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Class316

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Members
Join date
23-Sep-2004
Last activity
28-Mar-2024
Posts
262

Post History

Post
#1583051
Topic
Info: How many Disney 35mm scans exist?
Time

littlejoe416 said:

Lol at anyone to putting words in my mouth or sticking up for song of the south, an unnecessary and indeed unfortunate association with Disney to say the absolute least. If no one ever saw this film again I’m pretty sure the world would be just fine. Feel how you want but don’t act disingenuous and shocked when someone wants to detract from it, it deserves it.

All this is your personal opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. For some people, it’s worth their time. For you, it isn’t. No one is forcing you to watch it, don’t try to say others shouldn’t watch it. Whoever is offended by it, don’t watch. Whoever feels it’s worth their time can enjoy it. Plain and simple.

There are also plenty of movies I feel aren’t worth my time while others feel otherwise.

imsorrydave2448 said:

What’s even more hilarious is Disney has a G rated movie they made in the 2000’s on Disney Plus right now that has the n word with the hard r twice, the k slur for black South Africans, and has a black South African get his ass whopped by a white waiter lol.

Out of curiosity what movie are you referring to?

Post
#1580457
Topic
35mm Print of Eyes Wide Shut on Ebay!!
Time

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Clarification - this print is an Italian print. It did not come with English DTS discs (I do not have those and lack the knowledge to process the raw disc file even if I did.)

Italian audio is optical stereo, which will certainly stand out if plugged into English DTS.

If anyone has the English Cinema DTS and wants to sync it to the BD/this scan (same timing), feel free.

I’ve heard that some later 35mm restrikes had the chanting removed as well. And of course being an Italian print, you’re not being censored visually (digitally added people in the orgy) like the US.

Correct me if I’m mistaken, but by the time it got to Europe the chants were already removed. So any Italian audio you have should be censored. Right?

Post
#1580109
Topic
35mm Print of Eyes Wide Shut on Ebay!!
Time

Penti Mento said:

You guys keep saying “censored” but I assume all you mean is the religious chants have been removed/replaced as in all subsequent video releases of the flick, correct? You’re not talking about, like cursing bleeped out, etc? I’d like the original audio as I saw it in the theater too, but it was replaced by his estate, and it’s not egregiously different than the original.

Correct. And whether or not it is much different is opinion. There should be two tracks so people can choose.

Post
#1579627
Topic
35mm Print of Eyes Wide Shut on Ebay!!
Time

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Here’s where things stand now:

(1) I attended a cinema 35mm screening of Eyes Wide Shut recently. That was my final color check to make sure I was encoding everything in a way that was faithful to a print being projected.

Took detailed color notes, yada yada. Was in a good ballpark but this helped me hone in on things. The home video releases are really not representative of the original look at all.

Despite being a foreign print (which makes it luckily uncensored), it seems to bear the same color as domestic prints.

So color complete.

(2) Settled on a relatively good crop, more info on the top, bottom, and sides than the BD. But obviously this is still hard matted to widescreen.

Crop complete.

(3) Patched in any missing frames so this is a frame-complete release synced to the BD. You can freely put whatever dubs or subs are with the BD.

Frame-complete…er, complete.

(4) I just need to get my encoding finessed as this is a grain-heavy print. A 4K encode alone takes 4 days on my system once it gets started, even without any of the testing.

This is the stage I need to complete still 😃

I’ll PM everyone in the next two weeks with details. Missed the mark on Christmas but there shouldn’t just be one time of year to enjoy some Kubrick

Fantastic work! But about an uncensored audio track? This can be done by patching the current track with the soundtrack CD

Here is some info:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StanleyKubrick/comments/ae4n5j/the_song_played_during_the_orgy_scene_in_eyes/

https://alt.movies.kubrick.narkive.com/w3dfozPV/eyes-wide-shut-soundtrack-bhagavad-gita

A famous Russian torrent site has the soundtrack CD in full.

The track that interests us is track #9.

I can’t find online videos showing before and after.

Post
#1573895
Topic
Fantasia Special Edition Laserdisc Restoration v2.3
Time

CMGF said:

I actually owe both of you a great thanks… Fantasia is one of my childhood favorites, and I would have never known what was wrong with the way I used to watch it if it wasn’t the old Laserdisc V1 and the detailed write up that came with it.

Yep that write up was written to have an impact!

BTW, I noticed that this thread is getting more and more PM requests recently, which is very nice to see! I’m considering to upload both this release and the 35mm one on archive, hopefully they won’t flag it.

I think the increased PM requests came because of the links I put in the review of V1 on archive.

Post
#1573889
Topic
Fantasia Special Edition Laserdisc Restoration v2.3
Time

Starbond9 said:

Great work Class.

Thanks man, but greater work to both you and CMGF! And your own work still lives on in the audio tracks of all 3 Fantasia releases that we now have.

its amazing to see how far this has come since the first version we made 3 years ago. I’d like to see the new version if >you could PM me the information

It really is. I cannot believe it was January 2021 when that happened and now it’s already January 2024. Where has all the time gone!

Post
#1573602
Topic
Most impressive film preservation project ?
Time

I might be biased, but I’m going to say these Fantasia projects. Remember before 2021 there were basically no Fantasia projects that existed beyond simply adding back the censored scenes into the DVD or blu.

LD:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Fantasia-Special-Edition-Laserdisc-Restoration-v2-3/id/110017

Blu:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Fantasia-Special-Edition-Blu-Ray-Restoration-V2-0-Released/id/104813

35mm:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Fantasia-Special-Edition-35mm-Restoration-1-0-released/id/101085

Post
#1571884
Topic
THX on 35mm Tech IB preservation - HELP NEEDED (work in progress)
Time

stretch009 said:

Class316 said:

Before 2021 Fantasia was the worst restored/preserved. Second worst was THX1138. But since then THX1138 is now last place since Fantasia has come so far. Right now you essentially have two choices for THX1138. Either the laserdisc rip or the Grindhouse Edition. And the laserdisc version looks pretty rough in this day and age.

Nope, this is the only way to go for now:

https://ifdb.fanedit.org/thx-1138-the-hybrid-cut/

Can you PM a link to get it?

Post
#1559565
Topic
Fantasia Special Edition Laserdisc Restoration v2.3
Time

The OG Fantasia restoration just got a new upgrade! CMGF did it again! This release basically synchs up the restored laserdisc edition with the restored 35mm and blu ray releases so that they now all have matching content, it replaces the Sunflower segments with the cleaned up footage so that it fits better with Disney’s early 90s restoration, AND it fixes deinterlacing issues that have long plagued this edition.

Here is his write up, and I quote:

start

This is the V2.3 update of Class316’s Fantasia Special Edition Laserdisc release. Here’s what has been done for this upgrade:

The opening scene on the Laserdisc (and early 2000s Australian DVD) has missing footage. To fix this, blu ray footage was used as a source to patch this up.

Originaltrilogy.com member Greg Z manually cleaned up all the censored scenes from V1.0 of the restored 35mm release. As with the 2.0 release of the restored blu ray edition, the previous Thunderbean source was replaced with the cleaned up one.

As with the restored blu ray and restored 35mm releases, both laserdisc soundtracks, Fantasound and Mono, were synced with the new footage. The sources used for the full opening scene are:

-Fantasound: Stereo Mag mix from 35mm release
-Mono: Thunderbean’s Mono soundtrack

[Australian DVD footage deinterlaced using ShotCut]

[Soundtracks and video multiplexed using MKVToolNix]

end


V2.2

Yes folks, the best got even better! The great CMGF of originaltrilogy.com has redone the whole V2 of Fantasia from the ground up and made the best version of Fantasia that exists even better! He corrected several issues and used the Thunderbean release as a source for the “offensive” scenes as they worked better than what was used before. The only thing here that remains 100% the same from previous releases are the patched/fixed Fantasound 90 and mono audio tracks from the laserdisc!

Here is his write up, and I quote:

start

This version of Fantasia is a redo of the V2 release, featuring a slowed down PAL DVD as video source and a high quality laserdisc Rip for audio. The same V2 release had a framerate problem, and this release is done mostly to fix it. Here is what was done to create it:

  1. PAL DVD was slowed down using TSMuxer.

  2. End titles and opening home video titles from laserdisc were removed, as they were not there in the 40’s theatrical releases of Fantasia.

  3. Audio was synced to the DVD video track. The censored scenes were sourced from the Thunderbean 35mm release, which are already color corrected, to fix the pixelation problem during those scenes in V1/2 of the restoration.

  4. Intermission card from the 2000 NTSC DVD of Fantasia was added, but extended to 15 minutes.

  5. The “Mono-Compatible” second option track of V1/2 was added and synced to match the DVD video as well.

  6. Both tracks and the video were multiplexed using MKVToolNix.

Just like V2, sadly, the video came out a bit interlaced. If it’s bothering you, just turn on the “Deinterlace” option in VLC.

end

Pending better materials, I don’t foresee a better version being made.


V2.1:

Not long after V2 laserdisc edition was out, respawn40 on cartoon chaos released the blu ray of Thunderbean’s 35mm scan in 720p. They used an existing source to insert the censored bits back and these look better than what we have. CMGF of originaltrilogy.com replaced those scenes in 2.0 with that of Thunderbean’s release, and voila, 2.1!

Here is his write up:

start

Recently the 2nd Class316 Fantasia restoration has been released, and it used an Australian DVD as a video source instead of the old laserdisc. Video-wise they were the same, but for obvious reasons the DVD had better quality and more details. For the censored sunflower segments, Class316 gave me an HD transfer. However, Thunderbean released a 35mm scan of the full uncensored fantasia, and the censored parts had much better colors than the old HD transfer. While the 35mm scan itself has its faults, the sunflower segments look great. So that gave the idea to upgrade V2 release with these. Very oddly, every sunflower segment in the 35mm scan had about 2 missing frames, so I had to slow it down a bit. But no one can notice a 2-frame difference, and it really does look great.

end

Again, I think him for his work. Hoping for more Fantasia projects in the future. Please feel free to release this on Torrent, my only request is you keep this write up along with it.

V2:

Hello everyone, Class316 is back with another awesome Fantasia release!

In 2021 I was excited to finally be able to present to the Internet and the planet Earth an authentic version of Walt Disney’s Fantasia for the first time ever since 1969. As approved by Walt himself! Please see my 2021 write up (bottom of this write up) for info on that if you haven’t read it already (and please do so before reading further).

How do we top that in 2022? Improve the video quality and make it even MORE authentic and accurate to Walt Disney’s theatrical release in 1946.

As already stated in my original write up, the 2000 DVD release’s video does not reflect the original artists work due to Disney’s retouching. The audio is no longer Fantasound, longer (and less preferred) intros are used, and Deems Taylor has been dubbed in said intros.

BUT somehow an oddity that is the PAL DVD exists. The video in this release uses the same video source as the laserdisc, but much better quality! The audio is unfortunately the same audio as its NTSC counterpart, dub and all, but edited town to reflect the shorter intros and even the missing audio in the censored bits of the pastoral symphony (just like its laserdisc predecessor). Not sure how this version exists, but it is a great thing that it does.

AlanGrant from myspleen comes through again and released a rip of the Australian DVD. Here is his write up, and I quote:

start

This is the 2000 Australian “Walt Disney Classics” release of Fantasia. Unlike most other releases, this uses the 2 hour long 1990 home video master, albeit sped up for a PAL frame rate- ending up with a runtime of 1 hour, 54 minutes and 30 seconds. The audio is a butcherization of the already butchered 2000 5.0 audio track (ft. Corey Burton overdubbing Deems Taylor) that has been cut to match.

Several noticeable differences to other, more modern releases include:

-Color timing is much brighter, especially in the “Nutcracker Suite” section of the film
-A recreation of the 1940 intermission card is used as a title, as opposed to the 1941 “RKO” titlecard used for the 81-minute cut and all post-2000 releases
-A ~115 minute runtime made to resemble the 1946 release of the film (which restored Toccata and Fugue), as opposed to the 124-minute 1940 Roadshow version

This is a substantial upgrade to the LaserDisc transfer I did and, even for the small size of the DVD, it looks great. It may or may not be an upscale of an NTSC source- however, since there is no proper release of the 1990 version on DVD format in an NTSC territory, this is the next best thing.

The only processing done was running the DVD through DVD Decrypter.

end

Now with the V1 release we have Starbond9’s patched Fantasound and mono tracks from the laserdisc. So a better quality version of Fantasia was now attainable with DVD quality video and the tracks from V1. On comes CMGF from originaltrilogy.com to tackle this task. Not only did he do a great job in restoring the “offensive” scenes back in the Pastoral Symphony of the PAL DVD, but he made the whole thing even more accurate to Walt’s 1946 approved version by restoring the RKO title card for intermission after the Rite of Spring segment (as seen in the 2000 US DVD and the more recent Blu Ray releases). Here is his full write up on what was done, and I quote:

start

This write-up is presenting the V2 release of Class316’s restoration of Disney’s Fantasia. The purpose of this restoration is to make an authentic version of the film, with the censored scenes, Terry Porter’s recreation of fantasound and Deems Taylor’s own voice. Here’s a list of all the things were done to create this V2 improvement of the restoration:

-The Australian 2000 DVD was converted into a full MKV file to replace the laserdisc video used in the previous version.

-Then, it was slowed down to NTSC.

-Modern titles and end credits were cut off as they were not in the original film.

-The fantasound and mono tracks were sourced from the V1 laserdisc edition, then successfully synced to match the video.

-Censored bits were accurately inserted, sourced from the V1 laserdisc restoration.

-The intermission RKO card, sourced from the 2000 US DVD, was inserted but extended to 15 minutes.

-Some minor pixelation was caused as a result of the slowing-down process at some short, specific parts - However the pixelation was fixed in editing. The two soundtracks were multiplexed using MKVToolNix GUI.

-The video format of this release is a bit interlanced - Most of the time It’s not even visible, but if it bothers you, in VLC just turn on the “deinterlance” option and it goes away.

end

I thank him for this release that improved an already great V1 release. This will exist side by side with V1 in case anyone prefers the rougher laserdisc video. Please feel free to release this on Torrent, my only request is you keep this write up along with it.

V1:

Hello everyone. My username is Class316, and over the years it has bothered me that there was been no authentic version of Fantasia available for viewing (officially or otherwise). Unlike the Original Star Wars Trilogy, Song of the South, and many others, Fantasia never got the same love. So over the years I took it upon myself to find a way to change that.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, I present to you something that is not only long overdue, but also making its Internet debut! Disney’s timeless classic Fantasia with Fantasound, Deems Taylor’s voice, AND all the censored scenes restored!

As most of you may know, in what is probably one of the earliest cases of cartoon censorship in the name of political correctness, the “offensive” scenes from the Pastoral Symphony of Fantasia were cut out in 1969, never to be seen in official form again. Additionally, Fantasound was lost to time.

In the early 90s Disney would recreate Fantasound theatrically in two theaters, one in New York and one in Los Angeles. This would be dubbed as “Fantasound 90”. And this would be the basis of the audio in the VHS, Laserdisc, and soundtrack CD released in the early 90s. Although a few seconds of audio is missing from the Pastoral Symphony of those releases due to the censorship. Regarding the intros, these home releases use the shortened (and generally more preferred) intros by Deems Taylor.

In 2000, Disney released Fantasia on DVD. This was dubbed “original and uncut” on the cover. Was it uncut? Debatable. It PANNED the “offensive” scenes (thus yielding complete audio at least) but it is anything but “original” as Disney blatantly falsely advertised on the front cover. Additionally, unlike the LD, the DVD audio is far gone from Fantasound. To boot, Disney chose to use the longer intros. In itself perhaps not necessarily a bad thing as some might prefer that. But the audio of said intros were so deteriorated that they couldn’t be used. So rather than work with what was still usable, Disney decided to completely dub Deems Taylor’s voice entirely with that of actor Corey Burton.

Here is a youtube comparison of the uncensored Pastoral Symphony segment compared to the modern-day censored versions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyPFibRadto

In 2010 Fantasia was released on blu ray and its audio was even more far gone from Fantasound than the DVD release (and of course retained the dubbing and censorship of the DVD release).

Another “feature” of both the DVD and blu ray releases is the visual “retouching” that Disney is infamous for when it comes to their older films. Meaning the laserdisc more so reflects the work of the original artists than the more modern releases do.

Now there have been projects on the Internet that have restored all the censored scenes back into Fantasia. But all those releases use the DVD or blu ray release as the basis. Meaning there has yet to be a fully authentic version of Fantasia that is available, officially or otherwise. That is up until February 2021!

Over the years I had collected many Fantasia related things, these include but are not limited to:

In December 2018, I was given (by someone who has long disappeared) a great looking HD version of the censored scenes.

In August 2020, Myspleen user AlanGrant released a wonderful rip of the early 90s CAV laserdisc. Here is his write up of it, and I quote:

start

This is the 1990 remaster of Fantasia transferred from the CAV LaserDisc boxset, released in January of 1991. This serves not only as a preservation of the 1990 remaster, but of the LaserDisc itself as this is one of numerous disc sets that has disc rot issues which will intensify with time.

Several noticeable differences to other, more modern releases include:

-Color timing is much brighter, especially in the “Nutcracker Suite” section of the film

-A recreation of the 1940 intermission card is used as a title, as opposed to the 1941 “RKO” titlecard used for the 81-minute cut and all post-2000 releases

-Alternate shots with the orchestra in darkness are used for Taylor’s narration; later cuts restore Taylor’s speaking footage

-Deems Taylor’s narration, which was replaced by an actor’s redub in post-2000 releases of the film due to deteriorated optical soundtracks

-A ~115 minute runtime made to resemble the 1946 release of the film (which restored Toccata and Fugue), as opposed to the 124-minute 1940 Roadshow version

-An end credits sequence, which all other versions lack

This boxset suffers laser rot to some degree due to the glue used; thankfully here, it’s contained to the very beginning of each side. It will be most noticeable in the beginning of the film but each subsequent disc/side has less visual “disc rot”.

Transferred using a DVL-90 player, DMR-ES15 passthrough to an AJA Kona LHe card using the S-video input.

Captured as a raw image sequence which was then ran through QTGMC and exported as a 10-bit 4.2.2 H.264 video through ffmpeg (Placebo setting).

(The film runs at 59.94p to better preserve the LaserDisc image as the high framerate and raw modulated image combine to create a “clearer” picture to the eye.)

Digital audio track piped from the DVL-90 to an X-fi Titanium card, bit-matched and recorded as a 44100Hz 16-bit PCM; the file is directly muxed to the .mkv.

Analogue audio was transferred using the AJA KONA LHe card and exported as a monaural Opus file.

Captions were transferred by way of DVD burning on the Panasonic DMR-ES15, ripped using MakeMKV/MKVCleaver and corrected to the .mkv timing in SubtitleEdit.

Chapter stops and titles are direct from the “Chapter Index” insert in the CAV boxset.

end

So here I had the most authentic looking and sounding version of Fantasia that Disney put out (ie a HQ LD rip), I had a great looking clip of the censored scenes, among other things.

After many attempts of trying and failing to find someone with the necessary skills and patience to insert the scenes back into the LD and patch up the missing LD audio, on comes user Starbond9 of originaltrilogy.com. I sent him all Fantasia related materials I had collected over the years, and he did a fantastic job. To summarize, he reinserted all the “offensive” scenes into the LD, he patched up the missing audio of the stereo/Fantasound track with that of the DVD audio (the next closest thing we have to Fantasound after the LD), and he patched up the missing audio of the mono track with audio from his own vinyl record!

Here is his write up on what he did, and I quote:

start

-Added 5 individual scenes featuring Sunflower and Otica (the centaurette who assists Bacchus)

-Sources on these clips are the audioless HD clips floating around online, color adjusted for LD (adjusted by originaltrilogy.com member Brodnation). The scene with the carpet was from a personal source found on the internet

-3 of said clips were inserted by removing panned/zoomed/and looped existing animations

-2 clips required expanding the video track and inserting a stereo and mono dub as the audio tracks of the movie were physically shortened, see below. (this is also heard on the 1990 CD and Legacy Collection versions of Pastoral)

-Used the DVD stereo audio track as dub source for the missing Fantasound track. These few seconds are NOT Dolby Prologic so listeners with the setting will notice a loss of spatial surround when the two dub spots play. Regular stereo listeners will not notice an issue

-Used a personal copy of a 1961 Mono LP of Pastoral as the dub source for the mono audio track

-Adjusted chapter and subtitles beyond the Pastoral Sunflower clip insert to match the ~8 second shift

-Technical: demuxed individual tracks, remuxed with MKVtoolnix, project assembled in Vegas Pro 14

end

I would like to thank him for his time and effort, and for finally bringing an authentic version of Fantasia that showcases, in all its glory, all three of Fantasound, Deems Taylor’s voice, AND the full video/audio of the Pastoral Symphony.

Hopefully someone can also use these two patched up audio tracks for any future Fantasia projects, such as HD 35mm film scans or edits of the blu ray footage.

Please feel free to release this on Torrent, my only request is you keep this write up along with it.

Post
#1537480
Topic
Fantasia Special Edition Blu Ray Restoration V2.0 (Released)
Time

V2 update to the blu ray edition! Greg Z of originaltrilogy.com did some adjusting on the Sunflower scenes to make them fit in more with the blu ray footage. Further fixed by CMGF. Here is CMGF’s write up:

–start–

This is V2 of the Fantasia uncensored Blu-Ray version, but with the Sunflower segments manually cleaned up by Original Trilogy member Greg Z. Thanks to his work, now these match the Blu Ray footage much better. All I needed to do for this release was to insert the cleaned up segments to V1, mainly because I received this in 16:9 with black bars, and it needed to be converted back to 4:3. Enjoy!

–end–


Yes, folks, CMGF of originaltrilogy.com came through with another fantastic release! This time restoring Fantasia in HD using the blu ray footage as a basis and adding back Fantasound, Deems Taylor’s voice, and the censored Pastoral symphony scenes.

Some might still prefer the early 90s master that the laserdisc and early 2000s Australian DVD use as opposed to the more modern Disney “retouching” (and those restorations will never be replaced), but if someone wants some blu ray quality footage of a restored Fantasia for their HD TV, this option is finally here thanks to him!

Here is his write up, and I quote:

–start–

-This version of Fantasia is the Blu Ray footage, but with the 2 patched laserdisc tracks that were used in previous releases (1990 Fantasound and mono mix) and the Censored scenes added back. Some remarks on it:

-For the Sunflower segments, Thunderbean’s 35mm release has been used. If anyone wants to clean them up so they’d fit better into the digitally restored Blu Ray footage, this can make a V2.

-The video of the shorter intros does not exist on the Blu Ray, so it was sourced from the Australian PAL DVD.

-A scene from the opening is missing on the laserdisc version, so it didn’t sync with the Blu Ray footage. For the Fantasound mix, I had a stereo mag soundtrack of the opening. For the mono mix, I used Thunderbean’s optical mono to replace the partial missing audio from the Laserdisc mono track.

-The audio and video in this release sync a bit differently than in previous releases. This is not an editing mistake - since this is a Blu Ray based version, I used the Blu Ray as a syncing reference rather than the Laserdisc. It made the whole thing more difficult, but it has been done accurately.

–end–

Post
#1524093
Topic
Song Of The South [35mm Restoration V3] (a WIP)
Time

CMGF said:

I thought of contacting Thunderbean on that. Then someone on MySpleen suggested that it should be done by someone who bought the disc. Class316, maybe the original uploader on Cartoon Chaos did?

Somehow it’s an anonymous upload. But I can post something on the comments. What should be said exactly?

Another option would be talking to Thunderbean directly via this thread: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=226492&page=485