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Darth Malgus

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Join date
16-Nov-2021
Last activity
2-Dec-2022
Posts
178

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Post
#1507464
Topic
Anakin/Vader and mortality
Time

You know, the more I read this discussion, the more I realize that this is not a discussion about the Jedi teachings and theology, but simply a confrontation between two philosophies and two different ways of understanding life.

On one hand, there are those who are in favor of Romanticism, expressing their passions and having selfish feelings, but without letting these things take over and balancing them with altruism. On the other hand, there are those who are completely opposed to passion and selfishness and profess absolute altruism, instead of a form of altruism that Is balanced with selfishness. It’s for this reason that Anakin’s story and tragedy have a different meaning depending on the person who talks about them.

Our contrasts have actually nothing to do with Star Wars, they’re simply a reflection of what we think and what our philosophy of life is. So if anything, if we have to discuss these things, I think we should do it in the appropriate sections, where we can discuss about personal things, philosophy and stuff like that. Because again, this discussion about the Jedi is nothing more than a transposition of what we think and what our philosophy of life is. So I think we should bring the discussion back to the objective reality of things, without necessarily having to involve Star Wars.

Post
#1507266
Topic
Prequel Nostalgia
Time

There’s a lot I love about Lucas because when you read what he was intending for for the prequels it really is brilliant, but man he needed someone else helping him with his scripts.

Thank God it didn’t turn out the way George wanted to, because otherwise I would have hated the Prequels, and perhaps the entire Star Wars franchise. Lol. As I said multiple times, it’s ironically George bad writing that precisely saved the Prequels from being hated from me.

Post
#1507003
Topic
Prequel Nostalgia
Time

Yeah, it’s a strange phenomenon. A few years ago, it seemed like prequel fans used to be more laid back and more open to criticism of the movies. They used to be more willing to laugh alongside you at the prequels’ ridiculous moments. But as time has gone on, the prequel fandom has gotten more and more fervent and unironic and sensitive to criticism, which is a shame. Now you have all these video essays about how the prequels are masterpieces and how the flaws aren’t actually flaws.

I don’t want to start an unnecessary controversy, but I want to give my opinion on this topic, since I’m a Prequel fan.
I’m one of those people who’s not bothered by the things that annoy everyone. For example, the dialogue and the love story don’t bother me, as well as Jar Jar. So, I personally don’t see these things as flaws. However, I think it’s wrong to say that the Prequels have no flaws in general. But I think that the people who say that the Prequels have no flaws are driven to do so because, on the other side, there are people who say that they have ONLY flaws. That is, people of one extreme act the way they act because on the other side there are people of the other extreme. Since there are people who say that the Prequels have ONLY flaws, then there are people who, as an automatic reaction, defend everything about the movies and say they have NO flaws. The fact that there are no Original Trilogy fans who defend everything about the movies, is explained simply by the fact that there are no people who say that the Originals have only flaws, unlike the Prequels.

Post
#1506456
Topic
Anakin/Vader and mortality
Time

The “no attachments” doctrine is about not letting your feelings interfere with a mission and being willing to let things go when need be. Obi-Wan loves Satine, in The Clone Wars, he even says, “It’s not that we’re not allowed to have these feelings, it’s natural”, but he doesn’t let it interfere with a mission like Anakin does. And when Satine dies, Obi-Wan lets her go. He doesn’t succumb to the dark side. He doesn’t close out his emotions. He feels his emotions but then moves on. When Bo-Katan tries to emotionally blackmail him, he doesn’t fall for it, because he can’t let his emotions cloud his judgement. The same thing happens after Qui-Gon’s death. He openly cries, but then moves on and honors his memory by training Anakin.

I quote only this small passage, because I’m lazy and I don’t want to quote every statement you made in your reply.

I don’t think the Jedi rules are 100% wrong. I agree with some parts of them, but I disagree with other parts of them. And most importantly, I disagree with their practical application by the Jedi.

Must we learn to let go? Yes, of course. But letting go doesn’t mean not caring about the people we love. We are all attached to someone (in the Buddhist sense), because when we discover that a person we love is in danger of life, then we are all worried, we are all worried about losing that person. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with this, and we shouldn’t suppress the fear of loss. I think it’s right, not only to be concerned about the people we love, but also to try to protect them and prevent bad things to happen to them. Wanting to protect people close to us is a natural human instinct, thinking that it’s wrong and trying to repress it, in my opinion, is not right and doesn’t lead to anything good. Learning to let go is right, of course. But letting go should be the last thing you should do, not the first. If you find out that someone you love is in danger of life, then you should do everything that’s lawful (that is, everything that doesn’t lead you to hurt others) to save that person, and in case you fail, despite you did your best, then, only then, you have to let go. Letting go should be what you do when you realize that you can’t do anything else.

Also, you can’t expect a person to let go immediately. If a person we love dies in front of us, then it’s normal to be sad for a while, you can’t expect a person to see someone die in front of their eyes and a few seconds later act like nothing happened. It’s not human, and above all it’s not healthy, because letting go immediately means repressing oneself. And as everyone knows, repressing oneself where it’s not necessary never leads to anything good. The fact that some people, under certain circumstances, manage to let go immediately is not a valid excuse to justify the Jedi doctrine, because not everyone can let go immediately. We’re not all equal, and we shouldn’t be expected to be all equal. Each of us has different personal needs, because we’re not robots.

Furthermore, I think that being totally selfless, like the Jedi claim to be, is impossible. Love always requires a certain degree of possessiveness. If I love someone, I want to be with that person not only because I like him/her as a person, but also because the presence of that person makes me happy and makes me feel good. If the presence of that person didn’t make me feel good, then there would be no reason for me to engage in a romantic relationship with that person in the first place. In love, you have to give and receive. You give your love in the hope that your love will be reciprocated and that the exchange of that love will make you happy. A stoic love without attachment is simply not true love, but a generic feeling of relative interest. If we find out that someone we love is in danger of life, then it’s right to try to save him/her. Not just because we want that person to be good, but also because that person makes us feel good. In life one cannot be either entirely selfless or completely selfish. You need a balance, and that’s what neither the Jedi nor the Sith (as well as George Lucas himself) have ever understood.

Also, I don’t think that the Jedi can give lessons about what absolute love and compassion mean, since they were the first not to practice this phantom “universal love”. If they really did have unconditional love for the entire Galaxy, then they would have paid more attention to civilians and ordinary people instead of lock themselves in their own Temple and put themselves at the service of corrupt politicians, and maybe they would have cared more about the millions of people who lived in slavery and disease on Tatooine and other criminal-controlled planets. “I’m not here to free slaves”, Qui-Gon said. A great example of unconditional love for every sentient being, I must say! It’s too easy to practice “absolute love and compassion” exclusively with the people we know. And yet, this is what the Jedi do, because I don’t remember having ever seen them going out in the middle of the streets to help starving people. I mean, they didn’t even had to left Coruscant to do it, because you know, the low levels of Coruscant are already full of poor people who need help. So the Jedi should stop thinking of themselves as the custodians of absolute truth, because they’re the first to not practice what they preach.

In addition, talking about Obi-Wan as the perfect example of a person who lets go immediately is, in my opinion, wrong. Yes, Obi-Wan managed to let go immediately when Siri Tachi died, but he couldn’t let go immediately when Qui-Gon was killed. When Maul killed Qui-Gon, all Obi-Wan did was attack him aggressively and violently. I mean, this is no mystery to anyone, just review the scene of the fight between Maul and Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan was so upset and angry that he let his emotions take over, and as soon as the shield opened he immediately threw himself at Maul, attacking him. Of course, after killing him, Obi-Wan calmed down and ran to Qui-Gon to hear his last words. But in the meantime he fought Maul and killed him, driven by anger and aggressive feelings. So, I think Obi-Wan is quite hypocritical in criticizing Anakin, because he did pretty much the same, although on a smaller scale.

The Jedi think Dooku could never kill anyone. That’s true. But let’s examine carefully what both Mace Windu and Ki Adi Mundi say. Ki Adi Mundi says: “He’s a politically idealist, not a murderer”. After that, Mace says: “You must know, My Lady, that Dooku was once a Jedi. He could never kill anyone, it’s not in his character”. Well, to be honest, the only thing I see in this dialogue is simply the Jedi being arrogant. Yes, they don’t think that Dooku could ever kill anyone, they don’t believe that he’s a murderer. But why do they think that? But it’s clear, because he was once a Jedi, and for God’s sake, everyone knows the Jedi are perfect, so even if one of them leaves the Order, he could never become a murderer. It’s not that the Jedi are saying those things about Dooku because they sincerely respect him and have affection for him, but simply because they have so much faith in their own teachings that they think that even if someone leaves the Order, he could never become a murderer or hurt others.

In addition, the statue that the Jedi have dedicated to Dooku inside the Temple is not a commemorative or appreciative statue. In the Temple library there are 20 statues, depicting the so-called Lost 20, that is, 20 Jedi masters who at some point decided to leave the Order. Dooku is part of the group of the Lost 20, and the Jedi have placed his statue in the Temple library, not to commemorate him, but simply as a warning. Further information here: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Lost_Twenty/Legends
So, despite what you say, those who left the Order were frowned upon, and leaving the Order was seen as something almost shameful, reprehensible. To say that Anakin could have left the Order at any time without any repercussions is, therefore, absolutely false. Despite this, however, Anakin was planning to leave the Order after the end of the War to live with Padmé on Naboo, as is clear from Revenge of the Sith.

In conclusion.
Although the idea of learning to let go is basically right, I think the Jedi have implemented it too radically. Instead of forbidding attachment (as intended by Lucas),I think they should have taught how to control it, allowing people to express the fear of loss in a balanced way. Their wrong teachings played a very important role in Anakin’s fall, because they didn’t allow him to handle his emotions in a healthy and human way (because I repeat, suppressing the fear of loss is neither healthy nor human). Then, if we also add Anakin’s manipulation by Palpatine, who taught Anakin to handle his negative feelings in the wrong way, then we have Darth Vader as a result. Darth Vader is simply what you obtain when you mix up a person with already existing emotional problems, the wrong teachings of the Jedi that doesn’t allow this emotional problems to be solved correctly, and finally Palpatine’s willingness to take advantage of all the above to carry out his own agenda.

Post
#1506385
Topic
Anakin/Vader and mortality
Time

Well, although I’m usually a fan of Lucas’ work, in this case I can only disagree with him. As I have already explained elsewhere, I don’t share his view about the Jedi and Anakin’s fall, because I think that the Jedi philosophy was inherently flawed and that Anakin doesn’t deserve to be blamed for what happened. That said, I think what you highlighted is simply a coincidence. I mean, the same reasoning could be applied to Anakin and Padmé’s respective last words. Padmé’s last words were: “I know there is good in him, I know there is, still”, while Anakin’s last words were: “You were right”. Well, put this way, it could almost feel like a connection, when in reality it’s simply a coincidence. The fact that there are sentences that casually rhyme within the movies doesn’t mean that there is a real connection between them. These are just coincidences, and to derive an entire explanation/theory from them is at least exaggerated in my opinion.

Post
#1503723
Topic
You're Disney, what do you do with Star Wars?
Time

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

I think it might be simpler to just do it the way the Star Trek EU does and let people choose to integrate or not integrate whichever canon they want.

Well, no. Unlike most of you, I’m a person who actually cares about continuity. I would like Star Wars to be a multimedia project, a single universe made up of multiple media that’s basically consistent with itself and between the various stories, as much as possible. I’m absolutely in favour of the existence of and official continuity, I think it’s necessary. This doesn’t prevent the individual fans to create their own personal Canon, and in fact I am the first to do so. But I think the existence of a stable and consistent official continuity is important.

Why

Why not?

StarkillerAG said:

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

I think it might be simpler to just do it the way the Star Trek EU does and let people choose to integrate or not integrate whichever canon they want.

Well, no. Unlike most of you, I’m a person who actually cares about continuity. I would like Star Wars to be a multimedia project, a single universe made up of multiple media that’s basically consistent with itself and between the various stories, as much as possible. I’m absolutely in favour of the existence of and official continuity, I think it’s necessary. This doesn’t prevent the individual fans to create their own personal Canon, and in fact I am the first to do so. But I think the existence of a stable and consistent official continuity is important.

Why

Why not? Canon isn’t the biggest deal ever, but it’s nice to have everything in a fictional universe be roughly consistent with each other. That way, you get to avoid the confusion that comes with insanely tangled multiverse timelines, and every installment feels like it “matters” in the grand scheme of things.

Exactly!

Post
#1503531
Topic
What is your personal canon?
Time

A necessary update:

Darth Malgus said:

My personal Star Wars Canon Is the following:

  • Down of the Jedi (comics)
  • Tales of the Jedi (comics)
  • Knights of the Old Republic (comics)
  • Knights of the Old Republic I
  • The Old Republic: Revan
  • Knights of the Old Republic II
  • The Old Republic: Deceived
  • Star Wars: The Old Republic
  • Knight Errant (comics and novel)
  • The Darth Bane Trilogy
  • Darth Plagueis (novel)
  • Jedi Apprentice (series)
  • Republic comics (from issue 1 to 6)
  • Jedi Council: Acts of War
  • The Journal of Darth Maul
  • The Phantom Menace
  • Bounty Hunter
  • Jango Fett: Open Seasons
  • Republic comics (from issue 7 to 49)
  • Rogue Planet
  • Outbound Flight
  • The Approaching Storm
  • Attack of the Clones (except Scene 34)
  • Republic Commando (video game)
  • Republic Commando (novel series)
  • The Clone Wars (2002 video game)
  • Republic comics (from issue 50 to 83)
  • The Cestus Deception
  • Clone Wars (2003): Chapter 6-7
  • Star Wars: Jedi (comic series)
  • Shatterpoint
  • Clone Wars (2003): Chapters 1–5/Chapters 8-21
  • The MedStar Duology
  • Star Wars: General Grievous (comics)
  • Star Wars: Obsession (comics)
  • Jedi Trial
  • Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
  • Star Wars: Brothers in Arms
  • Labyrinth of Evil
  • Revenge of the Sith
  • Kenobi (novel)
  • Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader
  • Star Wars: Purge (comic series)
  • Star Wars: Dark Times (series)
  • The Coruscant Knights Trilogy
  • The Last of the Jedi (series)
  • The Last Jedi (novel)
  • Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison
  • Darth Vader and the Cry of Shadows
  • The Han Solo Trilogy
  • Death Star (novel)
  • The Force Unleashed (video game)
  • Star Wars: Extinction (comic series)
  • Star Wars: Empire (comic series)
  • A New Hope
  • Star Wars: Dark Forces
  • Star Wars: Rebellion (comic series)
  • Scoundrells
  • Allegiance
  • Choices of One
  • The Empire Strikes Back
  • Fallen Angel: A Star Wars Short Film
  • Shadows of the Empire
  • Mara Jade: By The Emperor’s Hand
  • Return of the Jedi
  • The Truce at Bakura
  • Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II
  • The X-Wing series
  • The Courtship of Princess Leia
  • Tatooine Ghost
  • The Thrawn Trilogy
  • The Jedi Academy Trilogy
  • Jedi Academy: Leviathan
  • Jedi Outcast
  • Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
  • The Hand of Thrawn Duology
  • Star Wars: Union
  • Junior Jedi Knights (series)
  • Young Jedi Knights (series)
  • The New Jedi Order (series)

My personal universe ends with the NJO series. Everything set after The Unifying Force is, in my opinion, extremely depressing and unnecessary. Personally, I am of the opinion that after Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side, Padmé’s death and Anakin Solo’s death the Skywalker family deserves a happy aftermath, without other family members falling to the Dark Side and without other family tragedies. Furthermore, since I firmly believe that the Chosen One Prophecy is true, I cannot tolerate the Sith Order being brought back to life. Anakin Skywalker was the Chosen One, destined to destroy the Sith forever and bring balance to the Force. Period. So the Sith don’t rise from the ashes. Never again. Vader and Sidious were the pinnacle, and that’s it.

I completely exclude TCW from my personal Canon. It’s a great show on its own, but I can’t take it seriously in the context of the Prequel Trilogy. It feels too different and too disconnected from the Prequels for me. I can’t watch Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith knowing that, theoretically, between the two films Anakin has an apprentice and that Maul comes back from the dead. I’m sorry, but I really can’t, It doesn’t work for me. Moreover, Anakin’s characterization in TCW is so different from what we see in the Prequels, to the point that they don’t even look like the same character. In my head, TCW is basically propaganda and myths about the Clone Wars Era, to some extent based on reality, level of Canon depending on what I want. Some episodes are like The Longest Day (basically retelling history as best they know how), others are like Captain America: The First Avenger (complete fiction that just happens to be set during a historic war). In that last category are Mortis, the clones being biologically programed for Order 66, and Darth Maul coming back from the dead.

And that’s pretty much everything.

Since I changed my mind about a couple of things, I decided to update this list.
I changed my mind about the Chosen One Prophecy. I still don’t like the idea of other Skywalkers falling to the Dark Side and I still ignore Dark Nest, Legacy of the Force, Fate of the Jedi and Crucible, but I decided to start taking into account the Legacy comics, as I don’t mind the existence of other Sith after Return of the Jedi anymore, as long as these Sith are not part of the Skywalker family. However, since I don’t like the second volume of the Legacy comics, then I want to take into account the first volume only and pretend that everything ends with Darth Krayt’s death on Coruscant. So, after the New Jedi Order series there are more than 100 years of peace in which everyone lives happily and the Galaxy has time to recover from the Vong War, then the Sith-Imperial War happens, and then everything ends with the end of Legacy Volume 1. Furthermore, I don’t mind the idea of Palpatine’s resurrection anymore. So, in addition to the first volume of the Legacy comics I decided to add the first Dark Empire comic as well, placing it between the Thrawn Trilogy and the Jedi Academy Trilogy. However, since I don’t like Dark Empire II and III, then I want to take into account the first comic only, which by the way is self-contained and should never have been turned into a trilogy.

Post
#1503143
Topic
Revenge Of The Sith (novel) super fanedit
Time

You know what would be nice for you to do? An extended and updated version of the New Essential Chronology, in which you keep the Clone Wars Multimedia Project as the real version of the Clone Wars, but in which you include all the EU stories that were written from 2005 to 2012 (apart from TCW and related media, indeed), as well as every SWTOR expansion up until Knights of the Eternal Throne.

Post
#1503134
Topic
Anakin's Force Ghost
Time

BedeHistory731 said:

Darth Malgus said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Darth Malgus said:

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

I heard all the reasons about Hayden and the Redeeming nonsense created his ghost to become young again lol,
crap…

Shaw is a bad choice as well to be honest, since Anakin/Vader died at 45

Anakin/Vader only died at 45 after the prequels made him so young. Shaw was a perfectly fine choice in 1983.

Ghost Shaw worked well in 1983, but It doesn’t anymore. Personally, as I said in my previous post, I’m in favor of replacing the current 20-years old ghost Hayden with a version of Hayden himself that’s closer to his 40s.

Okay, but that doesn’t make it a “bad choice” that they cast Shaw, like you said. You can’t fault them for not having the clairvoyance during the production of RotJ to know that the prequels would contradict them two decades later. It’s not a flaw of the OOT and it’s not something that needed to be fixed.

Yes, but we’re no longer in 1983. Like it or not, there are other films now, and we must see things in a more united context.

Which is why I don’t agree with this attitude toward the OT. The OT came first. The OT portrayed Anakin as being old. The PT contradicted that. It’s not the OT’s fault and it shouldn’t be a good thing to “fix” the OT to fit in with the prequels, the prequels should have fit in with the OT themselves.

I mean, I know that this can annoy many people (especially the cultists of the original theatrical cut), but I am absolutely in favour of “fixing” the OT if this fixing results in a more united and cohesive story and narrows the small contradictions between the movies, again, regardless of who is to blame for these contradictions.

Then why are you posting on the site dedicated to the preservation of the theatrical cuts? Are you like Stardust and other Lucas “cultists” (given that you’re open to using that word) who want to see the OOT buried forever?

Nope. I’m in favour of restoring the OOT for a matter of historical preservation. I don’t hate the Special Editions, on the contrary, I would like other, more updated Special Editions of the OT to be made, but at the same time I would like the OOT to be restored for its historical value.

Y’know, we are of the same mind on this. But I’d SE the PT also.

Me too, actually

Post
#1503129
Topic
Anakin's Force Ghost
Time

BedeHistory731 said:

Darth Malgus said:

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

I heard all the reasons about Hayden and the Redeeming nonsense created his ghost to become young again lol,
crap…

Shaw is a bad choice as well to be honest, since Anakin/Vader died at 45

Anakin/Vader only died at 45 after the prequels made him so young. Shaw was a perfectly fine choice in 1983.

Ghost Shaw worked well in 1983, but It doesn’t anymore. Personally, as I said in my previous post, I’m in favor of replacing the current 20-years old ghost Hayden with a version of Hayden himself that’s closer to his 40s.

Okay, but that doesn’t make it a “bad choice” that they cast Shaw, like you said. You can’t fault them for not having the clairvoyance during the production of RotJ to know that the prequels would contradict them two decades later. It’s not a flaw of the OOT and it’s not something that needed to be fixed.

Yes, but we’re no longer in 1983. Like it or not, there are other films now, and we must see things in a more united context.

Which is why I don’t agree with this attitude toward the OT. The OT came first. The OT portrayed Anakin as being old. The PT contradicted that. It’s not the OT’s fault and it shouldn’t be a good thing to “fix” the OT to fit in with the prequels, the prequels should have fit in with the OT themselves.

I mean, I know that this can annoy many people (especially the cultists of the original theatrical cut), but I am absolutely in favour of “fixing” the OT if this fixing results in a more united and cohesive story and narrows the small contradictions between the movies, again, regardless of who is to blame for these contradictions.

Then why are you posting on the site dedicated to the preservation of the theatrical cuts? Are you like Stardust and other Lucas “cultists” (given that you’re open to using that word) who want to see the OOT buried forever?

Nope. I’m in favour of restoring the OOT for a matter of historical preservation. I don’t hate the Special Editions, on the contrary, I would like other, more updated Special Editions of the OT to be made, but at the same time I would like the OOT to be restored for its historical value.

Post
#1503128
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Yes, George Lucas agrees with the Prequel Jedi about the non-attachment doctrine, and yes, the Jedi should be theoretically the good guys, while Anakin should be the one who did wrong by falling in love and feeling emotions. However, despite this being Lucas’ opinion and despite the Prequel Trilogy should theoretically convey a message favorable to the non-attachment doctrine, there are still many people (myself included) who watch the Prequels through a more pro-attachment interpretation, drawing from them the conclusion that were the Jedi rules in being wrong and that Anakin Is more a victim than a real monster. So, Lucas was capable enough to make 3 good films, but at the same time incapable enough to not being able to correctly convey the message he wanted to convey, so much so that most people interpret the Prequels in the opposite way he does. Therefore, I can only be grateful to George for his inability, because if he had managed to correctly convey the message he wanted to convey, then I would have hated the Prequels. George’s inability is what keeps me from hating them.

Moreover, most of the Star Wars authors Who worked on the Expanded Universe always disagreed with George on this topic. In fact, in the EU Luke abolishes the old Jedi rules on attachment after rebuilding the Order and allows the Jedi to fall in love and have families, teaching them to express their negative emotions in a non damaging and controlled way, instead of treating them like a disease that needs to be avoided at all cost. So, George was so wrong that even the authors who wrote novels set in his own universe openly contradicted him. Therefore, I thank not only George’s own inability, but also the EU authors who saved Star Wars from George’s shitty ideas about attachment.

Post
#1502987
Topic
Anakin's Force Ghost
Time

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

I heard all the reasons about Hayden and the Redeeming nonsense created his ghost to become young again lol,
crap…

Shaw is a bad choice as well to be honest, since Anakin/Vader died at 45

Anakin/Vader only died at 45 after the prequels made him so young. Shaw was a perfectly fine choice in 1983.

Ghost Shaw worked well in 1983, but It doesn’t anymore. Personally, as I said in my previous post, I’m in favor of replacing the current 20-years old ghost Hayden with a version of Hayden himself that’s closer to his 40s.

Okay, but that doesn’t make it a “bad choice” that they cast Shaw, like you said. You can’t fault them for not having the clairvoyance during the production of RotJ to know that the prequels would contradict them two decades later. It’s not a flaw of the OOT and it’s not something that needed to be fixed.

Yes, but we’re no longer in 1983. Like it or not, there are other films now, and we must see things in a more united context.

Which is why I don’t agree with this attitude toward the OT. The OT came first. The OT portrayed Anakin as being old. The PT contradicted that. It’s not the OT’s fault and it shouldn’t be a good thing to “fix” the OT to fit in with the prequels, the prequels should have fit in with the OT themselves.

I didn’t say they were wrong in casting Shaw in 1983, I simply said that, today, ghost Shaw no longer makes sense because of the existence of the Prequels. You can criticize the Prequels as much as you want for contradicting Anakin’s age in the OT, but honestly, seeing an 80-year-old man being the father of a 20-year-old boy always seemed weird to me anyway, so it’s not like if the OT hasn’t made any “mistakes” about it. We can criticize the Prequels all we want, but regardless of who is to blame, today ghost Shaw no longer works and we all have to try to look at things in a more united context. I mean, I know that this can annoy many people (especially the cultists of the original theatrical cut), but I am absolutely in favour of “fixing” the OT if this fixing results in a more united and cohesive story and narrows the small contradictions between the movies, again, regardless of who is to blame for these contradictions. Moreover, it’s not like if changing Anakin’s age resulted in a drastical change of the plot of ROTJ, in fact, it changes absolutely nothing.

Post
#1502798
Topic
You're Disney, what do you do with Star Wars?
Time

I think it might be simpler to just do it the way the Star Trek EU does and let people choose to integrate or not integrate whichever canon they want.

Well, no. Unlike most of you, I’m a person who actually cares about continuity. I would like Star Wars to be a multimedia project, a single universe made up of multiple media that’s basically consistent with itself and between the various stories, as much as possible. I’m absolutely in favour of the existence of and official continuity, I think it’s necessary. This doesn’t prevent the individual fans to create their own personal Canon, and in fact I am the first to do so. But I think the existence of a stable and consistent official continuity is important.

Post
#1502695
Topic
You're Disney, what do you do with Star Wars?
Time

What would I have done if I had bought Star Wars in 2012? Well, to understand it, you first need to understand how the Canon of the time was structured. Before the decanonization of the EU there was a very precise Canon hierarchical system in place, which included five levels:

  • G Canon: The Prequel Trilogy and the Original Trilogy
  • T Canon: The Clone Wars (2008)
  • C Canon: The majority of the EU
  • S Canon: The stories written in the 70s and 80s, before the Thrawn Trilogy
  • N Canon: The non-Canon stories, such as the Infinities comics, the satirical stuff, etc.

Anyone can see that this hierarchical system is very complicated, and that many people can get confused. So, if I had bought Star Wars in 2012 I would have kept the EU as Canon, but at the same time simplifying the hierarchical system by eliminating the S Canon and the T Canon tiers.

The stories that were part of the S Canon tier contradict the post-Thrawn Trilogy EU, so they were not considered entirely Canon, but only partially Canon. That is, the parts of those stories that didnt contradict the post-Thrawn Trilogy EU were considered Canon, while the parts that did contradict it weren’t taken into account. Now, since the S Canon stories were never considered entirely Canon to begin with, then keeping the S Canon tier is completely useless. So, if I had bought Star Wars in 2012 I would have simplifyed the Canon hierarchy by completely erasing the S Canon tier, and moving all the stories that were part of that tier into the N Canon (non-Canon) tier. Furthermore, I would have allowed TCW to have a satisfying ending to make the fans of the series happy. However, since TCW contradicts much of the pre-2008 established EU, then I would have eliminated the T Canon tier from the hierarchy, moving TCW and related media into the N Canon tier, thus allowing the Clone Wars Multimedia Project to retake its original place between AOTC and ROTS.

By doing all this, the Canon hierarchy would be much simpler, since it would only include the G Canon (the films), the C Canon (the EU) and the N Canon (the non-Canon stuff), and there would be much less confusion among the fans.

But my plans don’t end here. If I had bought Star Wars in 2012 I would not only have simplified the Canon hierarchy, but I would also have decanonized some works that before 2012 were considered part of the official Expanded Universe (that is, of the C Canon). Specifically, I would have moved the Dark Empire Trilogy, the Crimson Empire Trilogy, The Force Unleashed II, and the post-NJO novels from the C Canon to the N Canon. They are, in my opinion, works that doesn’t deserve to be part of the official continuity.

So, after fixing and simplifying the Canon hierarchy and decanonizing the stories that never deserved to be Canon in the first place, I would have started designing a film trilogy set during the Old Republic Era. However, to make sure that there are no continuity errors between the new trilogy and the KOTOR/SWTOR stuff, I would have made sure that the new trilogy followed secondary and marginal characters, characters that are involved in the galactic wars of the past, but at the same time aren’t related to the main characters of that Era (like Revan, Bastila, Vitiate, Malgus, etc). I mean, the galactic wars against the Sith were galactic conflicts, indeed, and the Galaxy is huge, so we wouldn’t have had any problem in creating a good Old Republic Trilogy without contradicting the already established stuff. And, of course, in addition to the Old Republic Trilogy, I would also have allowed the EU to continue to expand, allowing authors to write new stories set across all the Eras, and most importantly, making sure that the post-NJO period is completely rewritten, without other Skywalkers falling to the Dark Side, without the return of the Sith, but with new enemies and original conflicts. I mean, Darth Vader and Darth Sidious were the last of the Sith. The authors would have had to adapt to this reality and invent new, non-Sith enemies after the NJO, instead of retake an already extinct threat.

Finally, I would have placed Leland Chee and Howard Roffman in charge of Lucasfilm, to make sure that everything remained as consistent as possible and that the universe and individual works had as few contradictions as possible.

However, if I bought Star Wars today then I would apply a double Canon system. That is, the New Canon would continue to exist and I would allow it to continue to expand according to the already existing projects, but at the same time I would also continue to expand the Old Canon (Legends), applying to it what I have just listed for my 2012 plans.

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#1501805
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Anakin's Force Ghost
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SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

I heard all the reasons about Hayden and the Redeeming nonsense created his ghost to become young again lol,
crap…

Shaw is a bad choice as well to be honest, since Anakin/Vader died at 45

Anakin/Vader only died at 45 after the prequels made him so young. Shaw was a perfectly fine choice in 1983.

Yes, but we’re no longer in 1983. Like it or not, there are other films now, and we must see things in a more united context. Ghost Shaw worked well in 1983, but It doesn’t anymore. Personally, as I said in my previous post, I’m in favor of replacing the current 20-years old ghost Hayden with a version of Hayden himself that’s closer to his 40s.

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#1498197
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Episode II: The Approaching Storm - The Purist Cut
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Mario said:

No idea what is different to Hal’s edit, but I’m interested. Can I get the link please? 😏

PM sent!
The biggest difference between this edit and Hal’s edit is the love story. In Hal’s edit the Naboo kiss scene replaces the fireplace scene in which both confess their feelings. But, on the other Hand, I replaced the Naboo kiss with the deleted scene where they dine together with Padmé’s family, left the fireplace scene and turned the Geonosis kiss into their first kiss. In addition, I put back in the film many scenes deleted by Hal in his version, such as the scene with Yoda and the younglings, or the scene where Obi-Wan, Mace and Yoda discuss about Anakin while walking in the Temple.

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#1498192
Topic
Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
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the Jedi, rather than teach how to have good relationships, just said not to have any.

Exactly, and that’s the main problem I have with the Prequel Jedi.

Being totally selfless is impossible. Love always requires a certain degree of possessiveness. If I love someone, I want to be with that person not only because I like him/her as a person, but also because the presence of that person makes me happy and makes me feel good. If the presence of that person didn’t make me feel good, then there would be no reason for me to engage in a romantic relationship with that person in the first place. In love, you have to give and receive. You give your love in the hope that your love will be reciprocated and that the exchange of that love will make you happy. A stoic love without attachment is simply not true love, but a generic feeling of relative interest. Like it or not, attachment is an absolutely natural thing that is part of human psychology. We are all attached to someone. It’s not right to kill someone to save a person we love, but at the same time it’s absolutely right to worry about those we love and wish they are well. If we find out that someone we love is in danger of life, then it’s right to try to save him/her. Not just because we want that person to be good, but also because that person makes us feel good. In life one cannot be either entirely selfless or completely selfish. You need a balance, and that’s what neither the Jedi nor the Sith (as well as George Lucas himself) have ever understood. Being concerned and afraid for the people we love is absolutely natural, we just have to learn not to let these fears dominate us and cloud our judgment. Expressing all emotions, even negative ones, is absolutely right, and that’s what the Jedi should have taught. Not teaching that attachment is something that should be avoided at all cost, but understanding that it’s natural, understanding that the negative emotions that arise from it are absolutely natural, and therefore learning to control them and not letting them dominate one’s judgment, basing on the personal situation and personal needs of every single individual.

I’m sorry, but “Be happy for those who turn into the Force” is not a balanced and human teaching, not at all. On the contrary, “Protect the ones you love, do everything you can to make them feel good, but if in the end you don’t succeed, then, only then, you have to learn to let go”, this is a deep, human and healthy teaching. But what did the Jedi do instead? To avoid the Dark Side at all cost, they simply preferred to bypass the problem. Instead of studying and understanding the personal situation and needs of each individual, and instead of teaching how to express your attachment towards others in a balanced and controlled way, they acted in an extremist way by eliminating the possibility of having any attachment. Instead of teaching to have good relationships, they simply forbade having relationships in the first place, teaching to repress any negative feelings. And what has this led to? It led Anakin to be immersed between two opposite extremes: pure passion and pure stoicism. They taught him to repress every negative feeling, leaving him unprepared for tragedies. And guess what, when people are unprepared to deal with a tragedy then, when a tragedy happens to them, they offen react violently. No wonder Anakin went completely crazy and turned to the Dark Side. They didn’t teach him to deal with his negative feelings in a human and healthy way, they let him be manipulated by Palpatine who fed his negative feelings by gradually teaching him to deal with them in the wrong way, and as a result the Galaxy has been completely fucked up.

That’s why I love the New Jedi Order created by Luke in Legends. It corrected the errors of the Old Order, understood what the problem of the old dogma was and solved it in the best possible way, that is, by teaching the Jedi how to have good relationships, indeed. George’s view of avoiding attachment at all costs is extremist, not rational and psychologically damaging, and I can’t believe there are people who unironically agree with him on this.

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#1497880
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Episode II: The Approaching Storm - The Purist Cut
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Star Wars Episode II: The Approaching Storm - The Purist Cut

Some time ago, I opened a thread to ask someone for help in creating my personal fan edit of Attack of the Clones. In that thread, Hal 9000 came forward and he helped me. Now that the fan edit is definitely finished, I decided to open a new thread, so the goal of my edit and the changes can be more clear to everyone.

My fan edit is essentially a purist version of Hal’s The Approaching Storm. I used Hal’s edit as base for my edit, however many of the scenes deleted by Hal in his edit have been put back in the movie, to make this edit as similar as possible to the original version, and also because I don’t really have many problems with the original version itself. This edit was meant to be a stand alone edit, which works in the context of the other two Prequel films. It’s not part of a trilogy, but is meant to be a valuable replacement for the original version. So, if you like The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith as they are, but at the same time you have some issues with Attack of the Clones, this edit could be what you’re looking for.

The major changes are:

  1. In contrast to many other edits of the film, in this version Anakin remains an annoying, rebellious and impulsive teenager. However, his impulsiveness and rebellious behavior increase in intensity as the film progresses. In contrast to the original version, Anakin seems to be more mature at first, but turns out to be the Anakin we already know gradually, as the film goes on. In the opening scenes, he seems to be calm, slightly rebellious but still calm, while in the Battle of Geonosis he shows all his impulsiveness.
  2. The love story is pretty much the same as the original, but I decided to eliminate the first kiss on Naboo, and I put the deleted scenes with Padmé’s family in place of it, turning their kiss on Geonosis in their first kiss. This way, the original intentions of George Lucas are preserved, but at the same time the love story becomes slower and more gradual. Anakin and Padmé now experience their growing feelings for each other, until they confess their mutual feelings in front of the fireplace and eventually kiss on Geonosis, eliminating the hasty kiss on Naboo that actually never made any sense.
  3. In this version the scene in which Anakin confesses to Padmé his massacre of the Tusken has been deleted. The reason I did it is very simple: that scene doesn’t align with Padmé’s character and with what we see of her in the other two Prequel films. Padmé would have never accepted that Anakin commit a massacre, no matter how madly in love with him she could have been. Her reaction in that scene doesn’t make any sense. In fact, in Revenge of the Sith Padmé is shocked and distraught when Obi-Wan tells her that Anakin has killed men, women and children in the Jedi Temple. That reaction aligns better with a Padmé who knows nothing about what Anakin did to the Tusken, rather than with a Padmé who, despite the massacre and despite knowing what Anakin was capable of, still decides to marry him. So, in this version the massacre still happens, but Anakin never confessed it to Padmé.
  4. The fight between Yoda and Dooku has been deleted. Not because I don’t like it (I love that scene actually), but simply to give more importance to the fight between Yoda and Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith, since in this way it becomes the only time we see Yoda using a lightsaber in all the films.

These are the major changes, the rest are small, quite irrelevant changes. If you are interested, PM me for the link.