Collipso

You actually got me. But I’m drunk so it shouldn’t count.

SilverWook said:

Thought this was a neat list.
https://www.metv.com/lists/10-forgotten-summer-popcorn-movies-of-1977-that-were-not-star-wars

I can only say for sure I saw The Deep and The Rescuers that summer.

I wasn’t even born for 23 more years hehe

But the kids are acting Luke vs FO in Crait with the doll. It has a lot more impact if it’s after the confrontation.

In fact the scene is there to establish how he’s a true legend after doing that.

Do you guys know where can I get it?

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

And to those comparing TLJ with TESB: I find it easier to relate to someone that has a lack of self trust and was lied to and has his world destroyed, than someone whose failure was almost murdering his family. I actually think it’s pretty hard to relate to the latter.

I don’t know, I almost murder my family every holiday.

I laughed out loud to this. So glad you’re back! 😄

The Beatles - Abbey Road

Lana Del Rey - Shades Of Cool

And to those comparing TLJ with TESB: I find it easier to relate to someone that has a lack of self trust and was lied to and has his world destroyed, than someone whose failure was almost murdering his family. I actually think it’s pretty hard to relate to the latter.

The original Star Wars felt relatable because Luke is a typical everyman and because it was filmed in a documentary type way, with very good world building. It has nothing to do with the fairy tale aspect of it, it’s purely product of the good movie that it is and the technical aspects cited above.

Zak fett said:

Collipso said:

Ok, I’ll start with the original. Thanks guys.

The only reason I even considered R1 is because I think that R1 nowadays is an easier movie to watch than the original, especially in this case with a girl as protagonist (since I’d be showing it to my girlfriend; and more girls in general in the movie). However, I have noted in previous viewings that it doesn’t have “introductory qualities” like the original has, so it doesn’t function as well as the introduction to the SW saga to someone new. Plus it’s so different from all the others that the first time viewer might find some recurring things in the rest of the saga odd.

Again, thanks guys.

Would YOU watch R1 before ANH ?

I would, but I’ve watched ANH countless times. Introducing someone to the franchise with R1, even if back to back viewings with ANH, is not really the best idea.

DrDre said:

eddiebrock said:

NFBisms said:

eddiebrock said:

DarthXenu said:

Luke ran away at a moment when he could have stayed and averted the entire rise of the First Order. It was precisely because Luke left that Snoke Kylo and others had an opportunity to lay waste to the galaxy. This is also why, while I love aspects of the epicness of Luke’s end on Crait, the argument that we should celebrate Luke’s effort as something that should inspire the galaxy and was an amazing act of sacrifice requires me to completely ignore the fact that Luke’s cowardice created and then grew the very enemies he is now being lauded for inspiring people to fight back against.

Lets celebrate Luke simply holding off (not defeating) enemies that have already essentially crushed everything he and his friends worked their entire lives for, enemies that he could have stopped before they even got started, if he had simply not run away. Yay?

By contrast, Obi-Wan and Yoda went into exile not as cowards but because they were literally all that was left of their order, but even in spite of that they had a plan in place to fight back against their enemies. They were playing the long game.

Luke on the other hand played no sort of game and just peaced out. Yet in the end I should celebrate the fact that he has basically brought the good guys back to a barely less state than they were when we first began his path in the Force. Honestly that’s pathetic.

And thats the bottom line for so many of us, they made Luke Skywalker pathetic. Even his victory and redemption really means nothing in the end. True victory and redemption would have been to not only acknowledge his cowardice openly (he never does) but also actually make up for it by striking his own blow to the first order.

Why not let Luke be able to get to do the damage that the Holdo Maneuver caused, for example, and go out in a blaze of glory? (I suggested this in another forum) Have him actually show up in the flesh on Crait before the rebels land there and still have all their transports, and bring down the star destroyer into the planet, killing him but giving the Resistance/rebels critical time to escape and (this is the key part) dealing the first order a critical blow, essentially making up in a small way for letting them become so big during his exile. Being more than just a distraction. He deserved something more like that.

The movie explored the nature of heroism - it’s not just about fighting what you hate, it’s saving what you love. Rose spells that out in a really cheesy dumb line at the end there in case you missed it. You can disagree with the message, but that’s still a part of RotJ and Star Wars in general to me.

Luke by the end of his arc in the OT learned to deal with things not with a lightsaber and violence, but with patience and a little compassion. He refused to strike down his father and threw his lightsaber away in a demonstration of his ideals. I don’t think his style is to wreck shit with a lightsaber and deal “critical blows.” Especially before the events of TFA, to a faction that hadn’t even done anything yet. And I’d wager being a force ghost and “more powerful than you can possibly imagine” is a lot better than kamikazing the FO just to hurt them.

Yes, his failure with Ben was a failure of himself and those ideals. But that’s the point of his guilt and disillusionment in himself. I don’t think he’d so soon after shamefully giving into his fear - if even for a second - do the same thing again, just with Snoke and the FO prior to TFA. After he has spent so long and gone through so much to develop that wisdom, he’s not going to make the same mistake twice. So he did what he thought was best, stay away. End the Jedi. To stop this madness forever. This whole cycle - the teachings that turned Vader and Kylo - ends with him. After all, the force and the light of it don’t belong to the Jedi Order. There will always be good and light with or without them. Just like there was still darkness after the Sith, otherwise we wouldn’t have Snoke.

I just don’t think TLJ asks us to celebrate Luke as an infallible legend, but as a man - more like you and me - who, in spite of his failures, was able to get back up from a rut and find a hero inside himself again. In some ways, that’s more true to the humanity of the character than the version many people wanted to see. The idea is that no one really deserves that burden. We’re all just people at the end of the day, even your heroes.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d be fine if we got the other thing too. But that’s what surprised me and what resonated with me with TLJ. They managed to take a less obvious path with the character that paid off in a way that was more poignant and emotional than I was expecting from Star Wars. We sometimes forget that Luke was just a simple farm boy and not always the self assured Jedi Knight from RotJ; he doesn’t lose his humanity just because he grew up. That was always his strength and what won against the Emperor in the first place - his compassion and love for his father. He wasn’t special because he kicked ass.

edit: WOW i’ve been beating a dead horse, i’ll shut up now. i just see the same thing all the time and no one ever responds to what i say all the way im sorry

All good. Outstanding post and you put a lot of time and effort into it. Nothing to apologise for. I completely get that view. Just don’t share it. I feel that by stepping away after he made his mistake of considering killing Ben (which I have decided to accept since no one’s perfect), Luke was even more guilty of not “saving what he loved” and by his passivity as a response, arguably caused the very deaths he foresaw. I guess I would think Luke as a hero would feel a sense of responsibility to use his powers to fight back especially since he is to blame for the mess of the First Order. I feel like every character should have a limit to patience and compassion especially when it causes deaths on a massive scale. But to each his or her own!

I guess the other bottom line for me was, I had been prepared for years for his death and had thought about all the ways Luke could die and how it would be the most emotional/saddest yet coolest thing ever. Luke going out in an epic blaze of glory was something I had dreamed of for years. And when he actually died, I got really confused and didn’t even realize he was dead until the scene shifted to the Falcon. That sucks but I’m glad you and others were moved by it and got to experience what I feel like I was robbed of (whether my own fault or not).

In hindsight, the callback to binary suns was absolutely beautiful (as the moment in ANH is arguably one of the most emotional moments in film history). But I feel like not even being prepared for it took away the resonance of the moment for me. Normally in movies surprises are fun, but I feel like I found out that for me, surprises take away the resonance of moments that should be moving.

I think a big part of it is, that TLJ completely alters the perspective on the character of Luke Skywalker. Some here are trying to defend his characterization by arguing, that TLJ Luke is a logical exponent of early OT Luke, which I don’t agree with. TLJ Luke is as much a retcon as the ROTJ final victory being undone.

Luke was the Yin to his father’s Yang. In the OT his character was set up to have most if not all of his father’s flaws, but unlike his father he was to make the right choices. His destiny was to pass on what he had learned, to surpass his elders, to become a legend.

We skip to ST continuity, where the Alliance’s victory did not lead to a lasting peace. Han and Leia who were destined to be together, got a monster kid, and they separated. It’s not that later generations squandered the OT’s victory, it’s the very heroes of the OT who let it slip through their fingers. The OT fairy tale did not have a fairy tale ending.

The ST represents the reality check of Star Wars. Legends and fairy tales are not real, and TLJ Luke Skywalker is an exponent of that. The OT Luke Skywalker is an icon, someone we aspire to be. TLJ Luke is like discovering the father you allways looked up to, is an alcoholic. He’s more human, and stripped from his iconic status. Sure, he went to AA meetings and finally sobered up, but you never quite look at him in the same way you used to.

The OT is a fairy tale, like Santa Clause, and here’s RJ to tell you Santa Clause does not exist. He’s just some guy in a suit. Christmas is never quite the same to you. Sure, your kids look to this new guy (or girl actually) who’s now wearing the suit, and see Santa Clause, but you know it’s a fake beard, because Star Wars is not a fairytale anymore.

Holy shit I honestly think this post is genius.

NeverarGreat said:

One argument that I hear against Luke is that his failure led to the First Order, but that’s clearly not true. Snoke had already turned Ben while Luke was still training him, so clearly the First Order was well-established long before Luke’s mistake. All Luke did was to accelerate Ben’s defection. In fact, if he had waited to confront Ben, the situation could have been worse because of Ben’s additional training.

Snoke finished his training though.

Hal, is there something wrong with the ‘G’ in Approaching Storm and with the ‘Y’ in Labyrinth of Evil?

yhwx said:

I’ll be the odd one out and admit that CGI Tarkin didn’t annoy me past the first scene.

I think I’m the odd one - I wouldn’t even have noticed it.

I feel like the more this discussion goes around the more distant it gets from the original source of the complaint: how we got to where we’re at.

TLJ Luke specifically is in character. What led up to that isn’t.

joefavs said:

Poe still gave the order, though. Even if it was supposed to be a kamikaze run, the plan was off by that point.

It wasn’t supposed to be a kamikaze run. Finn was the one who decided to go for a kamikaze run against Poe’s orders (after Poe ordered the retreat), so that he could save everyone. But Rose stopped that, theoretically dooming all of the rebels except for her and Finn.

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan said:

chyron8472 said:

Ryan said:

lovelikewinter said:

Ryan said:

One thing I didn’t like was you have Return of the Jedi. And then a couple of movies later you have The Last Jedi with apparently Luke being the last Jedi. It kind of makes the “Return” rather pointless.

Return of the Jedi= Vader turning back to the light.

It can be both. But Luke does become a Jedi inbetween Empire and Jedi.

No he doesn’t.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUB6Un9TR7o&t=46s

“Not yet. One thing remains…”

Well, then Luke becomes a Jedi at the end of the movie? Fits even better with Return of the Jedi being Luke becomes a “new” Jedi since 30+ years prior.

What?

I think it was a period instead of a question mark on his reply.

Ok, I’ll start with the original. Thanks guys.

The only reason I even considered R1 is because I think that R1 nowadays is an easier movie to watch than the original, especially in this case with a girl as protagonist (since I’d be showing it to my girlfriend; and more girls in general in the movie). However, I have noted in previous viewings that it doesn’t have “introductory qualities” like the original has, so it doesn’t function as well as the introduction to the SW saga to someone new. Plus it’s so different from all the others that the first time viewer might find some recurring things in the rest of the saga odd.

Again, thanks guys.

DarthXenu said:

It’s already been posted, and it’s not true at all.

joefavs said:

Porkins4real said:

flametitan said:

This isn’t a criticism of the film, but kind of a Fridge moment for me: How does Finn know how to pilot a sandskimmer? (Vaguely; he forgets to engage a certain stabilization thing but seems to have no issues after that) Wasn’t the whole reason he teamed up with Poe in TFA because he didn’t know how to pilot aircraft? I don’t think it has to do with being unfamiliar with a TIE and familiar with the sandskimmer. After all, Star wars seems to imply that piloting experience is a transferable skill; piloting one ship means you’re good at piloting them all. Nevermind that the Sandskimmer seems like it’s supposed to be a vehicle that was outdated before Finn was born, so he’d likely never be trained to pilot one.

Very true. Frankly, I was more confused but what the plan was. They had no weapons that could be of any effect, so was it a Kamakazi run? If so then Rose is a total douche for letting everyone but her and Fin die before deciding it was a bad idea.

How is that on Rose? It was Poe who called off the attack. Finn ignored the order and Rose went after him.

I think he’s talking about how she prevented Finn from suiciding therefore dooming all the other rebels except for her and Finn.

When showing someone Star Wars for the first time, do you guys say I should put Rogue One and A New Hope back to back (R1 first) or just show Rogue One last and start with the original Star Wars?

adywan said:

https://nerdist.com/the-last-jedi-mark-hamill-mo-cap-performance-canto-bight/

Does this mean I was right

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

TFA Han Solo was some fanfic writing material.

Hard disagree. One of the best parts of TFA.

Lemme guess - ROTJ Han Solo would never become TFA Han Solo?

Nah, just the aspect that they could’ve done whatever they wanted with him and they decided that we’d have ANH Han Solo again, and that particular thing felt like it was product of fan fiction. It’s extremely minor however, and these character moments that I’m referring to barely last a minute, so it doesn’t really matter and it’s not nearly enough to bother me.

In short, I was joking, and don’t actually think that.