CP3S

Well, you know where the PM button is if you ever need someone to talk to.

Warbler said:

I have been told many times by many different people that free speech does not apply to forums.   Yes, he has the right to think and say anything he wants and not get in trouble with any government,  but that doesn't mean he can say whatever he likes on a forum.   If this was my forum, he'd be gone.   He compared the Bible to Mein Kampf, I find extremely offensive.   If I called him an extremely offensive word for gay people that begins with an f,  would you just say "its ok, Warb has the right to say anything he like.  If Bingo doesn't like it, he can be put Warb on ignore"?

It doesn't apply to forums, because it is a privately owned forum. But the moderator should have no reason to want to stifle it here. Jay has always been very welcoming to the free exchange of ideas, even when he disagrees with them.

You find it extremely offensive that he compared the Bible to Mein Kampf, and both Bingo, plenty of others, and I find some of the stuff in the Bible extremely offensive.

So it goes.

Also, calling someone something extremely belittling is very different. I am sure you are intelligent enough to see the difference.

CP3S said:

but countless people through the centuries have not done so, and have acted on those vile things.

and doing so, they've ignored other parts of the Bible.   

But not ignored others. The Bible is still responsible. And homosexuals were being killed thanks to the things written in the Bible long before Jesus' love one another, and he who is without no sin stuff was added onto it. Yet, it is still in there, and people still act on it.

CP3S said:

If you are getting bent out of shape because you feel your God is being belittled, well, along the lines of something you might say, He should have thought of that before He put that vile stuff in His book.*

I'll tell you what I am bent out of shape about,  I am sick of the double standard that is applied to Christianity.   If people made comments about Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc, that have been about Christianity, they'd be labeled a bigot.     Can you imagine how offended a Muslim would be if he heard someone compare the Koran to Mein Kampf?    I constantly hear comedians on TV make jokes about Christianity, that they would never get away with making about Islam or other religions.   I am sick and tired of it, I can no longer stand by and see my religion mocked.   I want Christianity shown the respect that I and the rest of you show to other religions.   

Hey, man, you know me well enough to know that I don't hesitate to tear into Islam for its offenses. In fact, you've defended Islam from my charges against it on multiple occasions. I'll gladly call out any other religion that teaches horrible things too.

oh, thanks for called the Bible tripe, very nice of you.  

  I was referring to certain parts of the Bible. 

CP3S said:

Bingowings said:

And somehow you feel confused and upset when I poke fun at your pantomime.

yeah, imagine us getting upset when you make fun of something we hold sacred.   what a shock. 

Yeah, imagine Bingo not having respect for a book that claims the solution to his lifestyle is putting him to death.

if he thinks that is what the Bible says is the solution to his life style, he has clearly missed some passages of the Bible.  (the commandment not to kill, love everyone, if you have sinned you can't cast the first stone . . . )

Okay, but it does say those things. Bingo admitted he rather liked the teachings of Jesus, and is rather fond of the guy (as am I). He also has agreed with you that a lot of people have ignored those parts and focused on listening to some of the less kind things the book as a whole teaches.

CP3S said:

And explicitly states that he is dammed to a lake a fire after he dies because of his orientation;

you forget it also gives him a way out.

Yes, by changing his lifestyle, being straight, and finding Jesus.

BS!

TheBoost said:

So, did anyone do anything fun for Passover?

I like to make gingerbread cookies of Egyptian babies, and bite their heads off. 

LOL. TheBoost just won the threat!

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

 but you walk around with a book a vile as Mein Kampf

you should be banned for this.

Why?? Is freedom of speech and free trade of ideas and opinions no longer sacred? Isn't that the singularly greatest thing about the internet?

Read your book, Warb, it is full of a lot of stuff that is very hateful and harmful to many. You are more than content to ignore those things and figure out ways to make them somehow not count, but countless people through the centuries have not done so, and have acted on those vile things. Put blinders on and look the other way all you want, white wash it and ignore it, but it is still there and it has still done great harm. Just because you are willing to whitewash the harmful stuff and look the other way, doesn't mean those who have been beaten down by it need to step aside and refrain from expressing their opinions on that tripe.

If you are getting bent out of shape because you feel your God is being belittled, well, along the lines of something you might say, He should have thought of that before He put that vile stuff in His book.*

*Or allowed, with His omnipotent power, for men to corrupt His book with that stuff.

Bingowings said:

that has been used as the justification for evil above and beyond any attitude you may have about a man putting his penis in another consenting man.

the people that did that must have overlooked a lot of stuff.   

You overlook a lot of it too.

Bingowings said:

And somehow you feel confused and upset when I poke fun at your pantomime.

yeah, imagine us getting upset when you make fun of something we hold sacred.   what a shock. 

Yeah, imagine Bingo not having respect for a book that claims the solution to his lifestyle is putting him to death. And explicitly states that he is dammed to a lake a fire after he dies because of his orientation; and makes modern, decent, and fairly open minded people disapprove of his lifestyle for reasons they openly admit they have no clue.

darth_ender said:

You forget, Bingo, I wasn't even talking to you initially.  I understand that many have hurt or killed homosexuals in the name of God and with a Bible in their hands.  People have done awful things in the name of God.  I don't justify what they did.  But people have done awful things in the name of just about anything, even seemingly worthy causes, I'm afraid

The difference here being that the Bible in their hands is the thing telling them to do it.

Bingowings said:

thrown in your direction month after month for four decades you will earn the entitlement to call me out on having a persecution complex.

There are economic points to be made about Fascism and I'd be prepared to listen to them. But for obvious reasons I would be uncomfortable hanging with a devotee of Hitler.

You and Warb sound like nice guys but you walk around with a book a vile as Mein Kampf that has been used as the justification for evil above and beyond any attitude you may have about a man putting his penis in another consenting man.

And somehow you feel confused and upset when I poke fun at your pantomime.

I am just poking fun at it.

I'm not throwing bricks at it.

I'm not hanging you for it.

As Bingo has stated here, he is doing you no harm. Relax. Put him on ignore if you need to.

When you talk about your religion and about God, you are merely expressing your beliefs; the exact same thing Bingo is doing now. If reading his beliefs offends you, I recommend the ignore feature. It works really well, so long as you don't feel the need to constantly click to read the posts anyway.

I, for one, like reading Bingo's perspectives.

sean wookie said:

SilverWook said:

Or their account has been hacked...

 

You'd be shitting yourself if you think someone would hack an account from this site.

Happens to Psycho DAYV all the time.

ONE MOOR DAIZ!!!1

What if he wants to be stoned? Dah, even more Christian judgments against lifestyle choices! It is nice to get a little stoned every now and then...

;)

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

I may not approve of homosexuality, but I don't hate homosexuals.

I don't approve of theism, but if you are going to be theist, I will love you anyway. But I'd rather you not (because I don't approve).

Oh yes, and I support your rights as a theist (even though I don't approve. I honestly think theists ought to be allowed to marry one another, and I will always vote in favor of this).

and your point of posting this is?

TV's Frink said:

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

I may not approve of homosexuality, but I don't hate homosexuals.

I don't approve of theism, but if you are going to be theist, I will love you anyway. But I'd rather you not (because I don't approve).

Don't forget that you support his rights (even though you don't approve).

and your point of posting this is?

My point is, I am saying the same thing you are saying. But you feel we are being too harsh on Christianity.

If the other non-Christians here and I were to seriously feel that theism was wrong and to say we disapproved of it, you'd probably find that offensive. You might say something along the lines of, "I am free to believe in and worship whatever God I please!"

Yet you justify saying that homosexuality is wrong, and claim your stance on this shouldn't be taken offense to, because you don't hate them, even though you disapprove of them.

Disapproving is still a judgment, I see no reason not to take offense. Especially since homosexuals have gone through, and are still going through, a lot of hardship thanks to ancient men God writing that it is wrong in their His book.

Right now I have an extremely strained relationship with my family. I am fully supportive and accepting of their theism, but they have a really hard time with the fact that I no longer go to church (I've never told them I don't believe in God. All they know is that I don't go to church. If they knew of my unbelief, and of the way I live my life, I'm not sure they would even talk to me anymore). It sucks, it is a major issue to them, and creates a huge rift between us. I feel really bad about this sometimes, but really the issue is them. I'm perfectly fine with them and love them very much. This is one of the many bad things religion does. It creates issues where they shouldn't exist. It is really sad. And why? Because God said so. At least I am real. It makes me really sad my family misses out on being as close to me as they could because of something that isn't even real.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Spaceballs (1987)

I really don't see why so many people like this parody. I find stuff like "Barf", "Yogurt", and "the Schwartz" far from funny - it's either juvenilely stupid or just plain unfunny. Pizza the Hutt was amusing, though, I'll give it that.

I with you 100%! I've always hated that movie with a bit of a passion. So many people laughs at it and quotes it all the time, maybe I've just never gotten it, maybe it is over my head, but through and through I've always found every joke and gag pretty cheap and unamusing. It is like a groaner joke that stretches on for an entire film. 

The Pizza the Hutt joke and the Michigan J. Frog/Alien chestburster bits both gave me a good laugh. I love the Michigan J. Frog/alien bit.

Explain, good sir.

Dur, I've been having a hard time not reading your posts in Eeyore's voice lately.

Are you alright?

Wow, really? Trooperman, you're claiming that Pope Francis is actually Jesus? Isn't that kind of blasphemous? I feel like if I were a Christian, someone claiming that the new Pope was Jesus would be kind of offensive to me.

But cool, let's play ball!

Why, exactly, do you feel that the new Pope is Jesus? I am sure you have a really intriguing reason.

I wonder if you also have theories about how my "Demonic Ewok" title and the fact that I made the 666th post in the religion thread while talking about my demonic Ewokism, means that I am actually a demon (or being used as a tool of evil for one).

TV's Frink said:

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

I may not approve of homosexuality, but I don't hate homosexuals.

I don't approve of theism, but if you are going to be theist, I will love you anyway. But I'd rather you not (because I don't approve).

Oh yes, and I support your rights as a theist (even though I don't approve. I honestly think theist ought to be allowed to marry one another, and I will always vote in favor of this).

Don't forget that you support his rights (even though you don't approve).

Fixed.

A very close friend of mine is what would be called an "evangelical atheist". While I have typically been content with the live and let live philosophy in my own atheism, he has been trying to convince me of the merits of evangelical atheism, and I think he has some very good points. 

Warbler said:

As to what makes it bad,  I really am not sure.   My religion says its a sin.   Maybe it is that it might be unnatural or that maybe sex should be about procreation and that can't happen naturally between gays.   Just so you know, saying this stuff leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. 

"My religion says its a sin."

Here is one good example of why my friend is beginning to win me over in his evangelical atheist thinking. Statements like this are kind of scary. "It is bad, I don't know what makes it bad, but God says it is bad, so it is bad". This ancient book written by backwards people thousands of years ago claims something is bad, and you end up with modern people who should by now know better believing it is bad... even though they have no clue why it is bad.

You can bet all the hatred and persecution (and plain old disapproval) homosexuals have gone through in recent years, and are still going through now, wouldn't exist, or at least not on the scale it does, if Christianity didn't teach that it was wrong.

I am very happy you said it leaves a bad taste in your mouth saying that stuff, Warb. It shows you are wiser than that, and capable of thinking on your own. Rather than just going along with what ignorant men who died a very long time ago have written in the name of some entity you have never seen, heard, or met.

Warbler said:

I may not approve of homosexuality, but I don't hate homosexuals.

I don't approve of theism, but if you are going to be theist, I will love you anyway. But I'd rather you not (because I don't approve).

Oh yes, and I support your rights as a theist (even though I don't approve. I honestly think theists ought to be allowed to marry one another, and I will always vote in favor of this).

Trooperman said:

It is unassailable.

Mine too! Well, I very clearly remember I used to say and believe it was.

CP3S said:

Once we got the new forum software and could upload our own avatars, I immediately uploaded the same old tacky avatar and continued to use it for the longest time.

How interesting.

Why is the part you quoted particularly interesting to you?

You can handle it! It is totally worth watching. Every time I try to get someone to watch it with me, it is a fight to get them to sit down and commit to it, but once it gets going they always have a great time, and go on to try to talk their friends into watching it.

xhonzi said:

ONLY I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY DAYS!

THREE!!!

Trooperman said:

CP3S said:

this unlucky 13th year of the 2000's, if those things don't come to pass (as they never do when such predictions are made), will that shake your faith any?

Unlucky for you, friend- not for the rest of us! 

Ah, just bad things for all of us heathens.

So, what makes you think the rapture/second coming is in 2013?

Trooperman said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

The most popular religious affiliation in the most populous country today is "agnostic/atheist".

That is about to change very quickly, my friend. 

Time to get some popcorn, relax, and enjoy the show.  We are in for one heck of a ride this year...

Lol. No it isn't.

So, would you consider deconversion if this time next year the number of atheist and agnostics are still on the rise and this year ends up not being anymore heck of a ride than the last several?

Clearly, you've received some insider information from God regarding some of the bad things he has planned to do to people (in the name of fighting evil and spreading the light, of course) this unlucky 13th year of the 2000's, if those things don't come to pass (as they never do when such predictions are made), will that shake your faith any?

Just curious. I'm really not trying to mock. But I do find the claim you made to be a little bold, and the popcorn and relax part a little alarming (though that is based on an assumption that the "heck of a ride this year" is going to be some sort of calamity, I suppose it could be something wonderful and miraculous that your are expecting).

As for Demonic Ewok: On the old forum software, the avatar uploading feature was broken, so we only had so many pictures to chose from. Since there was only a small pool of avatars, a lot of users all had the same avatars. One of the avatars was an Ewok with photoshopped glowing red eyes. It was pretty awful looking, which I assume is why I had never seen another member using it, and so in the interest of uniqueness, I adopted it as my own. 

Once we got the new forum software and could upload our own avatars, I immediately uploaded the same old tacky avatar and continued to use it for the longest time.

Trooperman said:

TV's Frink said:

Serious question now...if this is the case (and it does make sense to me, btw), what do so many religions have against birth control?

Well, it introduces something man-made and artificial into the sex act, which is natural, which makes it less about sharing with another person and more about self-gratification or mutual masturbation.

I've had lots of sex with condoms, while it is always nice to be in a monogamous relationship with someone you know and trust and can toss the condoms and use some other form of birth control with nothing between you, sex with condoms is still sharing something really incredible and pleasing with another person. I've had plenty of sex that was purely self-gratifying with women I've had no feelings toward, but the self-gratifying aspect of it had nothing to do with the prophylactic between us, but everything to do with the attitudes one of both of us had before the act took place.

Looking back on the best, sharing, and most loving sexual experiences I've had, I can't even remember if a condom was used or not. In the end it isn't important (in that aspect) and has zero bearing on any of that. 

Trooperman said:

Antibiotics are moral because they save people from disease, which is good. 

Condoms save people from disease too! So how are they immoral? In fact, antibiotics run the risk of "super germs" and are totally meddling with the body's natural immunity functions. Condoms just create a barrier preventing/minimizing contact with potential infections baring body fluids. I feel like antibiotics are much bigger offenders at changing the natural way things are suppose to work.

Think about it- through the millenia, why have different peoples from completely different backgrounds, livelihoods, times, and social status turned to God if He didn't exist?

Because the world and the universe is an incredible and complex thing, and up until relatively recently, "magic" was the best answer people could come up with to explain it.

A WIZARD DID IT!

xhonzi said:

CP3S said:

One night, I met this really fun and attractive blond, we hit it off and talked for hours. Eventually we went back to her place, stayed up half the night watching movies, started making out, and things escalated. I woke up beside her the next morning, the sun shining golden on her curly hair and reflecting off the smooth skin of her naked body. I felt overwhelmed with warmth, excitement, happiness, anticipation. As it should be. No guilt. I'd always felt guilt in the past, even when things didn't go anywhere near as far as they had gone the night before. That day I was able to admit to myself that I was agnostic.

God doesn't want people to abstain from sex.  Just the kind of sex that screws up (pun probably not intended) their lives or the lives of any children that might enter into the fray.

Awesome! I think most of my old Mormon friends (grew up in Southeast Idaho, so that was pretty much every friend I had from pre-school through high school) would frown pretty harshly on my promiscuous sex life, but it is nice to know that if there is a God, he may well be okay with it. Nobody's life has been screwed up by it yet, no younglings have accidentally entered the fray, and I am always very safe. 

Forget the Rift!

ONLY FOUR MORE DAYS!!!

Trooperman said:

God is anywhere good is.  Everything good is from God.  Everything bad is from the devil.

But why?

Why would you believe this to be the case? It is so simplistic, and dare I say, silly. It is Saturday morning kids cartoon sort of simplistic (and by saying that, I feel like I am being way too harsh on Saturday morning kids cartoons). And still, why? What reason do you have to believe everything good comes from God, and everything evil comes from the devil? The Bible tells you? As we've seen the last few pages, almost every Christian here takes a very different stance on how seriously to take the Bible. Because you know God exists by this warm fuzzy feeling you get in your heart? Maybe that is just taking comfort in the thought that you have a giant invisible friend who has got your back, and who you can take reassurance that people who do "evil" things will always have to pay in the end.

When I was a little kid, I had an imaginary friend. When I got in fights with other kids at pre-school, or when somebody was picking on me, I'd go off to be by myself and I'd talk to my imaginary friend. We'd tell jokes, and laugh, and together we'd make fun of the kids who were being mean to me. That other kid may have been bigger than me, and totally ripped that waffle block from my hands, but now me and my imaginary buddy were whispering about how weird his nose looks. I got genuine comfort from this. At least I always had him to talk to, at least he always understood me.

At some point I grew up enough to realize an imaginary friend was silly, and that I needed to make real friends rather than retreat to be alone anytime I got uncomfortable. I remember lying in bed talking to my friend and telling him it was time to go. I imagined him slowly, sadly, dramatically riding away on his horse (Yes, he had a horse. I got to ride it sometimes! He had a dog too). As he rode away tears began uncontrollably rolling down my face and my heart felt crushed. I clutched my blanket tightly to my chest and cried myself to sleep.

I was so very small, but I remember this farewell so very clearly. Emotional attachment, feelings of comfort, those things don't mean something is real. I had the advantage of knowing my friend wasn't real, because I made him up myself.

It took me a long time to make the leap from theist to agnostic. It had been hammered into me from a young age. Bible stories at bedtime, Sunday school each week, say your prayers before bedtime and at every meal. I often felt guilty when I'd fall asleep before I finished praying. Sometimes I'd nod off in the middle of my prayer, and then I'd apologize and start over. It seemed unspeakably rude to nod off while talking to the creator and ruler of the Universe.

I spent a period of time still being a "theist" while not really believing before I became comfortable enough to admit to myself I was an agnostic. I went to church every Sunday, and I still prayed sometimes. One night, I met this really fun and attractive blond, we hit it off and talked for hours. Eventually we went back to her place, stayed up half the night watching movies, started making out, and things escalated. I woke up beside her the next morning, the sun shining golden on her curly hair and reflecting off the smooth skin of her naked body. I felt overwhelmed with warmth, excitement, happiness, anticipation. As it should be. No guilt. I'd always felt guilt in the past, even when things didn't go anywhere near as far as they had gone the night before. That day I was able to admit to myself that I was agnostic.

My dad would probably call that, "Searing your conscious with a hot iron", i.e., I finally desensitized myself to the point that I didn't feel guilty about it.

I feel that it had more to do with getting over my separation anxiety with an imaginary friend, one that I was unable to let go of until adulthood.

This one was a lot harder than that first one I said goodbye to back in pre-school. I didn't make this one up, somebody else did. Everyone I knew still talked to and about this one. From infancy on up, this imaginary friend had been pressed upon me. And, yeah, he brought me a lot of comfort in the past, just like the one I had in pre-school. When something is so deeply enculterated into you, it can be really hard to let go of and move on from. 

When people talk about knowing in their heart that God is real, it is hard for me to forget that, I too, felt that way once. All my life my skeptical brain questioned him and doubted, but I couldn't let go, there was always this nagging feeling inside me. This separation anxiety from a concept deeply saturated in my culture and in my upbringing.

Looking back I know that is all it ever was. It was a grown up version of that little kid who cried his eyes out when he said goodbye to his imaginary friend, this time, doubting his own doubt, and having a hard time dropping a concept he was closely surrounded by all his life.

I used to have many Muslim friends. One in particular I was close enough with to have religious conversations. "How can you be so sure Allah is real?" I once asked him. "Because", he smiled warmly, "I can feel in my heart that he is real."