ChainsawAsh

Moth3r said:

Shitfest deleted.

Any more of that crap and there will be bannings.

My apologies, Moth3r - I wasn't in the best of moods at the time.  Won't happen again.

You're most likely right, and if any songs that I try out don't work, I simply won't use them.  But I feel it's worth a try either way.

I have it, it's just buried among the DVDs on the shelf in my basement and I'm too lazy to get it out right now.  They must have used another source to fill in the top and bottom, hence the strange "shadow bars."  I can't think of any other explanation, or any way they could have restored that information if said print is, as Scott said, the only one used/existing.

Well that's just ridiculous ... how could that be?  Perhaps he meant that they're both the workprint, and they combined the two, not that they're the exact same source - some might have been under the impression that they filled in the dead space with the DC or something ...

This is all very strange.

Aleksbmw said:

Ok let me explain, most standard laserdisc players use outdated comb filters to separate chroma (color information) and luma (black and white) in the incoming signal from the optical head. Thus giving poor s-video performance, many users with newer Tv`s that incorporate an onboard 3D comb filter report less dot crawl when using composite. My player does not do this on the direct composite output, instead i feed it into a broadcast grade Video processor with TBC and Motion adaptive 3D comb filter via 75 ohm Bnc connectors.

Awesome, good to know - sounds like this could give us a great capture as a starting point!

Those shots on the right seem to be at closer to 2.55:1 than 2.39:1 (though the ones on the left do look like 70mm's 2.20:1) - I'd have to actually measure them out to check, though.  Strange ... perhaps they had a higher-quality print at 2.55:1, and a lesser-quality one (possibly even a 35mm one) at 2.20:1, and digitally combined the two.

I seem to recall that using s-video with LD's causes unwanted artifacts (dot crawl, etc.) that basically ruin anything gained by using s-video - why use s-video instead of composite, if laserdisc is a composite beast anyway?

I saw that the other day, and almost bought it ... but then decided I wouldn't watch it enough to justify it.  I deliver pizza for $6.55 an hour, for Christ's sake, and I only get 3 to 5 hour shifts 3 to 5 days a week at best ... I don't have the money to waste on things I won't use often.

Yeah, Janskeet, no one in their right mind, now or then, would ever do CG on a film meant to be shown theatrically at less than 1080p (honestly, less than 2K is crazy IMO, though 2K and 1080p are so close the difference is almost negligible).  Even on films like T2 from 1991 would have been done at 2K (I think, but don't quote me on that, I could be wrong).

I doubt it, since the workprint is in 1080p on the Blu-Ray set (I think), and I don't think they would have made a 3/4" tape at that resolution in the 80s.

But a tape issue does seem more likely than anything else we've been able to come up with ...

CompMovieGuy said:

Are you positive about this? I was under the impression that the print used was an original early 80s 70mm workprint and not a restrike of an older print revived. From what I remember, the workprints were owned by theaters and in the 90s they started to show them again, select nights, WB caught wind of this and made the D cut of the movie

But why would a workprint be blown up to 70mm in the first place?  That's what makes no sense to me - it makes more sense if a few theaters wanted to do 70mm screenings, WB ordered new prints struck for said screenings, and someone got the film canisters mixed up and blew up an old workprint to 70mm by mistake, and the mistake wasn't noticed until the screenings had already happened.  I could very easily be wrong, though, that's all just conjecture on my part - I just don't understand why anyone would blow up a workprint to 70mm intentionally.

Is it possible that, since the effects sequences were done in 70mm, it was cheaper to blow the rest of the film up to 70mm than to make a reduction print of the effects down to 35mm, and that's why the screening print of the workprint was 70mm?  That's the only reasoning I can think of.

And you could be right that the 70mm scanner used caused the error - I just think it makes more sense to me that it was an error in making the original blow-up/dupe print/whatever.

Please do the 97 SE at some point - I might hate it, but it's certainly preferable to the 04 SE, and the fact that it's not the original version doesn't mean it shouldn't be preserved in the best possible quality as well.  And the more transfers (especially one from such a badass piece of equipment as yours seems to be), the better!

I don't know where that could have been introduced.  It's possible that it was taken from a print that had been projected, and somehow the aperture gate or an extra-hot bulb damaged the film, but I wouldn't think that would do the exact same thing to every frame in such a uniform manner.  I'd say it's more likely a flaw in the 70mm blow-up process (the workprint was blown up to 70mm by accident and shown in the early nineties - I believe they meant to do a blow-up of the theatrical cut, but something got mixed up and they ended up with the workprint) than anything else - the workprint on the 5-disc set was transferred from one of the last surviving 70mm copies of the workprint that were shown in the early nineties.

It could also be due to the film scanner used to transfer the print to digital, but based on the rest of the set's level of quality I doubt this to be the case.

Thank you much, Darth Mallwalker - downloading right now!  Still wish there was an uncompressed WAV of this (and the 1985 ESB) floating around ...

And I still can't figure out if there was a 1985 remix of ROTJ, or if the 1983 theatrical mix was ever released on LD/VHS ...

Yeah, I've got the DVD briefcase as well, and watched the workprint once, but don't remember noticing those bars ... strange ...

No, in the comic, Rorschach and Dr. M are facing each other with the base to Dr. M's right and Rorschach's left.  I honestly think it'd be easier to erase Dan than to isolate and create an entirely new background.

That's an interesting idea, but then there's a lot of dead space in the frame - I'd prefer to just digitally erase Dan rather than move everybody around.

Of course, if it turns out to be the only (or best) way of doing it, I might be stuck.

I'm also considering doing this edit at 1080p, mainly just to see if I can.  If I end up doing that, this part will be that much more difficult.  But the result will, IMO, be worth it.

So far, here's what I'm planning release-wise:

If 480p Source:

- First release will be a 2GB mp4 or AVI - this will be a "quality control" or "work in progress" sent out to a select few people to see if everything flows properly, which will give me time to get some feedback and make any additional changes
- Second release will be a movie-only (no menus, nothing) DVD-5 (possibly two, with the movie split into two parts if it's too long)
- Third release will be the final DVD-9, with menus and extras, which I will send out with printed disc art and DVD cover (may also end up being two discs, depending on quality and length of the final film)

If 1080p Source:

- First release will be mp4/AVI same as above (480p) to get feedback on editing decisions (this doesn't need to be in HD at all)
- Second release will be 1080p MKV (probably DVD-9 sized for ease of transportation), to make sure that any effects shots that have been done at 1080p resolution still hold up at 1080p - this will only be sent out to certain people and will not be widely distributed or torrented, as the next two releases will cancel it out
- Third release will be a BD-9 (Blu-Ray format on a DVD-9, same as Adywan's AVCHD projects) of the final version, which may or may not be movie-only with no menus
- Fourth release will be a ~14GB 1080p MKV, for those who prefer to watch on their computers
- Fifth release will be a DVD-9, just like as above (menus/extras) - I won't be leaving the SD people behind if I do this in 1080p :-)
- Sixth release will be a BD-25 (single-layer Blu-Ray).  Note that as I don't have a Blu-Ray burner/disc drive and I'm on a MacBook Pro, this might just end up as a disc image or BDMV files on a hard drive that I send to someone who *does* have a Blu-Ray burner
- Seventh release will be a BD-50 (dual-layer Blu-Ray).  I'm doing both a single- and dual-layer Blu-Ray release because not only is having a Blu-Ray burner pretty rare right now, but having dual-layer capacity (and even having those ungodly-expensive dual-layer BD-R's) is even rarer.  But as Wookiegromer has proven, there are people who'd definitely appreciate such a release.  This would also end up being my personal copy.

Note that if I do a 1080p version, in all likelihood the only SD release will be the DVD-9.  That's because I don't want to compromise quality, but I don't want to leave SD people behind.  I understand that a lot of people would rather have a DVD-5, but I'm sure whoever torrents the DVD-9 (I have no idea how to torrent anything) will be able to make a movie-only DVD-5 version as well.  But I'll be focused on the many 1080p versions after the DVD-9 is done.

This is all still theoretical, though - I'm just planning this all out in advance so I know what I'm doing when I get to the editing stage.  And this will get done, I'm not trying to get everyone's hopes up just to forget about this later or anything ... but don't get your hopes up about 1080p because that's a shit-ton more work than 480p, and I'm still not sure whether I want to commit to that.  But it's a possibility.

Yeah, it'll be difficult, but damn it, I'm gonna try.

And I just DL'ed the Cale song and listened to it ... not sure if it'd work well for the credits, but I like the idea of the ending line ("A stronger loving world, to die in") playing as Seymour reaches for Rorschach's journal, cutting off abruptly as the screen cuts to black.

If it comes across as too contrived, I won't use it, but I'll see if I can get it to fit.  Right now, though, it looks like Dylan's Desolation Row (original!) will work best for the ending.

That's what I thought.

I'm not even sure if ROTJ was remixed in 1985 (or 1993 for that matter), and I can't seem to get a straight answer on it.  My assumption would be that there is a 1983 (theatrical) mix and a 1993 (Def. Coll./"Faces") mix, but no 1985 remix.

Then again, it could be that the 1983 (theatrical) mix was never released on home video, and the only ones we have access to are the 1985 and 1993 mixes of Jedi.

Sadly, no one really seems to know.

Any movie made after 1970 in the "scope" (anamorphic) aspect ratio is actually 2.39:1, not 2.35:1 - I believe the standard was changed to make splices less apparent.  Because 2.35:1 was so ingrained in the minds of cinematographers and the like, it's still (usually) called that, even though it's really been 2.39:1 since 1970.

Some DVD cases now say 2.40:1 or 2.4:1, which is rounding up - the only DVD cover I know of that actually says 2.39:1 is Minority Report.

If anyone has DarkJedi's ESB Standard Play and ROTJ "First Issues" discs, could you send me a PM and work out a trade or something?  Those are the LDs that have the original theatrical mixes of each of those films (at least, as far as I can tell) and they're not time-compressed like the ANH/ESB Extended Play discs are (the "First Issue" discs of those).

I don't think there's enough material available to make it into a decent miniseries, but I could look into doing 20- or 30-minute segments.  They wouldn't be the exact same chapters as the graphic novel (obviously, since that would be 5 and a half hours long if each chapter was 20 to 30 minutes), but it might work.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with it being a long film - I have the near-5 hour version of Das Boot and love it to death.  I may not ever watch it in one sitting, but it's still one of my favorite films of all time.  (Never seen the 3.5 hour director's cut or the 2-hour US theatrical version.)

I'll look into less Nixon.  No promises there (it's generally unavoidable).

Definitely more Philip Glass, I'd like to use more Dylan (I'm going to try to find a new spot for The Times They Are A-Changin' since I'm removing the credits).  In re-reading the graphic novel, I've discovered that Desolation Row is quoted in the first chapter, so I'll look into placing it in that section of the film if possible.  If not, so be it.  It'll likely go in the credits, mainly since I can't find that John Cale song (Sanities) fucking anywhere.

Here are the Rorschach's-death-scene shots I'll likely have trouble with, and they all involve removing Dan from the image:

Fang Zei said:

Was the additional dialogue between Padme and Anakin right after his confession scene in the DLP of AOTC or is that also something that was added just for the dvd? I ask because I only saw AOTC in 35mm.

I'm 99% sure that it was in the DLP version (I saw it in DLP in Chicago when it came out).

...

I want to see that scene so badly now ...

Just have 0 second pauses for every track except the first on the disc (2 seconds for track 1, which is required for audio CDs).  That's what I do for all CDs - so figuring out which tracks get 0 seconds and which don't isn't an issue.  It really simplifies everything quite a bit.