Well, that was mostly a '93 change, not an SE change, right? I don't like it either, but if the focus is the SE's...
TV's Frink said:
Stinky-Dinkins said:
Watched it. It looks superb man, top notch work as usual.
C'mon, you can't come back to the forum with such a boring post.
Wrong again, Frink! [/dinkins-voice]
I remember the lead-up to the attack on the Death Star sounding pretty anemic music-wise on the Blus, but it's been a long time and I've been trying to forget how it sounded.
Agreed. Heavily-composited shots look very rough (Mos Eisley being a fine example), and poorly-lit shots as well. But well-lit shots with just sets and actors? Those look pretty good.
Feallan said:
CatBus said:
It's also an interesting idea for distributing fan edits if Disney starts coming down hard on them. Just distribute xdeltas that convert the Blu-rays to the DeEds. Absolutely no infringement.
Someone would upload DeEd to thepiratebay in t=200s
Then they are the ones doing the infringing, who cares? ;)
But, as AntcuFaalb pointed out with his helpful link, even data that does not contain one bit of usable infringing material (such as xdeltas) could likely still be considered a derivative work, so xdeltas don't really solve that problem after all.
Basically it's a differences file, which, when applied to file 1, changes it into file 2. This one converts from DeEd v1 to DeEd v2.
It's also an interesting idea for distributing fan edits if Disney starts coming down hard on them. Just distribute xdeltas that convert the Blu-rays to the DeEds. Absolutely no infringement.
To update everyone on what's cooking for 8.1 (likely timed to match Harmy's Despecialized Jedi 2.0):
- As mentioned earlier, I'm hoping for more progress from Operation Eyestrain. Thai and Japanese still have one movie apiece that are graphical-only
- "Matching" subtitles for Despecialized Jedi 2.0 (the only thing on my to-do list since day one, finally done!)
- Improved Arabic subtitles. I'm diving in and doing this manually, character-by-character, and it is not easy
- CJK subtitles will use different fonts for their graphical subtitles
- Maybe some new languages. Slovak is most likely, but you never know what might come along
- Miscellaneous minor updates, I'm sure
The deal with the CJK subtitles and fonts is interesting. Like I'm sure a lot of Westerners, I believed all I really needed was one good-quality Unicode font and all of my language needs would be met. As it turns out, even with the best-looking Unicode font out there, you're going to run into problems with CJK characters.
As I'm sure you know, Japanese and Korean use characters of Chinese origin in their writing systems. The Unicode standard has a "unified CJK" section where these characters are mapped. The problem is that the characters are often written slightly differently in Simplified Chinese, Traditional Chinese, Japanese, and Korean, even when there is only one shared character defined in Unicode. So if you use one Unicode font for everything, it will look a little off for some CJK text. The solution is to use a different font for each of the four systems, which is what I'll do.
The problem isn't huge, and it's fairly common in the computer age, but there are enough people complaining that the Japanese text on their iPhone looks like it was written by a Chinese speaker, that I figured I'd do my best to avoid annoying people further. I've heard the problem described as being like if someone reversed every R and N while writing English, but maybe not quite that bad. It's still completely readable, but it looks wrong, nobody who knew English would ever write it like that, and it gives the text a vaguely Cyrillic feel.
Just to add, there's a lot of Lucasfilm BS about how the originals looked really bad and that's why they aren't available in any better quality than Laserdisc. This is quite simply a lie designed to peddle the Special Editions, nothing more.
In spite of being derived from some Special Edition sources, I feel that the Despecialized Editions more accurately represent the theatrical experience than anything else out there. If you watch anything based on the Laserdisc masters, they may be technically more accurate in detail (which I understand is important!), but they only represent the theatrical experience if you went to the theatre with some Saran Wrap wrapped around your head a couple of times. It just didn't look like that in theatres.
Beber said:
Harmy said:
Yes, I certainly could do that, which is why I have.
Really? So why is the definition quite less precise and the colors a tad different so that these shots stick out?
Because the 35mm prints he used had lower effective definition and different colors than the Blu-rays, so the matching was imperfect, I'd hazard to guess... and simply using different 35mm projection print scans from an alternate source, as you're suggesting, is unlikely to fix the issue (projection prints do vary, but in general, they have lower effective resolution than interpositives, negatives, and the sort of sources used for Blu-rays, and Negative1's 35mm scans are in no way more magical than other 35mm scans) . Maybe better color matching and blurring up the Blu-ray parts would make it match the 35mm source he used in 2.0 better, but switching to a different 35mm scan will, at best, only marginally improve the edge detail.
EDIT: Sorry, just re-read and saw that you thought he was using GOUT footage. It should suffice to say he wasn't. That's about as good as we're gonna get detail-wise without access to the Lucasfilm vault.
I've been gone all week, so hooray for unintentionally skipping the slightly problematic initial release. I'm eagerly downloading it now. Can't wait to see (and hear) the improvement! Thanks for the gallery, Harmy. This is going to be great!
Looks like Jabba is dubbed in Thai, so just Star Wars needs a special subtitle track to accompany the Thai dub, but none of the others do. Jabba sounds... weird in Thai.
Just verified that our Korean subtitles are the official translations. That should certainly save me some time.
Ryan McAvoy said:
I was editing SW frame-by-frame and it just happened to stop on this one...
Caption Competition! (Or make a meme time, whichever)
Shart.
I believe h_h called his ESB and Jedi mixes "purist" mixes. Not 70mm because we don't even know for sure if 70mm had a different mix for those films (and ESB had different video, so having 70mm audio with 35mm video would be weird), but also no non-original elements included, so possibly faithful to 70mm, but definitely faithful to the original feel.
I now have more concrete information on the Hong Kong Blu-rays. There does not appear to be a Cantonese dub (too bad!), but there is a Thai dub, and some Korean subtitles (among some other subtitle options you can find elsewhere).
The Thai dub voices over the crawl, but does not voice over Greedo (haven't checked Jabba yet), so I'll need to make a subtitle track to accompany the dub, once it's synced.
leecho said:
I was more like a bit dissapointed that it is not the original one, that's all. :-)
The Hun dub on Harmy's Star Wars 2.5 is definitely the original one, not from '93.
My labeling may be off, then. According to the source in my link, the "original" dubs were the 93 ones (and the ones he provided for SW and ESB), so maybe we've got the original one for ESB too, whatever the date is.
leecho said:
CatBus said:
Hungarian is 1993
Nnnoooooooooooooooo... :-)
Yeah, apparently opinions are divided ;)
Our info on these dubs is from here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/International-Audio-including-Voice-Over-Translations/post/590611/#TopicPost590611
In my collection, I have 1993 for SW and ESB, but the later 1995 one for ROTJ, because the 1993 one for ROTJ was considered a bit of a trainwreck by the person who supplied them. It's all Hungarian to me.
From what I can tell from the archive I gave Harmy...
Czech is 1992
Hungarian is 1993
Polish is 1995
I don't know the dates for the rest. Most are GOUT-sourced.
Well apparently Harmy now has access to some bad-ass BD authoring software, which may change things.
...and since we brought it up, seamless branching would work for translated crawls, translated alien subtitling, and, if they exist, translated credits.
Can of worms is now fully opened.
I'm not sure Ukrainian is actually 2011. It's from a DVD Special Edition release, so probably earlier.
I told you to forget it.
They won't. I don't think they exist anymore. They died around the same time as the Prequels.
I came up with something like that while working on a translation, and needing to distract myself with anything but the job at hand:
Tomorrow, I want you to take that trilogy to Harmy and have its alterations erased. That'll be the end of it. It belongs to us now.
I'm certainly excited to hear both tracks!
Also, if since you have access to some very nice pro encoders, I'd be interested in 448k AC3 versions of both your SW 70mm and ESB purist mixes, for friends and family stuck in DVD-land. I've encoded from lossless myself with aften, but I imagine you can squeeze out better quality.
Gogogadget said:
Clue is a bad example because the film was released simultaneously with those multiple endings so there is no 'original' version.
It exactly matches the Star Wars audio mixes in that respect, which makes it a good example.
I think it's pretty clear we're going in circles here. For most of the world, pre-release production details are simply trivia that add insight into the final product, but don't fundamentally change its authenticity. Obviously, we've run into someone for whom pre-release production details fundamentally change the authenticity of the final product. That's fine, but it's clearly an unusual--as in atypical, not wrong--way of looking at things.
