CatBus

FYI – all of the dubs in my personal collection are now available synced to NTSC GOUT (Despecialized, 4K77), and theatrical (4K83), with the exception of Turkish. All future 4Kxx and Despecialized releases will be theatrically synced, but in the meantime, you just need to be careful which audio you use.

The reason Turkish isn’t included is because I’m currently syncing/despecializing a new Turkish dub, which should get rid of the problem with the Emperor scene in ESB. Once that’s done, that new dub will be available synced to both frame standards.

I’m not really in the position to offer money at the moment, but I can offer a testimonial for those who don’t remember You_Too well.

You_Too is a longtime valued member of this community. He doesn’t like to toot his own horn, but he’s contributed in a number of places. He was deeply involved in the color correction of the 720p GOUT upscales. He was responsible for the initial “de-purpled” correction of the Blu-rays, which became the basis for the Despecialized Edition’s Blu-ray footage. He gave me the initial Nordic language translations for Project Threepio, which are still in use today for Norwegian and Danish. And of course he was one of the first out of the door to save the Shire from the green menace of the Extended Edition Blu-rays.

He’s also a really nice guy. There are a lot of, er, strong personalities around here, myself included. But You_Too has a superpower – he’s immune to interpersonal bullshit. He just wants to help, and he delivers. Arguments can be raging all around, and like a spaceship immune to gravity, he just passes right by that black hole without getting sucked in. He’s a peach, a mensch, whatever term you want to use. If you don’t know him, he’s worth getting to know.

For those who don’t want to read a “wall of text”, he badly needs to move to a new apartment, for his and his mother’s well-being. Any help would be appreciated.

There’s a difference between profit and recouping expenses. The 4Kxx project asks for donations to recoup their expenses, just like Harmy. Film restoration isn’t cheap, and I can assure you, neither project is running a profit.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/4k77-released/id/60815

PM sent. Project Threepio will almost certainly be more than you needed in terms of subtitles, but it will be more current and complete than what comes with Despecialized.

I apologize to anyone who downloaded my synced Romanian voiceover dub on my glowing recommendation earlier. It turned out I screwed up the encode (among other things) and it didn’t really represent the quality of that audio very well. I’ll have a better version available shortly.

Sorry, I just have the OT dubs.

Harmy said:

Hi, guys, here’s my new update video:

https://youtu.be/1RBGGB8tgzU

Just so the discussion about frame references doesn’t distract people from seeing your update video, I quoted your link again.

As for the apartment, I’m most impressed by your door-opening ghost. Also, it’s touching to have the big box of tissues ready by the TV, just in case you get overwhelmed 😉

Seriously though, keep safe. I’m glad you at least have avoided COVID thus far.

So say we all (except the carrot business)! Now don’t surprise me with a new theatrically-timed release next week because I’m not ready for that at all.

Thank you, Williarob, that makes things much easier. Harmy, in THAT case I think it’s fair to say that by the time you have something worth releasing, and certainly in the longer term, theatrical frames will be a standard worth pursuing for all three films.

If you commit to going with theatrical frames, I’ll commit to switching all of my sub and audio sources in time to be ready for your next release.

Hey You_Too, it’s good to hear from you. And I think you undervalue your own blanket tint adjustment. While not as good as this, it was still worlds better than the EE Blu-ray, and the best alternative version available for quite some time. Just, you know, Merry’s vest went all orange, that’s all 😉

Havoc n said:

I’m pretty sure 4K77 V2 will change to theatrically sync, but Williarob is probably the best person to to give a definitive answer.

I’ve sent him a PM. Hopefully we’ll know soon.

If 4K77 does indeed have plans to change, it would make this decision less convoluted. Who could we confirm this with?

So basically it’s currently still a cluster****. Unless we can coordinate a summit of project leads and get everyone to agree to a frame standard, it’s likely to continue to be a mess. Sorry. I know how much of a pain it was just finally arriving at NTSC GOUT after all those PAL GOUT battles.

IMO all of the frame standards under discussion make no difference at all for subtitles. Only the two-frame differences are detectable to me for audio, and I’ve even unfortunately seen evidence that this even matters for some dubs (i.e. German). I’m sure there’s someone out there who can detect a one-frame sync difference for audio, but that’s not me.

As for new tracks, hairy_hen made a new 4K83-synced 5.1 track, which doesn’t sync to DeEd. However, I’m sure he’d be willing to make a GOUT-synced track for a new DeEd. And even if he’s not available, I’ve made a GOUT-synced version of his new 5.1 track and it sounds seamless to me (although I would definitely rather get it from h_h!). So it’s pretty easy to take theatrically-synced audio and convert it, if and when new tracks come along.

4Kxx is a mix of theatrical and GOUT, unfortunately.

4K77 is GOUT-synced, not theatrical. It’s missing a frame at ~1:40:08.
4K83 is theatrical, and it’s different from GOUT by two additional frames at ~47:43.
From what I’ve heard, 4K80 will also be theatrical, which would be different from GOUT by two additional frames at ~1:44:24.

So while a lot of people may say the new frame standard is theatrical, AFAICT no preservation is actually using that standard for the whole trilogy, which is kinda confusing. You’d be the first, which means your tracks still won’t sync with anyone else’s, unless they also change theirs. I’d recommend trying to coordinate with the 4Kxx project – try to convince them of the benefits of using a single frame standard for everything, and if they’re willing to change 4K77, you can change your whole trilogy, and then everything’s happy.

EDIT: And if everyone’s going through the trouble of changing their sync anyway, I may as well plug my own opinion as well – if we’re switching to theatrical, add a 1/2-second padding to the beginning of each film, so that all the HDMI handshake business that happens on a home theater setup doesn’t potentially cut off the beginning of the Fox fanfare.

Yeah, it’s off by a factor of ten 😉

But it’s hard for me to look at 1 2 1 without thinking “gigawatts”, even if the decimal point is in the wrong place.

PM sent, and thanks again for the idea!

Already working on 12.1 – “Gigawatt”

PM sent.

PM sent.

IMO the 6-channel reconstruction folds down to stereo just fine, so it’s quite listenable with two speakers – it’s just not terribly different from the stereo track at that point. So, you know, anything beyond two speakers will get you slightly more than the stereo mix, even if just a bit. But the more the merrier.

Servii said:

I hope Harmy is aware of this, since he’s using the 2019 version as one of his main sources for Despecialized 3.0. I’m sure he’s already accounted for it in some way, though.

I brought it up in his thread. He did not seem inclined to uncrop anything unless it was really egregious, simply because what would be required to blend a 4K80 (or whatever) border around a 19SE frame would be prohibitively difficult & time-consuming for more than a few shots.

That said, I intend to keep tabs on this to ensure that the scene where Leia’s cropped out of a scene where she’s speaking should be considered egregious enough to be worth that effort, even if none of the others are.

JadedSkywalker said:

The 93 is pretty good sonically i just cannot stand it because of the smashing glass in the detention block shootout. I never listened to it again for that reason like nails on a chalkboard it is awful.

Agreed. In terms of sound quality, 93 is the best mix, but it’s one of the two pre-97 revisions containing distinctly non-theatrical elements, and I just can’t bring myself to listen to it.

All the 1977 mixes are authentic-enough original mixes IMO. Although the six-channel mix is a reconstruction, is is very tastefully and expertly done using in-theater recordings as references, and the difference between the original 4.2 mix and the current 5.1 reconstruction should be pretty minor.

“Definitive” really depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re looking for what most 1977 theater-goers heard, that’s the mono mix. If you’re looking for a technology showcase/what the fanciest best-equipped theaters showed, that’s the six-channel mix. The stereo mix is sadly the odd man out – no matter what I consider “definitive”, it never ranks.

In a lot of ways, Star Wars fans fall into two camps – those who want to see the movies exactly as they were in the theater, and those who want to see the movies as if they’d gotten as respectful a Blu-ray release as any other classic film. The former camp tends to favor the 4Kxx releases and the mono mix. The latter camp tends to favor Despecialized and the six-channel mix. Full disclosure: I’m in the latter camp.

PM sent.

PM sent.