Do you have a comparison of the snow cone censorship you’re speaking of? I can’t seem to find one online.
so this is the best way to watch fantasia as of 2022?
Depends on your taste. There’s these 2 restorations as well.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Fantasia-Special-Edition-Blu-Ray-Restoration-V1-0/id/99856
In terms of audio they are all the same. And all are uncensored. So depends which video source you prefer.
But yes these 3 restorations are the best most authentic ways to view Fantasia as of 2022.
Just being silly of course. Wow, all you guys’ work here on OT with these Fantasia’s (TonyWDA’s thread too)… fascinating watching all these releases stepping higher and higher up the quality ladder, all the approaches…! Thanks so much for sharing not only the end results but the (telling the) steps!
I have to agree the levels we have reached exceeded even my dreams and expectations. And yes I believe it should be clear where everything is sourced from and what has been done. Not only so people know what they are downloading and watching, but in this case to also make it clear that these Fantasia releases are not fan edits. They are fan restorations of Walt’s own edits!
Just when you thought the flow of new Fantasia stuff would be extinguished, CMGF of originaltrilogy.com just came through with another amazing contraption and did more incredible work on it. To sum up, he obtained a 1956 scan of Fantasia (which is uncensored by default), restored the aspect ratio back to 4:3, patched up the lens switch scenes with footage from Thunderbean’s 35mm release, and synched it all with the patched laserdisc tracks from previous releases! The result is a mind blowing 35mm release that I didn’t think we’d be getting anytime soon! Here is his write up, starting with a disclaimer:
–start–
DISCLAIMER:
The 35mm footage we used is not from our scan and was supposed to be in originaltrilogy.com’s poita’s Fantasia project. I was given this by a member of originaltrilogy.com who worked with him, and I didn’t plan to release anything, but learning that the project is no longer being worked on, I thought it was a shame if no one would ever be able to view this print. So I contacted Class316 and we decided to let you all see this. All credit for the scan goes to poita and his coworkers.
This is the 1956 release of Fantasia on 35mm, squeezed back to 4:3 and synced with the two patched laserdisc tracks: Fantasound and mono. A minor color correction has been done on it, mainly because of the need to fix some brightness/ contrast issues. Also, the 15-minute intermission was inserted back in, using the opening card from Thunderbean’s 35mm release (which is similar to the intermission card).
We used the 1956 print as the main source for the video, but most of it is stretched to widescreen, and in some scenes there’s a lens switch to move between 4:3 and 2:20. As a result, those scenes were not usable and were replaced with Thunderbean’s 35mm release and color corrected to match the rest of the video.
A scene from the opening is missing on the laserdisc version, so it didn’t sync with the 35mm footage. For the Fantasound mix, I had a stereo mag soundtrack of the opening. For the mono mix, I used Thunderbean’s optical mono to replace the partially missing audio from the Laserdisc mono track.
It took a lot of time to get this one done, so I hope you all enjoy it!
–end–
Glad to see this project alive. It all looks great! If anything is no good I’m glad it’s the sound after all we have enough sources for that.
I hope this project isn’t dead, but in the meantime there are two great releases of Fantasia that exist. Two more than what existed in January 2021.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Fantasia-Special-Edition-Blu-Ray-Restoration-V1-0/id/99856
Yes, folks, CMGF of originaltrilogy.com came through with another fantastic release! This time restoring Fantasia in HD using the blu ray footage as a basis and adding back Fantasound, Deems Taylor’s voice, and the censored Pastoral symphony scenes.
Some might still prefer the early 90s master that the laserdisc and early 2000s Australian DVD use as opposed to the more modern Disney “retouching” (and those restorations will never be replaced), but if someone wants some blu ray quality footage of a restored Fantasia for their HD TV, this option is finally here thanks to him!
Here is his write up, and I quote:
–start–
-This version of Fantasia is the Blu Ray footage, but with the 2 patched laserdisc tracks that were used in previous releases (1990 Fantasound and mono mix) and the Censored scenes added back. Some remarks on it:
-For the Sunflower segments, Thunderbean’s 35mm release has been used. If anyone wants to clean them up so they’d fit better into the digitally restored Blu Ray footage, this can make a V2.
-The video of the shorter intros does not exist on the Blu Ray, so it was sourced from the Australian PAL DVD.
-A scene from the opening is missing on the laserdisc version, so it didn’t sync with the Blu Ray footage. For the Fantasound mix, I had a stereo mag soundtrack of the opening. For the mono mix, I used Thunderbean’s optical mono to replace the partial missing audio from the Laserdisc mono track.
-The audio and video in this release sync a bit differently than in previous releases. This is not an editing mistake - since this is a Blu Ray based version, I used the Blu Ray as a syncing reference rather than the Laserdisc. It made the whole thing more difficult, but it has been done accurately.
–end–
I do know for a fact the episodes won’t be in their original form
A lot of the early episodes after the fire controversy had their original masters altered to remove fire references
It’s also possible Judge himself won’t allow certain moments to be seen again or entire episodes
Some of the new eps have fire references. Why would they remove from the old ones?
it has to do with the episode Comedians, when it aired a family claimed their son set the house on fire because of that episode he saw on TV (though this turned out to be a hoax) and MTV freaked out and censored prior episodes removing fire references or scenes for future broadcasts and apparently they destroyed the uncensored masters, meaning that they “officially” only exist censored now supposedly
since Sporting Goods is its censored version on Paramount+ (iirc it only aired uncensored once), it seems like that certain edits are baked in to the early episodes now
Thank God for the King Turd release. They may not be the best quality but it’s ok. Everything is uncensored.
I do know for a fact the episodes won’t be in their original form
A lot of the early episodes after the fire controversy had their original masters altered to remove fire references
It’s also possible Judge himself won’t allow certain moments to be seen again or entire episodes
Some of the new eps have fire references. Why would they remove from the old ones?
Never saw Fantasia before, I’ll wait for this version to be released before I see it.
I understand what you’re saying but you may be waiting a long while. In the meantime you should consider this release
I’d say this release is the best way to view Fantasia right now.
Fantasia is public domain in Japan now, but this DVD was released in 2000. So I’m pretty sure it is an official copy.
Could have been like 2003. But basically yes.
Well this one surely doesn’t seem like a bootleg or something that would be public domain
https://i.ibb.co/qM8KG7r/20220903-123753.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/1vWCjjY/20220903-123811.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/vz7bv3W/20220903-123855.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/xGt5nv1/20220903-124053.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/2sxFXb8/20220903-124115.jpg
So a Japanese DVD was finally obtained, and it was largely a disappointment.
It is really a weird thing. The intros are just like what we wanted. The shortened intros just like the laserdisc. But the animation is the same as the USA DVD! What the hell?
And not that it has much of an impact on us, but to boot the English track of the DVD doesn’t have any narration. This really seems like more of a bootleg than an official release (and it isn’t a bootleg).
So sadly this won’t help us for the main thing we wanted. To make the restored laserdisc edition even better.
But it helps us in another way. We want to do a 2000 US DVD release with the shortened Deems intro, uncensored Pastoral, and Fantasound. So the NTSC intros here will at least be useful for that.
You fixed Fantasia! This audio sounds how it’s supposed to. I immediately went to Night on Bald Mountain and Ave Maria. It sounds like my vinyl and the rears are the way I remember from 1990 (and as described in accounts of Fantasound). Made me teary…
Thanks.
Glad you like it. In case you haven’t seen it I PM’d you links.
Was this ever gotten?
Yes and no. I know a guy from bluray.com who says he ordered a copy from another place besides ebay and is hoping it’s the right one. Supposed to arrive mid August.
So still waiting. I got no donations for this yet but also not shutting it till I have the rip on hand.
I found one for $45 shipped in “very good” condition. Need a few people who can chip in $5-$10 for this. Essentially it is to upgrade this:
The video is basically the same transfer as the PAL version of early 2000s fantasia but in NTSC.
My guess is that whatever print they had for the mag audio was too physically compromised to pull a stable sound capture. I can tell you from personal experience that Fantasia’s a tough find in good condition w/ the mag stereo mix; more than half the time, the colors turned almost entirely to red, the print has vinegar syndrome, and/or each reel has warped to some degree. The funny thing is that Thunderbean’s release does use the mag mix for the interstitial segments, but that’s it, and those portions also spread the LCR channels across the six-channel field.
Regarding the frames that are entirely red (and other color issues), wouldn’t it be possible to painstakingly fix each of these frames and adjust the color to where the problem is greatly alleviated?
Really hope your project becomes a reality for us all. We need that perfect edition of Disney’s Fantasia. And this may be it.
It is truly insane that more than 20 years after the Internet became a staple of life, the laserdisc restoration releases I spearheaded and Thunderbean’s 35mm release are the only true alternatives to Disney’s official releases. And even those only began to exist in the last couple of years.
For now, this would be the best way to watch Fantasia: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Fantasia-Special-Edition-Laserdisc-Restoration-with-Sunflower-v2-2/id/96261
WOOHOOO! This is released!
Looking for someone who can do some clean up of the censored bits of Thunderbean’s Fantasia so that it can fit better with the HD blu ray footage.
Any takers?
Yes folks, the best got even better! The great CMGF of originaltrilogy.com has redone the whole V2 of Fantasia from the ground up and made the best version of Fantasia that exists even better! He corrected several issues and used the Thunderbean release as a source for the “offensive” scenes as they worked better than what was used before. The only thing here that remains 100% the same from previous releases are the patched/fixed Fantasound 90 and mono audio tracks from the laserdisc!
Here is his write up, and I quote:
start
This version of Fantasia is a redo of the V2 release, featuring a slowed down PAL DVD as video source and a high quality laserdisc Rip for audio. The same V2 release had a framerate problem, and this release is done mostly to fix it. Here is what was done to create it:
PAL DVD was slowed down using TSMuxer.
End titles and opening home video titles from laserdisc were removed, as they were not there in the 40’s theatrical releases of Fantasia.
Audio was synced to the DVD video track. The censored scenes were sourced from the Thunderbean 35mm release, which are already color corrected, to fix the pixelation problem during those scenes in V1/2 of the restoration.
Intermission card from the 2000 NTSC DVD of Fantasia was added, but extended to 15 minutes.
The “Mono-Compatible” second option track of V1/2 was added and synced to match the DVD video as well.
Both tracks and the video were multiplexed using MKVToolNix.
Just like V2, sadly, the video came out a bit interlaced. If it’s bothering you, just turn on the “Deinterlace” option in VLC.
end
Pending better materials, I don’t foresee a better version being made.
V2.1:
Not long after V2 laserdisc edition was out, respawn40 on cartoon chaos released the blu ray of Thunderbean’s 35mm scan in 720p. They used an existing source to insert the censored bits back and these look better than what we have. CMGF of originaltrilogy.com replaced those scenes in 2.0 with that of Thunderbean’s release, and voila, 2.1!
Here is his write up:
start
Recently the 2nd Class316 Fantasia restoration has been released, and it used an Australian DVD as a video source instead of the old laserdisc. Video-wise they were the same, but for obvious reasons the DVD had better quality and more details. For the censored sunflower segments, Class316 gave me an HD transfer. However, Thunderbean released a 35mm scan of the full uncensored fantasia, and the censored parts had much better colors than the old HD transfer. While the 35mm scan itself has its faults, the sunflower segments look great. So that gave the idea to upgrade V2 release with these. Very oddly, every sunflower segment in the 35mm scan had about 2 missing frames, so I had to slow it down a bit. But no one can notice a 2-frame difference, and it really does look great.
end
Again, I think him for his work. Hoping for more Fantasia projects in the future. Please feel free to release this on Torrent, my only request is you keep this write up along with it.
V2:
Hello everyone, Class316 is back with another awesome Fantasia release!
In 2021 I was excited to finally be able to present to the Internet and the planet Earth an authentic version of Walt Disney’s Fantasia for the first time ever since 1969. As approved by Walt himself! Please see my 2021 write up (bottom of this write up) for info on that if you haven’t read it already (and please do so before reading further).
How do we top that in 2022? Improve the video quality and make it even MORE authentic and accurate to Walt Disney’s theatrical release in 1946.
As already stated in my original write up, the 2000 DVD release’s video does not reflect the original artists work due to Disney’s retouching. The audio is no longer Fantasound, longer (and less preferred) intros are used, and Deems Taylor has been dubbed in said intros.
BUT somehow an oddity that is the PAL DVD exists. The video in this release uses the same video source as the laserdisc, but much better quality! The audio is unfortunately the same audio as its NTSC counterpart, dub and all, but edited town to reflect the shorter intros and even the missing audio in the censored bits of the pastoral symphony (just like its laserdisc predecessor). Not sure how this version exists, but it is a great thing that it does.
AlanGrant from myspleen comes through again and released a rip of the Australian DVD. Here is his write up, and I quote:
start
This is the 2000 Australian “Walt Disney Classics” release of Fantasia. Unlike most other releases, this uses the 2 hour long 1990 home video master, albeit sped up for a PAL frame rate- ending up with a runtime of 1 hour, 54 minutes and 30 seconds. The audio is a butcherization of the already butchered 2000 5.0 audio track (ft. Corey Burton overdubbing Deems Taylor) that has been cut to match.
Several noticeable differences to other, more modern releases include:
-Color timing is much brighter, especially in the “Nutcracker Suite” section of the film
-A recreation of the 1940 intermission card is used as a title, as opposed to the 1941 “RKO” titlecard used for the 81-minute cut and all post-2000 releases
-A ~115 minute runtime made to resemble the 1946 release of the film (which restored Toccata and Fugue), as opposed to the 124-minute 1940 Roadshow version
This is a substantial upgrade to the LaserDisc transfer I did and, even for the small size of the DVD, it looks great. It may or may not be an upscale of an NTSC source- however, since there is no proper release of the 1990 version on DVD format in an NTSC territory, this is the next best thing.
The only processing done was running the DVD through DVD Decrypter.
end
Now with the V1 release we have Starbond9’s patched Fantasound and mono tracks from the laserdisc. So a better quality version of Fantasia was now attainable with DVD quality video and the tracks from V1. On comes CMGF from originaltrilogy.com to tackle this task. Not only did he do a great job in restoring the “offensive” scenes back in the Pastoral Symphony of the PAL DVD, but he made the whole thing even more accurate to Walt’s 1946 approved version by restoring the RKO title card for intermission after the Rite of Spring segment (as seen in the 2000 US DVD and the more recent Blu Ray releases). Here is his full write up on what was done, and I quote:
start
This write-up is presenting the V2 release of Class316’s restoration of Disney’s Fantasia. The purpose of this restoration is to make an authentic version of the film, with the censored scenes, Terry Porter’s recreation of fantasound and Deems Taylor’s own voice. Here’s a list of all the things were done to create this V2 improvement of the restoration:
-The Australian 2000 DVD was converted into a full MKV file to replace the laserdisc video used in the previous version.
-Then, it was slowed down to NTSC.
-Modern titles and end credits were cut off as they were not in the original film.
-The fantasound and mono tracks were sourced from the V1 laserdisc edition, then successfully synced to match the video.
-Censored bits were accurately inserted, sourced from the V1 laserdisc restoration.
-The intermission RKO card, sourced from the 2000 US DVD, was inserted but extended to 15 minutes.
-Some minor pixelation was caused as a result of the slowing-down process at some short, specific parts - However the pixelation was fixed in editing. The two soundtracks were multiplexed using MKVToolNix GUI.
-The video format of this release is a bit interlanced - Most of the time It’s not even visible, but if it bothers you, in VLC just turn on the “deinterlance” option and it goes away.
end
I thank him for this release that improved an already great V1 release. This will exist side by side with V1 in case anyone prefers the rougher laserdisc video. Please feel free to release this on Torrent, my only request is you keep this write up along with it.
V1:
Hello everyone. My username is Class316, and over the years it has bothered me that there was been no authentic version of Fantasia available for viewing (officially or otherwise). Unlike the Original Star Wars Trilogy, Song of the South, and many others, Fantasia never got the same love. So over the years I took it upon myself to find a way to change that.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, I present to you something that is not only long overdue, but also making its Internet debut! Disney’s timeless classic Fantasia with Fantasound, Deems Taylor’s voice, AND all the censored scenes restored!
As most of you may know, in what is probably one of the earliest cases of cartoon censorship in the name of political correctness, the “offensive” scenes from the Pastoral Symphony of Fantasia were cut out in 1969, never to be seen in official form again. Additionally, Fantasound was lost to time.
In the early 90s Disney would recreate Fantasound theatrically in two theaters, one in New York and one in Los Angeles. This would be dubbed as “Fantasound 90”. And this would be the basis of the audio in the VHS, Laserdisc, and soundtrack CD released in the early 90s. Although a few seconds of audio is missing from the Pastoral Symphony of those releases due to the censorship. Regarding the intros, these home releases use the shortened (and generally more preferred) intros by Deems Taylor.
In 2000, Disney released Fantasia on DVD. This was dubbed “original and uncut” on the cover. Was it uncut? Debatable. It PANNED the “offensive” scenes (thus yielding complete audio at least) but it is anything but “original” as Disney blatantly falsely advertised on the front cover. Additionally, unlike the LD, the DVD audio is far gone from Fantasound. To boot, Disney chose to use the longer intros. In itself perhaps not necessarily a bad thing as some might prefer that. But the audio of said intros were so deteriorated that they couldn’t be used. So rather than work with what was still usable, Disney decided to completely dub Deems Taylor’s voice entirely with that of actor Corey Burton.
Here is a youtube comparison of the uncensored Pastoral Symphony segment compared to the modern-day censored versions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyPFibRadto
In 2010 Fantasia was released on blu ray and its audio was even more far gone from Fantasound than the DVD release (and of course retained the dubbing and censorship of the DVD release).
Another “feature” of both the DVD and blu ray releases is the visual “retouching” that Disney is infamous for when it comes to their older films. Meaning the laserdisc more so reflects the work of the original artists than the more modern releases do.
Now there have been projects on the Internet that have restored all the censored scenes back into Fantasia. But all those releases use the DVD or blu ray release as the basis. Meaning there has yet to be a fully authentic version of Fantasia that is available, officially or otherwise. That is up until February 2021!
Over the years I had collected many Fantasia related things, these include but are not limited to:
In December 2018, I was given (by someone who has long disappeared) a great looking HD version of the censored scenes.
In August 2020, Myspleen user AlanGrant released a wonderful rip of the early 90s CAV laserdisc. Here is his write up of it, and I quote:
start
This is the 1990 remaster of Fantasia transferred from the CAV LaserDisc boxset, released in January of 1991. This serves not only as a preservation of the 1990 remaster, but of the LaserDisc itself as this is one of numerous disc sets that has disc rot issues which will intensify with time.
Several noticeable differences to other, more modern releases include:
-Color timing is much brighter, especially in the “Nutcracker Suite” section of the film
-A recreation of the 1940 intermission card is used as a title, as opposed to the 1941 “RKO” titlecard used for the 81-minute cut and all post-2000 releases
-Alternate shots with the orchestra in darkness are used for Taylor’s narration; later cuts restore Taylor’s speaking footage
-Deems Taylor’s narration, which was replaced by an actor’s redub in post-2000 releases of the film due to deteriorated optical soundtracks
-A ~115 minute runtime made to resemble the 1946 release of the film (which restored Toccata and Fugue), as opposed to the 124-minute 1940 Roadshow version
-An end credits sequence, which all other versions lack
This boxset suffers laser rot to some degree due to the glue used; thankfully here, it’s contained to the very beginning of each side. It will be most noticeable in the beginning of the film but each subsequent disc/side has less visual “disc rot”.
Transferred using a DVL-90 player, DMR-ES15 passthrough to an AJA Kona LHe card using the S-video input.
Captured as a raw image sequence which was then ran through QTGMC and exported as a 10-bit 4.2.2 H.264 video through ffmpeg (Placebo setting).
(The film runs at 59.94p to better preserve the LaserDisc image as the high framerate and raw modulated image combine to create a “clearer” picture to the eye.)
Digital audio track piped from the DVL-90 to an X-fi Titanium card, bit-matched and recorded as a 44100Hz 16-bit PCM; the file is directly muxed to the .mkv.
Analogue audio was transferred using the AJA KONA LHe card and exported as a monaural Opus file.
Captions were transferred by way of DVD burning on the Panasonic DMR-ES15, ripped using MakeMKV/MKVCleaver and corrected to the .mkv timing in SubtitleEdit.
Chapter stops and titles are direct from the “Chapter Index” insert in the CAV boxset.
end
So here I had the most authentic looking and sounding version of Fantasia that Disney put out (ie a HQ LD rip), I had a great looking clip of the censored scenes, among other things.
After many attempts of trying and failing to find someone with the necessary skills and patience to insert the scenes back into the LD and patch up the missing LD audio, on comes user Starbond9 of originaltrilogy.com. I sent him all Fantasia related materials I had collected over the years, and he did a fantastic job. To summarize, he reinserted all the “offensive” scenes into the LD, he patched up the missing audio of the stereo/Fantasound track with that of the DVD audio (the next closest thing we have to Fantasound after the LD), and he patched up the missing audio of the mono track with audio from his own vinyl record!
Here is his write up on what he did, and I quote:
start
-Added 5 individual scenes featuring Sunflower and Otica (the centaurette who assists Bacchus)
-Sources on these clips are the audioless HD clips floating around online, color adjusted for LD (adjusted by originaltrilogy.com member Brodnation). The scene with the carpet was from a personal source found on the internet
-3 of said clips were inserted by removing panned/zoomed/and looped existing animations
-2 clips required expanding the video track and inserting a stereo and mono dub as the audio tracks of the movie were physically shortened, see below. (this is also heard on the 1990 CD and Legacy Collection versions of Pastoral)
-Used the DVD stereo audio track as dub source for the missing Fantasound track. These few seconds are NOT Dolby Prologic so listeners with the setting will notice a loss of spatial surround when the two dub spots play. Regular stereo listeners will not notice an issue
-Used a personal copy of a 1961 Mono LP of Pastoral as the dub source for the mono audio track
-Adjusted chapter and subtitles beyond the Pastoral Sunflower clip insert to match the ~8 second shift
-Technical: demuxed individual tracks, remuxed with MKVtoolnix, project assembled in Vegas Pro 14
end
I would like to thank him for his time and effort, and for finally bringing an authentic version of Fantasia that showcases, in all its glory, all three of Fantasound, Deems Taylor’s voice, AND the full video/audio of the Pastoral Symphony.
Hopefully someone can also use these two patched up audio tracks for any future Fantasia projects, such as HD 35mm film scans or edits of the blu ray footage.
Please feel free to release this on Torrent, my only request is you keep this write up along with it.
The original home video release cut a line of a song about rolling a cigarette and painted out all Pecos Bill smoking… Disney restored that?
Btw, did you compare the BD’s audio to the Disney+ rip that is floating around?
Yes that is all on the blu ray. The cigarettes are not painted out, the original line is in the song when he lights the cigarette, it’s all there on both the blu ray footage and blu ray audio. And also the line is there on the DVD track that was used for this release (we actually used your own release that I got from myspleen for the DVD audio).
I did not compare to Disney+ rip. But I saw the whole rip is 700mb so I didn’t bother with it. Should I have?
The audio of the rip according to info on myspleen:
Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC LC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID : A_AAC-2
Duration : 1 h 15 min
Bit rate : 125 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 67.8 MiB (9%)
Title : en / BAMTech audio
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Recently saw Fantasia presented digitally, off what looked to simply be the Blu-ray, theatrically at the TIFF Bell Lightbox in Toronto. The film, of course, was excellent as ever, but visually it really did grate. Can’t wait to see how this project eventually progresses.
Well in the meantime consider the releases I brought out to the Internet. They are uncensored, not digitally retouched, and feature Fantasound.
Go on archive.org and type fantasia restored laserdisc
AFAIK, the Blu-ray is not uncensored.
You’re thinking of Make Mine Music blu ray, which is censored.
Melody Time blu ray is indeed uncensored.
