Bingowings

TV’s Frink said:

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/ROTJ-is-the-best-Star-Wars-film-discuss/id/15430

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Return-of-the-Jedi-Appreciation-Thread/id/17468

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Views-on-Return-of-the-Jedi-22-years-later/id/2999

Those threads all are better than this one because this thread’s title sucks.

I would suggest these threads as merge candidates as it does seem as if these points all deserve to be in the same place for the next time someone brings up the topic (which is probably inevitable).
As for the title suckage : http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Return-of-the-Jedi/id/17604/page/1#760426

It’s been done hasn’t it?

LuckyGungan2001 said:

Oh no! My thread has turned into some weird debate, just as all the other ROTJ threads have before it. Will we ever have a ROTJ thread where people don’t argue?

It’s a divisive film. More people love it and have nostalgic feelings for it than the PT films and some people love those too.
Other people like myself find it deeply flawed so what do you expect?
All divisive topics will inevitably lead to arguments, just look at the other ROTJ threads.
On the other hand the ROTJ ideas on the wishlist thread are fun so there is amusement and stimulation to be derived from attempting to fix what is seen by some to be broken.

An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. I’ve done my bit here.

Yes this would make your intent more clear.
To my ears it just sounded like background music but doing this and using the segments of the song I suggested would also underline what you are trying to do. I don’t know if there are films you may have with prominent shots of tannoy speakers. Maybe Blue Brothers when they are advertising the concert has some. My memory isn’t what it was.

When I first suggested using the track it was in the context of Luke and vader communicating in ESB. The lyrics talk of using telepathy to contact the crew of spaceships. That part of the song doesnt match that part of this film (other than the “we are your friends” bit which is hilarious). There is however the middle eight section with the jaunty flutes and talk of interstellar policemen “please come in peace” might work better with Jedi slaughtering the clones. Maybe you could use that bit and end on the “we are your friends” bit to get the best of both. Just a thought.

imperialscum said:

Bingowings said:

imperialscum said:

Bingowings said:

I see Jedi and the PT as broken art works that the mind can’t resist trying to repair.

You have some serious problem with understanding the concept of art. Art work is not an engineered machinery with a objectively defined intended operation that can be broken and repaired. Art work is a subjective expression of an artist, which simply is what it is.

No I have a different idea of what art is.
Art is work and work can be meaningless or meaningful but in either case it is functional.
The first two films provide a functional experience. They are designed to evoke nostalgia for cinematic and fantastical forms which I only became aware of around or after the release of the first film but they also are immersive fantasy stories which have a distorted but tangible sense of other ‘reality’. Jedi has a Wizard of Oz joke in the first act and an open nod to Tarzan in the last act.
These date the film and wreck the sense of immersion in that world not just for that film but for the whole series. It breaks Star Wars.
So naturally my mind tries to imagine ROTJ without the malfunctions and it’s a rewarding experience that I wouldn’t have if the film wasn’t as much of a let down as it was. For me… Clearly not for you. That’s were the subjectivity you talk about kicks in.

Basically all your just said (meaningfulness, functionality, immersion, especially “malfunctions”, etc.) is more or less your personal impression of an art work.

No if an artist designed a painting that spins and the rubber band making the motor spin broke it would stop doing what the artist originally intended to do with the piece.
Clearly from watching the first two movies we are supposed to have purchased an immersive experience of fictional reality. Being reminded that we are watching a movie with clear references to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJPCqUhSRbY and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHWbsvgQUE breaks that sense of being in another world. The canvass stops spinning. I paid for a spinning canvas I want my money back.

imperialscum said:

Bingowings said:

I see Jedi and the PT as broken art works that the mind can’t resist trying to repair.

You have some serious problem with understanding the concept of art. Art work is not an engineered machinery with a objectively defined intended operation that can be broken and repaired. Art work is a subjective expression of an artist, which simply is what it is.

No I have a different idea of what art is.
Art is work and work can be meaningless or meaningful but in either case it is functional.
The first two films provide a functional experience. They are designed to evoke nostalgia for cinematic and fantastical forms which I only became aware of around or after the release of the first film but they also are immersive fantasy stories which have a distorted but tangible sense of other ‘reality’. Jedi has a Wizard of Oz joke in the first act and an open nod to Tarzan in the last act.
These date the film and wreck the sense of immersion in that world not just for that film but for the whole series. It breaks Star Wars.
So naturally my mind tries to imagine ROTJ without the malfunctions and it’s a rewarding experience that I wouldn’t have if the film wasn’t as much of a let down as it was. For me… Clearly not for you. That’s were the subjectivity you talk about kicks in.

I prefer The Motion Picture to TWOK so there you go it’s a subjective thing to a degree but I think there are measurable qualities to the first two Star Wars film that dip afterwards.

The Force powers are sillier than the PT and that takes some doing.

Chillax I’ve been disappointed by Star Wars films since 1983 but I get so much entertainment by fixing them in my mind.
If the films had all been classics I would watch them every once in a while and that would be it but seeing so many pieces of potential left in the increasing wreckage of the series so far keeps me coming back to these movies.
It’s why I watch Exorcist 3 more that The Exorcist. The first one is almost perfect as it was, the third one might have been perfect if the director was left alone to do his job. The first sequel and the prequels to The Exorcist are bizarre to the point of almost being entertaining because of themselves rather than because of what they were trying to do and the least said about the special edition the better.
I see Jedi and the PT as broken art works that the mind can’t resist trying to repair.

With a mind to the myth of Mark breaking character and calling Leia “Carrie” the cast of the ridiculous OT could once in a while refer to each other by the name of the actor that plays them. Artoo could do it in his subtitles. This could be a running gag across the next three films.

SilverWook said:
What is this in reference to?

TK428 said:

Have been super busy with work this week but I wanted to weigh in on the newest TV Spot focusing on Finn. I think it’s my favorite one thus far. It’s a pure adrenaline rush! I loved the banter between Han and Finn and his “Hell no” line.

I’ve seen a few grumblings that that language is in Star Wars but my mind immediately went back to Sir Alec Guinness saying “damn fool errand” in SW77. There’s a precedent for real, adult talk in Star Wars.

Are the words hell and damn really seen as adult language in the US? Forgive me for asking but I’m Scottish 😄

I think the PT and ROTJ have the potential to be as good as ESB but that potential is squandered by the lack of grounding in the fantasy. The rebels in the first two films feel like real people. The threat of the Imperials feels tangible. Adding puppets and later CGI to the pro and antagonists makes both sides feel less realistic. The aliens are either depicted as plausible replacements for real world archetypes (the Tuskens represent the resistance of first peoples against colonists for example) or a background characters in the first two films. The exceptions (Chewie and Yoda) paved the way for aliens beings taking more of the centre stage but the technology used to depict them is less and less phyical and the effect is that they become increasingly divorced from physical reality.
The Sandpeople are depicted as physical beings with interesting details in their costumes that speak of a culture beyond what is said.
The Ewoks and Gungans could have filled a similar role but they look increasingly less physical and are played for laughs. Even the Jawas have a sinister edge to them and yet I felt genuinely sad for them when were slaughtered by Storm Troopers. One feels the beginning of that with the Ewoks but none of that at all with Gungans. Similarly the droids are physical in the first two films and treated as abused characters which we are supposed to care for. In ROTJ they become more puppetised and the subject of very strange jokes (the droid torture scene is really out of place compared to the torture scenes in ANH and ESB). They then become comic animated characters in the PT the battle droids lacking any menace and lacking any sense of sympathy.
Jedi is where the rot set in. The PT is just rotten.

It’s pretty crappy but Mark and Ian lift it from being as bad as the prequels.
I see it as the contractual obligation album of the original films.
Dull direction, tatty production design, inconsistent quality control on the effects (some amazing, some utterly awful). Phoned in performances from almost everyone. Every loose end knotted in ridiculously convenient ways (Yoda’s death scene is astonishingly mishandled). Some it makes no sense at all, what is Luke’s plan to rescue Han? Think about it and explain it to me please because it’s been bugging me since 1983.
That’s my position but if you thumb through this thread you will see others :http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/ROTJ-is-the-best-Star-Wars-film-discuss/id/15430

Sevb32 said:

Reason I brought up Hitler is because he is regarded as one of the worst people on earth. I could have put in Charles Manson or Jeffery Dalmer or whatever.

As far as I can remember Manson wrote songs but neither made films.

For me the only things keeping ROTJ from being PT level bad are Ian McDiamid and Mark Hamill.
I think the PT and ROTJ could have been good films equal to ESB but George’s yes men ruined it. He needed someone to counter his goofier ideas and his apathy to quality after things got really rocky with Marcia.
Star Wars made serious toy money (nothing wrong with that) but the merchandise came from the first two films it started to star in the third one and took over the prequels for which it was the main reason for those films to exist.
I think there are some good things to be salvaged from ROTJ and the PT it’s why I’m looking forward to them getting the Adywan treatment much more than the first two projects.
They are the most broken so there is nothing to be lost by trying to fix them from an alternative fan viewing perspective. I would preserve the theatrical cuts of all the movies because of their unique cultural impact. I’d preserve The Room for much the same reason.

¡BANG!

OOPS!

Steven_TheFarce said:

Hey fellow galactians! I am Steven Hightower! Acclaimed professional film youtube reviewer. Here is my review of Star Wars: The Force Awakens. My opinion is not only clamored for, but asked for too.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/d93SbwRBUJY

More evidence of Time Travel.

This is something I’ve wanted to see since 1997 :

Bingowings said:

Forgive the roughness of these mock-ups but (and I appreciate how difficult it will be) the helmets of the Rebel pilots need more than just an insignia colour change.

Ady recognised this when he changed the insignia from blue to red but the clean helmet squadron don’t appear in the battle so it’s still kind of odd that get such prominant screen time.

I don’t know if this: http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-11-17/its-taken-13-years-but-someone-has-finally-spotted-the-matrix-easter-egg-in-star-wars-attack-of-the-clones has been raised here before but I thought it was fun and plausible what with the first film stealing much of the expected applause from TPM. I didn’t see Comic Relief on the night (I don’t have broadcast television) but I caught the skit later. BB8 is shaping up to be a cultural icon like Fett and Maul.

starsighstar
I guess everyone has seen this by now 😭

The Hologram message is a good proof of concept. It fits in rather well as a mockup. Well worth finessing to get it just so, well done.

Just encase it isn’t already in here :

DuracellEnergizer said:

Bingowings said:

Padme’s world defended by gleaming chrome plated Y-wings would have sold the transition better.

You should bring this idea up in “The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread” (if you haven’t already).