Chewtobacca

Darth Mallwalker said:

Well, one can only lead a horse to water ...

Yes.  While I understand that there is no time to do certain work, why not take advantage of what others have done? Why release with duplicate frames when someone has given you a way to handle them?  Why say that there is no GOUT sync when people are willing and able to help to achieve it?

I appreciate each and every release and do not wish to appear ungrateful. It just seems that the fact that releases have certain unavoidable problems is seen as a reason not to remedy others.

I vote yes to light moderation.  By "light", all I mean is banning those who post almost exclusively to antagonize others.  Such individuals rarely stay for long, but they do spoil things in a way that putting them on "ignore" only partially remedies.

Try delaycut or eac3to.

Wow is right!  The print looks gorgeous.

CatBus, I posted the scripts that you want in the first few posts.  Try those.

althor1138 said:Of course it would be better to encode the video and then mux in the audio later so as to avoid re-encoding but anyway here's how to do it in avisynth: 

PAL=mpeg2source(palgout.d2v).assumefps("ntsc_film",sync_audio=true).killaudio()

NTSC=mpeg2source(ntscgout.d2v)

audiodub(PAL,NTSC)

You don't need sync_audio=true or KillAudio() because MPEG2Source() processes only the video and because the script does not envisage using the PAL audio anyway.  Moreover, "NTSC" needs to point to an audio stream if you want to use AudioDub().

NTSC=WavSource()# or NicAC3Source() or whatever

But as you mentioned, the audio can be added on muxing.  All CatBus needs to do is apply the scripts given earlier in the thread.

Doctor M said:  I'll say that I don't need the unfiltered release.  I don't know about anyone else.

I'm with you.  The improvement that the filtering produces far outweighs any side effects that I can see.

TServo2049 said:  Holy crap, I think that German version might be a straight transfer of a theatrically-timed source.

I'd certainly love to get my hands on it.

For all people get down on the new "teal and orange" Blu-ray transfer, but I am wondering if it's less pure revisionism and more an exaggerated/bastardized version of the theatrical timing.

That's been my suspicion for a while.

So does that mean that the JSC comes from an extremely early source that was made before the negative was damaged?  I'm still as confused as ever about this.

CrazyPierrot said: @The Grand Duke

 :-)  Let's not encourage him either.  :-)

Erik Pancakes said:  The hairy_hen 5.1 doesn't have problems syncing to this? I assumed there would be too many frame differences throughout, especially around the reel changes.

Chewtobacca said:  The new DVD is synced to the GOUT.

I have made a second NTSC DVD-5 – this time from the BD-compatible release with the glitches fixed.  The new DVD is synced to the GOUT.  It has the same AC-3 5.1 track that hairy_hen encoded for my conversion of Harmy's Despecialized Edition 2.0.  PM me if you are interested.

The GOUT simply has more frames than the Renegade Grindhouse edition.

AntcuFaalb said: I'm thinking about spending some time this weekend doing automated analysis of NTSC and PAL GOUT. I want to make sure we've found all of the unintentionally-interlaced frames and that the two are truly in sync after making the changes you suggest, Chewtobacca.

Good!  I appreciate your taking the time to do this and eagerly await your findings.

Harmy said:

OK, so this is something I'm very interested in - what exactly do I have to do in order to keep my projects in perfect sync with hairy hen's audio preservations?

 If you have the PAL GOUT, you might apply the script to it, render a lossless AVI, import it into whatever editing program you are using, and use it as a visual guide.  That's one way.

Spaced Ranger said:  When I checked, it showed a used range of 16-235 rather than the expected 0-255.

Shouldn't the capture and/or the final file have been the full range?

No.  The TV range should be used.  Encoding with the full range would have been a big mistake.

The AR of the sample is indeed messed up though.

^It seems that way.  While I don't much like reddit, I can see why AnctuFaalb chose it.  Perhaps you could do what I have done, which is to register but check reddit less frequently than ot.com.

In that case, I'll have another look at some point to see if I can translate the script into the sort of information that you need.  If I can't find time to look at the Grindhouse release, I'll definitely bear this in mind when the next candidate for GOUT sync comes up.  This sort of thing is probably easier to keep of track if you makes notes as you go.

CatBus said:

So does that mean there is an extra frame at the beginning of some of the PAL versions?  If so, where?

No.  While I realize that you haven't used AviSynth, the script is quite self explanatory.  In the example that althor1138 gave you, DeleteFrame(144053) tells AviSynth to delete frame 144053.  Apart from the change in frame-rate, that is all that is in the script, so what it boils down to is that there is only frame that the PAL GOUT has that the NTSC lacks, so deleting it synchronizes the two.

CatBus said:  EDIT: And for -1's Grindhouse Edition, can anyone convert that into English-ish?  i.e. delete 3 frames starting at NTSC GOUT frame X or timecode Y, etc.

Converting the script into time-codes by looking at it is possible, but it would probably be hard for most people (including me) to visualize.  I assume that you are thinking of synchronizing subtitles to Team Negative 1's release.  It might be better if you applied the script to the video, opened it in VirtualDub, looked at the numbers, and scrolled through the video to those points. 

Working out how to use this sort of information is something that we need to consider.  Let's hope someone thinks of something.

^  Give AnctuFaalb a few more days, and I'm sure he'll get round to it.  He's pretty good with this sort of thing.

Star Wars Chapters: Frame-Numbers

Original Post

althor1138 said:When you say the title card appears on frame 689, I’m assuming that means starting from frame 0?

Yes; AviSynth and VirtualDub call the first frame zero.  I add ShowFrameNumber(scroll=true) to the script because I find it the clearest way to see the frame numbers, but the frame indicator in VirtualDub does the same job.

To ensure that the title card shows comes up on the right frame, one should demux the video before opening it in DGIndex.  (Loading the VOBs straight into DGIndex leads to a different frame count.)  For the NTSC GOUT, the field operation should be set to Forced Film; for the PAL GOUT, it must be set to Honor Pulldown Flags.

RotJ

PAL GOUT

Mpeg2Source()
AssumeFPS(24000,1001)
DuplicateFrame(141781)
DeleteFrame(68664,68665)

4k83

DeleteFrame(68664,68665)

The Star Wars title card appears on frame 689.

ESB

PAL GOUT

Mpeg2Source()
AssumeFPS(24000,1001)
DeleteFrame(150204,150205)

Hairy_hen’s 2020 5.1 track is synced to the slowed-down PAL GOUT. The following script will sync it to the NTSC by crossfading the audio at the appropriate point, to account for the two-frame difference.

First, decode the MLP to W64.

eac3to.exe ESB_hh_5.1_v3.mlp ESB_hh_5.1_v3.w64

Make sure that you have AviSynth+ and VirtualDub2 installed. Download BeHappy, look in the plugins32 folder, and copy NicAudio.dll to your working directory. Open a text editor. Copy in the following script, save it as whatever.avs in your working directory, and open it in VirtualDub2.

LoadPlugin("NicAudio.dll")

blank =
\AudioDub(
\BlankClip(length=179670,
\fps=24000,
\fps_denominator=1001),
\RaWavSource("ESB_hh_5.1_v3.w64",1)
\)

sync=
\Dissolve(
\Trim(blank,   0,       150211),
\Trim(blank,   150203,   0),
\11)

return sync

File->Save Audio…->whatever.w64

Team Negative1’s Renegade Grindhouse Edition v1

# This also works for the BD-compatible release.  Use eac3to demux  
# the video.

Loadplugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\Haali\MatroskaSplitter\avss.dll")
ESB=FFmpegSource2("02ESB_Grindhouse_1080p_BD25.mkv") \
.ConvertToYV12()#.ShowFrameNumber(scroll=true)

ESB2= \
Trim(ESB,    0,3096).Loop(12,0,0) ++ \
ESB.Loop(6,30727,30727).Trim(3096,    35385) ++ \
ESB.Loop(3,35381,35381).Trim(35381,    59546) ++ \
ESB.Loop(7,59544,59544).Trim(59544,    59758) ++ \
ESB.Loop(5,59753,59753).Trim(59753,    75034) ++ \
Trim(ESB,75030,75978) ++ \
Trim(ESB,75978,90851) ++ \
ESB.Loop(7,90852,90852) \
.Trim(90852,104633) \
.DuplicateFrame(13781) ++ \
Trim(ESB,104627,121679) ++ \
ESB.Loop(24,121679,121679).Trim(121679, 150156) ++ \
ESB.Loop(11,150134,150134).Trim(150134, 0)

return ESB2

PSB

# Load VTS_01_1.VOB through VTS_01_5.VOB into DGIndex.
# Set the field operation to "Forced Film".
# When prompted to correct the field-order transition, click "Yes".

PSB=Mpeg2Source("PSB.d2v")

PSB2= \
Trim(PSB, 3455, 63023) ++ \
PSB \
.DuplicateFrame(102542, 102543) \
.Loop(5, 63242, 63242) \
.Trim(63127,    125280) \
.FadeOut0(25) ++ \
PSB \
.DeleteFrame(153858, 153859) \
.Trim(125377, 183321)

return PSB2

The Star Wars title card appears on frame 688.

Star Wars

PAL GOUT

Mpeg2Source()
AssumeFPS(24000,1001)
DeleteFrame(144053)

Star.Wars.1977.Silver.Screen.Edition.35mm.v1

sw=AVCSource(“Star.Wars.1977.Silver.Screen.Edition.35mm.v1_track1_und.dga”).assumefps(“ntsc_film”).trim(1005,0)
blank=sw.blankclip()
swp1=sw.trim(0,42592) ++ blank.trim(0,11)#obi-wan reaches down to grab luke’s arm while he’s unconscious
swp2=sw.trim(42593,45140) ++ blank.trim(0,3)#luke and obi-wan sit on rocks by speeder while luke points at r2
swp3=sw.trim(45141,55729) ++ blank.trim(0,4)#cut from tarkin to r2/3po in front of sandcrawler----first frame of r2 is a duplicate(trimmed out) / end of reel?
swp4=sw.trim(55731,56064) ++ blank.trim(0,-1)#obi-wan / “that is what we are meant to believe”—first frame missing
swp5=sw.trim(56065,56904) ++ blank.trim(0,-1)#no luke, wait! / luke runs to speeder to go see owen and beru
swp6=sw.trim(56905,58453) ++ blank.trim(0,3)#tie fighters approach death star/cut to vader approaching leia’s cell
swp7=sw.trim(58454,60732) ++ blank.trim(0,-1)#standing at edge of cliff above mos eisley/cut to scene of mos eisley
swp8=sw.trim(60733,64836) ++ blank.trim(0,-1)#lined up at the bar/luke tugs on bartender’s sleeve
swp9=sw.trim(64837,70477) ++ blank.trim(0,1)#Han and Chewie stand up / Luke and obi-wan walk away from cantina
swp10=sw.trim(70478,78633) ++ blank.trim(0,-1)#Tarkin dismisses officer / Leia led down corridor by guards
swp11=sw.trim(78634,83416) ++ blank.trim(0,3)# Chewie with hands behind head / 3po looks at r2 and suggests a new strategy
swp12=sw.trim(83417,86622) ++ blank.trim(0,57)#That’s good. You’ve taken your first steps into a larger world. / doors open, officer enters in to deliver message to tarkin / End of reel
swp13=sw.trim(86623,113556) ++ blank.trim(0,5)#Dianoga releases Luke / Leia stares / End of reel
swp14=sw.trim(113557,143951) ++ blank.trim(0,4)#man in hangar waves droid into x-wing / overhead shot of x-wing in hangar / End of reel
swp15=sw.trim(143952,0) ++ blank.trim(0,5)
final=swp1 ++ swp2 ++ swp3 ++ swp4 ++ swp5 ++ swp6 ++ swp7 ++ swp8 ++ swp9 ++ swp10
++ swp11 ++ swp12 ++ swp13 ++ swp14 ++ swp15
return(final)

The Star Wars title card appears on frame 689.

A few people have mentioned that it might be nice to have a thread devoted to synchronizing various projects to the NTSC GOUT.  Currently, most of the the relevant information is available, but it is scattered about a bit.

Background Information

In this context, GOUT refers to the bonus discs that came with the Limited Edition DVD release of the OT.  By convention, audio mixes are synchronized to the NTSC GOUT, not the PAL GOUT; therefore, releases of the original theatrical versions of the OT tend to be synchronized to it as well so people can mux in their favorite audio.

Audio

All of hairy_hen’s mixes are already synchronized to the NTSC GOUT.  Belbucus’ audio tracks need the following delay values.

SW: + 1.017s

ESB: + .948s

ROTJ: + 1.015s

I’ll start with scripts that sync the PAL GOUT to the NTSC GOUT and add others as people make them available.

Useful Links

Reel Lengths

Thank you for starting this thread, darth_ender.  Let's hope that it fulfils its intended purpose.