CP3S

So, now every time I read "*sigh*" I get hungry for tacos...

Seriously, I had to run to Taco Bell just now. On my way there I realized I hate Taco Bell tacos. It's the ground beef. That stuff is disgusting. So I ordered a few of their potato tacos. On the drive home, I was thinking about *sigh* still, and remembered how Gaffer once made the joke that every time Warbler sighs, an angel falls into a vat of maple syrup. So, I was pondering the fact that now every time Warbler sighs, a poor angel falls into a vat of maple syrup (and presumably drowns...) AND C3PX gets hungry for tacos. It just goes to show our words and action do have an impact on the universe.

Time isn't real! You are all being duped!

Exactly what Fink said. I can't sing. At all. Well... I say I can't sing, technically I can sing, but nobody wants to hear me sing because it isn't pleasant. No amount of formal training or voice lessons would fix that. I might have tons of room for improvement, and might even be able to reach a level that would be slightly bearable to human ears, but I will never be talented at singing. 

Warbler said:

But how else do you explain how some no talent loser like me without any sort of formal training(except what I got as a kid in the church and school choir, which wasn't all that much except being told to sing from the diaphragm)  was able to sing so well today?   I am not saying sounded anywhere near like a professional, but no way could I have sounded as well as I had without some sort of miracle taking place.    Laugh if you want.      

Because you're not a "no talent loser". You're obviously talented, and you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. If you didn't have talent, then they never would have asked you to sing the solo in the first place, which they've now done more than once.

I'm not trying to convince you God didn't help you through it. Maybe he did. And I am not laughing at you for believing it was a miracle. That is really cool you nailed it. Good job, man.

In a similar vein to Leonardo's last b*tch...

I changed jobs a few months ago, and stayed in touch with one of my female coworkers. We grabbed some beers together a few times, and she'd text me pretty much daily. One evening while pretty drunk we hooked up, both said it was a mistake the next day, and everything went back to normal and seemed good. She continued texting me like usual, would vent to me when she needed someone to vent to, and frequently mentioned how great it is having a friend like me. She was actually kind of emotionally draining a lot of the time, but I did appreciate the friendship to some degree.

Ran into one of my other former coworkers two days ago, and found out I've been the subject of some pretty major gossip in my former place of work going on well over a month now. Some really bizarre sounding gossip too! Apparently the entire workplace knows about our accidental hook up, and a bunch of other really weird stuff that never happened, including me being a bit of a sleaze bag and constantly trying to get her best friend to sleep with me (only hung out with her and her best friend a couple of times, I'm not attracted to her at all, and she's married; I'd never even consider it).

Was pretty disappointed to discover someone who I thought was a pretty close friend had been telling everyone some pretty warped stuff about me behind my back, while communicating with me on friendly terms regularly. I told her just the tip of the iceberg of the stuff I heard, she asked me who told me, told her I couldn't tell her, and she told me that if I wouldn't tell her then I can just stop talking to her, to which I replied, "Sounds like a deal to me".

Feel like I invested a lot into this person. A couple of times when she really needed me for something, I was there at the drop of a hat. Turns out she was totally not worth my time. Who does that? Tells you what a great influence you are in their life, and how wonderful of a friend you are; while telling your old friends extremely unflattering made up things about you?

Feels good to get that off my chest. And it has been nice not waking up every morning with 10 - 15 unread text messaged on my phone all from the same person.

SEGA CD in college? Wow, Fink is old.

;)

Reading the description of those Russian bootlegs, they are over dubbed in Russian, so unless you speak it, they wouldn't be very fun to watch.

The Russians tend to do this thing where they take the original audio track and dub over it, so the original audio and voice acting will still be there, but you'll hear a voice in Russian talking over it. I've never seen that done in any other country I have been, other than in the instance of some documentaries.

The Russian DVD's are just bootlegs, so you'd be better off just downloading them, you can get fairly decent quality rips online and then you wouldn't be supporting piracy with your money. There has never been an official release of the first two seasons, at least last time I checked. Anything you burn and print yourself would probably be at least as good quality as the Russian bootlegs.

Yeah, dude, don't you know who she is?

"*sigh* whatever"

Zig! My long lost future son has returned!

muff wig

And expose my Sean Connery-esque quantity of chest hair?

Not sure why I have never mentioned this here before, because it may be the singularly coolest thing about the city I live in. I was staring at it last night and thinking about how great it was, and decided it deserved its own dedicated thread. Maybe I'll sneak a picture of the actual thing one of the next times I'm in there and post it.

In this nifty little faux English pub I frequent, there is a framed photograph of Chewbacca behind the bar. It is this exact picture:

On which is scribbled the words, "RAISE THE UNION JACK, HAIL BRITANNIA" followed by Peter Mayhew's signature.

I'm pretty sure he is one of only a relatively small handful of Englishmen who have ever even set foot in this little "English Pub", probably while in town for a convention, and obviously found the fact that it was named after his country's flag really amusing.

I don't even know how many twines my shirt has... and I eat shrimp, with no regard to their sexual preferences... I'm starting to feel pretty certain that spikes my gayness levels a bit, Levitically speaking.

And some of the stuff that Bingo has been saying in this thread has made my Lego avatar a little lusty for him.

I'd say it does!

However, I love shrimp! Does that make me the Levitical equivalent of gay?

Warbler said:

I think it is you and others here that don't get it.    You have me coming off vastly different from how I intend it.   You act as if I was yelling that disapproval and pointing a finger in his face while I did it, and nothing could be further from the truth.  I think it would be so much clearly if you could hear me say it rather than just read it.

No, I totally get that. I know you don't realize it is harmful, and that you are saying it in the gentlest way possible; but in the end, no matter how gently put, it is still something that hurts people. You're telling someone they are inherently wrong for being who they are.

But since it is from God, if you believe in God, it is entirely justifiable. 

I'm actually more than fine with this, but I find the double standard really annoying when you guys start complaining about how mean and offensive we are being for merely expressing our views, while you openly express things that are really mean and harmful toward real live people (again, even when gently put), and then scratch your heads in puzzlement when we find it distasteful. 

thejediknighthusezni said:

        Atheists use multiverse arguments to escape from a creator God over this particular cosmos.  I wonder whether it instead supports theism much more readily.  Might not one among these infinite realms have formed in such a way that matter and energy could self organize into a fantastically powerful single entity? All that remains would be a means to communicate and influence the other realms.

"Atheists" don't have to use multiverse arguments to "escape" from a creator God.

I feel like this argument, which I have heard from many theists in one form or another, is a bit of a step back. Initially they argue that the universe happening by random chance is so insanely improbable, you have to be really putting on the blinders in order to ignore the fact that it just couldn't happen without an all powerful designer and creator. Then when you ask them where this all powerful designer and creator might have come from, they make the argument that if atheists believe the universe could have happened by random chance, then surely it is a possibility that God happened by random chance... It is rather circular. 

I feel like the probability of a single celled organism happening by random chance is a lot more probable than a omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent entity with the power to create anything it wants happening by random chance.

Creationist have a hard time with the concept of construction from the bottom up, and tend to make their arguments from the top down. The watch in the shoe box analogy is a good example of this. The analogy goes that a universe by random chance is as likely as taking a shoe box, tossing all the random disconnected pieces of a fob watch in it, vigorously shaking it up, and opening the box to find a fully functioning watch telling the correct time down to the second. Only the argument goes that this is much more likely than a universe from nothing, since all the parts for the watch were already present and in the box.

This way of thinking is looking at the end product, marveling at it, and disregarding the process that went into making it what it is now. The watch also evolved over time. Someone didn't just come up with the idea, cut some gears, and throw the thing together overnight. The clockwork developed over a period of time, and someone eventually figured out they could shrink it down to a pocket size unit. And even before clockwork was thought of, the development process spanned and even greater period of time, we had to develop our concept of time, of days, hours, minutes, and seconds, we had to discover we could extract minerals and melt down and shape metals, and we had to discover how to make glass and how we could blow it into different shapes.

We have a really complex and intricate world today, but it wasn't always that way, it took a very long period of time, growing from something very simple into things more complex, developing through trial and error into what worked, with the rejects and things that didn't work failing and perishing, and the things that worked surviving and developing further.

You get a very different perspective when you look at a magnificent skyscraper from the top down (as a whole), this amazing complex and intricate structure; than you do when you look at it from the bottom up, considering all the development and discovery it took to make every single piece of material, from the simple to the advanced, including ideas, that were used in its construction.

Warbler said:

When I say I don't approve, I in no intend it to come across as a scolding.   I am not really how simply saying I don't approve of X, comes across as scolding someone for X.   I have never scolded someone for being a homosexual, and nor would I.

You don't seem to get it, and it is probably time to drop this little branch of the discussion, but I will try one last thing. I know you were unemployed a while back, not sure if you still are, but let's suppose your unemployment was brought up and someone said, "I don't approve of people who don't work and have to be supported by my tax dollars."

Would you not feel a little scolded and judged?

At this point you'd probably feel a little defensive, I'd love to have a job and not have to take unemployment. I didn't ask to be unemployed and I am actively looking for work, it just isn't there! 

Right? Or would you really be totally okay with someone saying that to you and not feel even slightly judged or like you were being scolded?

Maybe Trooperman has always been nuts, and Sam and all his socks were a creation of his.

Googling "Pope Francis is Jesus Christ", and every link seems to have some connection to this place. TheAmazingUncleSam, Darth, and Trooperman.

Ender, how are you sure TheAmazingUncleSam is actually our annoying pet troll? If it actually is him, maybe he is just quoting Trooperman for kicks.

This whole thread is really weird.

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

It took me a few more years to accept the word "atheist", as I found it generally distasteful. Now I realize, by definition, that is what I am, and I don't resist it anymore.

could have sworn you once told me you were an agnostic.

If you've read my post, you'd see that I explained it took me a while to become comfortable with the word "atheist", and for a long time identified with the term "agnostic".

Bioshock Infinite.

Wooo! As excited about this game as I have been, I've been pretty skeptical about it from the day the first teaser was unveiled on through up until yesterday.

I loved Rapture, Bioshock's story, and the amazing visuals. Just about everything about that game appealed to me in some way. From the nifty steam punk environment, the dystopian setting, the music, a world sunk into utter madness, the creepy Big Daddy/Little Sister concept, to the deconstruction of Objectivism.

Infinite's storyline being completely disconnected from the original game made me very skeptical. How could it really be Bioshock?

Well, now that I have played it, I realize my skepticism was unnecessary. It is great. I find myself wanting to poke my head in every nook and cranny of Colombia, not wanting to miss a single piece of this intricate and fascinating backdrop the developers built, just like I did the first time I entered Rapture several years ago. The intrigue and mystery of trying to discover what is going on, an element I felt the second Bioshock completely lost, is totally back. And despite the bright sun shinny setting (quite a contrast from the dimly lit dreariness of Rapture), it still somehow manages to be extremely dark and creepy. Like a horror film that takes place in the daytime, but still manages to leave you extremely unsettled. Everything about this game is Bioshock, through and through. They managed to do exactly what I was sure they would be unable to do.

I was pretty sure I was going to really enjoy Infinite, but I didn't think I'd start to fall in love with it and its world like I did the first game. But here I am, totally smitten.

darth_ender said:

In other words, I can't believe in something just because of some intangible feelings.

Yeah. Why would you believe something from an intangible feeling? Especially if that intangible feeling had very good reason to exist because everyone around pressed it into you from a young age.

It took me a long time to make the leap from theist to agnostic. It had been hammered into me from a young age. Bible stories at bedtime, Sunday school each week, say your prayers before bedtime and at every meal. I often felt guilty when I'd fall asleep before I finished praying. Sometimes I'd nod off in the middle of my prayer, and then I'd apologize and start over. It seemed unspeakably rude to nod off while talking to the creator and ruler of the Universe.

I spent a period of time still being a "theist" while not really believing before I became comfortable enough to admit to myself I was an agnostic. I went to church every Sunday, and I still prayed sometimes. One night, I met this really fun and attractive blond, we hit it off and talked for hours. Eventually we went back to her place, stayed up half the night watching movies, started making out, and things escalated. I woke up beside her the next morning, the sun shining golden on her curly hair and reflecting off the smooth skin of her naked body. I felt overwhelmed with warmth, excitement, happiness, anticipation. As it should be. No guilt. I'd always felt guilt in the past, even when things didn't go anywhere near as far as they had gone the night before. That day I was able to admit to myself that I was agnostic.

In other words, I came to believe this in part because of some intangible feelings.  Yes, feelings of happiness at having a sexual encounter without guilt.  Feelings that if God was real, he'd surely be scolding me now.  Yep, I had good feelings, so agnosticism must be true.

I don't mean to belittle your experience, but this sounds a lot like "witnessing."

I guess you didn't get what I was saying with my story. Perhaps I should have ensured the point was clearer. Let me attempt to clarify now.

My point was nowhere along the lines of, "an intangible feeling' convinced me there was no God". I was saying that I didn't believe in God, and that it took me a rather lengthy amount of time before I could let go of it all.

So more accurately:

In other words, that "intangible feeling" that told me God was real, that was deeply instilled in me throughout childhood, eventually faded; and it took that before I could admit to myself that I didn't believe.

It took me a few more years to accept the word "atheist", as I found it generally distasteful. Now I realize, by definition, that is what I am, and I don't resist it anymore.

Ultimately, I was saying that this feeling of "just knowing" that you guys talk about, I totally had it too (Or at least, I feel that what I felt was very similar to what several of your have described). Only, I now attribute it to the much more tangible concept of enculturation; rather than a sign or indicator from a supernatural source.

And completely unimportant to the above point, but just to clarify a little more, least my character and values be understood to be less than they are, it wasn't about having feelings of happiness because I had a sexual encounter. It was that happiness that comes from a new relationship, from having met a person you really hit it off with and can't wait to see again, the anticipation of wanting to see what the future might bring, the acceptance that it may end in heartache, and the feeling that even if it does it'll totally be worth it, etc. Previously those exciting emotions would have been overshadowed by my feelings of guilt (not a deity scolding me, but an ill feeling of having violated my own personal mores), and when for the first time they weren't, it surprised me and led me to admit to myself that I really didn't believe anymore, a reality I tried to hid from myself for a period.

Bingowings said:

Did I mention Buddha's birthday is celebrated on Dec 25th?

The fact that Jesus' birthday is celebrated on December 25th has everything to do with the Catholic church "converting" pagan holidays, and nothing to do with a legitimate belief of when Jesus may have been born.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

CP3S said:

Okay, but it does say those things. Bingo admitted he rather liked the teachings of Jesus, and is rather fond of the guy (as am I).

I'd truly like to be too, but the evidence is still pretty scant that he even existed, outside of mythologically.

Well yeah, if he was real, most of what was recorded about him would be extremely exaggerated.

I personally think he is completely fictional, and even if he wasn't, he might as well be since he'd be so far removed from the Jesus we read about.

But I feel like the character of Jesus in the Bible is a total badass. I actually really like the story of the gospels through and through. The narrative of men waiting for a savior to lead them in rebellion against the Romans and to restore their once great kingdom, following this guy around and listening to him preach about peace but hardly listening as evidenced by the swords and daggers they carried with them (ever ready to fight and die beside him), then giving up and going back to their lives with dashed dreams of glory after he was executed, only to see him resurrected a few days later and to finally come to the realization about what he had been trying to tell them... Very good stuff!