lol.
Incidentally I don't see anything particularly wrong with that shot that wasn't wrong with the original painting. If anything is wrong it won't show up on youtube.
Cool, I always thought the orange saturation looked bad. A common flaw with modern "colour correction" really, they just seem to bathe each shot in some bright orange or blue tint and call it a day. But your version does look perhaps too desaturated. Perhaps you could colour in some things, like the pillar, the interior lights, give the drones a brighter more metallic sheen and perhaps fill the colour of the seperatist shuttle back in too.
Basically just bring some sort of colour back into it.
adywan said:
BmB said:
The next time someone throws an issue down to a matter of taste I don't know what I'm going to do. But for now I will merely harm my keyboard with my forehead. Or the other way around if you will.
That is to say, if you disagree tell me why, don't just say it.
well thats very mature. So if anyone disagrees with your infinite wisdom then you become aggressive. Why do most of your posts here at OT.com consists of saying things are crap? Not just here but in other threads too? instead of bashing anything anyone seems to be doing why don't you show us what you can do? If you are so knowledgeable about such things then you must have some experience in art or 3D so please show us how it should be done to look convincing then.
Evereyone else realises that DE's shaft clip is a work in progress and was just a test to show what could be done and they can seem to get that little detail into their heads when judging it so why can't you? You don't like it. Ok, we get it. we have our own opinions and you have yours.
so, at the end of the day, i guess its a matter of taste ;)
:|
I don't get riled up because someone disagrees with me. Of course not. I get aggravated when they disagree but then refuse to give any kind of backing argument that might lead to a meaningful and productive discussion.
It's a work in progress, sure. It could be better, of course. And I was trying to point out what I thought was wrong with it and gave my thoughts on what you might do to make it better. I guess I could line up and say "it looks great, DE!", but then I'd be at least partially lying. :/
Also, I'm quite impressed that you're able to juggle all that and keep it together.
Millions, not billions. ;P
I think you'll have to do more than cut together clips from other shows in order to make it looks good. As it stands, I actually think the original explosion, the timing fixed as it was by the SE looks great. Better than Adywan's version actually.
But yeah, if you could show some vision of Alderaanians dying in the blast it would become more dramtic certainly. On the other hand, that scene really is mostly from Leia's perspective. So just having it explode from space does make sense narratively. It also better fits the more lighthearted tone of the film if I may say so.
The visual effects in TPM are a masterpiece combining great artistry with solid knowledge of physical simulation, rendering, camera and film properties and virtual lighting. I somehow doubt the ILM of today could redo that to any standard.
The more I think about it the more I realize TPM really should have won that oscar. Bullet time is just a gimmick anyway.
Adywan's second unit is not your personal army?
Sorry. :P
My conviction is not beyond reason. I already gave a variety of reasonable examples of why I think it looks unconvincing.
The next time someone throws an issue down to a matter of taste I don't know what I'm going to do. But for now I will merely harm my keyboard with my forehead. Or the other way around if you will.
That is to say, if you disagree tell me why, don't just say it.
That's an "m" to you.
And I already said I'm not against it, my complaint is that it looks unconvincing.
And what "light bleed"? Light bleed from what? You can still make out ample distance between each light in the whiter areas, and in shots of what's below there's no particular light source to speak of.
I posted a youtube video with optical zoom and I don't see any movement other than the camera shake.
Also I was talking about 3D fog in the context of replacing the 2D haze in the 3D shot. Nothing more.
Hmm, you're right it seems the ring is lights. I just thought maybe they were vents because that's really the only feature of the background that has red lights. Again, hard to tell with Youtube.
Maybe you're right about the vader shot, I honestly wouldn't know. I always thought it was haze and I think it adds depth and scale to the the image. And there clearly is deliberate haze on the big matte painting shot.
Where?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D4qXG8locM
I think you are mistaking zooming for dollying no?
Also no, I do believe fog and haze has been around longer than the Earth, and has been a regular painting technique for many hundreds of years to add depth, particularly to large sceneries and such. I think the haze is clearly visible as a luminous grey colour over the background here:
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep5/duel4.jpg
And in the same shot, I thought the exhaust vents were those red things also visible, and there's a whole ring of them under the vane in the big overview matte. I thought maybe this ring was what Luke fell into. Or maybe the ones he falls in aren't even visible there.
Huh? What else would it be? A million tonnes of white paint someone spilled? :P
Jokes aside, it's visible in every single shot of the background. There's always that greyed out haze fading the highlights and brightening the blacks. Fog is one of the better tools for giving depth to an image like that. That's another problem I have with the shot in the final trailer btw, the haze has been removed and the background now appears almost too sharp. Which I think removes some of the sense of scale.
As for greebles, I think there's plenty of the lines in the background that look like they could be rather large indentations. Not to mention the red exhaust shafts like the one luke falls into. And the move isn't particularly small either. Considering the scale of the thing, even a relatively small motion like the one you showed is a rather large distance covered fairly quickly.
Well all the live action with Hamill hanging from the prop seems to be shot from the same angle so naturally the background would match.
Bingowings said:
I've done this rough video scribble to illustrate my earlier point about making a bit more of Leia's injury.
It's rough as hell and the musical cues and linking material are all over the place I only post it as hopefully fuel for a bit of discussion and maybe inspiration for further ideas.
It does swing back and forth (largely because I was playing with the idea of mini-cliffhangers (is Leia ok? will Luke swing to the darkside? will he be killed by the Emperor?) so maybe only a few of the ideas in there might be fit for use.
It might seem less jumpy if some of the battle was shifted into the gaps.
That's great. I always felt the pacing of those scenes were a bit bullshit. But now it seems much more intense. In fact I was dissapointed to see it end as topping that with the ending sequences inside the death star would have been perfect. It also gives Luke a more believable amount of time to haul Vader to a docking bay.
Darth Editous said:
I'm sorry if it's not up to your standards, but my intention was to add a 3D effect to an existing matte painting and otherwise leave it exactly as is. I didn't want people reaching for the pause button because some new shiny shot has just leapt out at them, and judging by the original response (which was largely "what's changed?") I succeeded.
DE
Then why add the 3D effect at all? It's not like there's anything wrong with zooming in.
adywan said:
BmB, how the hell can you say that it wasn't done well, especially how good that shot looks and i doubt thats even his finished version
Because with the amount of motion in the camera, there's no parralax on either the fog or the greebly detail in the background. Which makes it look distinctly painted on, helping the "cardboard cutout" look. Which was why I suggested 3D fog be added. As well as the reduction in field of view that would *maybe* further help mask the effect.
The linelike flatness of the connection also gives it the cardboard effect, even though the shading on the connector suggests a more three dimensional shape. Youtube quality isn't the best for judging how these shots will look in full quality anyway.
But if you're building a model that sounds like it will look great.
The multiplane effect never looked good btw.
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Because the empire is really big and they're not all telepathically connected so everyone in the empire knows everything that's going on in the empire?
As an example, say you're the president of the United States. Your vice president is looking for two droids, and the secret service tugs some car into the driveway of the white house and they inform you the license plate match that of a car that shot it's way out of "Elm Street".
No, no. You get me all wrong. I'm not against updating the films. I like it. What I mean is of all the shots and mattes you could mess around with you choose exactly one of those that are least objectionable. And make it more objectionable with dodgy CG.
I'm not against the 3D effect either for that matter, if you find the time and effort to do it then kudos to you, but at least do it well.
You can argue for it all you want here, that doesn't change the fact it's not in the movie. All we know about Tatooine is that it's remote. In fact, the fact that Ben has to tell luke that he won't find a more wretched hive of scum and villiany suggests the place isn't even infamous enough for a resident of Tatooine to have heard about it's reputation.
You guys are worse than George you know that?
That is to say I'm not sure how that makes it a better movie. And while the main "sail" part looks fairly good the room itself and for matter the way it connects to the sail looks kinda like a cardboard cutout, if you'll excuse me. It could probably use with a different field of view, some lens distortion, 3D fog and something more three dimensional to connect it.
subtleinspiration said:
wwdarth said:...also, I wanted Anakin's transformation to Darth Vader to be more clearly defined, and more selfish. I wanted him to make a consious decision to follow the path to the dark side, instead of being "decieved" or "brainwashed" by Palpatine. How rewarding would it have been to see a young Anakin Skywalker...closed off, to himself...perhaps even ostrasized by his friends. Then, when he realzied his gift for the force, relish in the idea of absolute power. And of coarse he develops a real thirst for it along the way.
From what was mentioned of him in the PT, Anakin was a fine pilot during the Clone Wars. I think the Clone Wars, as we saw it realized on film, was not the true horror of a war that the very name would imply. Something that Anakin encounters during his tour of duty must change him to the point where he can be seduced by the teachings of the Sith. Perhaps for all the evil the Sith were known for, at least they would have never allowed such a monstrosity as what happened during the Clone Wars, something Anakin would blame on this in charge at this time (namely, The Republic and the Jedi). For the man to hunt down and kill every single Jedi, he has to have some intense motivation. A memory of something horrific that changed him forever would do very well to account for this.
If the emperor made him believe the jedi killed padme suddenly it would all make perfect sense.
Or maybe it's fine as it is really. If he thinks he killed padme he would hate himself and psosibly try to shift the blame in his head. He already considers the jedi a threat to peace and justice.
The real difficulty is giving him a real reason for thinking this, as it stands he seems to just believe every word palpatine says for no good reason. If he told him the moon was made of cheese he would take his ship and bring a lot of biscuits.
I'll just go over in a corner and sulk at the notion that Motion is "3D" now. k? :)
Bingowings said:
If Tatooine is as out of the way as Luke complains it is Tarkin may actually be more familiar with the space port name than the planet name.
Before the first Gulf War Baghdad (through it's associations with Scherazade) was culturally more recognisable than Iraq to the clueless masses.
That's a whole new piece of story you'd have to tell onscreen before that explanation makes any sense.
I really enjoy that finally you have fixed the luminosty challenged pyrotechnics in the big overhead shot of the duel on the walkway. It's one of those things where I've just wanted to take a giant red marker and paint a circle around it and go "if you have to change the movies around then fix this. This! THIS ONE FIRST!"
But in the same shot I thought Luke's "super bright" saber was great. It will be missed. I think the new style looks too... bloomy if you will. And less like a lens flare.
Really? I never noticed it wasn't named. Odd. But honestly that's a little conservatist considering this is a fan-editing thread not a OUT preservation thread. It always sat wrong with me and I think it decreases the enjoyability of the film, even for, or even particularly for casual viewers.
Dialouge that isn't for the benefit of the characters is meaningless exposition, which always draws attention to itself. I've always counted ANH as a wondrous film in the sense that it treats neither it's viewers nor it's characters like idiots. But this one line is... well out of line.
Does it matter? Wasn't it based on the negatives? Or was that just ANH?
