Chewtobacca

kk650 said:  Compared to the hdtv stream i'm looking at that has very strong colour grading all over the place it does IMHO. The EE blu-ray transfer seems more consistant overall in terms of colour to me, like TTT and ROTK, whereas the hdtv stream has most locations with a completely different colour grading to each other. It certainly makes for a very varied film colourwise but consistant in terms of colour its not. I can't think of a single scene from The Two Towers or Return of the King that has anywhere near as strong colour grading as the council of elrond scene in Rivendell on this hdtv stream.

I think we've misunderstood each other.  If you mean that the EE BD of FotR is like the other two in terms of consistency of color, I agree.  If you mean that the colors themselves are alike, I disagree.

I wonder if the whole of your HDTV version was recompressed or if only the parts that were upscaled were.  If it's the latter, it could be useful.  Unfortunately, the alternate takes from the theatrical will have been lost e.g. the approach to Rivendell.

The HDTV cap was the theatrical.  People upscaled scenes from the DVDs and inserted them.  It's the cap that I want to get my hands on.

kk650 said:I believe Fellowship of the Ring was only partly regraded digitally for the theatrical release while the last two films were 100% graded digitally so maybe that's why they changed the colour grading so much for the fotr ee transfer, to make its colours more in line with the others that had been regraded digitally from the start.

I don't think the FOTR EE BD's colors look like the other two films though.

althor1138 said:I'm assuming you mean for Star Wars '97.

Yes.  Sorry.  I should get out of the bad habit of not specifying which film I mean when I'm referring to SW itself.

I must be doing something wrong, but I always check everything twice before uploading.  I'll either upload some more par's or the parts that you need.  It might be later though because I have some things to do atm.

No problem!  Thanks.  What do you use to make the pars?

The pars for the '97 SE of SW are broken.  They point to the archive but cannot repair it.  The following parts are damaged.

298
406
461
581

The HDTV cap is definitely better than the TC BD.  The question is whether or not it looks better than the EE BD with the TC BD's chroma applied.  That depends on whether the DNR on the TC BD was applied to both the chroma and the luma or just to the luma.  I assume that the luma of the EE BD is fine and that it's only the chroma that is problematic.

LSF is what I use too.

EDIT:  Use Analoclean, possibly with LSF, and forget the others.  Is it possible to adjust Analoclean's settings so it is a bit less effective but leaves less ghosting?

@Andrea

I imagine that someone somewhere still has the HDTV caps, but I have only a 720p re-encode of FotR.  Overlaying the chroma might work.  I'm not sure that the cropping is necessarily the same, but you could work round that.

I still think the HDTV broadcast, if it could be found, would be the best source.  Why approximate the original colors when they are present in a good source?  Any glitches could be fixed, and the extended scenes (for those that want them) could be color-corrected and inserted.

This post might interest you.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:The fact that I released test clips as avi instead of mkv was due to the fact that virtualdub save the file as avi

Oh, I knew why: I was simply saying that I'm glad you no longer do. :-)

for the laserdisc soundtrack, of course the final format will be PCM (only converted from 44.1kHz to 48kHz to be BD compliant).

That's good to hear.  If you don't mind, I would appreciate receiving the 44.1 kHz PCM so I can remux to MKV.

I vote unsharpened.

The latest clip looks very clean.  Did you increase the level of noise reduction?  I hate commenting on this sort of thing.  Msycamore and g-force are the ones to ask when it comes to spotting the side-effects of noise reduction.  All I can is that Belle's face looks quite smooth and I think the clip looks a bit blurry.  Sorry, Andrea. I'm little use when it comes to this sort of thing.

I am excited at the prospect of seeing the LD colors again and pleased that you're now putting h.264 clips into MKVs rather than AVIs.  The clips sounds good.  I hope you're using PCM for your release and not AC-3.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:Please apologize if I seemed a bit rude, it was not my intention; I just wanted to explain my point of view. Are we still friends?

That's all right, and we are.  I realize that the BD color-correction is just a tangent and not the point of the thread.  The scene in which Belle discovers the rose sounds like a perfect choice for a sample.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said: but a second version using the laserdisc as color reference could be interesting nevertheless!

It would certainly interest me.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:No, I could crop the BD to match the LD

I thought it would be the other way round, as the LD is 1.66:1 and the BD is cropped to 1.78:1.  "Crop and resize" is what I meant to type, but I assumed that the latter was implied.  I suppose whichever source has more picture information varies from shot to shot.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:the fact is probably due, apart the color differences, to different cropping - LD is 1.66:1 while BD is 1.78:1

Obviously, you could crop the LD to match the BD.  I take your point though.  Your results make me wonder if the 3D would fare any better.

I agree with bkev.  The third shot is the best; the other two are not very good at all.  In fact, I would say that they are the worst results I have seen from your normally excellent ColourMatch filter, Andrea.

If the video was re-encoded with x264, which is very likely, you can easily find the encoding settings by running Mediainfo.  Once you have them, you can easily replicate them, either by using the command line or by recreating them in a GUI.  The latter might be more difficult as some GUIs might not present the user with certain settings.

The unknown element is processing.  If the video has been processed, it's not always easy to work out how and with what settings.

Assuming the video has not been processed and you have access to the same source, it is easy to make an MKV containing video of the same quality as someone else's.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

on the other hand, more different PAL edition could be used to average/median the captures, removing a lot of analog noise inherent of the laserdisc format itself.

This could make your version stand out, as you do seem to have many PAL LD sources on which to draw.  If you use NTSC, I don't see that your version would differ greatly from the captures that althor has already uploaded.  And you'd probably have more fun trying to average out all the PAL versions, so I vote for PAL.

poita said:do you want to see every last jot of detail that was on the neg, or on the IP or do you want to see what the director intended to be on the screen in the cinema.

By this, do you mean things such as detail in dark areas being intentionally lost/crushed?

Harmy said:I do agree that there could be an interest value to seeing a simple reversal of the negative...

We agree on that at least then.

Harmy said: Yes, but an IP is not a simple reversal of the negative, it would already have color-timing applied to it.

That's true.  In that case, I'll retract my statement that I think there's value in seeing what's on the IP with a neutral bulb.  I'd still like to see what "a simple reversal of the negative" would be like though.

CatBus said:Seems we agree on everything!

I don't think so.

Yes. I meant IP.  Obviously, I didn't mean that one would be seeing a negative image.

CatBus said:But I think there is some intangible value to the colors viewed with neutral lighting... ..I'm just not sure what exactly to name that quality.

I agree.  If it were projected with a neutral bulb, then one would see more or less what was on the IP, and there's value in that, at least to me.

CatBus said:  I've found him to be needlessly lenient toward other peoples' work in general, chemical or digital.  But I haven't seen an instance of him failing to see that his own work is revisionist (which is why I specified I trusted his judgment "on his own work, at least").

That's my assessment of RAH too.

As to the color-timing of RotLA, the argument goes round in circles.  I'll concede that the film had a warmer look than the WOWOW broadcast when projected, but that doesn't mean that the BD is not influenced by modern fads in color timing too.

AntcuFaalb said: The geometry issue has been resolved. The true resolution of this beast is 1783x1017. Here's a sample of it on top of the NTSC DVD with opacity down to 50%: http://i.imgur.com/aEBY8Vs.png

Are you using Photoshop to do this?  I always find this sort of thing really finicky and wonder if you have an easier method.