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CatBus

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18-Aug-2011
Last activity
23-Jun-2018
Posts
7275

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Post
#1211854
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

BrightestDayFan2814 said:

If Star Wars OOT subtitles Was Created By Project Threepio, I’ll Prove That Star Wars OOT subtitles Was Trade Gothic Bold or Trade Gothic Bold Condensed #20

Not sure how to parse that, but the font used for the Greedo/Jabba subs was definitely in the Trade Gothic/Franklin Gothic/News Gothic family as you said. But it wasn’t a digital font, so you can’t get an exact match today as a digital font. Project Threepio does attempt to make an approximation of this font available in digital form, and it is derived from the Trade Gothic/Franklin Gothic/News Gothic family. The trick is, there are small differences from scene to scene in the font (particularly kerning, which was done by hand), so you actually can’t make a digital font that matches every subtitle in the OOT. Project Threepio’s fonts attempt to find a middle-of-the road approximation that matches the middle ideal between all these differences. You’re welcome to create a better approximation – mine’s certainly not perfect, but it’s close enough for the purposes of this project. I feel the Project Threepio-provided fonts are better than both Trade Gothic Bold and Trade Gothic Bold Condensed #20, but at some point “better” is subjective.

Post
#1211774
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

PM sent.

I wouldn’t go as far as to say “awesome”, but I think it’s nice to finally get away from Arial, which as oojason pointed out, has a bit of a reputation for cheap and sloppy subtitle productions (it also has some technical issues, it’s not all about being one of the cool kids). Oh, and the screenshots in the first post are all updated with the new font.

Post
#1210792
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

Those are both good ideas, but you do have to tread lightly on the whole legal gray area thing. I may not actually be able to do this for a while, but would gladly accept volunteers to search for volunteers 😉

This discussion should probably continue here, to distinguish it from subtitles:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-films-with-audio-description-Can-anyone-help-out/id/4933/page/1

Post
#1210767
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

Star Wars also has problems (and had at least one SE section as well if I recall, which is weird and I removed it, maybe someone patched it over?). None of them are audio showcases in the least, if you listen carefully and expect to be blown away by an awesome soundtrack. I’m willing to wait YEARS for voice talent so that we can make that happen. What’s a few more? But I don’t want to wait just because nobody knows we need the help.

Post
#1210765
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

Yes, we have all of those (some are SE), and that’s where our scripts came from, by and large. The trick is that the audio quality is actually pretty bad on all of them, and I’ve concluded it’s not worth despecializing them. If you’re watching an audio-only version of Star Wars, a subpar soundtrack seems kinda insulting. Also, some of the voiceovers get stuff just plain wrong or are SE-specific, and I just can’t tolerate that.

My plan? Record an all-new voiceover track (essentially mono), which could then be placed over any track you like. Probably a nice top-quality Laserdisc-based stereo track, but could also be the mono mix or even a 5.1 mix.

EDIT: The discussion on this topic is here for some more history & details.

Post
#1210372
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

Project files have been updated to version 10.1 (codename: “Just Say Noto!”), first post has been updated, please PM me for temporary download links until the files are available at some more permanent locations.

Nearly two years in the making*, Project Threepio 10.1 most noticeably features big cosmetic changes, but it also includes major and minor underlying improvements in several languages. We’re also seeing some payoff from things implemented long ago. The extensive scripting allowed me to swap out fonts with relative ease. Then there’s Operation Eyestrain, which for our newer readers was a painful procedure circa 2014 where volunteers went through images and OCR’d text in Chinese, Japanese, Thai, etc, and manually corrected the text character-by-character – usually without knowing anything at all about the language they were working with. The idea behind it was that if we did a good enough job, we’d attract people who actually knew the languages, and who could then provide further corrections, or even better translations. And sure enough, Project Threepio now has some entirely new translations in both Hebrew and Arabic!

Rough summary of changes from 10.0 to 10.1:

  • Fonts for all graphical subtitles (except matching subs) have been changed to use the Noto family of fonts – decreasing the size, but increasing the weight, which I hope improves readability and visual consistency, while also giving a more polished, professional feel.
  • More improvements to Brazilian Portuguese subtitles (thanks to lucaslslopes)
  • Some Spanish typos fixed (thanks to carlosmon)
  • All-new Arabic translations (ESB and ROTJ only, thanks to RashadShehadeh)
  • All-new Hebrew translations (thanks to ZIPC)
  • Added Turkish “titles” subs to accompany the Turkish dub. These subtitles are designed to work with the complete audio tracks, and the Turkish dub of Empire is still incomplete at the moment, so the section that isn’t dubbed due to missing source material is not subtitled
  • Lots of minor timing adjustments. For example, there were a few places with awkward subtitle breaks, due to me using a “same timing for most languages” approach. German and Indonesian are wordy and require extra subtitle breaks, but most of the other languages needlessly got those same subtitle breaks too. I relaxed this rule a little to make a few subtitles less awkward for the other languages.
  • SDH subtitles have been overhauled and now contain many more “atmospheric” cues – no longer merely those necessary to understand the film. The solid black SDH background has also been replaced with a semitransparent dark background, which is designed to be more inobtrusive without compromising readability. This semitransparency is not available on DVD downscales due to format limitations, so these still use the opaque black background.
  • Scripts, utilities, and instructions have been updated to support 4K projects. Please note that UHD (4K) Blu-rays still use 1080p subtitles, so while I have added instructions about how to burn UHD Blu-rays, you will still need to use 1080p subtitles with them. However, you can now upscale 1080p subtitles to 2160p if needed for some other purpose.
  • The HELP_WANTED file now asks for help with creating a descriptive audio track for the visually impaired. It’s not technically part of Project Threepio, but it is the biggest gap in our overall objective of making these historic films as accessible as possible. We have scripts, we have soundtracks, we have audio editors standing by – what we don’t yet have is the voice talent. Applicants please send me a PM, and also while you’re at it, please be Mark Hamill.

* This doesn’t mean I’ve been busily working on this for two years, just that I made some of these changes a long time ago and you’re just now seeing them. Sorry about that – time flies!

Post
#1209183
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Mrebo said:

CatBus said:

Mrebo said:

CatBus said:

Mrebo said:

I have an ongoing discussion with someone close to me about other people in their life not acting/responding as they would like. I agree those other people can be unreasonable but I stress that we can’t just make people act as we would like them.

Sure, you can’t make Bob in accounting stop wearing that Members Only jacket. But if he sexually harasses someone? Fire his ass. See? You can make a difference! Bob may or may not change his ways, but the people in your life no longer include him.

Depends on the circumstances. If men smile a bit more at you, CatBus, it won’t be so easy. Maybe you don’t mind or maybe it’s horribly objectifying. If it’s the former, then no problem! If you’re walking down the street there’s less control over reactions.

Sexual harassment has two legal yardsticks: quid pro quo (which is usually an unprovably high hurdle, so it’s safe to ignore) and hostile environment. Convincing people smiling is of a nature that it caused a hostile environment is either also a really high hurdle, or else “smiling” isn’t the best term for describing the behavior in question. Either way, go for it. Offending people has never been the issue. Creating a hostile work environment is. The law knows the difference.

You are correct that crimes and civil offenses can happen anywhere. You can get mugged at work or in the street. You can implement security at work to prevent muggings, but on the street you have less control.

The basic principle is sound that others will behave badly and there’s no easy fix and a person might choose to go about things a certain way.

Sure, and there are penalties for when your behavior crosses a line of civil society. That’s reasonable.

Forget the law! Extreme cases are assault and harassment (as legally defined) but that’s not the whole story here. If a man whistles at you on the street, that’s not harassment. If 5 men whistle at you, still no. If a man creeps you out at work for smiling and being friendly and you think it has something to do with you looking good, that’s not legally actionable,

Sure, you’re talking layman’s harassment vs. legal harassment. The thing is, as far as sexual harassment goes, the significant difference to the law is location, not behavior. In a workplace, a behavior is harassment in the legal sense. Outside the workplace, the exact same behavior is harassment in the layman’s sense, just not actionable under (current) law. If the behavior you see in the street fails the legal test in a workplace, I’m not sure you’re going to run into many people calling it harassment.

but all these things are relevant to Peterson’s ill-made argument.

Seems there’s not much difference aside from the codification.

If you’re a person who objects to even minor displays of sexual interest or feel you’re not being taken seriously, you might choose to put yourself together more modestly. Or not. I don’t see anyone demanding or blaming women either way.

It’s not about being offended, it’s about harassment. If Employee A engages in harassing behavior with Employee B and Employee B doesn’t mind, that can still create a hostile work environment for Employee C. Harassment and being offended are not related. For that matter, so are harassment and makeup, or harassment and clothing.

The thought that men are governed by their penises and therefore can’t be expected to behave like decent people is a really convenient lie, and the thought that you have to curb your own behavior simply to avoid setting off a man is similar.

In summary: Do what you like as long as it doesn’t hurt other people. If someone near you is a jerk, it’s because they’re a jerk. If they’re such a jerk that they sexually harass you, it’s not because your bra strap is showing.

Post
#1209169
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Mrebo said:

CatBus said:

Mrebo said:

I have an ongoing discussion with someone close to me about other people in their life not acting/responding as they would like. I agree those other people can be unreasonable but I stress that we can’t just make people act as we would like them.

Sure, you can’t make Bob in accounting stop wearing that Members Only jacket. But if he sexually harasses someone? Fire his ass. See? You can make a difference! Bob may or may not change his ways, but the people in your life no longer include him.

Depends on the circumstances. If men smile a bit more at you, CatBus, it won’t be so easy. Maybe you don’t mind or maybe it’s horribly objectifying. If it’s the former, then no problem! If you’re walking down the street there’s less control over reactions.

Sexual harassment has two legal yardsticks: quid pro quo (which is usually an unprovably high hurdle, so it’s safe to ignore) and hostile environment. Convincing people smiling is of a nature that it caused a hostile environment is either also a really high hurdle, or else “smiling” isn’t the best term for describing the behavior in question. Either way, go for it. Offending people has never been the issue. Creating a hostile work environment is. The law knows the difference.

You are correct that crimes and civil offenses can happen anywhere. You can get mugged at work or in the street. You can implement security at work to prevent muggings, but on the street you have less control.

The basic principle is sound that others will behave badly and there’s no easy fix and a person might choose to go about things a certain way.

Sure, and there are penalties for when your behavior crosses a line of civil society. That’s reasonable.

Post
#1209162
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Mrebo said:

I have an ongoing discussion with someone close to me about other people in their life not acting/responding as they would like. I agree those other people can be unreasonable but I stress that we can’t just make people act as we would like them.

Sure, you can’t make Bob in accounting stop wearing that Members Only jacket. But if he sexually harasses someone? Fire his ass. See? You can make a difference! Bob may or may not change his ways, but the people in your life no longer include him.

Post
#1209112
Topic
4k77 released
Time

Octorox said:

corellian77 said:

NeverarGreat said:

I’d argue that there’s more detail overall in 4K77 than in the Blu-ray. The Blu-ray has been degrained, sharpened, and regrained so that the resulting image is very ‘flat’, meaning that fine details in already in-focus areas are distorted, whereas out-of-focus elements are sharpened. So whereas the impression upon seeing the Blu-ray is that it is sharper, you’re losing the natural depth of field from the original photography. 4K77 retains this.

The most noticeable issue with 4K77 is the inconsistent color grade, but that’s just how it looked on a Technicolor print.

Funny, I was just comparing 4K77 to Despecialized last night, and although there’s more textural detail in Despecialized (visible in characters’ skin, fabrics, etc.), I couldn’t help but feel that the overall image felt “flat” compared to 4K77. Thanks for explaining why this is.

I wonder if there’s a way to achieve more detail by overlaying one over the other.

Well, if you tint one red and the other blue, and then you wear these glasses…

Post
#1208973
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

You are correct! UHD is still 1080p for subtitles, so maybe the urgency isn’t really there. Faithwyn did discover what must be a bug in Cyberlink PowerDVD 16 with 1080p subs on 4K video though.

So maybe 4K subs aren’t actually needed at all (it is just text after all). Nevertheless it’ll be nice to have the capability, should there be a need. I’m thinking there may actually be a use for some of the 35mm theatrical alien subs in native 4K (I’m in the process of grabbing some new ones from 4K77 now). Not so sure about the others except to have them in the Super Awesomest High Resolution for MKV’s. Cause they really do look pretty sharp, when your eyeball is right up against the screen.

But I’ve also been sitting on changes to this project for going on two years, and the changes are certainly significant enough to warrant a release. So a newer version is well overdue, even if the 4K business isn’t really a thing.

Post
#1208726
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

Heh, with 10.1 you’re mostly getting a new font. As for 4K, there will be utilities for upscaling 1080p to 4K for sure, maybe even for rendering your own 4K-native subs if you’re brave. I may even make a separate download package for pre-upscaled 4K subs, but that could be both complicated and enormous. Pre-included 4K-native subs will not be until the version after that, at the earliest.

Post
#1208254
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

I think that mischaracterization comes from timing. Those in favor of gun regulation (or gun bans, etc) are always in favor of them. Those against them are always against them. But there’s this mass of people in the middle who could potentially be convinced. So every time there’s a massacre, people on both sides try to convince the people in the middle that their policies are best.

The pro-gun side sees this surge of effort from the anti-gun side after every massacre and thinks that the massacre caused the policy view, and it’s a gut response, but of course it’s not. The same thing could easily be said for the pro-gun side, who (usually much more successfully) relaxes gun laws every time there’s a massacre. You could say that’s a gut response too, but it’s not. It’s just pushing policies they’ve always believed, using timing for political leverage, that’s all.

Post
#1207679
Topic
How are you planning for the Oppocalypse?
Time

Oppo has a good history of adding features via firmware and just generally being very good on the firmware front, but it’s really unclear to me how long this will continue. I’m not very comfortable buying a product based on what it might someday be able to do, rather than what it can do right now. Then again, this is the last stop on the Oppo line. You’re either getting on here or you’re not getting on.

EDIT: I guess I should add I now have the 203 with the bluraychip.dk hardware region mod and it’s been great.

Post
#1207657
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

Okay, I’m going to make the call. We have a new 4K preservation released out there and I want the current version of this project to support it better, even if not in a 4K-native form.

By this, I mean that the project won’t yet include 2160p subtitles, but it will include instructions for upscaling the 1080p subtitles to 2160p, which will give them their intended look on any 4k player.

So if anyone out there is working on translations, they will not make the cutoff for version 10.1 unless they’re done within about a week!

Post
#1207536
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

Sure, I’d be interested to see those.

I’ve also got a pretty good workaround brewing. The next Project Threepio will at the very least include instructions for how to create 2160p SUP files from the existing 1080p subtitles. They will still be upscaled of course (not as sharp, but for subtitles that’s not as relevant), but then they’ll be native 4K and less likely to have player compatibility issues.

Eventually the plan will be to have native 4K subtitles with everything derived from them, rather than everything being derived from 1080p, as it is now. Honestly I think Project Threepio went through a transition like this before when it was originally 720p-native and the 1080p subs were just upscales.

Another wrinkle in this plan is the 35mm English “alien” subs, which are graphical subs of the Greedo/Jabba lines, literally Photoshopped out of a 35mm scan. As they stand right now, they are 1080p-native. Before Project Threepio could be truly 4K-native, I would really need those in 4K too. We’d need both a completed 4K Star Wars and Jedi 35mm scan for that.

Post
#1207514
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

Well, it’ll be a while before a 4K BR disc is feasible, but a 4K MKV is very doable right now. But I’m sure regular SRT subs will be sufficient for that.

SRT files are never sufficient IMO, but I believe 1080p graphical SUP subs would work in that scenario. It’s a little player-dependent, though, so I’m hesitant to make a blanket statement that this will definitely work.

If people start reporting problems with 1080p subtitles with 4k video, I may accelerate this conversion process.

Post
#1207402
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

Actually anyone can generate graphical subs right now – Project Threepio is more than just the subs, it’s the whole subtitling toolkit I use to create them. Creating the graphical subs does require some technical expertise, computing power, and patience, however. So I do a basic batch that should cover most needs. But there’s utilities in there to re-time them to Puggo and do all kinds of crazy extra things that aren’t provided out of the box. Check out the README, it’s actually pretty comprehensive.

As for speed, well, graphical subtitles are just images, so compare rendering them to rendering a movie (as in rendering images from scratch like Pixar, not processing existing images like applying color correction to an existing image). So a full set of subtitles for all films in all languages is approximately 150,000 images, and right now I render them at 1080p. That’s approximately rendering a full feature-length film of 1080p images, albeit simple ones and not taking up the whole frame. But there’s more to it than that. The software I use to render the text has some quirks I need to work around (I chose it because other software had quirks I could not work around). To avoid aliasing, I actually render the text at 4K, then resize it to 1080p (which means for 4K, I’d render at 8K… yeesh!). Then it attempts this subpixel antialiasing thing which results in a colorful fringe around all the letters (would be good if it aligned to actual subpixels, but it doesn’t), so I convert everything to grayscale and back to erase that. Then there’s the more obvious post-processing – drop shadows and such. And some weird stuff I do for custom line spacing and text justification, and so on. The code is… convoluted. Anyway, it all adds up, and also I’m fully willing to believe I didn’t write the world’s most efficient code. And that maybe my computer is also not a technical marvel of modern computing power. But it’s actually a pretty complicated process.

And compared to how things used to be, it’s great. I used to have to click through every subtitle file in a piece of software, render it, and move on to the next one (I didn’t do as many languages back then). When I slept, nothing got rendered until I woke up again and started clicking through it. Now, I just kick off the process one day, leave the computer alone for eight days, come back, and it’s done. If you just want to render one language instead of all of them, as most people would, it’s actually not bad at all.

But as for 4K, I’m glad to hear we can afford to wait a while at least. I’ll get ready for it, but I can’t say I’m really looking forward to it. 😕

Post
#1207393
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

Most of these translations started as direct OCR’s of official foreign DVD or Blu-ray releases, but many of them have gotten corrections since then and are now significantly different. Some started off as custom translations, like Indonesian and Vietnamese (there never was an official translation in some markets), and some started off as an official translation, but that was completely thrown out and re-done from scratch, like Finnish. But I’d say most are still some mix of official and custom translation.

All the translation work is outsourced to unpaid volunteers, and I pass on the savings to you! I’d say the point where we went over the line into crazyville was Operation Eyestrain (the descent into madness starts right about here). I’m not sure poor Feallan will ever recover. Next to that, it’s really just been incremental changes and an exercise in patience. The first release – six years ago! – was honestly pretty crappy in hindsight, but lots of little changes over time make a big difference.

Post
#1207332
Topic
Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)
Time

So just another seeking feedback thing: we’ve got preservations going on at all sorts of resolutions. Puggo’s doing NTSC DVDs, Harmy’s doing 720p with 1080p on the horizon, and definitely-not-negative1 is doing 4k with likely 1080p downscales.

I really prefer graphical subs and will always pre-render them and include them, but they do inflate the size of the project files. So… which resolutions? I’ve been doing 1080p native, with 720p and NTSC downscales, and that’s gone okay. But the second I start even thinking about 4k, you know what that’s going to do. Not to mention the render times – 1080p takes my poor computer over a week to render all the subtitles.

At the moment, here are my thoughts: eventually 4k native subtitles make sense. You can downscale to any resolution you like from there. At that point in the future, I’d probably do 4k native with 1080p downscales and finally say goodbye to 720p and NTSC. But right now, there are too many projects at those lower resolutions. So I’m thinking once the full DeEd trilogy hits 1080p, I’ll make the switch. In the meantime, I’m pretty sure upscaling 2k subtitles to 4k should look and work just fine*, at least on software players. However, if people are burning UHD discs, they might have to have matching resolutions.

I am currently retooling all my scripts so that they will work with 4k. I just don’t see any particular need to render at that resolution just yet.

* Apparently there are lots of issues with using soft-subtitles on 4k media, due to HDR, where they come out too bright. I don’t believe any of this is related to that.

Post
#1207226
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

This story kinda naturally leaps to conspiracies and coverups, but I’ll humbly submit that there must be a mechanism where law enforcement (likely Mueller, but could “just” be FBI financial crimes unit) can remove/hide extraordinarily sensitive data. Things that could reveal details of an ongoing investigation, expose informants, damage international relations, or all three.

Because no matter how much blatantly illegal activity has already happened with impunity at this point, I really strongly doubt all traces of these financial records have been wiped from all backups and transaction logs. Banks have a thing about data integrity. So if someone did try to cover this up, that was the most boneheaded move to date, and that’s really saying something after what we’ve seen this last year.

Nevertheless, regardless of how you choose to interpret the story, there doesn’t appear to be a way to interpret it in a way that doesn’t indicate something very unusual and illegal happened that someone (either the criminals or law enforcement) felt justified the unprecedented removal of data from the FinCEN database.

Post
#1206773
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

I am kind of surprised. They usually require a few billion dollars in bribes and materials every decade or so in exchange for good behavior. They were due for a good round of diplomacy payoffs.

But then I guess if you refuse to pay $30,000 to a painter even after a judge orders you to do it, how can you be reasonably expected to scrape together a few billion to pay a guy to stop doing anything?

Then again, maybe the proffered bribe wasn’t big enough, in which case this is all just nuclear-age haggling. And the bribe not being big enough does fit these observations…

I realize my first paragraph is a little vague. “They” refers to the North Korean regime, not ours. I apologize for any confusion.