Chewtobacca

Yeah, the special effects shots were designed for the top and bottom to be cut off.  I doubt that anything like what happened for TOS will ever happen for B5, so I'd settle for decent 4:3 versions.

RedFive said:

Bingowings said:

 Or as George would have us believe Soylent Cyan.

This made my day.

Mine too!  Soylent Cyan is prequel...

Anchorhead said:I still say this is how we will all experience the 1977 theatrical version - à la Soylent Green.

hahahahahaha  Nice one! : )

there were some additions I really didn't like in ROTK

I agree.  The only addition I really miss when I watch the theatrical cut is Gandalf's monologue about the history of Gondor.  I though that was well done.

Harmy said:

Well, it is in the sense that BD is no better in this aspect

I actually think long films do compress to fit on a BD-50 somewhat better than they do onto a DVD-9, so BD is an overall improvement in this respect, but in my opinion it's perceived concerns over PQ because of runtime that make studios split films onto two discs.  It's not really the format.  Personally, I don't have strong feelings either way whenever this issue comes up.

ImperialFighter said:

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that the bastards are planning on yet ANOTHER double dip of these one day...on a single disc each...before they progress onto the eventual 'converted' 3D Blu-rays eventually. 

I hope for another dip too, because I prefer the theatrical cut of FOTR and wish I could have that on BD with the improved transfer.

Films this length can certainly fit on a BD-50.  Studios can't win really.  If they put the films on one disc, some people complain about the bitrate, and if they split them onto separate discs, some people complain about having to change the discs.  Long films were often split onto two discs for DVD too though, so I don't think this is a DVD vs. BD issue.

BloodnoseThePirate said:

That's brilliant!  Give that Wookiee a cigar.

g-force said: Was the question about rebuilding the DVD, or how to prepare for running through Avisynth?

Neither, the purpose of the initial discussion was simply to determine the framerate envisaged by the script, not to duplicate your exact method of demuxing. : )

I haven't used Womble in a while, but when I used to strip the pulldown there were occasionally time code errors in the file that DGPulldown generated, so I used to run the GOP fixer twice: once after demuxing and once after DGPulldown had stripped the pulldown.  It's time consuming, but usually it worked. 

Of course, removing the pulldown used to create problems with videos with non-film material.  That's one reason I don't really use Womble any more.

Doctor M said:  I can't say if g-force did it PROPERLY, but you would have to use PGCDemux.

DVDDecrypter doesn't properly read delays (and celltimes IIRC) from NTSC discs, and just using DGIndex without demuxing the PGC's means you wouldn't be able to properly rebuild the DVD afterwards.

I'd say PGCDemux or nothing.

I'm not sure why you quoted me, but yes that's all true.

Using g-force's method, I make the frame count 174258 after forced film.

Nobody's making things harder.  Demuxing in different ways led to different frame counts, and nobody knew for sure how g-force had done it, so it needed to be established. That's all.

Darth Mallwalker said:  I do see your point about default filename. Using PGCDemux the default name might have been VideoFile.m2v & VideoFile.d2v.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  It seems natural to me to view that line in the script as an indication to load the VOBs straight into DGIndex.  As I don't really use PGCDemux, I didn't think twice about doing that when I was trying out the script.

Darth Mallwalker said:  Nevertheless, the trim() command is the deciding factor IMO.

That's certainly logical.  You're probably right.  All the same, I would like to hear what g-force has to say on this.  I would like to know for certain. :-)

Darth Mallwalker said:

 

Yes 174270 is what you get using Forced Film on the VOB files directly, without using PgcDemux.  However if I'm reading g's script correctly it isn't meant to include PGC_2 first, only PGC_1.

 

So would you use PGCDemux?  I assumed from this line that g-force was loading the VOBs into DGIndex:

Mpeg2Source("C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Desktop\AviSynth Scripts\VTS_03_1.d2v") # <-----Set path

VTS_03_1.d2v is the default name that DGindex gives when you load in the VOBs and make a .d2v.  When I do it this way, I get 174270 with forced film.  I'm confused now lol.

174270 is correct because you're using g-force's script, and he used forced film.

You're right.  I overlooked the possibility that there might be non-film material at the end when comparing the videos.  I was looking at the videos; I should have checked the parsed D2V.  That would explain why there is three frames of difference between ignore pulldown flags and the inverse telecine all the way through.  Thanks!

You're following g-force's script, so don't worry about it.  It's irrelevant really.  I shouldn't have posted it in your thread; it was just that we talking about frames and I was interested, so I checked it.  It's trivial, and I was thinking out loud, so to speak.  Just ignore me. :-)

By the way, all the non-film material occurs in the first hundred frames before the 20th Century Fox logo appears.

That's right yes. 

While we're on the topic, TFM().TDecimate() interestingly gives a frame count of 174269, so it's obviously handling the hard telecined material differently to forced film.

No problem!  Now getting working on ESB. :-D

I get 174270 after forced film.  This is what Avisynth says if I add Info() to the script, and HC Enc says the same when I load the d2v into it.

I make the frame count the same as Darth Mallwalker.  I was just about to post too lol.

The NTSC GOUT is 99.98% film, so there is a tiny amount of hard telecined material.  The total is 174276.  After forced film the total is 174270.

EDIT: Sorry, Darth Mallwalker I thought you said DGIndex befuddled you, but you said PGCDemux.  My mistake!

The numbers that differ by just 1 can be explained by the fact that Avisynth calls the first frame 0 and other programs call the first frame 1.  I don't understand the larger discrepancies.  I load the VOBs into DGIndex and make a d2v straight off, so I seldom use PGCDemux.

SilverWook said:  It would be nice to have the original if only to compare the differences, much like Star Trek fans have the unaired "The Cage" pilot, and the version incorporated into "The Menagerie" two part episode.

That's how I see it too.  I'll have to track down the flipper DVD with The Gathering in 4:3.  It's been a while since I watched it, but I think my version is 16:9.

Wow!  Looks good, especially if it's 4:3.  Good find!