ChainsawAsh

Here’s the alternate structure I posted in Ady’s thread:

ChainsawAsh said:

Ideally, for me, the sequence of events would be:

1. Opening crawl, establishing that Luke is finishing his training while Leia and Lando make plans for Han’s rescue upon Luke’s return.
2. Vader arrives at DS2, meets Jerjerrod.
3. Leia as Boushh sells Chewbacca; edit out Threepio or recolor and redub him.
4. Luke and Yoda; Yoda dies.
5. Leia rescues Han and is captured herself; Han in jail with Chewie
6. Luke and Ben convo, probably shortened; Luke leaves Dagobah
7. The Emperor arrives at DS2
8. Reinstate deleted scene of Vader communicating with Luke and Luke building his lightsaber
9. Droids go to Jabba’s, deliver Luke’s message (shortened, add Leia reactions, no “favorite decoration” Han on the wall)
10. Droids conscripted into Jabba’s service
11. Luke arrives at Jabba’s

And the rest of the sequence of events play out more or less as normal.

I also like the proposed idea of moving the Luke/Ben convo to Endor, which might help with the pacing here.

But the big problem with all of this for me is the rebel briefing scene. I’ll play around with that a little this weekend when I do my half-assed proof-of-concept cut.

I think I’m going to do a quick and dirty edit of the structure I posted in the ROTJ:R thread over the weekend to see if it works pacing-wise. I’ll throw it up on Vimeo when I’m done to use as an example in this thread.

Also, thanks for making this thread, Yoda! Hopefully we can keep this discussion out of the ROTJ:R thread from here on out.

I only advocated for the restructuring in here because Adywan had already said he planned on doing more dramatic editing changes for ROTJ, not simply a “what the SE should have been” route he went for ANH and ESB.

But since he’s unambiguously said he won’t be restructuring the beginning in such a way, I agree that the discussion about it no longer belongs in Ady’s thread.

HOWEVER:

I will argue, just once, that the opening crawl should be rewritten. Not necessarily to imply that Luke has already been back to Dagobah, but because the crawl as is feels very anemic compared to ANH and ESB. The first paragraph in particular just feels…off. A little rewording and it could be so much better. I really like Neverar’s opening line.

But again, Ady has said he won’t be doing this - I wanted to bring it up once before dropping it because I think it is a necessary improvement, but it’s Ady’s decision.

As long as he adds another period to the ellipsis at the end (ROTJ is the only one with three and it BUGS THE SHIT OUT OF ME), I’ll be satisfied.

Darth Lucas said:

Wasn’t there an edit that moved the Obi-Wan convo to Endor before Luke turns himself in? I remember that working really well as the environments are similar and it narratively makes more sense for it to be there.

Not that I’m in favor of reordering at all, but the obi wan and dagobah scenes aren’t exactly a linked package; it’s been done well before.

Oh yeah, I remember this being discussed somewhere, somewhen. Was it ever actually done? If so, I’d love to see it.

Finished my first watch. Overall, I loved it! With a little more polish, your edit might replace HAL’s as my definitive ROTS.

I’m going to watch it again and take more specific notes for you - this time was just a “sit back and watch” run, if you will.

General notes: As others have said, the color correction is too contrasty - too much black crush, especially in the opening scenes and a few others (Windu and Anakin before Windu sets off to arrest Palpatine is a good example). Some of the added dialogue is too quiet, and some of the new “interrupts” don’t quite work. The audio seems slightly out of sync at times, too. I’m also not a fan of some of the Artoo stuff you left in the Invisible Hand, and I’m still not sold on the “Roger Roger” bit, but those are personal preference things, not technical feedback.

I love the sequence of events after the rescue of the Chancellor, particularly your placement of the Rise of the Rebellion deleted scenes. I also liked your inclusion of Anakin confessing his dream to Padme, which I didn’t expect.

I, for one, loved the new ending. Personally, I’d cut to black on Vader’s exhale instead of after. Let the exhale SFX play out over black, and after a moment of silence, have the credits fade in.

Oh, and one subtle thing I have to mention that I loved: the spliced in reaction shot of Anakin as Palpatine says “Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy” - it does a great job of showing the conflict still in Anakin at that point.

Overall, amazing work! Just needs a bit of polish to be perfect.

Oh, and thank you for cutting “I have the high ground!” Always hated that.

The ordering of scenes I proposed, in my opinion, won’t completely kill the pacing, especially if you remove - or dramatically shorten - the Obi-Wan scene. I think it also helps to streamline the convoluted rescue attempt plot. It would be a slightly slower opening for a SW movie, but I think it might work. I’m considering doing a quick and dirty edit using that structure myself just to see how it works pacing-wise.

I do not, however, know what to do with the briefing scene if Luke doesn’t take a detour to Dagobah after Tatooine. That will take some thinking and might not be doable.

Overall, while I like the idea of restructuring the beginning, I recognize that it isn’t perfect and may not be feasible with existing footage. A revised crawl like nhoj3 proposed might be a better solution.

Oh, interesting. I didn’t realize that.

Is 25p a similar issue? I know almost all UK TV series (like Doctor Who) have to be 1080i50 on Blu because 25p isn’t doable. Which is why some of the sets (like the DW S1-4 upscales) are slowed down to 24p.

Jani-wan said:

doubleofive said:

If Luke already waited 6-12 months to go back to Yoda, what difference would it make if he went back one week or the next? And doesn’t it make just as much sense for him to have resolved the mission he set himself on before returning to Yoda? “I totally failed to save my friends, and still haven’t saved them, so I’m sure you’re really disappointed in me. Oh, you’re dead.”

I have no idea where this 6-12 months came from.
I think I read 6 month in the book, but Im not sure. It was like 30 years ago.
But it just does not make any sense.

I think current canon says 6 months between ESB and ROTJ.

I get that, but from the tone of the conversation (Luke’s inflection and Yoda’s sigh), I have no problem interpreting that as Luke having asked the question before and Yoda having avoided answering it.

That’s part of why I think the Vader “calling to Luke” thing from the lightsaber building scene is necessary for this to work.

JEDIT: You can also cut Luke using a Force choke completely, which might help with that. And maybe cutting the Obi-Wan conversation, so he’s going from a darker place (confirming his father is Vader and watching his second mentor die) to another darker place (being telepathically tormented by his evil father) with no “certain point of view” convo in between.

Yeah, “own the source material” is a pretty important rule around here…

DominicCobb said:

ROTJ makes no sense in this regard. Yoda makes a pretty big deal about Luke needing to finish his training, to the point where it is very hard to believe the only reason was to shield him from the truth about Vader, which is what ROTJ implies. And sure, Luke learned his lesson after his failure at Cloud City, but I don’t think that’s enough for him to show up acting like a full fledged and wise Jedi Knight at the start of the next film. I think you can try to rationalize it but honestly this is simply just a silly and poorly thought out aspect of the film.

Yup, Dom nailed it.

I mean, I’m not going to bitch and moan if the sequence of events isn’t changed, it’s worked well enough for 34 years for me. I just think such a restructuring would improve the film.

But I also think it won’t work very well without reinstating the Vader calling/Luke building the lightsaber scene, and Ady has already said that the deleted scenes are in too poor of shape for him to use. If someone were skilled enough in restoration to get that scene (cough and Jerjerrod’s conflict cough) to an acceptable level of quality, then I think the restructuring is very much worth considering.

Luke also seems to have gone through at least some more training at the start of ROTJ. He’s much more of a novice during his duel with Vader in ESB. It makes sense that he’d have finished his training with Yoda as soon as he could so he’d be ready for Vader next time.

Ideally, for me, the sequence of events would be:

1. Opening crawl, establishing that Luke is finishing his training while Leia and Lando make plans for Han’s rescue upon Luke’s return.
2. Vader arrives at DS2, meets Jerjerrod.
3. Leia as Boushh sells Chewbacca; edit out Threepio or recolor and redub him.
4. Luke and Yoda; Yoda dies.
5. Leia rescues Han and is captured herself; Han in jail with Chewie
6. Luke and Ben convo, probably shortened; Luke leaves Dagobah
7. The Emperor arrives at DS2
8. Reinstate deleted scene of Vader communicating with Luke and Luke building his lightsaber
9. Droids go to Jabba’s, deliver Luke’s message (shortened, add Leia reactions, no “favorite decoration” Han on the wall)
10. Droids conscripted into Jabba’s service
11. Luke arrives at Jabba’s

And the rest of the sequence of events play out more or less as normal.

Empire has no all-caps in the crawl.

720p24 isn’t part of the Blu-Ray spec, so it has to upscale it to 1080p24 otherwise all you’ll get is 720p60.

I liked a few, but couldn’t tell you which ones (“Andromeda” I think was one).

Yeah, definitely a big disappointment after Plastic Beach (which gave us “Empire Ants,” “Rhinestone Eyes,” and “On Melancholy Hill,” IMO three of the best songs in the Gorillaz catalog), but at least it was better than I feared it would be after “Hallelujah Money” was released.

I was 15 when I joined this forum. Now I’m 28. Jesus…

Anyway:

Wind River (2017)

Well-made and well-acted, but kind of a generic script, and I didn’t think a certain flashback scene just before the climax was particularly necessary. Worth a watch, but if depictions of sexual violence bother you I’d stay away. Or at least leave the theater for a good ~10 minutes once the flashback starts (it’s pretty clear when that is, and by that point in the movie what’s about to happen isn’t really a spoiler).

7/10, probably not the Oscar bait Renner and Olsen were hoping for (though they both gave excellent performances), but solid enough.

IMO, you won’t care or notice if you’ve never seen it.

I think he’s said he wanted to do something different with the torture droid needle at some point too, but yeah, I’m pretty sure everything is pretty set in stone for ANH:R:HD by now.

CarboniteSolo said:

Once Adywan omits the scene with Luke asking Leia if she remembers her real mother in ROTJ: Revisited, then Padme can die in Revenge of the Sith.

Sure, but the whole point of this edit is to improve ROTS while keeping it consistent with the rest current canon, in which Padme unambiguously died in/just after childbirth. There are flashbacks in the Vader comic about her funeral, among other things that require her death in ROTS to occur in order to keep consistency.

Like I said, it’s just unpolished in comparison to the FC, but there’s not a dramatic difference in content.

US TC < International TC < Workprint < DC < FC

bromeo said:

Looks brilliant, Ady! You da man!

Btw does anyone have tips on how to sync subtitles from Project Threepio into Revisited? I mean… is all dialogue the same? Do the scenes last as long as in Despecialized? If that’s the case, I could just move the start time to match Revisited. I need the Finnish ones for my family so they can keep up… and when I’m alone, I always use English ones because there are always things that drown in translation.

ANH:R in its current form has editing/runtime and dialogue changes, so you can’t just change the start time. I know ESB:R has a couple minor dialogue changes, but I’m not sure if the editing changes alter the running time in such a way as to throw off subtitles the same way ANH:R’s changes do. Based on the Battle of Hoth in ESB:R, I’d guess it’s pretty much the same story as ANH:R.

Final Cut is just the Director’s Cut with more polish.

The DC was made from Scott’s notes without his direct involvement. So when they took out the narration, that’s all they did - they didn’t alter the editing to match the fact that there’s now no one talking in the background. The added unicorn dream was also a little haphazardly done.

For the Final Cut, Scott was directly involved, so the editing was tightened during parts where narration was removed (mostly done to match the work print), and the unicorn dream was integrated better. Then Scott decided to fix some other things, like lip sync in one scene, replacing a stunt double’s head with the actual actor in one scene, changing a couple backgrounds for continuity, and a few other little effects fixes.

So yeah, the FC is overall the best version, but it isn’t that different from the DC.

If you want to watch it sooner without waiting, I’d say go ahead and watch the DC.

The Ritty said:

Tell me what Fan edits are really good.

This will probably be the last thing I say as a reply, because you’re being very negative toward everybody and I think it’s very immature that you seem to think your edit is so perfect you’re unwilling to check out any others, BUT I’m going to give you some examples of fanedits that are the cream of the crop in my opinion:

• Adywan’s A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back Revisited (which are both on another level to any other fan edit to date)
• HAL 9000’s Star Wars prequels (Cloak of Deception, The Approaching Storm, Labyrinth of Evil)
• L8wrtr’s Star Wars prequels (whose titles escape me at the moment)
• Uncanny Antman’s Terminator 3: The Coming Storm
• Spence’s Frank Herbert’s Dune (movie edit of the 2000 SciFi channel miniseries)
• TM2YC’s Star Trek: Vengeance (edit of Star Trek Into Darkness)
• Various Hobbit edits are good (Maple Films, l8wrtr, Spence)

And SO many others. That’s just what comes to mind that I’ve personally seen. Spend some time browsing through IFDb (the fanedit database on fanedit.org), organize them by rating (both directions) to see what edits people have responded to positively for examples of what to do and negatively for examples of what not to do.

If you made these for yourself and you’re satisfied with them, then great. But if you want to share them with an established community you have to spend some time acclimating yourself with the community to see what people’s expectations are. If the expectations beyond what you are willing to deal with, that’s fine, but don’t lash out at people in the community for expecting the same shit from you they expect from everyone else.

And maybe be a little more respectful in the future and open to advice and criticism.