Sign In

CatBus

User Group
Members
Join date
18-Aug-2011
Last activity
26-Sep-2020
Posts
5,504

Post History

Post
#1377236
Topic
International Audio (including Voice-Over Translations)
Time

The Romanian bootleg voiceover dub is now synced (Star Wars only) and available for download at the usual place, or you can contact me.

Some background on this, gleaned from Chuck Norris vs Communism, which I highly recommend:

Irina Nistor voiced over more than three thousand foreign films in Romania under Communism, helping make them much more accessible to all Romanians. She accomplished this stunning amount of work because she rarely if ever watched the movies first, and just voiced over the films during her first/only viewing – so the entire process of creating a dubbed master copy of the film, from beginning to end, took her less than two hours!

So it’s a single-voice voiceover, but it’s also distinct in the occasional delay in the voiceover, as she translates the film in realtime (no script). I can’t say the end result has a lot of listening value to those who don’t know Romanian, but it is one of the more historically important dubs we have. And it’s in very good shape.

Post
#1376454
Topic
International Audio (including Voice-Over Translations)
Time

FWIW, I’ve got a few new dubs I’m working with:

  • Cantonese: it’s an SE dub, so it needs to be despecialized. Contrary to my experience with other Hong Kong dubbing of 70’s and 80’s films, this dub is very well executed. I’m actually a little disappointed it’s so well done, but I’m sure I’ll survive. I’m hoping if we release preservations with this dub, we may attract the attention of people with access to the Mandarin dub, which is something I haven’t yet been able to track down. I’ve synced Star Wars, and the other two films are pending.

  • Turkish: I previously had Turkish despecialized dubs, with the Empire dub incomplete. But I now have VHSrips of made-for-TV 1993 dubs. Star Wars and Jedi are in good shape (for VHSrips), but Empire is pretty bad. I’ll likely swap out the Turkish dubs in my collection for these, in part at least. The sound quality isn’t as good, but they’re authentic pre-SE Star Wars. I may stick with the despecialized Empire, and use the VHSrip to fill in the missing dialogue, which will be a little weird having Vader switch voices, but not as weird as it is right now with Vader switching voices and languages. Again, Star Wars is synced, and the others are pending (I may not be able to do much with Empire)

  • Romanian: Anyone here ever see Chuck Norris vs Communism? If not, it’s highly recommended. If so, you’ll recognize the name Irina Nistor. I have a Nistor bootleg voiceover of Star Wars (sadly, not the entire trilogy). Nothing synced yet, but I’m excited about this one and won’t let it slide.

I also have the 1980 theatrical Turkish dub of Star Wars, and I believe the word for this dub is “crazypants”. It steals the title of “Weirdest Dub” from the Tamil dub. Sorry, guys, dubbed Ewoks and rampant heavy breathing just isn’t weird enough. The background is that, like the Soviet-style voiceovers, the Turkish dubbers didn’t get a soundtrack without English voices. But what they chose to do instead of a voiceover was to replace the English dialogue (er, mostly) with Turkish dialogue and random background music and noises. Did you know Leia’s hologram played light jazz? Did you know the Cantina band did a ragtime piano number? No, I bet you did not know these things. But mostly they just use Star Wars theme music over and over (and over and over), but they’ve also got some generic sci-fi synth music in there as well. I can’t say I recommend it for everyone, but it’s certainly awesome in its own way – the voice acting is also very good, and I’ve been told the translation is very good as well.

Post
#1373868
Topic
Preservation of Localized Texts in the Star Wars (1-6) Saga
Time

schorman13 said:

There are many localized crawls available on the Different Blu Ray versions of the first six films, from 2011.

I’m assuming none of these included “theatrical style” subtitles for Greedo/Jabba, correct? i.e. it’s all just a disc subtitle track with some default unstyled font. AFAIK, the only languages that ever would have gotten Greedo subs on the film print were French, German, Italian, Spanish, and Japanese, and I only have seen a couple of these myself. But I suppose the 97SE also had a theatrical run, so it’s possible there were others, if shown theatrically with a dub that didn’t voice over Greedo/Jabba.

Post
#1373231
Topic
Preservation of Localized Texts in the Star Wars (1-6) Saga
Time

The front cover of the Navajo version can be found here:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Star-Wars-Episode-IV-A-New-Hope-Navajo-Limited-Edition-Widescreen/33963129

A discussion here can be found on this forum:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-Episode-IV-A-New-Hope-Special-Navajo-Edition-Official-DVD-Released/id/47569

The problem with the Turkish dub is that the dub was made for the 1997 version, so when released with later edits, the dub of the ESB Vader/Emperor scene is reverted back to the English version (because the dubbed Turkish dialogue no longer matched the altered scene). If there was a complete Turkish dub, it’d have to be from VHS/Laserdisc/TV broadcast of the 1997 version. I’ll PM you for more info.

Post
#1372870
Topic
Preservation of Localized Texts in the Star Wars (1-6) Saga
Time

I believe localized crawls were made for the unaltered original trilogy for German, French, Spanish, Italian, and Japanese. A localized Special Edition home video crawl was made for Navajo (Star Wars only).

I know localized credits exist, but I don’t know for which languages (probably the first five). I don’t know if dubbing credits were included – there was no theatrical dub for ROTJ in Japanese, for example – that was all-subtitled until the later home video dubs were made.

I don’t follow much beyond the unaltered forms of the original trilogy, so there could have been a great deal of movement on this front in the past couple decades.

Also, I would not count on the text in Project Threepio to accurately reflect the localized crawl, if you decide to go digging in there. IIRC, there’s a typo in the localized French crawl which is fixed in the subtitles. But if you want the text for the Navajo crawl, that’s verbatim (sans Episode IV: A New Hope), albeit not in fancy scrolling yellow text.

Also, if you actually have access to complete, non-mangled Original Trilogy (SE is OK) dubs in Hindi, Tamil, Galician, or Turkish, let me know ASAP, as I’m very interested in those – I have all of these, but with some glaring missing sections. Or if you have any other unusual original trilogy dubs I’d be interested in.

Post
#1372138
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

No problem. Long pedantic answers on obscure topics are my specialty!

Both GOUT and theatrical refer to the unadulterated versions of the films. When films were released on home video, it was pretty typical for a few frames to get dropped, most typically at reel changes, but sometimes elsewhere. Honestly it’s not unusual for theatrical showings to also be missing frames at reel changes. Theatrical refers to that perfect set of every single frame ever on any projection prints. GOUT refers to a set of frames used by one of the most common, and most complete home video releases. Even when dealing with the exact same cut of a film, if you use a slightly different set of video frames, this affects sync, thus the terms “GOUT sync” and “theatrical sync”.

GOUT is a frame standard that dates from back when people were ripping Laserdiscs, based on the 1993 Definitive Collection Laserdiscs. These were re-released, with the crawl reverted to its original form, thirteen years later as a DVD bonus disc known around here as the GOUT. There were actually two GOUT standards, NTSC GOUT, and PAL GOUT, and they did not have exactly the same set of frames. If they don’t specify, people usually mean NTSC GOUT. There are nearly thirty years worth of synced audio and subtitles scattered over the Internet all using the GOUT standard, so if you just find some random Star Wars audio track, more likely than not, it’s GOUT-synced.

Theatrical is something we’re pretty sure about at this point, but technically we could still be surprised by an extra frame on some print floating around out there. Based on what we know right now, it goes like this:

Star Wars theatrical = NTSC/PAL GOUT + 1 extra frame
Empire theatrical = same as PAL GOUT, or NTSC GOUT + 2 extra frames
Jedi theatrical = NTSC GOUT + 2 frames, or PAL GOUT + 1 frame

Despecialized is GOUT-synced throughout, although the current Empire sync is off by one frame due to a mistake (if you add a one-frame offset to your audio/subtitle tracks, it goes back to perfect sync). 4K77 is GOUT-synced, and 4K83 is theatrically synced.

One frame is about 42ms, two frames is about 83ms – certainly the visuals from that number of frames are nothing you would notice was missing or not. And for subtitles, that amount of difference is irrelevant as well. Project Threepio is GOUT-synced, but it works fine with 4K83 with no modifications. Audio is another matter. A two-frame difference between audio and video is definitely something I can notice (and I was shocked to discover it’s bad enough I can notice it with dubs as well), but some don’t notice it at all. One frame is probably less than I could notice, but I’m sure others could.

In short, no matter which frame standard you use, you’re getting the original unadulterated cuts of the films. No special edition revisionist nonsense either way. But you can’t mix-and-match between the two standards haphazardly, or some percentage of the audience is going to think the audio’s annoyingly out of sync. IMO the main problem with trying to get people to change from GOUT to theatrical is that the standards are too close. If they were off by a full half-second or something, it would be clear when there was a mismatch. But as it stands, mismatched audio is just too easy to pass off as close enough.

The UHD/D+ versions are synced to some other Special Edition frame standard I don’t know anything about. If it’s not the original versions, I don’t really follow it.

Post
#1370662
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

This is an open call for translation help. I have a handful of lines I’d like to confirm/improve translations for – they are all for “alternate” versions of the subtitles, like for the mono mixes or the 81 crawl, and so on.

I have template files and probably pretty good translations for all supported languages already, but could use some help confirming everything is good/making things a bit better.

I need help with every single language supported by Project Threepio except English (even languages with limited support like Navajo and Hindi).

So far, I’ve gotten assistance with:

  • Polish
  • Turkish
  • Finnish
  • Hebrew
  • American Spanish
  • Swedish
  • Czech
  • Arabic
  • Hungarian

I’ve got help on the way for:

  • French
  • Castilian Spanish

If you know a supported language not already covered and want to help, send me a PM. Again, this is a small job, not an entire film – only about ten lines to translate, and I already have some possibly good enough translations from other sources.

And yes, this does mean the next Project Threepio will support all of the different pre-97 versions of the trilogy.

Post
#1369313
Topic
Info: Mike Verta’s 4K Restoration - May 2020 Livestream
Time

Lots of classic films (My Fair Lady, Lawrence of Arabia, for example), have had partially or completely destroyed negatives and managed to go on to have extraordinary restorations, using IP’s, private collector prints, and so on. That said, the film stock quality for those films was much better than the film stock used for Star Wars and Empire. It’s a matter of will, and that’s the main thing missing at Lucasfilm.