Force has its own agenda so to speak, there are lines in the OT about it 'guiding us' and bringing people together and stuff like that, so it simply (or could have) guided Qui-Gon et al to Tatooine to find Anakin.

-Darth Simon

ps, i added some comments to my previous post about Anakin being appointed to the Jedi Council, so glance back up there if you read it before then.
Post
#106886
Topic
My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106886/action/topic#106886
Time
wow, just read 2 and a half pages of posts to catch up since last time i read this thread.

Just have a few comments/points/responses to make to various different posts.

First, I think a major point is being missed here. Palpatine is one conniving sob, hes sneaking and manipulative. He manipulates just about everyone throught the course of the PT (and actually the OT if you think about it)

first he uses the trade federation to blockade Naboo. Remember Palps is senator of Naboo at this point, so he obviously knows Padme, and knows how she will react. He then uses her to get the Current Chancellor booted from office so he can take over. I forget the group that he said was the real control over the senate (the group that was always with Valorum on his podium, and was later with Palps after he became chancellor, suprise, they were Palps 'minions'), who was controlling Valorum, but who was controlling them? Darth Sidious aka Palpatine. I agree that Valorum was actually not corrupt, but was in fact powerless because Palpatine already had people in place that were in positions that he was able to use them to tie up things in the Senate, therefore allowing him to convince Padme that the current Chancellor was indeed ineffective and unable to do anything (which in truth he was, but for different reasons)

then, in Episode II he gets padme off the planet for the vote of creating the army. He uses Jar-Jar, the gungan representative from naboo and not the brightest bulb of the bunch, to motion to give the Chancellor 'emergency powers' Jar-Jar is lead to believe that this is what Padme would have done, and since he's an idiot he does it thinking he is doing something for the greater good.

the seperatist, who do you think was leading the seperatists? Dooku? Grevious? Nope, it was Sidious also know as Palpatine. Remember he's pulling Dooku and Grevious' strings, he's really in charge of the Seperatist movement. And Palps doesnt care about them, hes using them to start his war, the war he will use to establish himself as emperor. Think about it. Seperatists win Palps is in charge. Clone Army wins, Palps is already controlling them, so he's still in charge. Its a win-win situation as far as palpatine is concerened. Is only real enemy is the Jedi, who havent been able to identify him as the Sith Master yet because he is clouding the force, manipulating it so they cant detect his presence.

and then he manipulates Anakin, tells him what he wants to hear, how to save Padme. and all that good stuff to turn him to the dark side.

he's manipulative, he's evil, he uses people to acheive his own goals.

like has been said, seeing the future with the force (or even sensing things) isnt 100% accurate, even for someone using the Dark Side, so Palpatine didnt quite forsee everything, Like the Jedi being sent to Naboo (though i would think that would be a logical event seeing as they are the protectors of peace) But either way, Palps isnt dumb, he modifies his plan accordingly (if its for the best dont know, ultimatly he succeeds in taking over the senate/republic so it works) and makes a decision and goes with it (he'd actually probably make a good business leader, or a political leader if he wasnt so evil ) You dont think he's not gonna check up on his 'forseeing the future' after these changes and possibly make further modifications.

as far as Farther-less Anakin (does that make him a bastard?) and Palps or Plagueous having created him. Just because they (Palps, Plague, or both) created him doesnt mean they were aware of the Prophecy, or doing it to fullfill the prophecy. Maybe they were doing it to create an 'Uber' Sith to destroy all the Jedi. Maybe they were trying to fullfill a Sith prophecy and not the Jedi prophecy that the Council speaks of. Maybe Plagueous created Anakin before Palps killed him (im convinced Plagueous was Palps master and go on that assumption) and Palps knew nothing about it. Maybe Even with his use of the Dark Side, Plagueous was really just a nice guy and just wanted to have a son and settle down or actually restore peice to the galaxy, but just felt that he could 'control' the dark side and gain its power and use it for good.

one last thing (i think) as far as Sifo-Dyas goes. Didnt Obi-Wan say that Sifo Dyas was killed before the Kaminos said he ordered the the clone army? Did Sifo-Dyas turn to the dark side? Was Sifo-Dyas Darth Plagueous? Did Palpatine use Sifo-Dyas' name to order the Clone army? Did Oswald really kill Kennedy? we may never learn the truth...but someone out there does know...

*edit*
one other thing, Anakins 'appointment' to the Council and not being made a master. While he might have been equal (or above) to the other Jedi in power/ability that does not in any way (at least in my opinion) make him ready to be a master. I dont know what the trials are, the clone wars cartoon hints that anakin has essentially gone through the same tests as the trials would put him through, but i feel that the Jedi Council's reason for not making him a master was because he was emotionally not ready. I mean you have to (well you dont have to but i think its pretty obvious) his head is a little (by little i mean much) too big for his shoulders. Making him a master would only fuel his already present arrogance. Sure it gives Palpatine some leverage to turn him against the Jedi, but remember thats what he does, he uses peoples weaknesses to manipulate them. The Jedi Council/Masters are wise (despite making a few mistakes, or possibly missing warning signs, they are still a lot more experienced and knowledgable than Anakin was) and generally know what is best. And while they were in a very tough spot with the war going on and all, i think ultimatly had Palpatine not been tempting/manipulating Anakin, the decision they made would have been best for him (and even with the manipulation it was probably still best, because not being made a Master was only one of Anakins gripes). Anakin was essentially young/immature/self centered, and needed to grow out of this to truely become the most powerful Jedi ever, unfortunatly Palpatine got to him before he could and thus Anaking wasnt able to overcome the Temptation of the Dark Side as we see Luke do in ROTJ.

-Darth Simon
Post
#106662
Topic
My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106662/action/topic#106662
Time
I may be reading too much into the line, but if my memory serves me correctly, Palpatine told Anakin that Darth Plagueous was able to create life from the Midichlorians themselves. He also said that Plagueous taught his apprentice everything he knew and then his apprentice killed him in his sleep.

No im pretty sure that Darth Plagueous was Palpatines master. But the real question is did Palpatine (or possilbe Plagueous) create Anakin from the Midichlorians seeing as in Episode I it is said he was 'born from the midichlorians themselves' or some such bs like that. and that he 'has no father'. So basically what are peoples thoughts on this, did Palps manipulate the midichlorians to 'father' Anakin or was this done by his master before hand. or am i just reading too much into the comment.

-Darth Simon
Post
#106644
Topic
Episode 3 was disappointing on many levels...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106644/action/topic#106644
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Asha
In the original RotJ novel, Ben and Owen were BROTHERS. It's implied Anakin didn't know Owen, which is why Luke was safe in his care. That's been tossed out of the cannon long since.


true, ill admit i think lucas botched up the relationship between own/ben/anakin/luke but that was done before this movie. Actually, from what ben tells Luke in ANH (he thought your father should stay here and take care of the farm, or something along those lines) so there are implications that Anakin knows Owen.

Quote

And why DIDN'T we see Yoda communicate with the Lars? Considering all the time wasted on eye candy in these prequels, why do we have to fill in these huge logical gaps? Especially given the fact that we have Yoda hiding Anakin's son on Anakin's home planet with people Anakin knows personally (that neither Yoda nor Ben know) ... while retaining Anakin's last name!? No wonder the Jedi fell under Yoda's not-so-keen leadership! It's amazing Yoda didn't sell the baby to Watto.


agree with bossk, i dont need to be spoon fed every little detail, you can use your own imagination to fill in minor gaps like that.

Quote

Quote
But when people say reasons they didnt like it was because of a characters name (plus Darth Pagueous was way worse a name then General Grevious) or because of unrealistic gravity on a space ship that is nitpicking and there is a difference between nitpicking and venting about a movie you didnt like that you may have truely wanted to like.


One man's nit is another man's special edition. Sadly, these prequels offer up more nits than thrills.

Grievous' lame name is relevant because the character was as lame as the name in the final film. Darth Bubonic is still an unknown, but given Lucas' track record, he's probably as lame as his name, too. (killed in his sleep? oh my.)


Darth Bubonic...haha, thats good.

but on that, i interpreted that as Darth Plagueous being Palps master which adds motivation and reason for his disregard for his Aprentices and willingness (and actualy mindset) to essentially replace them every now and then.

Quote

You admit you're consciously trying to enjoy these films by overlooking the faults. That's your choice, and I don't really care, but remember that you can enjoy a root canal if you try hard enough, too.


actually i said i overlook the minor mistakes/goofs/inconsistancies, whatever you want to call them and dont let those get in the way of my enjoying the movie as a whole. Thats differnt that conscoisly trying to enjoy the films as there is no trying i actually do enjoy them, but afterward when i reflect on the movie i dont let the little/minor things stop me from enjoying it.

Quote

I tried to enjoy these prequels ... all three of them. In fact, i think I gave the first two films more shakes than they deserved in the beginning ... until I realized that it took more effort to ignore the flaws than there was entertainment to be had from the films. Clone Wars gave me a little hope that Sith wouldn't disappoint, but that hope is dashed now.

I admit I walked out more drained and disappointed after Sith than the previous prequels because it marks the third clunker in a row, and all three films have thoroughly exhausted my ability to forgive the prequels' flaws. There's no motiviation to ignore Sith's flaws ... the prequels are over -- they were all underwhelming -- and there's no hope for improvement. That's why I'm not going to bother seeing Sith again in the theatre. If I didn't even enjoy it the first time, there's no reason to try to force it now.

I'm not alone ... the audience at last night's screening was as unenthusiastic as I am today. The only shared laughs were inspired by the love scenes. The theatre erupted into a huge guffaw when Vader yelled, "NOOOOOOO." The only shared cheer came when Yoda squashed the royal guards (that was pretty cute). No applause at the end despite an energetic opening. Everyone who lingered outside afterwards was saying that the film was a loser. And I mean EVERYONE. "That's a Star Wars film I never want to see again," said one filmgoer. "My childhood dreams are now dead," said another. "I can't believe how much that sucked," growled a guy in red Darth Vader t-shirt.


Im not alone either. Im convinced (not saying you) that their are people that while they said they went in wanting to enjoy the movie, and hoping it would be better, deep down the really wanted it to fail because otherwise they wouldnt be justified in hating the Prequals, and they wouldnt be able to hate them all or justify all their comments against Lucas. There were some cheers and laughs during my screening. Minor applause at the end. But I enjoyed it, do i applaud at any movie, no, not really. I know people that think its dumb when people applaud cause its not like the actors can actually hear you cheering them does that mean they enjoy a movie less than someone that does applaud? No.

either way, im done, like i said, your free to be dissapointed in the movies all you want, you can even hate them for all i care, im not trying to convince you of anything. I just think there is too much focusing on the negative and think people should give themselves a fair chance when watching the movies.

-Darth Simon
Post
#106608
Topic
Episode 3 was disappointing on many levels...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106608/action/topic#106608
Time
no movies shouldnt dissapoint you, but its also really only a form of entertainment not a way of life. Yeah I agree that a good movie will keep you 'in it' even during parts that are not possible in real life. But at the same time you need to give a little to. Willing suspension of disbelief...if you dont allow yourself to set aside disbelief then you're not gonna enjoy it.

Dont get me wrong, im not saying you have to enjoy ROTS, or that you even cant express your dislike for it. by all means go ahead. But when people say reasons they didnt like it was because of a characters name (plus Darth Pagueous was way worse a name then General Grevious) or because of unrealistic gravity on a space ship that is nitpicking and there is a difference between nitpicking and venting about a movie you didnt like that you may have truely wanted to like. But i also get the impression that a lot of people (not saying people here or anyone inparticular, but more in general) will not give the PT's any real chance after their dissapointment in Episode I (a dissapointment you had to expect in the first place, cause it would never be able to meet up with 25 years of hype no matter how good it was, nor would any movie). Did i like it? yes, ive said so before. Do i have problems with it? or did I think parts were week/cheesey? Yes. But I choose to generally overlook those. Even though i liked it I still like to discuss aspects of it, and throw opinions back and forth with people that disagree with me. as it allows me to see aspects i havent noticed before. But when those are negative do i let them get in the way of my original feeling after the movie? No, It may alter it slighty but it rarely if ever stops me from liking the movie at all.

Im not trying to be all high and mighty, or lecture people that dont like the movie and force them to like it. You dont like it thats no skin off my back. I just think some of the reasons being stated for not liking it are trivial and dont really affect the movie as a whole. Maybe that was just the straw the broke the camels back type thing, i dunno.

Sorry for the slight rant, I appreciate that you dont take over threads that speak positivly about the movie and trash the people that liked it and their opinions. Im not trying to take over this thread and apologize if this comes across that way, but I think i understand where sean wookie was coming from with his comment about all movies being dissapointing to some extent and just wanted to make it clear that i may refute and say things agains your arguements im not trying to change you opinion and force you to like the movie, or take away your right to vent about it.

So vent away (not that you need my permission) just try not to nitpick to much, thats how you get an ulcer

-Darth Simon
Post
#106601
Topic
My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106601/action/topic#106601
Time
Ok, I posted a few tidbits on how I felt about the movies last night, but gonna jump on the bandwagon and give (or try to) a more full review.

*SPOILERS*

I really liked the movie, I didnt really have any problem with the flow and also thought the dialog was delivered much better so even the stuff that would have been cringe worthy didnt make you cringe.

I thought the clone war/senate take over/rise of the empire was a great concept and I think it was pulled off very well.

I did think that Vader's lines after his costume were a bit weak, and their was a drastic change to Anakins character at that point that I found a bit to abrubt. But I did like how they showed Palpatine's manipulation of Vader. Telling Vader that he killed Padme, though while technically true, it wasnt entirely true. But you can see how Palpatine manipulates Vader to maintain control.

I think some good points on Palpatine were revealed to. To me it seemed to show him as not really keeping his apprentices around too long. Palps killed his master Darth Plagueous (could they possibly have come up with a lamer name). And now he doesnt want to let any of his Apprentices get to powerful that they will overthrow/kill him like he did to his master. But at the same time he wants a powerful apprentice. Did anyone else pick up one possible hint that the Emperor (or mayber his master) created Anakin? THe comment about creating life from the midichlorians. It wasnt fully explained/explored, but it kind of sheds light on the 'born from the midichlorians' comment from episode I.

One of my biggest gripes is probably artoo. I thought he did way to much. I mean, with his abilities did they even need anyone else there. why couldnt Obi-Wan's R4 unit fight off those little droids on his ship but R2 had no problem? But i thought the PT/OT tie-ins were done pretty well/smoothly over all. they werent as forced as in the other episodes (except that yoda chewbacca line).

I did find it somewhat wierd that Padme had 2 names just picked out for her kids, and just tosses out the name after hearing It's a boy/It's a girl. but then also just dies 1 minute later. I also, like someone said (possibly in a different thread) would have liked Leia to be kept a secret. Luke didnt matter, because even if they did, once you see/hear Luke Skywalker in Episode IV you would know its Anakin's son. But Leia said she new her real mother, and 'she died when i was very young' now, newborn is considered very young, but too young for leia to remember images of her mother.

The Anakin/Obi wan interaction was great. It showed the strong friendship they had. Anakin risking his own life to save Obi-Wan in the beginning, the scene where even after Palpatine convinces him to 'murder' Dooku Anakin still refuses to just leave Obi-Wan behind. At the end when Obi-Wan finds out about Anakin having turned to the dark side I actually felt his pain, even though we know the truth all along. I felt as if Obi-Wan took the responsibily for Anakins turn, hence why he felt it was his duty to rid the world of Vader even though he obviously didnt want to hurt Anakin.

I didnt have a problem with the Qui-Gon ghost explanation either. I did however expect him to appear at that point, and was suprised that lucas didnt do so, but at the same time i wasnt 'upset' by that or the explanation given as some people appeared to have been. First people claim they dont need an explanation but then when Lucas doesnt have all the Jedi appear you need it spelled out for you. Could it have just been a power thing? Qui-Gon figured it out, but maybe he only figured out how to do the breaking the voice barrier. Maybe he wasnt powerful enough to appear as a Ghost. Maybe Anakin could come back as a Ghost because he learned the method through the Dark Side, and he was extremely powerful in the force. Either way, i thought it was a nice touch to the achieving 'immortality', which was part of Anakins reason for turning to the dark side, but ashowing that it was possible to do while still following the path of light.

I felt kinda bad for C-3PO at the end when he got his memory wipe. It seemed cruel. Why him and not R2? I realize it was really needed as a stop gap for plot holes created by including the droids in the PT. Someone made a comment (again, maybe in a different thread) about artoo getting seriously damage hence loosing some (most) of his gadgets he had in the PT. First, i was thinking how the end of ANH, kind of accomplishes this because artoo is pretty much destroyed and rebuilt, so its possible they didnt have th parts to give back his rocket packs and all that. but i agree that had this happened at the end of ROTS, then it would also explain why they didnt wipe R2's memory (oh, he was destroyed/rebuilt, his memory has been taken care of already, do the same to 3PO and we are all good)

Overall i thought the movie was great, I considered going to a digital showing today, but have other things i should do. Ill probably go see the digital version this weekend and im sure ill pick up on other little points that i missed/forgot.

sorry for the somewhat jumpy review/analysis but my mind is still reeling from the movies and my thoughts are coming a million miles a minute or not at all. I think Lucas did a great job pulling it all together and will see it at least once more in theaters, probably 2 or 3 though, and will get the dvd when it is released. I thought it was a satisfying end to the PT and will flow nicely to the OT

-Darth Simon.
Post
#106523
Topic
My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106523/action/topic#106523
Time
I too think Jay's review is pretty well rounded, and captures the esence of the movie. I think that there were lines that were cheesy but their delivery was much better so they didnt have the same effect. The one line i thought was an exception to this was Yoda's mention of Chewbacca's name. Other than that I thought Lucas did a much better job of all the OT tie-ins (and there were quite a few), they seemed more natural unlike the other two movies where they came off forced and/or poorly done.

-Darth Simon
Post
#106519
Topic
Star Wars - Episode III - The Revenge of the Sith; my thoughts on it...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106519/action/topic#106519
Time
I too enjoyed the movie. Yes I did have some issues with it, but I dont find it necessary to dwell on the negative. Over all the movie was very good in my opinion and pulled the story out of a pretty deep whole that was seemed to have been created with the first two movies. Im convinced there are people on the board that actually wanted to hate ROTS and would/will do anything to convince themselves that its the worse movie since 'From Justin to Kelly'.

I chose to post this in this thread cause i got the impression opinions that go against 'worst movie every' would be more accepted. I mean, listen to some of the arguements used for why it sucks. 'the new transitions sucked', 'i didnt like this characters name', 'grevious had a bit of a cold' man, and you guys call anakin a whiney bitch. the gripes you mention make up all of maybe 30 minutes of a 2.5 hour movie. Not saying all your greviences (no pun intended) are negligible, I too thought the same exact thing about R2's massive capabilities in this movie and how he did way to much

-Darth Simon
Post
#106352
Topic
A discussion/comparison of Lightsaber battles throughout the SW Saga
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106352/action/topic#106352
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"First shouldnt he have sensed Obi-Wan using the force to get the saber"

Force sensing is nowhere near that specific, and I might remind you of Dooku's statement about with Force powers being equal, a duel is the only way to resolve who is the strongest. So, not only are Force use and dueling not considered the same thing, but use of a lightsaber is seen as a greater ability than use of the Force.


hmmm, I guess I never really agreed with Dooku, Anyone can learn to sword fight, but not everyone can master the force, so how exactly is dueling with lightsabers a greater ability than the use of the force. I mean, when you use a lightsaber in a duel you are Simultaneously using the force. As Qui-Gon told Shmi, 'He sees things before they happen, thats how he appears to have such fast reflexes' This is how ive always looked at lightsaber battles, and the Jedi's ability to deflect blaster bolts, they know where the strike is, or the blaster bolt is before its shot, so they've already moved to block it. Blaster bolts travel pretty quickly so i dont care how fast you are your not gonna block it unless you know where its going. So when it comes to lightsaber battles, there is a lot of force use in the battle itself, because you have to essential 'mask' your moves from your opponent and read their moves. Its basically really advanced reading of your opponent, just like you normally would do in most martial arts, except that you have the Force to assist you.


Quote
Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
Personally, Luke vs Vader ROTJ will always be the battle. Especially when Luke lets his anger get the best of him, the male chorus kicks in, and it's just a powerful moment. You feel the weight of the scene. Son against Father. Son threading dangerously close to becoming that which he fights. It's short, but it pretty much makes the film along with the space battle and unmasking.

Hmm.., MeBeJedi sniped me here. I too like the ESB and TPM duals for the same reasons. They're probably two and three repectively. I'm hoping ROTS can ehco some of that power like I long hoped it would. I'll know in about fourteen hours.


Yeah, I have to agree with you about your comments with the ROTJ battle, it is a very powerful scene. But I still like the ANH battle because of the stalemate between the two, you can tell that they are both very good and neither one can really get an opening that they can take advantage of to defeat the other. This opinion of the battle though is heavily based on my Kendo experience and not so much the scene as a whole.

-Darth Simon
Post
#106343
Topic
A discussion/comparison of Lightsaber battles throughout the SW Saga
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106343/action/topic#106343
Time
**My apologies in advance for the long post, if that turns you off of the thread read the first 2 and the last paragraph for a more general idea on the thoughts ive expressed and dont let the lenght keep you from contributing**

My thoughts on the battles First I just want to say that I am currently studying Iaido and Kendo. Both are Japanese Sword Styles and Kendo especially shows its influence on the Lightsaber Battles in the movies, especially in the OT (as Lucas has said he has drawn influence from Japanese culture and may even have mentioned Kendo at one point, though I do not know if he has or not). I mention my study not to say I am an expert on Swordfighting, far from as I've been studying these for not even a year. I do feel however that what I have learned been told allows me to see Tactics/Style that while I have not yet mastered myself would not be apparent to those who have no knowledge of these styles.

For those that dont know, Kendo actually involves fighting/sparing with full armour and bamboo swords. It is a Samurai style and can actually be seen, fairly accurately, in The Last Samurai. Iaido is the art of drawing and cutting and does not actually involve sparing. But actually uses an unsharpened blade (Iaito), and then a sharpened blade (Kensin) when you have reached a certain level of skill, while Kendo is done with a Bamboo sword (Shanai) for the sparring and uses wooden sword for the kata (Bokken)

***If any of my info on Kendo/Iai is incorrect, or my spellings simply wrong, please let me know and ill correct it, I dont claim to be an expert, and probably know/can explain far less about it than i should be able to seeing my involvment/interest in both arts***

1.1) This is a brief battle with Qui-Gon mainly on the defensive. Also, Maul is only using a single blade. Had this laster longer and Qui-Gon not 'bailed' I think Qui-Gon's demise would

1.2) Good battle, in my opinion its pretty realistic, probably because there were real martial artists working on it. Plus the musical score during this battle is one of my favorites. I think this battle really shows Darth Mauls power as he is 'easily' holding his own against 2 Jedi. I think Maul is a better swordsman than both of the Jedi, but that they're teaming up is what is allowing them to 'hold thier own'

1.3) An extension of 1.1, basically Obi-Wan is taken out of the mix, Qui-Gon still holds his own during most of it, Like i said, Maul is a better fighter than Qui-Gon, so its really just a matter of time before Maul defautls him.

1.4) Obi-Wan finally catches up with Maul, but is too late to help Qui-Gon. I dont think Obi-Wan could normally have beat Maul on his own, but I think that he taps into the Dark Side during this battle giving him the needed boost in his skill to 'get the jump on' Darth Maul. However, when Obi-Wan does make his strike Darth Maul is completely taken by suprise which I found totally bogus. First shouldnt he have sensed Obi-Wan using the force to get the saber, Second he's a master Martial Artist, he would have cut down Obi-Wan as soon as he landed if not before, Obi-Wan didnt move fast enough to actually take someone of Darth Maul's skill by suprise. Obviously Obi-Wan's triumph was necessary, but I feel it was somewhat rushed and poorly done. I actually like the idea of Obi-Wan temporarily harnessing the darkside to defeat Maul (the anger/hate from seeing his master slain) and think this could have been expanded into character development for Obi-Wan as part of his change from headstrong to the wise Jedi Master we meet in Episode IV.

2.1) Ok, this battle is decent, up until the point that Obi-Wan gets injured. Now let me share with you a story that got e-mailed out from another Kendo Federation. I did not get the actual email so this is just a short recap. A student was practicing Iaido with a Kensin (the sharpened sword) and during noto (probably spelled wrong, but this is putting the sword back in the sheath or sia (again probably spelled wrong) ) he missed the sia and ended up putting the sword through is arm. Whats the point of this story you ask? REAL SWORDS ARE VERY SHARP. So I would have to imagine that a lightsaber could/would cut someone/something just as easily. So when Obi-Wan got 'nicked' in the arm it probably should have been cut off, not just a little cut. The leg didnt look as bad of a cut, but i would imagine it would have been worse than it was.

2.2) Anakin was pretty good with the 2 swords, this would be harder to control than one for obvious reasons, but if you were practiced in this method (which i dont think anakin really was) it would be more effective. Due to his lack of practice it makes sense that he was disarmed of the one Saber, and his lack of experience cockiness would lead likely lead to the result we saw. Some may say the whole limb cutting off thing is getting pretty old and overused, but I think in this case it was necessary/appropriate. He shows Anakin's start at becoming more machine than man, and also adds to the connection we see in ROTJ when Luke cuts off Vader's arm and we see Luke look at his own cybernetic arm.

2.3) Yoda vs. Dooku, where do I start? As was stated in a blog that was posted in some other thread (either the happy b-day lucas thread or the old people thread) Too much "wasted" movement for people that are supposed to be at the level of swordsmanship that Yoda and Dooku were at. Plus Yoda uses way too much effort in this sequance during his use of the force. While I think this is one fight (the Yoda aspect of it anyway) that a lot of people wanted to see, I think it probably would have been better left out. To show Yoda fight with the Level that he's at it wouldnt have been as 'exciting' to the general audience to see on screen. This is probably skewed by my thinking of the battle in terms of Kendo, and i know there are other styles, but i feel that someone as old/skilled as Yoda would fight with more of a reliance on Form/Quick strikes at openings than jumping around like a piece of flubber.

4.1) Now this is a fight. Someone said something in trooperman's thread about his edits about this fight being terrible, but i have to disagree. As a pure sword fight, knowing this is essentially Kendo being used. This fight was amazing. Neither one, Vader/Kenobi were able to break the others stance/defense. I dont know about you, but everytime i watch this scene i can feel the tension between the two blades...the calculation of every movement by each person. This is probably my favorite fight, though many people might see it as boring and two people basically clashing swords now and then. But taking in context of the Style they are using you can see the mastery each has over their form. I realy cant even explain it, I think if you know basic Kendo you can see what im talking about here and what makes it so great.

5.1) A little more livly than the above fight, but still good, still alot of Kendo influence can be seen here. A bit inconsitant with more activity on Vader's part. But really, Its probably more due to Luke's lack of skill/experience. This leaves him more open to attacks, and more likely to rush into attacks himself, remember, this whole fight was brought about by Luke's rushing in to save his friends despite Yoda & Ben's 'warnings'. He's inexperienced and it shows in his style.

6.1) You can see Luke has gotten better as a swordsman. He still rushes in, and its a more active battle than 4.1 was, but i think thats also partly due to his increase in skill and his increase in confidence. Plus, there were definate dark side vibes coming from luke during much of his attack.

Overall, i think the battles we've seen in the PT so far have more action because thats what people, in general, want and respond to. We see more action in the 2nd and 3rd movies of the OT as well. But
Post
#106342
Topic
A discussion/comparison of Lightsaber battles throughout the SW Saga
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106342/action/topic#106342
Time
I thought a thread dedicated to discussing/analyzing each of the various Lightsaber battles that take place during the 6 movies would be intersting. I know I have my thoughts on each of the battle and would like to see other peoples takes.

The point here is to simply discuss the battles in general, mention your favorite battle and the reasons why its your favorite, analyze the battles as far as style/realism/etc, or anything else you would like to discuss for any of the lightsaber battles. I composed a 'complete' list of the battles, if you feel i neglected or just missed any let me know and Ill add it to the list. The List also will allow us to refer to the battle using the number so we all know what battle we are talking about.

I would like to keep this a spoiler free thread. I realize that Episode III comes out tomorrow and many people here will probably see it, but I will leave ALL battles out until after the weekend which I feel gives anyone that is avoiding spoilers time enough to see the movie. So please wait until I add the battles from episode III before you discuss them.

Episode I
1.1) Qui-Gon vs. Darth Maul (Tatooine dessert)
1.2) Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon vs. Darth Maul (Naboo hanger)
1.3) Qui-Gon vs. Darth Maul (Naboo hanger)
1.4) Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul (Naboo Hanger)

Epiode II
2.1) Obi-Wan vs. Count Dooku
2.2) Anakin vs. Count Dooku
2.3) Yoda vs. Count Dooku

Episode III
3.X) excluded until a few days after release of episode III

Episode IV
4.1) Obi-Wan vs. Darth Vader

Episode V
5.1) Luke vs. Darth Vader

Episode VI
6.1) Luke vs. Darth Vader

-Darth Simon