That's fine. Keep it in mind for later though. As for "going that far", aren't you the same guy that added a vague rectangular block around the Greedo subs to simulate the compositing elements? You've already gone that far and back again, I'm afraid ;)
In an attempt not to further pollute another thread, I'm referencing MySycamore's post here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/regrading-editing-original-trilogy-using-blu-rays-and-german-hdtv-streams-to-remove-bad-but-not-all-specialised-blu-ray-changes/post/553819/#TopicPost553819
Harmy, if a Laserdisc rip would be helpful to get more "out the window" detail than is available via other sources, PM me. I may not have the best source available, but I've got something.
The entire film is touched, but I'm not sure how consistently. But your eye can adjust for the green cast more easily in some scenes than others, and some scenes already may have had a different color cast originally that the green balanced out. Luckily the other two films are not like this, unfortunately Fellowship is my favorite of them. There's definitely not a single pixel of pure white in the entire Fellowship (unlike the other films, including Fellowship flashbacks), that's been shown elsewhere.
I'll just add before stepping out that Harmy is probably right on the blue/brown saturation issue. My memory is probably hopelessly biased by years of VHS viewing, which I'm sure is less accurate than the GOUT. Still, looks a little weird, even if correct. I can't help feeling it.
You_Too said:
This is what came out when I took that shot into photoshop and let it auto-find the RGB mid-levels and adjusted it to that without changing the white or black balance.
Not sure what I think about the background (looks like a brighter/washed out version of Harmy's there), but I really like the way the foreground looks here. Good work as always.
Harmy said:Mine isn't so much cyan, as it is blue, just like most of the newly surfaced sources seem to indicate (including the GOUT, when you increase saturation). I don't have the GOUT at hand but as I timed the whole film to saturation boosted GOUT, I'm pretty sure that it is how it appeared there - both the blue and the brightness.
I didn't mean to hijack the thread about this, I just have a memory (yes, memory lies, I know) of the snow being closer to white and the mountains being closer to brown. That seems to match what I'd consider the natural color balance. I could very well be wrong, but that doesn't prevent by brain from thinking something's a little off.
Fair point about the highlights, I guess it's a matter of which details you think are important and how many of them can be lost before it's considered a problem. I think a lot of the outdoor Hoth shots are all so close to the line to begin with that further brightening just makes a bad situation worse.
Generally speaking I prefer Harmy's version on the brightness front, except I think all of them are too cyan.
EDIT: I think part of the problem is that the Lowry job boosted contrast everywhere, which means more detail is pushed into the murky and bright borderline areas, subject to clipping if you manipulate them much. If you were working from the actual film frames, you may be able to do more adjustments without losing so much detail. Such is the nature of the beast.
I agree with Harmy's brightness assessment. A good indicator that yours is too bright is simply that so much detail is lost in the blown out whites. If the detailts were meant to be blown out, they wouldn't be on the film in the first place. That's as close as we can get to a statement of intent from the cinematographer.
However, I'd say that BOTH screenshots are too cyan. If you're color-adjusting this scene, I'd cut that back quite a bit.
OK. I can see both sides of including/excluding it, but I lean slightly in favor of including it. It would add the extra icing on the cake if someone shows the DE in an actual theatre (private showing, naturally).
Just a question, not a call to action...
Why is Jedi the only film in the DE's with the PG rating at the end of the credits? Looking at the discussion about spacing variations in the 1977 Star Wars credits, I noticed the rating screen in some of those screens too.
Darth Tater said:
Yes. I just checked the 2006 SE DVD, and it's green in there, so I'm guessing that's one of the changes made along the way.
Well, you know, as long as you're in there blacking out all the detail in Vader's TIE fighter wing, you may as well make the fire green while you're at it. It's hard work trashing a classic.
doubleofive said:Strangest day of class ever.
Context is everything. I had that exact lecture but it came off really well in my heathen class, there was cheering and goat blood smoothies and everything. Maybe the professor recycles material from previous teaching positions?
PM sent.
BigP said:
I have tried moving the file from my pc to my 2TB hard drive but it keeps saying the file is too big. How can this be when the file is only approx. 8gb? How do I get it to play on my ps3??? :(
Some filesystems (i.e. FAT, used frequently for external media for compatibility purposes), have a maximum filesize they can accept. Try reformatting the drive to anything other than FAT.
EDIT: yes, but that would probably break compatibility with the PS3. Just burn it to DVD and be done with it.
I admit up-front that this is just a roundabout way of asking "are we there yet"?
h_h, do you have a rough changelog of what's going into the V2 audio for each of the movies? i.e. "removed SE alien sounds from cantina scene", "slight rotj timing change for pal-based projects", etc.
That's OK. I found a decent price on the NTSC GOUT disc so I'm covered. Yes, it's French even though it's labeled as Spanish.
Harmy said:
If you're talking about the fade in/out with a blur thing, all evidence seems to point toward no such thing ever being there in SW, so I'll probably take it out. I just thought it looked pretty cool. I've seen countless subtitled films theatrically and I remember this effect being there but as it seems it wasn't there in this case, and since we're getting closer and closer to the actual theatrical subs, I think I'll take it out.
I don't see how a fade-in would even be possible using the hand-compositing methods used for Star Wars. The thing that causes subtitle shake also prevents the fade-in from being possible.
Anyone know where I can get the Spanish dub from the NTSC ESB GOUT disc? It turns out Lee Thorogood's Technicolor DVD doesn't have this after all? Just ESB is missing.
Just wanted to add that I drooled on myself. That is all.
I was 7 when Empire came out, and while it was certainly a cool movie I liked a lot, it had a lot of stuff that was hard for a kid to process. Down ending, moral ambiguity, not to mention the sexual tension. Star Wars and Jedi were much more satisfying for kids--the bad guys got beaten and there was a big KABOOM to prove it.
I liked Star Wars better until I had time to grow up and have a better understanding of Empire. Empire is certainly the least kid-friendly of the movies, and when a large chunk of your fans are kids, that means it's not going to be as popular at first. But there's no doubt in my mind it's the best of the movies.
danny_boy said:
(so it was always easier to be impressed when watching such a presentation).
That's the jump I don't make. Yes, theatre sound (even normal stereo theatre sound) sounded better than mono television. But that was EXPECTED, and it wasn't new. Back in '77, when people wanted to watch a movie, they saw it in the theatre, there wasn't even a thought that it would sound like a television unless you went to a drive-in. Now, things are different and people watch movies primarily on their TVs. It's only recently that there's been any expectation of parity between TV and movies, visually or sonically or anything.
But the 70mm Star Wars mix stood out because it was clearly better than even the normal stereo theatre sound. It sounded like people's hi-fi systems. Sure that was impressive, but here's the thing--people's hi-fi systems back in '77 sounded just as good if not better than people's hi-fi systems today. So we're essentially measuring against the same yardstick as they did back then, and people today (like me) are still impressed by it, when comparing it to current sound standards. Maybe we should frame it a different way--what is it about the 1977 70mm track that doesn't impress YOU? What are you comparing it against?
Because really if we're all measuring it against different standards, that can easily explain why one person finds it to be impressive and another doesn't. Let's compare it against the Blu Ray mix for example. Can we all agree it's impressive compared to that?
Read the first post in the thread for download info. Maybe download Star Wars last just in case 2.0 comes out before you need it.
I liked that appropriate credit was given to James Earl Jones.
Nothing else.
Harmy said:
Yeah, in this clip, there's a lot of detail loss due to compression, which I hope to avoid in the final encode. I actually plan to release a DVD9 AVCHD and then also a 15 or so GB mkv. I was even thinking about a BD25 release but since I don't have a BD burner, I don't think I'll do that.
And I'm glad you like the colours, You_Too :-)
An MKV sounds great. Those of us who want a BD25 can demux/remux it ourselves.
Don't panic. I think things have progressed a bit behind the scenes such that we're talking about a delay here and not a complete roadblock anymore. I'd like Harmy to confirm this of course.