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I don’t think it’s a parody, there were a couple of articles made on it. Rian, Hamill and Boyega were making fun of it on twitter too. I’m never going to see it though, and I know I’m better off without it. Some people are just completely out of their minds.
I think it was mentioned before, making ANH, TESB and TFA the different ones. To me though it looked a lot like TFA font.
Honestly both series have a lot of pretty awful filler episodes. Rebels more so than The Clone Wars to me though.
TLJ’s wipes looked pretty bad imo. They were there because they had to be there - they were out of place and way too fast.
I imagine that dying gives a person a great deal of perspective on things, so that when one would normally interfere with the events of the galaxy instead there’s a case of extreme passivity and letting things be. Yoda didn’t destroy anything except a rotting stump, and only because he knew that Luke needed to get beyond his hatred of Jedi dogma. It was little more than a mischievous trick, totally in keeping with the slightly crazy second most powerful Jedi in the galaxy.
And then we go back full circle again. Why did Luke even adopt the Jedi doctrine in the first place? Did he even know about it? If he had access to so much history and knew that it had failed, why attempt it? He was trained in a very different way and turned out to be the greatest Jedi of all time. Why would he go back to the stupid prequel way of being a Jedi? (That was meant to be stupid from day 1 of the PT) Sigh.
EDIT: so after reading through the thread since my last post, I guess it comes down to your interpretation. One can interpret what Obi-Wan said in a way, and others naturally in others. I too, like Warb, thought Yoda had created the lighting out of thin air. It’s not something I really have a problem with anyway, just a huge 6 page discussion over a minor nitpick. Then again, this is the Star Wars fan base.
I don’t know how you can say he conjured it out of thin air when the movie makes it a point to show it coming from storm clouds. You can’t just ignore something that’s right there in the movie.
As for how this has blown into a huge discussion, well let’s not forget about Luke force choking, at least this debate is on topic!
My mistake then. Guess I need to pay more attention to that when it comes to home video or even maybe a third viewing in theaters.
Blackstreet - No Diggity
Rey holds the lightsaber toward Luke who looks at her with great emotion.
“Who are you?” Luke asks with astonishment.
“My name is Rey. Leia wanted me to find you…and I wanted to find you.”
Luke is startled. “How did you find me?”
“We found a map, part of it in an old droid.”
“R2?” Luke asks, processing this information.
Rey nods, “and here is your lightsaber.”
Luke takes the weapon, looks at his skeletal robotic hand and back at the weapon.
“You have come to take me away from here?” Luke asks.
“If you will leave, yes.” Rey answers.
“If? If I want to leave?” Luke asks. Luke looks to the sea, the rocks, the small pesky birds. Rey can’t tell if Luke is laughing or crying.
Luke recovers. “Come with me. Not a moment out of my sight. I need to gather my belongings.”
Luke keeps an eye on Rey as they trek to his small stone hut. Inside there is little of note, ragged clothes, some ancient books, stone carvings and drawings. Luke packs the books into a satchel and looks around the hut as if for the last time. “Let’s go, Rey.”
~-~-~-~
Luke’s mouth is agape looking at the Falcon. “Han let you take his ship?”
Before Rey can answer, Chewie exits the ramp and looks up to see Luke. Their eyes meet and Luke holds back tears as the truth hits him. Luke goes to his old friend and hugs him. “I’m so sorry. How did it happen?”
Chewie barks mournfully and Luke’s countenance darkens.
“Ben? He- I can’t believe he would do that. He was….I need to see Leia.”
Chewie, Luke, and Rey quickly board the ship and leave the planet.
~-~-~-~
The Resistance Fleet is under attack by First Order ships. “How did they find us?” Leia demands.
“I can’t fathom it, Ma’am,” responds a command officer. “We don’t have the firepower to win this battle.”
“Prepare all ships to make another jump. I will transmit the jump location personally to the captains of the other ships.”
Leia taps in the coded transmission and in a moment the Resistance fleet jumps to hyperspace and after a brief span of time reenters normal space.
In short order the First Order ships are upon them again.
“Impossible!” yells Admiral Ackbar.
Leia looks angrily at the ships. “They are tracking us through hyperspace. We have no choice but to fight.
~-~-~-~
On board the Falcon, Luke is seated next to R2. “I missed you too, but you wouldn’t have enjoyed being on the island. And you had 3PO to think about.”
R2 whistles doubtfully.
Luke smiles and works at cleaning the droid, finding comfort in the task.
Rey appears confused by the attention Luke pays to the droid. “Master Skywalker, the reason I volunteered to find you is to learn about the Force.”
Luke turns his attention from R2 to Rey. “There are many texts that speak of the Force, you don’t need me.”
Rey swallows hard. “There are things I can do, things I have seen and know…and I don’t know why.”
“Tell me what you have seen,” Luke says with intense interest.
The ship is rocked as if by laser fire. Chewie roars from the cockpit. Rey and Luke run down the corridor.
Looking out from the cockpit they are in the midst of a great battle. A looming dreadnought and several Star Destroyers are exchanging fire with Resistance ships.
Squadrons of X-Wings speed past the Falcon toward the First Order ships.
“Get to the command ship,” Luke points at the biggest Resistance ship, the Raddus.
The Millenium Falcon docks with the Raddus and Luke is the first down the ramp where Leia is waiting. They embrace.
“Luke, where have you been?” Leia asks, looking at him intently.
“Ben.” Luke answers. “Ben stranded me, where nobody, not even his Master Snoke could find me. He did it to protect me.”
“Ben killed Han,” Leia responds.
Luke nods, “I can still save him, Leia.”
Leia smiles sadly, but doesn’t answer.
~-~-~-~
Boy this is good
Holy cow I do want to read this. Are you still going to make Luke and Leia siblings? If so, how do you plan to deal with this in the prequels?
I’m interested in knowing what you have in mind for the PT.
And do you plan on writing TFA/TLJ ones too?
What is the “Kurtz version?
Gary Kurtz, co-producer of Star Wars and TESB, wanted ROTJ to end on a bittersweet, poignant tone. Were Lucas not to have intervened and changed the story to be more fun and have a happy ending, among other things Han Solo would have died a sacrificial death for his friends (and completed his character arc from a selfish scoundrel to a loyal hero), there would have been no second Death Star, and also no Ewok Celebration (or “teddy bear picnic” as Harrison Ford put it).
No kidding? I’m fascinated. Did Lucas kick Kurtz off the project because of creative differences or something? I read just recently that McQuarrie had some clashes with him and was running out of ideas by ROTJ. Did they originally want to bring Kershner back to direct?
Kurtz has done a few interviews (they’re all over the internet) talking about his dislike for the direction George was taking with ROTJ. There was also supposedly a question of budget - Kurtz allowed Kershner some extra time on TESB which led to the shoot going over budget. Kurtz ended up directing some scenes himself to save time. I’m not sure how significant the budgetary factor was in Lucas’ and Kurtz’ parting of ways.
Damn, fascinating. I didn’t know any of this! So in some parallel universe, there’s a version of ROTJ that actually pays off everything in ESB, I like the weak version we got? I’d be willing to bet it was a combination of going over budget with Lucas money and Lucas probably wanting more creative control over things after ESB. I really had no idea about any of this, it’s really interesting to me. I’m a disgrace to these forums, I know 😉.
Lucas wanted to bring in Spielberg in for VI after Kershner refused, and he didn’t want to have anything to do with the movie besides writing the story and giving Kasdan the screenplay. I don’t think he asks as power hungry as he’s made out to be. Only that’s how things turned out: McCallum challenged him more in TPM than Kazanjian in RotJ. And Marquand was not a good choice for director, so Lucas basically had to co-direct the film with him. Don’t think Lucas was enjoying this though, he lost his wife because of it.
You can’t deny he was technologically innovative though, since most movies today are shot in digital cameras and Lucas was the one that started the trend.
I don’t find it innovative. The technology already existed and was being used on smaller films. All he did was use it badly.
Innovation doesn’t always age well, but what GL and Lucasfilm (along with Sony, Panavision, and a host of others) did for digital cinema literally revolutionized the industry. You don’t have to enjoy the prequels, I certainly don’t love them, but whether or not they were innovative isn’t up for debate. It’s a fact.
Just like digital photo cameras, digital film cameras are much more convenient. It’s easy to assume that they would have been adapted eventually, if they perform just as well as analog cameras. I don’t deny that Lucas probably recognized the potential and wanted to advance the technology. However, he definitely used it too early. He was more concerned with being comfortable while making the movie than with the final product. The reason more and more directors started to film digitally after Lucas was simply the advancement of the technology itself, not because they liked the look of Episode 2.
I hadn’t thought about Lucas’s comfort. I’ve always felt he was just trying too hard to appear innovative.
Shooting digital back in those early days was hardly easier and comfortable. If anything, it was a bigger pain in the a$$ than shooting on film. The problem is that shooting on film wasn’t practical for the sheer amount of digital post-work needed for episode II.
Man, I’ve edited this post way too many times, but I have one more thing to add…
One of the biggest things that made the prequels so innovative, wasn’t just the use of digital cameras or the amount of CGI or the use of Non-linear editing, etc. It was the COMBINATION of all of these things. Yes, eventually we would have gotten to where we are now. But the sheer amount of advancement in all of these technologies for one film (specifically Ep.2) brought about a good 15 years of advancement in a matter of 3-6 years.
Yes, and I don’t think any filmmaker that we’ve had in the past 40 years would have the courage to go as experimental as Lucas did in his work. Some may even argue he’s the hugest contributor to the industry for the past 50 years, by creating Jar Jar and CGI Yoda and Coruscant and shooting on digital camera in the latter two prequels. All of these things were undoubtedly milestones. Just because they would eventually happen doesn’t take the merit away from Lucas.
That’s not to say that the prequels weren’t dog crap though, because they certainly were. RotS objectively less than the others but still.
In ESB, Obiwan says that if Luke goes to face Vader he will face him alone, “I can not help you”. But look what Yoda did in TLJ. Sure seems like Obiwan could have lent a hand now.
And don’t forget Obi-Wan’s line in ANH: “If you strike me down, i shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.” . Up until TLJ, the most we see a force ghost being able to do is interact with their surroundings by moving some twigs and sitting in a log. A force ghost being able to use that power has been there since day one.
Oh Ady, you know that if the Yoda scene wasn’t in TLJ it wouldn’t even be in question if a force ghost blew something up is absurd or not.
That is literally the line that something has to cross in order to become surreal: before the movie, would that be plausible? If so, ok. If not, then that’s a no. Kylo stopping laser shot mid air? Badass and believable. Yoda blowing it all up? Not so much. Luke projecting himself? Fuck yeah. Leia coming back from the dead? Not so much. These are my standards anyway.
I repeat, these are my standards.
But ask yourself this question. Would you think it’s plausible for that (given thing) to happen, if it was only a hypothetical idea, before executed in the movie?
And about the Obi-Wan line to Vader, a line that could be compared to that is “we are what they grow beyond”, and that Obi-Wan would become a martyr and someone to whom Luke would look up to, eventually resulting in the fall of the Empire.
Collipso, as you saw above I have some of the same questions. If there are supposed to be deeper themes and meaningful character arcs, they should become richer upon inspection, or at least not fall apart. Unless this was the intention, to show that stuff happens and nobody can see the future, nobody is necessarily right or wrong. This plays into the idea that TJL is a nihilist work - something I haven’t been convinced on.
However, RJ may be focused on the ethics of decisions, whatever the morality or practical result. This would at least accord with his treatment of the light vs dark side, I think.
Yeah but I don’t think that simply the ethics of the decisions is a good enough reason to sacrifice basically all the lore and understanding that we previously had and was previously established of the force, how it works and the training to become a powerful force user, etc.
I agree…but if I’m right about what RJ was doing, he came at the project with a wholly different orientatation from which he doesn’t see a conflict, or at least not a meaningful conflict. From that kind of view, telling a story of good vs evil is flat and facile. By making the story a question of ethics, it is automatically more complex. It is like adding a third dimension, rather than creating a conflict - so long as you view it from that third dimension.
To illustrate, consider Yoda’s line that “we are what they grow beyond.” It’s not blatantly at odds with any particular line in the OT. But it is a different point of view from looking beyond this crude matter and to the Force. In that line, I see the same kind of focus on ethical behavior that others can carry on rather than moral choices which allow becoming one with the Force.
I can agree with this.
EDIT: so after reading through the thread since my last post, I guess it comes down to your interpretation. One can interpret what Obi-Wan said in a way, and others naturally in others. I too, like Warb, thought Yoda had created the lighting out of thin air. It’s not something I really have a problem with anyway, just a huge 6 page discussion over a minor nitpick. Then again, this is the Star Wars fan base.
Thanks Jason! Yeah, I probably should’ve checked that…
Wow this thread is pretty much dead I guess? Still, spoilers should be coming soon and I’d like to avoid them so I’ll be jumping out of the spoiler thread in a near future.
Collipso, as you saw above I have some of the same questions. If there are supposed to be deeper themes and meaningful character arcs, they should become richer upon inspection, or at least not fall apart. Unless this was the intention, to show that stuff happens and nobody can see the future, nobody is necessarily right or wrong. This plays into the idea that TJL is a nihilist work - something I haven’t been convinced on.
However, RJ may be focused on the ethics of decisions, whatever the morality or practical result. This would at least accord with his treatment of the light vs dark side, I think.
Yeah but I don’t think that simply the ethics of the decisions is a good enough reason to sacrifice basically all the lore and understanding that we previously had and was previously established of the force, how it works and the training to become a powerful force user, etc.
Is there a no spoiler thread for the Han Solo movie?
Ok, so I was thinking about the movie again and some different thoughts came to mind, such as Poe’s arc. I mean, sure he’s a hothead, but his entire arc isn’t his fault. Leia basically goes along with his plan to take down the huge monster ship I don’t remember the name (I’m sure she could’ve called off all the bombers and fighters if she wanted to, and she outranks Poe, so…), then when a lot of people die he basically takes all of the responsibility. And in the end, destroying the ship was the right decision anyway. Of course, these are nitpicks, so not valid criticism.
Another thing is that it seems the dark side and the light side of the force are inverted in the Sequel Trilogy. In The Empire Strikes Back, Yoda tells Luke that the dark side is easier and more seductive. In Return of the Jedi Luke is tempted. That’s what it’s about - an easy tempting way, in exchange for your humanity and the good in you. The light side, on the other hand, is just as powerful, but you have to be fully committed to it, hardworking, focused, you have to let go of things that will not be good for you. Resist the temptations. It’s the hard path, the one that takes time.
But when you come to think about it, Rey is more in tune with the ways of the dark side, while Kylo’s journey resembles that of a Jedi, or a light side user.
I’m sure all of this has been mentioned already, but these are just some quick few thoughts that came to mind, that I felt are worth sharing.
Loved them! TLJ and TFA suffer but it’s the art’s fault, not yours. They look amazing.
My Cloak Of Deceltion’s version’s crawl starts with “Mired by greed and corruption…” but I’ve seen some that starts with “For over a thousand generations…”
Which one is the most recent? And which one will be included in the new version? (Sorry for being confused)
What does Phasma say to Finn before they fight? I still can’t make it out.
The line that comes right before Finn says “let’s go chrome dome”?
The Phantom Menace was shot on 35MM so that can be true 4K, however the other two prequels were shot digitally and not even at 1080p
So by trying to appear technologically innovative Lucas shot AotC and RotS on formats that can’t meet today’s high resolution standards, but the first one from 1977 can? That’s hilarious.
AotC and RotS are the worst two IMO anyway.
You can’t deny he was technologically innovative though, since most movies today are shot in digital cameras and Lucas was the one that started the trend.
What is the “Kurtz version?
Gary Kurtz, co-producer of Star Wars and TESB, wanted ROTJ to end on a bittersweet, poignant tone. Were Lucas not to have intervened and changed the story to be more fun and have a happy ending, among other things Han Solo would have died a sacrificial death for his friends (and completed his character arc from a selfish scoundrel to a loyal hero), there would have been no second Death Star, and also no Ewok Celebration (or “teddy bear picnic” as Harrison Ford put it).
No kidding? I’m fascinated. Did Lucas kick Kurtz off the project because of creative differences or something? I read just recently that McQuarrie had some clashes with him and was running out of ideas by ROTJ. Did they originally want to bring Kershner back to direct?
Lucas wanted Kershner for VI too, but he turned it down.
Holy cow you guys are so creative. This might be my favorite thread of the whole site.
- Star Wars
- The Empire Strikes Back (#1 and #2 are extremely close though. It’s almost a tie.)
- Return of the Jedi
- The Force Awakens
T. Rogue One (I can’t pick between these two yet, very different strengths, very different weaknesses.)- The Phantom Menace
- The Last Jedi (#6 and #7 are also extremely close, and also hard to compare.)
- Attack of the Clones
T. Revenge of the Sith (I can’t pick between these two. Both are completely bottom of the barrel.)
So basically AotC, RotS and TLJ are almost tied?
The movies are so different though.