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Darth Editous

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23-Mar-2005
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5-Apr-2024
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Post
#98906
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98906/action/topic#98906
Time
I watched through my "beta" edit this weekend, and found a few more things to fix!

    There's a jump cut as the droids cross a corridor in the bloackade runner, when a Stormtrooper shoots the wall near their exit (all the Stormtroopers jump to new positions). The first time around I considered it too difficult to fix, but I've managed it without having to cut any frames or reorder anything.

    When the Jawa puts the restraining bolt on R2, one shot showed it too high up on R2's panels.

    I redid the removal of C3PO's wire as he stands in line in front of Owen.

    I redid the replacement of Owen's lines, "What are you trying to push on us/Yeah?/What about that one? We'll take that blue one." Using SE sound didn't quite work because the SE clip has too much ambient noise. Instead I used a graphic equalizer to make the DVD lines match the rest of the dialogue.

    Removed some remnants of the "There's no-one here!" line in the left and right channels as the Stormtroopers exit the Falcon.

    Just before the trash compactor walls start moving, there's a cut from Luke to Leia. On that cut, the ambient noise almost completely disappears. I've put it back in until the sound of the walls drowns it out.

    After Luke says "What good will it do us if he gets himself killed?", he and Leia run off down the corridor. Listen closely and it sounds like Luke spits! Ptooee! I've cut that sound.

    When Luke first spots Ben and Vader duelling, the next shot of Ben and Vader shows them both with uncoloured sabres, and Ben with his sabre raised (as he does before he gets struck down). I've painted in Vader's sabre and moved Ben's sabre to match what we see in the next shot.

    Just before the last shot circle wipes to the credits, Leia's hands move up and then almost immediately freeze along with the rest of the picture. I've kept them still through the wipe.


There's still a slightly dodgy edit in the soundtrack at about 2 minutes into the credits, but I'm not sure I can do much about it and it's barely noticeable.

If you think you've spotted something I've missed, please let me know!

David
Post
#98294
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98294/action/topic#98294
Time
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Were you able to record the AC3 soundtrack as AC3 in that manner, or was it converted to PCM in the process?


Happily I can record the AC3 stream. I had to buy a separate AC3 decoder off Ebay, originally expecting that I'd be recording six separate analogue channels - but then I found I could convert the RF digital output of my LD player to SPDIF, and use my SPDIF USB box to pass bits straight through to the recording program. I remember making the first recording, then playing it back out through the box and watching my amp display "Dolby Digital 3/2"! Although my laptop has a SPDIF-out of it's own, I couldn't just play it out through that because of all the conversion and addition of other audio sources that ruin the stream.

What you end up with is an audio recording which looks like short bursts of white noise followed by longer runs of silence. If the recording was good, I was able to use a bit of PowerBasic (these days I use C) to put all the AC3 packets together, resulting in an AC3 file that I could decode.

David
Post
#98264
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98264/action/topic#98264
Time
One question: what is your audio source?


The DVD. My secondary source for when the sound quality gets too low is the SE LD. Actually there are still a couple of lines I'd like to replace, although it's quite a tedious process. Hooking up the LD and RF decoder, recording the AC3 via a SPDIF-USB box, decoding it (assuming the recording was good - occassionally it loses data. When I did my SE LD edit, two out of three recordings of the AC3 data were broken in at least one place), and pasting it into place. Besides I expect there'll be yet another "this is the only one" edition in a few years which will hopefully have better audio.

On the video side of things, I did consider trying to use a GOP editor but decided it wasn't worth the trouble.

ADM, PM or email me if you'd like some help making a crawl or doing some soft wipes.

David
Post
#98225
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98225/action/topic#98225
Time
Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
Editous, since you seem to do a wonderful job with the painting and masking of film any chance of taking a crack at the scenes found in the bonus material on the DVDs? The ones I mean particularly are the 'If my blade should find it's mark' with Obi-Wan and the "And you call yourselves human" scene with Tarkin and Leia. I only bring this up because you seem to have corrected similar scenes that were actually in the film.


I have to be honest... I've never even looked at any of the extras! What needs doing to them, and are they of matching quality to the actual film?

David
Post
#98210
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98210/action/topic#98210
Time
Originally posted by: Hal 9000
Did you do anything about the new "siren" sound effect Obi Wan makes to scare off the sand people?


Nope. Again, I didn't find it a big problem, although it would have been an easy thing to fix.

I was slightly taken aback when I first heard it, but I can live with it. It sounds more organic, more like a sound a human could make, and a lot less like a Dewback.

David
Post
#98165
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98165/action/topic#98165
Time
Can you show us a few shots of stuff you've painted out/on? Like the green R5?

This was a simple change of hue:

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/82/13/green.jpg

What have you replaced the shot of the rearing ronto with?

Nothing, it's just completely gone. I was quite lucky with the music there, and it splices together without sounding too weird at all.

Have you painted out the probe droids?


Nah, I kept those in, except for the one that gets knocked down as the speeder enters Mos Eisley. I didn't find it to be too bad a change.

How have you compensated for the missing frames when removing Jabba?


Do you mean the frames that were in the mix in and out of the Jabba scene? For in the inwipe, I slowed down the footage of the guy approaching the camera, which serendipitously makes him look rather sinister. The outwipe is circular, so some of the frames could be reconstructed using cut and paste from later frames. Where that wasn't possible, I had to manual move elements from later frames, particular R2 and the piggy guy who's coming around the corner in the background.

The position of the mix doesn't quite match the OT, but the total number of frames in the two shots does.

I wouldn't mind him in as long as the Greedo scene was altered to use its original lines.


I didn't know it had original lines! I assume Han's were different too which would make it pretty tricky. Even then, I don't really like the Jabba scene, particularly Boba Fett practically winking at the audience at the end! "Hey, it's me!"

David
Post
#98151
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98151/action/topic#98151
Time
I'll ask Jay about creating a new thread, once the edit is out there.

(you didn't misuse anyone's Avid system for your edits, did you? )


Actually I used VirtualDub. There are several Avid suites where I work, but I've never used them for anything. Where I needed to recreate wipes or overlay "patches" onto scenes, or slow down footage, I used C.

If anyone's interested in the technical details... for most image alignment purposes (such as replacing the attack clock but keeping it aligned to the slightly moving background) I would blow up a small section of the background to 800% with VirtualDub (Lanczos3 resize). Then in C I'd use the image sequence to calculate the alignment to 1/8th of a pixel. Most rotation/translation was done using Sinc interpolation (which apparently is the theoretical optimum) with a window of 36 pixels. For the last few fixes, when I started making my library of functions, I changed to Spline16 because it's not noticeably worse than Sinc, and has a window of just 16 pixels.

Morphs were done with [url=http://www.debugmode.com/winmorph/]WinMorph[/url].

David
Post
#98117
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98117/action/topic#98117
Time
Originally posted by: Hal 9000
There's a few times where I think you'd have to include non-DVD footage, and they're all in ROTJ.

The Jabba musical number, the sarlacc, Sebastian's eyebrows, and the ghosting.

Yeah, I haven't really thought what I'd do with ROTJ yet. Certainly the Jabba musical number has to go, but I hope I can just chop around it without having to resort to lower quality footage. I was going to leave the Sarlacc alone - the only part I have a problem with is when that guy falls in and supposedly gets snapped up by the beak, yet he doesn't seem to slow down at all. The eyebrows are a good change! The ghost also has to be replaced. I may vidcap it multiple times on different equipment to reduce noise - I had some slight success on a test I ran on the stars at the beginning of ANH.

And believe me, the described ANH is AMAZING. Wow, that'd be great to have sitting on my desk.
The ultimate Special Edition, the way it should have been the first time.


I did toy with calling it "The Ultimate Edition" but that would be a bit big-headed of me

I've got a couple of things in mind for ESB - cutting out Vader's new lines, because it doesn't sound like James Earl-Jones, even though they say it's him, and replacing Luke's "You were lucky to get out of there," with "You're lucky you don't taste so good," from the SE. Thankfully Lucas already removed Luke's scream

David
Post
#98083
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98083/action/topic#98083
Time
Originally posted by: ReverendBeastly
Authoring an NTSC version might be a decent idea for those without any other way around it. I know a few of us here, though, have players that play PAL stuff back with no problem


Shouldn't be too difficult to make an NTSC one

Here's another image for you to peruse - one of my more complicated edits - can you see what's missing?

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/81/17/moseisley.jpg

David
Post
#98080
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98080/action/topic#98080
Time
Checked your PM's recently?


I have now As I said it's not quite ready to go on to a DVD yet (though I have made a beta copy to check my chapter stops and such).

By the way, I should have mentioned it's mastered from the Region 2 PAL DVD. I'll think about making an NTSC DVD but my final burn will always be PAL, which those of you in the US would probably have to watch on a PC. It won't be region coded of course

David
Post
#98074
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98074/action/topic#98074
Time
You know what, I was thinking of the shot when Red Leader hits the DS, but it just occured to me that your clip isn't from that scene.


That is what my X-Wing GIF is of. The X-Wing itself was taken from a shot of three X-Wings over the surface of the DS, scaled down, motion blurred, rotated slightly in each frame, and given a shadow and possibly (I can't remember) a colour overlay to match the existing footage.

David
Post
#98071
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98071/action/topic#98071
Time
Nice touch. I'd like to see that clip, to see if you were able to retain the motion blur. (Just a minor quibble. If I recall correctly, that's a very fast passing scene to begin with, so it may not matter.)

Which clip do you mean? I did post a gif of the inserted X-Wing, and yes, I did add motion blur, and a shadow

So then this is an added CG shot?


Not really. I just created an overlay of the two poles and pasted them on top.

You mean, before he talks to Leia?!? BOO, HISS


I think it's after, but I'm afraid I couldn't find any way to keep it in And such a lovely shot, too.

David
Post
#98065
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98065/action/topic#98065
Time
Originally posted by: ChainsawAsh
Wow. Just...wow.

There are some that I'm a little worried about, as I don't know what kind of qualifications or experience you have,

Qualifications? None! Experience? Not much of that either, just dabbling. I did actually create my own edit from the SE LDs a couple of years ago, but shortly after I finished it they announced the DVDs. I did a lot more work on the DVD version, because most of my time on the LD version was spent painting out glitches and dirt - I estimate I edited at least 10% of the frames.

I'd personally like a couple screenshots of some of the paint-outs and the added X-Wing at the end.

Can you pick a paint-out? Here's the X-Wing:

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/81/16/xwing.gif

Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
What source did you use for the Alderaan shot?

A later shot of Alderaan. I had to scale it up a little and add black out the nightside to match the original shading. If it hadn't done that, it would have been extremely difficult to mask around the officer as he stepped in front of the planet.

What about the creature that walks in front of the frame while Ben and Luke drive up to the troopers. Did you put the robot back?


No. Part of my philosophy was only to use data from the DVD, or in some cases brand new CGI (by which I'm referring to the Death Star schematic and the clock - nothing more complex than that). Unfortunately I'll have to go back on that philosophy when I redo ROTJ and reinsert Sebastian Shaw.

"17. In the same scene, a ship in the background flys in front of two poles, which makes it appear to be tiny. I've moved it behind the poles."

LOL...which frame is this?


Here's a closeup. It's as the speeder passes behind the Ronto and pulls up by the Canteen. A goof here is that shadows of speeder and Ronto intersect which is impossible - and also nearly impossible to fix, so I didn't try.

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/81/16/ship.jpg

"20. The single frame of Greedo before he fries is no longer a poor dummy."

What did you replace it with?


Just an earlier frame of Greedo. I may have shifted it over slightly to match the dummy's position.

I'm sure I'll have more questions later. I'm just spot-checking your list for now.


Ask away

David
Post
#98058
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98058/action/topic#98058
Time
Are you willing to have it shared or is it just a personal cut for your eyes only?


I've already got people at work hankering for copies. I don't mind sending out a few "review" copies - feel free to PM me your address - but depending on the demand I might ask that people send me a blank DVD-R.

I forgot (at least) one change in my list up there. The Ronto that throws it's Jawa riders is completely cut.

Here's a screenshot of one of my favourite fixes:

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/81/15/alderaan.jpg

Any other screenshot requests?

David
Post
#98046
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98046/action/topic#98046
Time
Okay ADM, here's what I've done

Taking the 2004 DVD as my source, I have made the following changes, the bold ones being the ones I consider more important:

1. Fixed the goof where R2's arm opens the pod door, but disappears in the next shot.
2. Smoothed a jump cut as R2 starts rolling away from Leia towards 3PO.
3. Painted out the flap of white material behind a wall when the Stormtrooper shoots Leia.
4. When 3PO and R2 are in the pod, the Star Destroyer recedes into the background. Unfortunately so do the stars, which is not what they should see. I've replaced the stars with non-receeding ones.
5. Vader takess a very pantomimish stance when Leia is brought to him - I've cut that out.
6. When 3PO stands up the Sandcrawler, his eyes blink off for half second. I've fixed that.
7. I've cut the SE Tatooine stormtroopers, so this part is now almost identical to the OT (but the CGI Dewback is still there in the background, and I've shortened the preceeding shot of the Sandcrawler - I always felt it dragged on too long).
8. I've painted out a spurious wire that sprouts from 3PO's head while he waits in line to be bought.
9. I've painted the reappearing red R2 unit green to fix the continuity error.
10. I've replaced Owen's audio in this same scene with the same lines from the SE, because the audio quality was terrible on the DVD.
11. There's a bad cut in the music (it completely drops out for a fraction of a second) when we see the Sandpeople mounting their Bantha - fixed.
12. I've edited out the wall hanging/cloak thing behind Luke to fix a continuity error (but in a weird way - more on that later).
13. I've morphed Luke and Ben, and adjusted 3PO, so the jump cut is not so obvious when he turns on the lightsabre (the lightsabre also visibly extends).
14. I've painted out (but kept the shot) the humanoid droid smacking down the floating droid as the speeder enters Mos Eisley.
15. (This is a really geeky one) I've painted out a small stone that could be seen rolling across the ground for apparently no reason behind Ben, as he mind-tricks the Stormtroopers.
16. I've fixed a few frames as the speeder approaches the Cantina, where the shadows were not correctly painted.
17. In the same scene, a ship in the background flys in front of two poles, which makes it appear to be tiny. I've moved it behind the poles.
18. I've painted out Batboy's transparent eyes.
19. Han fires first!
20. The single frame of Greedo before he fries is no longer a poor dummy.
21. Jabba - you're cut! I've done my best to reconstruct the OT here, right down to matching the number of frames in the transition.
22. The sync on Ben's line ("If the ship's as fast as he's boasting...") was out by 600ms (15 frames).
23. I've painted in the radar dish on the Falcon as it sits in docking bay 94 (just before "What a piece of junk!").
24. I've painted out the guy in a green shirt behind Han, in the first shot of Han in the cockpit after they take off.
25. Before Leia is brought to Tarkin, there's a shot of him and another officer standing in front of a poorly projected picture of Alderaan. I've replaced the projection with a shot of Alderaan from later, replicating the original shading and size.
26. The stars behind the Death Star jump (as if a few frames were cut) as the Death Star fires - I fixed that.
27. Just after Alderaan bites the big one, Luke's lightsabre is green! Now it's blue - and I've shortened it because at one point the tip remains completely out of frame, causing it to appear far too long.
28. I've used reversed footage to fix a horrendous jump cut when Luke turns off the lightsabre.
29. I've used a morph to fix a bad jump cut when Luke ignites the sabre while wearing the helmet.
30. When the Falcon enters the DS docking bay, I've fixed the gap in the glow from the docking bay light.
31. Some of the stars behind Vader, as he walks to the Falcon, show through his helmet.
32. I've cut the DVD-addition line "There's no-one here." as the Stormtroopers leave the Falcon. The alternative was making the second Stormtrooper reply, "Duh!"
33. Using morphs and pastes, I've fixed a few jump cuts and wobbling doors in the docking bay control room.
34. While our heroes wait for an elevator, a guy goes by first in a light shirt, then in a dark shirt. Now he just wears a dark shirt.
35. I've painted out a stray hair on Leia's forehead which disappears too quickly during a cut-away.
36. The line "I had it all under control until you led us down here!" was of particularly bad quality, so I've replaced it with the same line from the SE LD.
37. The sound of the Stormtrooper hitting his head is so loud it sounds like a comedy sound effect. I've turned it down substantially, but not removed it completely.
38. Before the cut-away to Leia ("No wait, they'll here!"), Han's gun emits a puff of smoke even though he hasn't fired it yet (painted out).
39. A morph fixes a jump cut when Leia shuts the door on the approaching Stormtroopers, leaving her and Luke trapped on the unextended bridge. There was also a visible squib on the door, which I've painted out.
40. On the DVD, they made a half-hearted effort (a single frame morph) to fix the jump cut when Ben ignites his lightsabre. I've made this a lot smoother.
41. On the DVD, they claimed to have fixed Ben's unpainted lightsabre (just before we cut to our heroes getting to the docking bay). All they did was add the glow, but they forgot to paint the white core.
42. In various shots, I've painted out the power cable that led from Ben's sleeve to his lightsabre.
43. When Ben gets cut down, I've added in his face so it looks less like an empty cloak.
44. I've painted Vader's sabre red in a few uncoloured scenes (when he's in the background behind the Stormtroopers).
45. When Han asks "You in kid?" Luke now replies "Yeah," before Han's "Okay, stay sharp." I did my best Mark Hamill impression for that one.
46. The Falcon shudders as the TIEs pass, but the shake effect on Han and Luke is entirely horizontal and shows no motion blur. I've added rotational and translational movement, and some motion blur.
47. As the TIE makes it's first attack, the glow from the Falcon's engine has a gap in it (from the model's support?) and it flickers. I've smoothed it and filled in the gap.
48. There's a shot of R2 and 3PO in the curved seat on the Falcon. Look closely behind Artoo - for a few frames at the end, a head (probably Luke) appears. I've painted it out.
49. In five or six shots, I've removed the matte boxes from around the TIEs. One shot was particularly awful.
50. I've desaturated a green-tinted TIE fighter that passes in front of Han, and a blue-tinted TIE fighter that passes in front of Luke.
51. I've reframed one shot of a TIE approaching the camera which had no stars on the right 1/5th (or so) of the frame.
52. I've painted out parts of the motion control rig on the falcon that are briefly visible as the Falcon makes it's final descent towards Yavin IV.
53. I've painted out a tool that a technician knocks off a bench as they take care of R2.
54. I've fixed the Death Star schematic that appears on the monitor and in the briefing. The weapon bowl should appear above the equatorial trench, not on it.
55. The whole Biggs scene is gone. I never really liked it, but the ILM guy walking in front to cover up R2's jump made it terrible. They could have done a better job of that, I'm sure. Unfortunately it means I've had to remove the shot of Luke walking under his X-Wing's wing (a different take was used in the OT).
56. In a couple of scenes, I've painted out some stray hairs that Tarkin forgot to comb out.
57. In a couple of cockpit shots, I've painted out a speck of white that appears on the screen (it doesn't move in a way consistent with a distant rebel ship).
58. I've added an X-Wing to the shot where Luke looks down to see Red Leader bite the dust. It always bugged me that there was an explosion with no visible cause.
59. I've reframed the shot of Luke looking back at R2 after he gets shot, because he clearly wasn't smoking as he was in the shots before and after.
60. The clock on the Death Star screen during the attack is now consistent with the announcements. One shot required colour correction to match all other shots of the clock.
61. I've copied the second of two identical shots of Vader spinning out of control over the first, because in the first shot, parts of the motion control rig were visible.
62. I've done my best to correct some bad blue screening, when Luke says "You can't do any more good back there!".
63. In two shots of ships pulling out of the trench, I've adjusted the contrast so that space appears properly black.
64. I've adjusted the colour of the stars in two trench shots, where black space appeared blue (probably not noticeable on a TV screen).
65. I've painted out a smudge on the camera, just after Ben is heard to say "Let go, Luke!"
66. I've painted out Vader's eye in one shot when it is particularly visible through his mask.
67. As our heroes make their way to get their awards, one rebel in the background raises his hand just before a cut - I've painted it out. Maybe he needed the bathroom.
68. Denis Lawson's name is now spelt correctly in the end credits.

Did I miss anything? Let me know if you'd like to see any particular screenshots. I've done a lot of work, as you can probably tell, and a lot of programming, particularly in the areas of subpixel object tracking and high quality image manipulation, to complete this edit to what I hope is a high standard.

David
Post
#98038
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/98038/action/topic#98038
Time
Hi everyone, first time poster...

This seemed to be the best thread to ask my question. I'm just finishing a re-edit of the ANH DVD - in the majority of cases this means "de-SEing" it, but I've done a lot (and I mean a LOT) more than that, and it's more of a personal cut than an effort to accurately recreate the OT. Is it okay to start an "Info and feedback" thread on it, or are those strictly reserved for edits using OT sources? In the forum rules it says:

The 1997 Special Editions are not to be discussed as possible backup material.


but I'm not clear on what that means and if it equally applies to the 2004 DVDs.

Thanks
David

PS Whoever asked if anyone could make a crawl - I can. I recreated the opening crawl some time ago and if I'm not being too immodest, you couldn't tell the difference if you didn't know.