TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

Collipso said:

You guys are acting as if Dre considered Luke to be some sort of legend in the OT. I share his opinion on several aspects regarding TLJ, and even though I can’t speak for him, I believe you guys are wrong.

Luke in the OT is not a legend, but a hero that you can clearly see that is as flawed as we regular people are, but he still managed to achieve greatness. Not by overthrowing the empire, not by literally being a hero to the rest of the galaxy, but by being a loving son and redeeming his father. He was Vader’s hero, not the alliance or the republic. The hero of his father and of the Jedi.

In A New Hope yes, he’s the big hero, he saved everyone, destroyed the big Death Star, he was the hero of the Rebels. But in the other two movies his victories (or defeats in the case of ESB (and even RotJ)) are so much smaller and yet so much bigger than the one in ANH.

Luke is far from perfect in the OT. Far from legend. At least that’s what I had always thought.

I’m not entirely sure about the comparison to drunk Santa Claus, but comparing it to a dad you admired a lot (and already knew he was flawed and that’s why you admired him) until you find out he’s a drunk farce who basically says he didn’t learn anything from the past because who cares if the future is always in motion or if he redeemed Vader, he’ll just ignite his laser sword to his own blood because he’s insane now because plot.

Right on. Maybe the EU made Luke out to be a legend/myth (and told stories that justified that view) but that wasn’t who he was at the end of ROTJ.

And IMO there’s your problem right there. The Luke of TLJ is 30 years removed from the end of ROTJ but you still want him to be in the exact same place for some reason.

You’re right, he wasn’t a legend at the ROTJ. The Battle of Endor had just ended. Why are you so sure he wouldn’t become a legend as the years passed, especially after he disappeared?

The problem is that for me there wasn’t enough character development for me to believe he’d change this much. If there’s no character development of course I think he’s going to be in the same place as seen before. Like Dre said, the 60sec flashback was not enough character development to convince me.

dahmage said:

Collipso said:

I’m not entirely sure about the comparison to drunk Santa Claus, but comparing it to a dad you admired a lot (and already knew he was flawed and that’s why you admired him) until you find out he’s a drunk farce who basically says he didn’t learn anything from the past because who cares if the future is always in motion or if he redeemed Vader, he’ll just ignite his laser sword to his own blood because he’s insane now because plot.

oh good, more hyperbole.

I point this out, because i don’t know how to respond to it. I understand why people use hyperbole, it is usually because of pent up frustration. But if i respond to it, it will just turn the thread into a pissing contest. I usually spend quite a bit of time when i do post in this thread (anymore), to try to edit my post several times to remove the hyperbole. but i am sure i miss alot, i am only human after all.

Well yeah, it was a hyperbole. But I went “eh?” So that’s enough for me to at the very least question it.

You guys are acting as if Dre considered Luke to be some sort of legend in the OT. I share his opinion on several aspects regarding TLJ, and even though I can’t speak for him, I believe you guys are wrong.

Luke in the OT is not a legend, but a hero that you can clearly see that is as flawed as we regular people are, but he still managed to achieve greatness. Not by overthrowing the empire, not by literally being a hero to the rest of the galaxy, but by being a loving son and redeeming his father. He was Vader’s hero, not the alliance or the republic. The hero of his father and of the Jedi.

In A New Hope yes, he’s the big hero, he saved everyone, destroyed the big Death Star, he was the hero of the Rebels. But in the other two movies his victories (or defeats in the case of ESB (and even RotJ)) are so much smaller and yet so much bigger than the one in ANH.

Luke is far from perfect in the OT. Far from legend. At least that’s what I had always thought.

I’m not entirely sure about the comparison to drunk Santa Claus, but comparing it to a dad you admired a lot (and already knew he was flawed and that’s why you admired him) until you find out he’s a drunk farce who basically says he didn’t learn anything from the past because who cares if the future is always in motion or if he redeemed Vader, he’ll just ignite his laser sword to his own blood because he’s insane now because plot.

Not only in SW.

The blade runner ones are amazing.

Eh I still fail to see Rey’s struggles and challenges. She didn’t even feel like the protagonist in this one. I guess it was Kylo. He’s literally the only character that got interesting and deep character arcs in both movies so far. Imo, of course.

HerekittykittyX said:

RUN_LUKE_RUN said:

need this in the last jedi
https://youtu.be/I7I0xJNIxiE

Goooood

Why don’t you add that to your PT? As an extra in the CGI cow AotC scene.

If Disney is going to get money out of it, why not?

rodneyfaile said:

moviefreakedmind said:

rodneyfaile said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I’m shocked that anyone could ever sit through the entire Holiday Special. I think I might have made it through five or ten minutes at the most.

I watch it on YouTube all the time. Bea Arthur is great. It’s definitely better than the prequels and special editions. No, that’s not hyperbole. There is nothing in the Holiday Special worse than jar-jar or that Jedi rocks musical crap.

No, it’s not better than the prequels or SEs.

Art is objective, not subjective.

The idea that there’s a skill behind filmmaking makes it not subjective but objective.

Damn it.

edit: what the fuck defense

moviefreakedmind said:

SilverWook said:

Threepio and Artoo being at the Rebel base makes sense if Bail Organa is there. There’s nothing to contradict them not having been to the Yavin system before.
Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba being on Jedha was pushing it. Had they simply been in the foreground or background of a crowd scene instead of calling attention to them would have been better.

Exactly, and the same goes for R2 and 3PO. Calling attention to then is just a distraction from the plot to say, “Remember these guys?” I don’t mind Easter eggs, I just don’t like it when films stop in order to draw my attention to things that are exciting purely because they were in other, better films.

I think it’s because they’re meant to be in every Star Wars movie.

DominicCobb said:

There is the argument that Lucas was working with certain archetypes.

Were they gender specific?

I suppose you’d have to invert both, because they have a romantic relationship. Or simply have them being gay - that way it totally works.

Tobar said:

‘Star Wars Rebels’ sets 90-minute series finale

“Star Wars” is officially closing one chapter in its universe, with the animated series “Star Wars Rebels” to conclude March 5 with a 90-minute series finale.

The program, which airs on Disney XD, will return February 19 with back-to-back episodes leading up to its conclusion.

The cable network also confirmed that Ian McDiarmid – who has played Emperor Palpatine in the “Star Wars” movies – will provide the character’s voice during this final flurry of episodes. (Another actor had previously voiced the character, who has been heard but not seen in the series.)

The emperor is shown fleetingly in the trailer, which was released Friday.

Despite airing on a children’s network, “Rebels,” now in its fourth season, has been an intriguing offshoot of the “Star Wars” mythology, focusing on a small band battling against the empire several years before the events depicted in the original movie, subtitled “A New Hope.”

The question of what happened to those characters – which include a Jedi named Kanan and his apprentice, Ezra – has hung over the series in terms of how dark the ending might be.

In October, series producer Dave Filoni told CNN that charting a finish to the series represented “quite a puzzle,” saying, “The ending works as it’s meant to. One of George’s main things about ‘Star Wars’ is it is a story about hope. … I tried to stick to those themes.”

Lucasfilm parent Disney has ramped up its production of live-action “Star Wars” prequels, but Filoni said that there’s still a wide array of possibilities for animated storytelling as well.

Source

Yes!

After Poe is told the plan he shows how he’s totally ok with it. He goes along and thinks it’s a good plan. So you could argue that Holdo was the one that killed many rebels by not telling anything to Poe which made him take action, thinking she was leading everyone to their deaths. Only it backfired and a lot of people died.

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

I don’t see how Lando being a woman would change the story at all. I can understand Han or Leia, but not Lando. Luke I’m not sure, but I think it’d work too. Female Vader would work. Female Tarkin too. Female Emperor. There are no characteristics to the characters that are specific to males.

Hang on…what characteristic did Lando have that was specific to males?

I didn’t know how to phrase it. I meant that every character except for Han and Leia would work if they were the opposite gender.

Oooh thanks SilverWook! Never noticed that!

J0E said:

Collipso said:

J0E said:

[…] “Muh-Rey Suuuue” […]

I wouldn’t advise using that term, but you didn’t really use it seriously or anything so I think it’s ok. Just don’t use it.

I thought it was pretty clear that I was mocking people who use it, just merely stating I can see their perspective. I’ll keep that in mind, thanks.

It was, and I noted that. Just a friendly advice.

Edit: I agree with your take on Rey in this movie.

I don’t see how Lando being a woman would change the story at all. I can understand Han or Leia, but not Lando. Luke I’m not sure, but I think it’d work too. Female Vader would work. Female Tarkin too. Female Emperor. There are no characteristics to the characters that are specific to males.

J0E said:

[…] “Muh-Rey Suuuue” […]

I wouldn’t advise using that term, but you didn’t really use it seriously or anything so I think it’s ok. Just don’t use it.

Oh hi Ric.

ElectroDroid said:

Non star-wars-news junkie here. So was there actually a 4K restoration that took place? I assume this thread was based on some sort of speculative news article.

Nope. There is one going on but it’s not official.

Just watched Annie Hall and Star Wars back to back and I must say Lucas was robbed of a certain award in 1978.

MalàStrana said:

Collipso said:
out of 100 characters in the OT literally 3 are women. I don’t think that’s something defendable.

?

I don’t get it. “not defendable”… are you… talking about some kind of… positive discrimination ? Can’t agree with that. If there aren’t more women in the OT, it’s just because more were not needed (when you see Phasma in the ST, she could be a man it wouldn’t make any difference). If Luke, Han or Lando had been women, you just don’t get the same movies at all. All characters are perfect the way they are in the OT, gender included. And before you start going on the “it’s because men made these movies”, remember who had a strong influence over Lucas when he was making ANH (I give you a clue: his wife) and who wrote the first drafts of TESB (i.e. one of the best western screenwriters… movies with very few women by the way !).

(and I would also add that there aren’t that many characters in the OT…)

I don’t blame Lucas, after all he’s just a white guy who was making his movies and might’ve pictured them in a way or another, and he pictured most of them based off of his reality and the world he lived in. In the case of Star Wars, apparently white people in space, white cowboy in desert, and such. But that was his reality, Lucas was a white guy who lived with white people. Look at American Graffiti too, for example. He simply made a movie about white guys with cars, because he was a rich white guy with a car in the 60’s once, that was his reality. Anyway.

The point I was trying to get across is that there is evidence that Star Wars was a white male-dominant franchise, even in the PT, a more contemporary work, and it really is, and because of that I don’t blame Disney for trying to expand the horizons and targeting new audiences.

That’s not to say the franchise or Lucas is sexist. It’s just saying that you can’t attack people who say Star Wars was way too white male oriented, or women who’d complain about not having as much representation in Star Wars, or any other minorities saying that kind of thing.

And what people are saying is that the Empire is racist towards anything or anyone that’s not a white male, at least for its military, in the OT. And people are comparing them to the guy that created the fan edit. He might not be sexist himself (I personally highly doubt that he isn’t though) and might not explicitly say that he doesn’t like the everyone-oriented version of Star Wars, but the title of the movie alone is considered enough to some people (myself included) to call it a sexist thing, and that’s why comparisons were drawn to imperial officers.

I don’t know why they’d compare the editor to Hux though, since the FO seems more alien-racist than sexist or racist against other humans.

DominicCobb said:

To me the mere presence of a familiar character or ship or whatever doesn’t really qualify as fan service, so long as their inclusion makes sense. Otherwise the existence of the movie(s) itself is fan service, which, yeah, I suppose so, but maybe the distinction here is good fan service vs. bad/misplaced fan service.

Bad/misplaced fan service would be of course a character or ship showing up that doesn’t make sense for the story or if there’s too many or they put too much undo emphasis on them like Evazan and Ponda Baba in RO. Like, if Boba Fett shows up, fine, we know he and Han run in the same circles. But the key is to make sure he’s only given as much importance as the film itself supports. I could imagine a scenario where he shows up and does something cool yet unimportant and vanishes like Hawkeye in the first Thor movie. That, to me, is bad fan service.

Darth Vader in RO comes dangerously close to this, honestly. All of his scenes are narratively dubious but at least it makes sense for him to be a part of that story. And, though some may disagree, I don’t think they prop his character up to be too much more than he actually is.

That’s the other fear with “fan service,” taking a character everyone loves and making sure they’re 110% cool and bad ass throughout (more so than the character actually is). They’ve done a very good job with this thus far, I won’t go into TLJ spoilers here but that film completely dodged the easy and obvious bad fan service bait with Luke Skywalker, which I’m very grateful for. They did the same with Han Solo in TFA (besides one very small moment), so for the most part I trust they’ll do his character justice here.

I agree with this 100%. Upon rewatches, the Vader scenes in RO have been falling flat more and more. I hope we don’t have much of that in Solo.