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Darth Editous

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23-Mar-2005
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5-Apr-2024
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Post
#111805
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time
Not only that, but the Star Field changes.

That's partly to do with where I got the "original" frame from. It's actually from my retimed sequence, which used a static star plate. The original original sees the starfield change ever so slightly over time.

My retimed sequence, incidentally, was made to match the ESB pull back, not the OT ANH pull back, simply because it was easier to rip the ESB DVD than capture the OT ANH VHS. I made graphs of the logos' sizes over time and came up with a wacky formula to map one onto the other. Here's part of the C code, if anyone's interested:

m=1+sqrt(sin(PI*x*(1.0/290))); // first half
n=2.25-x*(1.0/290)*1.25;
nw=(sqrt(x*1.0/290)+(x*1.0/290))*0.5;
mw=1-nw;
k=mw*m+nw*n;
xt=(float)x/k;


DE
Post
#111617
Topic
PAL vs NTSC laserdiscs
Time
I suspect they actually hold the same amount of signal information, just distributed differently.


Might be getting a bit philosophical here, but is it still the same amount of information if we can't extract the same amount of information? Any system of measurement is going to get a more accurate reading from a CAV disc than a CLV disc because the SNR is lower, like the FAQ said - even if it's the best pressed laserdisc in the world and all the noise is coming from the player's circuitry.

Build a better laserdisc player and I think it would still get more "information" from a CAV than a CLV.

Edit: I've just remembered. When I made a DVD from my SE LDs, I did an experiment. I captured the same scene multiple times and averaged it, to see if I could reduce noise. It barely made any difference, which suggests to me that "noise" is mostly already encoded on the disc by the manufacturing process and its limitations. The slight difference I saw would have been from averaging out the lower noise introduced during reading.

DE
Post
#111576
Topic
PAL vs NTSC laserdiscs
Time
I don't believe the signal is different at all between CAV and CLV. LDs are not digital, so the concept of bitrate is a red herring.

I'd forgotten that LD doesn't store a digitised signal (I think it encodes by the [analogue] length of pits and bumps). But VHS tapes aren't digital either, and if you record in Long Play you get a noticeably worse picture. From a Laserdisc FAQ:

CAV also provides constantly improving signal-to-noise ratio as the program proceeds toward the outer edge, but this is typically not that noticeable on properly manufactured discs.


I'd question the second part, unless all the CLV+CAV discs I've ever had were improperly manufactured.

There's more technical stuff here: http://www.modeemi.fi/~leopold/AV/LdFaq/Introduction.html#MediumClvCavQuality

DE
Post
#111531
Topic
PAL vs NTSC laserdiscs
Time
In most of what I read, it says there's no quality difference between CAV & CLV and I believe in most cases that is probably true.


I always felt CAV looked a lot better. I seem to remember that blacks (i.e., the black bars around a widescreen movie) were much blacker with CAV, whereas CLV would introduce some blue speckling. I assume it's because CAV allows more bits (about double, in total, though it varies from the beginning to the end of a CAV side) for digitising the composite video signal.

DE
Post
#111525
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time
Mike, sorry if this has been addressed before but I only scanned the thread quickly.

On the site you mention that the STAR WARS logo recedes too quickly on the DVD - first of all, thanks for pointing that out because I would never have noticed it otherwise.

You replaced it with the receding logo from one of the foreign angles. Did it bother you that it doesn't seem to be from the same source? The lack of curve on the top of the ST, for example, and the sharpness of the curves... it bothered me enough to interpolate new frames rather than borrowing from another angle. I can post some screenshots later tonight but you probably already know what I mean.

Edit: this animted gif shows the difference between the two logos. The slightly larger one is the "original".

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/153/13/anim.gif

DE
Post
#111518
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Time
The letters are much thinner now, to match the PT. If you go to Mike's website, he shows what alot of us noticed, that the font isn't exactly the way it used to be.


Oh yeah...

Having had another quick look at Mike's site, it seems odd to me that he was attentive enough to redo the A Long Time ago back to the original, but was quite happy to use a foreign language angle for the STAR WARS recede. I say that because the foreign language ones aren't the same as the original. The original has a pronounced curve to the top of the ST, and other differences, whereas the foreign language ones look more digital. That's why I re-interpolated a new sequence based on the too-quick DVD one.

I'll post a screenshot later tonight to explain what I mean.

DE
Post
#111395
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Time
Edit: Screw what I said earlier. If you simply edit this between when Episode IV is completely on screen, but before any of A NEW HOPE appears on screen, then it's a great looking edit. Don't know how this option escaped me earlier but it did. I just tried it and it looks superior.


I can't see anything wrong on the disc you sent me, which I assume was your first edit.

I just watched the new Jabba's palace bit - wow! Where did you get the audio from?

DE
Post
#111074
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Time
Yes. But here is my problem. I've got the whole thing rotoscopped in Photoshoppe. Now I just need to figure out how to change the PSD to a FLM or filmstripe file (back to what it was) or how to convert it, ya dig?


I can tell you how to make it into an AVI, which you can probably do more with than a PSD:

Save each frame out of Photoshop as a Targa in a numbered sequence, starting at 000.tga. Then use VirtualDub - drag the 000.tga image on to a VirtualDub window and it will load the whole sequence. You can then save that out as an AVI.

VirtualDub was an invaluable tool to me while I made my edit.

DE
Post
#111056
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Time
It might also be worth noting that in general I tended to aim for the minimal fix - in this case, applying a hue layer, rather than repainting all the sabres. The sabre blade is not well aligned to the hilt in this scene, as Mark Hamill didn't have a prop blade - this is the sort of thing they really should have fixed for the Special Edition, let alone the DVD. But I guess it isn't as notable as Jawas falling off a Ronto

(and entails a lot more than Photoshopping one frame).


To be fair I did make myself some actions so each frame only took about two seconds

DE
Post
#111035
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Time
This shows the recoloured sabre, and the fact that I shortened it slightly to bring the end back into frame:

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/152/11/sabre.jpg

Looking at it now, it doesn't quite match a later shot from the same angle. But the sabre looks more like white in later closeups - I could have spent a long time making everything match precisely, but instead I went for the quick fix that stops that single shot jumping out at you.

DE
Post
#110970
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Time
Also, DE....I never asked. Did you restore the old school 20th Century Fox and LFL logos?

Nope. To replace the Fox logo I would have had to go to a lower quality source, like LD or VHS. I could have recreated the Lucasfilm logo pretty easily, but I like the new one better.

Post screenshots!


Here's one of my favourite fixes, because it came out so well:

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/81/15/alderaan.jpg

Here's the no-longer invisible X-Wing (this may not be the final version, I can't remember):

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/81/16/xwing.gif

Here's the spaceship that flies in front of the moisture vaporator:

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/81/16/ship.jpg

Play spot-what's-missing with this one:

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/81/17/moseisley.jpg

Here's Ben, now visible inside his cloak. He fades away as he gets sliced.

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/111/05/face.jpg

The corrected Death Star schematic:

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/111/08/schematic.jpg

The Falcon's dish added:

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/111/08/dish.jpg

Anything else anyone particularly wants to see?

David
Post
#110969
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Time
My PMs are full again and I can't be bothered to clean them, so...

Hardcore Legend, I haven't yet sent you a copy - I was going to do it next week. Copies will be going out this week to:

Brimley
Commander Courage
norinradd (UK)
Hal 9000
CobraGuy
ADigitalMan
Mattfitch (UK)
tellan (UK)

The following will probably get theirs next week:

ReverendBeastly
russs15
tellan
El Lono
Klingon_Jedi
Rebel11_38
MagnoliaFan
Hurin
Hardcore Legend

russs15, I'll be including PayPal details in a cover letter. dartheditous@hotmail.co.uk is (one of) my PayPal addresses.

Boomstick, PM me your address and I'll send you a copy next week.

Each DVD also has a JPG of the disc's label on it, but I didn't bother making new cover art because I'll be putting it inside the official DVD case.

David
Post
#110783
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Time
Rather than clear out PMs, so I can send more...

To anyone who'd like to request a copy, I already have quite a long waiting list, so at this time I can't really take any more addresses - sorry!

Because I'm in the UK, it gets pretty expensive to send discs out. I've included PayPal details for anyone who wants to reimburse me (postage and materials only of course), but it would be a cheaper option for everyone if some of my first US recipients could share it with other members. Would any of you (who've already sent me your address) be willing and able to do that?

I'll have to get to work on a Divx version to get out on file sharing...

DE
Post
#110774
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Time
I think he used the PAL version because the colors were closer to being correct, yes?

The main reason I used PAL is because I'm British, but also they have 1.2x the vertical resolution and a better colour space.

What is your feeling on us redistributing these edits? I mean, copying them and giving them to friends?


The way I see it, I don't really have any rights to this work - I mean it probably is, strictly speaking, a breach of copyright, but one that Lucasfilm has been extraordinarily nice about in the past. So once you've got a copy you're free to do as you wish with it (that's from my POV of course, not Lucasfilm's).

are there plans to do similar for ESB and RoTJ in the future?


There are, though again they will be my hybrid versions of the films. Most of the Bespin stuff will stay, but Boba Fett will get his voice back, along with Vader's original "Bring my shuttle" line and possibly some of the Emperor dialogue - I haven't watched it yet so I don't know how bad it is.

DE
Post
#110671
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Time
That being the Stormtrooper hitting his head. Just because it's a signature of the Star Wars franchise. So much so that Jango Fett hits his head in AOTC. But it certainly won't take away from all the other great work you have listed here.


Yeah, I knew that one wouldn't go down well with everyone... but hey, it was a goof until the SE, when they added a minor sound effect. And the sound effect they added to the DVD is just ridiculous.

DE
Post
#110635
Topic
***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Time

Version 4 (or is it 5?) or this edit is currently in progress, so go to the end of the thread for the latest news.


This thread is for the discussion of my edit of Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, following on from the discussion that started on page 12 of the Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD thread.

I started sending out discs today, so hopefully I can get some feedback soon.

Using the 2004 PAL DVD as source, the following changes were made (some go quite a way to restoring the original version of the film, some fix continuity and SFX errors, and some might be a bit controversial):

2007: For an updated list of changes in version 3, go to page 36.

0. The Star Wars logo recedes too quickly. I interpolated new frames to slow it down to the right speed.
1. Fixed the jump cut after R2 and 3PO cross the corridor (watch the Stormtroopers in the background)
2. Smoothed a jump cut as R2 starts rolling away from Leia towards 3PO.
3. Smoothed another jump cut as R2 rolls off towards the escape pod.
4. Painted out the flap of white material behind a wall when the Stormtrooper shoots Leia.
5. Fixed the goof where R2's arm opens the pod door, but disappears in the next shot.
6. When 3PO and R2 are in the pod, the Star Destroyer recedes into the background. Unfortunately so do the stars, which is not what they should see. I've replaced the stars with non-receeding ones.
7. Vader takes a very pantomimish stance when Leia is brought to him - I've cut that out.
8. Moved the restraining bolt on R2, which appears in the wrong position in one shot.
9. When 3PO stands up the Sandcrawler, his eyes blink off for half second. I've fixed that.
10. I've cut the SE Tatooine stormtroopers, so this part is now almost identical to the OT (but the CGI Dewback is still there in the background, and I've shortened the preceeding shot of the Sandcrawler).
11. I've painted out a spurious wire that sprouts from 3PO's head while he waits in line to be bought.
12. Graphic equalized some of Owen's lines due to poor audio quality.
13. I've painted the reappearing red R2 unit green to fix the continuity error.
14. There's a bad cut in the music (it completely drops out for a fraction of a second) when we see the Sandpeople mounting their Bantha - fixed.
15. I've edited out the wall hanging/cloak thing behind Luke to fix a continuity error (but in a weird way - more on that later).
16. I've morphed Luke and Ben, and adjusted 3PO, so the jump cut is not so obvious when he turns on the lightsabre (the lightsabre also visibly extends).
17. Mos Eisley. I've painted out (but kept the shot) the humanoid droid smacking down the floating droid as the speeder enters Mos Eisley. The shot with the Ronto throwing it's Jawa riders is cut.
18. (This is a really geeky one) I've painted out a small stone that could be seen rolling across the ground for apparently no reason behind Ben, as he mind-tricks the Stormtroopers.
19. I've fixed a few frames as the speeder approaches the Cantina, where the shadows were not correctly painted.
20. In the same scene, a ship in the background flys in front of two moisture vaporators, which makes it appear to be tiny. I've moved it behind the vaporators.
21. I've painted out Batboy's transparent eyes.
22. Greedo's subtitles are now "burnt" into the video, with the same font as the SE Laserdiscs.
23. Han fires first!
24. The single frame of Greedo before he fries is no longer a poor dummy.
25. Jabba - you're cut! I've done my best to reconstruct the OT here, right down to matching the number of frames in the transition.
26. The sync on Ben's line ("If the ship's as fast as he's boasting...") was out by 600ms (15 frames).
27. I've painted in the radar dish on the Falcon as it sits in docking bay 94 (just before "What a piece of junk!").
28. I've painted out the guy in a green shirt behind Han, in the first shot of Han in the cockpit after they take off.
29. Before Leia is brought to Tarkin, there's a shot of him and another officer standing in front of a poorly projected picture of Alderaan. I've replaced the projection with a shot of Alderaan from later, replicating the original shading and size.
30. Moff Tarkin's line "...then name the system!" has been graphic equalized to mask the poor audio quality.
31. The stars behind the Death Star jump (as if a few frames were cut) as the Death Star fires - I fixed that.
32. Just after Alderaan bites the big one, Luke's lightsabre is green! Now it's blue - and I've shortened it because at one point the tip remains completely out of frame, causing it to appear far too long.
33. I've used reversed footage to fix a horrendous jump cut when Luke turns off the lightsabre.
34. I've used a morph to fix a bad jump cut when Luke ignites the sabre while wearing the helmet.
35. Vader no longer gestures after finishing his sentence (the shot remains the same length).
36. When the Falcon enters the DS docking bay, I've fixed the gap in the glow from the docking bay light.
37. Some of the stars behind Vader, as he walks to the Falcon, show through his helmet.
38. I've cut the DVD-addition line "There's no-one here." as the Stormtroopers leave the Falcon. The alternative was making the second Stormtrooper reply, "Duh!"
39. Using morphs and pastes, I've fixed a few jump cuts and wobbling doors in the docking bay control room.
40. While our heroes wait for an elevator, a guy goes by first in a light shirt, then in a dark shirt. Now he just wears a dark shirt.
41. I've painted out a stray hair on Leia's forehead which disappears too quickly during a cut-away.
42. The line "I had it all under control until you led us down here!" was of particularly bad quality, so I've replaced it with the same line from the SE LD.
43. After Luke says "It just let go of me and disappeared!" the scene cuts to Leia, at which point all ambient noise suddenly diminishes. I pasted in some sounds to make the transition smoother.
44. The sound of the Stormtrooper hitting his head is so loud it sounds like a comedy sound effect. Alternative sounds didn't work out, so now he just doesn't bump his head - he hangs back until the lead trooper has entered the room.
45. I morphed R2 as he rolls out of the cupboard to fix a slight jump cut (it was much worse on the Laserdiscs but still needed touching up).
46. Two overhead shots of Ben at the Tractor Beam Station needed the colours of the matte painting corrected. The DVD was better than the LD, but there was still room for improvement.
47. Before the cut-away to Leia ("No wait, they'll here!"), Han's gun emits a puff of smoke even though he hasn't fired it yet (painted out).
48. Luke says "What good will it do us if he gets himself killed?", runs off down the corridor, then if you listen closely it sounds like he spits! I cut the sound out.
49. A morph fixes a jump cut when Leia shuts the door on the approaching Stormtroopers, leaving her and Luke trapped on the unextended bridge. There was also a visible squib on the door, which I've painted out.
50. On the DVD, they made a half-hearted effort (a single frame morph) to fix the jump cut when Ben ignites his lightsabre. I've made this a lot smoother.
51. On the DVD, they claimed to have fixed Ben's unpainted lightsabre (just before we cut to our heroes getting to the docking bay). All they did was add the glow, but they forgot to paint the white core. Another shot around this one had a similar problem for a frame or two.
52. In various shots, I've painted out the power cable that led from Ben's sleeve to his lightsabre.
53. When Luke sees the duel from a distance, Ben's lightsabre is already raised and neither sabre is painted. The sabres are now painted in the right positions.
54. When Ben gets cut down, I've added in his face so it looks less like an empty cloak.
55. I've painted Vader's sabre red in a few uncoloured scenes (when he's in the background behind the Stormtroopers).
56. When Han asks "You in kid?" Luke now replies "Yeah," before Han's "Okay, stay sharp."
57. The Falcon shudders as the TIEs pass, but the shake effect on Han and Luke is entirely horizontal and shows no motion blur. I've added rotational and translational movement, and some motion blur.
58. As the TIE makes it's first attack, the glow from the Falcon's engine has a gap in it (from the model's support?) and it flickers. I've smoothed it and filled in the gap.
59. There's a shot of R2 and 3PO in the curved seat on the Falcon. Look closely behind Artoo - for a few frames at the end, a head (probably Luke) appears. I've painted it out.
60. In five or six shots, I've removed the matte boxes from around the TIEs. One shot was particularly awful.
61. I've desaturated a green-tinted TIE fighter that passes in front of Han, and a blue-tinted TIE fighter that passes in front of Luke.
62. I've reframed one shot of a TIE approaching the camera which had no stars on the right 1/5th (or so) of the frame.
63. I've painted out parts of the motion control rig on the falcon that are briefly visible as the Falcon makes it's final descent towards Yavin IV.
64. I've painted out a tool that a technician knocks off a bench as they take care of R2.
65. I've fixed the Death Star schematic that appears on the monitor and in the briefing. The weapon bowl should appear above the equatorial trench, not on it.
66. The clock on the Death Star screen during the attack is now consistent with the announcements. One shot required colour correction to match all other shots of the clock.
67. The whole Biggs scene is gone. I never really liked it, but the ILM guy walking in front to cover up R2's jump made it terrible. They could have done a better job of that, I'm sure. Unfortunately it means I've had to remove the shot of Luke walking under his X-Wing's wing (a different take was used in the OT).
68. In a couple of scenes, I've painted out some stray hairs that Tarkin forgot to comb out.
69. Something I think everyone will be pleased about is that I've been able to restore the missing fanfare, after Red Leader says "I'm gonna cut across the axis and try and draw their fire." I used the Special Edition soundtrack CD as my source. The music was still there in the rear channels, incidentally - it definitely wasn't a creative decision!
70. In a couple of cockpit shots, I've painted out a speck of white that appears on the screen (it doesn't move in a way consistent with a distant rebel ship).
71. In two shots of ships pulling out of the trench, I've adjusted the contrast so that space appears properly black.
72. I've added an X-Wing to the shot where Luke looks down to see Red Leader bite the dust. It always bugged me that there was an explosion with no visible cause.
73. I've done my best to correct some bad blue screening, when Luke says "You can't do any more good back there!".
74. I've reframed the shot of Luke looking back at R2 after he gets shot, because he clearly wasn't smoking as he was in the shots before and after.
75. I've adjusted the colour of the stars in two trench shots, where black space appeared blue (probably not noticeable on a TV screen).
76. I've painted out a smudge on the camera, just after Ben is heard to say "Let go, Luke!"
77. I've copied the second of two identical shots of Vader spinning out of control over the first, because in the first shot, parts of the motion control rig were visible.
78. I've painted out Vader's eye in one shot when it is particularly visible through his mask.
79. As our heroes make their way to get their awards, one rebel in the background raises his hand just before a cut - I've painted it out. Maybe he needed the bathroom.
80. Leia's now don't start moving up a few frames before the credits begin.
81. Denis Lawson's name is now spelt correctly in the end credits.

As you can probably tell, this wasn't an effort to recreate the original version of ANH, but rather to create a hybrid that I could actually stand to watch.

While I wait for people to receive their copies, I'm happy to expand on any of the above or post screenshots.

Darth Editous
dartheditous@hotmail.co.uk

Post
#108997
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Time
I thought all 5.1 mixes had this screw-up, and that the reason so many foreign tracks sounded correct was because they were all 2.0 being (correctly) processed by Pro-Logic.

Prologic only has one rear channel, so I don't think you could really tell which mix it came from.

I found something quite interesting while working on these. the 1997 mix and the two 2004 mixes don't quite synch up right. If you align them at the beginning, they're off by a couple of frames by the end. It's not noticible, even when you watch it, obviously, but I did find it curious.


When I was doing the DVD from LD a couple of years ago I had to manually sync the sound to the video. I found it was pretty hard to notice any sync problems within 2 or 3 frames. So I'd go even further out of sync, making a note of how bad it was and then splitting the differences.

The interesting thing I've discovered from doing the DVDs is that the audio on all DVDs seems to be ~80ms (two frames) in advance of the video, so don't try and sync it up externally and expect it to stay in sync once you've made the DVD. True DVD players play back in sync, but DVD player software on PCs seems to keep them out of sync.

DE
Post
#108901
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Time
Why don't you get the surrounds from the AC3 soundtrack of one of the foreign releases (which *didn't* have this particular "creative decision"


It's a nice idea... but personally I don't think it's worth the effort. I still can't hear any problem with the music (though perhaps a "correct" mix would sound better), and it wouldn't be as simple as dropping in the rear channels from another country's DVDs - the echoes in the Death Star (is that what you meant by the chasm, ADM?) would still have to come from the English soundtrack, for example. I know there's a lot of leakage of dialogue from the center to the fronts, but I'm not sure about the rears, generally.

If anyone does try, bear in mind most foreign countries use PAL/SECAM, so you'll have to resample at a ratio of 1:0.95904

Better to wait for the next DVD release, which will probably have all these "creative decisions" reversed

DE
Post
#108344
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Time
These huge predators are known as krayt dragons and their bone-chilling howl is enough to send even ferocious Sand People skittering for cover

That doesn't mean that Obi-Wan's howl was that of a Krayt Dragon - don't forget, "Sandpeople are easily startled"

Maybe they saw his lightsaber and had flashbacks to the Tusken Raider legend of this guy who single handedly killed a whole tribe of Tusken Raiders with a 'laser sword'


Now that's a neat idea...

The official name of the ep 3 lizard is a Boga... at least from what I could find online.


That's that particular creature's name, I've discovered - she's a varactyl, according to http://www.starwars.com/kids/activity/draw/f20050325/

DE
Post
#108301
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Time
It's not very scary to freak out the sand people.


The way that scene is cut together, it always looked to me like Obi-Wan makes the call, the Sand People look up, see him and then run. If it was just Krayt Dragons that they're afraid of, they would have stopped when they saw it was just some old geezer in a hoody

Could this be a bit of a chinese whisper? What's the original source for identifying Obi-Wan's call as being that of a Krayt Dragon?

DE