Bingowings

TheoOdo said:

I'll never view the prequels as being related, at all with the original series because there's too many plot holes. There's, first of all, the "do you remember your mother", "yes", "but she dies in childbirth", "oh, well, i dunno lol" blunder.

Then of course there's the "he thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved", "what? and remain a slave? gee, uncle owen sure is a dick!" blunder which is also connected to the "how can he make judgements about him leaving tatooine? he never knew him until he came back!" problem.

Then there's the "wait, nothing at all happened to my throat or lungs, why do I need a breathing mask again?" problem. Then there's the "I was trained by yoda...well, actually, i was trained by liam neeson but whatevs lol" and just the overall irreparable fail of the series. No central, identifiable sympathetic main cast and no nasty antagonist. I was ready to accept Darth Maul in that role but that didn't really work out, did it?

We will have to see what Adywan does with ROTJ:R about Leia remembering Pandabear.

I don't have a problem with him adjusting ROTJ (when it makes sense...No spooky Hayden Christensen ghosts please) as it's almost as gone wrong (in it's current form/s) as the prequels in my book.

You could make a case for Leia (being a senator...like her mother before her) during her time in the post seeing heaps of archive recordings of Padme...ergo the images and feelings bit.

As for staying behind...yep that was a big balls up on George's part and one well within his scope of addressing in AOTC.

Maybe there is somewhere a deleted scene where Owen suggests to the pre-Sith Anakin that he should stay on the farm from now on.

But why didn't Lucas have Anakin arrive before his mother's kidnap was obvious?

She could have been out picking mushrooms, the family could have had a chin wag about him leaving the Jedi (which he seems to want to do anyway so he can get married and look after his mother) and then the news comes in about the kidnap. It would have added to Anakin's self loathing if he was just moments too late to prevent her abduction and death.

Now that is a serving suggestion beyond any fan editors ability (unless you get a fan film crew to shoot the missing material with really good look-and-sound-alike actors).

The Yoda thing gets covered in the prequels, it's a bit hamfisted but I'm Ok with Yoda being Kindergarten Jedi and Qui-Gon being Obi-Wan's Graduation Year tutor.

These are all the prequels we are going to get and Jedi is a bit of a mess, that is what fan-edits and this thread are about, making the best of what we have.

C'est la vie.

Josh said:

If only it were so easy bewy.

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Bingowings:

"...you could construct a moment of realisation during the Grevious/Obi Wan duel by dubbing a new line in, adding an eye close up and maybe a very brief flashback and Bingo!"

That's too much plot development to cram into RotS, plus it doesn't do justice to the relationship between the two characters.  If someone did try to do Maul-Grievous I'd like it to be something that unfolds over the course of the PT.  Something along the lines of: Maul and Kenobi meet in TPM, Grievous is then introduced in AotC hell-bent on getting revenge against Kenobi, and then the rivalry is finally ended in RotS.

You know how most television dramas have an "A" story and a "B" story.  The Grievous/Kenobi rivalry could be the "B" story of the PT while the Anakin Skywalker plot would be the "A" story.

Prompting the question of how would you do it?

It sounds great and I don't want to put you off but short of replacing Jengo with Maul Grievous during the Kamino fight which would be a massive undertaking where would he fit?

DarthBo said:

Guys, I'm fairly sure he was kidding.

Plus the Executor looks quite silly in grey.

I think it looks great but as it's been said tonnes of times now this is Adywan's project, he's doing the hard work so he makes the choices.

Sluggo said:

We had a rather lengthy discussion on the Maul/Grevious idea a few years ago.  A lot of folks made a good case for it, and a lot made a good case against it.  I think the concept was ultimately discarded as being impossible to pull off.

Take a look around the old discussions in SW Preservation and General SW Discussion and see if you can find them.

It needn't be that difficult, Adywan removed the red eye lens from every shot of Vader and changed the colour of Artoo's lights in ANH:R (not that I'm down playing how much effort went into that but is show's that it's possible).

Sticking Darth Maul eyes on Grevious would be only slightly more taxing, you could construct a moment of realisation during the Grevious/Obi Wan duel by dubbing a new line in, adding an eye close up and maybe a very brief flashback and Bingo!

Grevious used to be Maul and his sabre prowess and hatred of the Jedi suddenly make sense.

Maul-Grievous looks grand, in fact they all do.

It would be nice in ESB:R, ROTJ:R or Ady's prequel edits if we saw Stormtrooper/Clonetrooper armor actually deflecting the odd laser bolt or two.

I find it difficult to understand why the boys in white bothered to suit up watching all the Star Wars films.

Sure they look good but it seems that Palpatine was sold a dodgy batch.

In a related point it would be nice, either in ROTJ:R or the prequels to see the Royal Guard effectively guard the Emperor. (perhaps in a re-staged Vader choke scene) we all know they look cool but it would be fun to see why.

thunderclap said:

I know Adywan is planning on re-editing the prequels but I'm curious if anyone else here has watched the Slumberland edits?  A lot of what people are suggesting have been done in these cuts.  Adywan may in fact be able to go off these cuts instead of re-doing them completely as the Slumberland edits are quite good.

Thanks for letting me know about the Slumberland edits, (they had somehow fallen off my Radar).

I've started to download them now and I'll give them a good look.

Are they up anywhere in a smaller format (AVI for example) my connection is awful here and it would take forever to get the disc image versions?

TheoOdo said:

TMBTM said:

TheoOdo said:

Naboo is retitled "Alderaan"

In this case Adywan will need to cut the extra OT SE Naboo shoots in his ROTJ revisited.

I think it's a good idea, but it could cause many editing troubles for a result that, perhaps, don't really worth it.

 

Well, that's an '04 addition and after all Adywan's edit was originally started to fix the problems with the '04 edit.

I honestly don't think it'll be missed. I was certainly unhappy to see it there for the first time, but maybe that's just me.

The shot need not be entirely wasted. It could be stuck at the beginning of the celebration scenes in Episode 1 (minus the hideous Gungan cry).

If Tatooine and Geonosis were merged for an altered Episode 2 the Tatooine celebration could be used there to mark the removal of the Federation from that world.

As for the Yoda/Palpatine lightsabre thing, I don't have a problem with the idea (a Jedi uses the Force for defence and even master Jedi would use a lightsabre to defend himself and others). Palpatine would use anything to attack someone in his way, when stealth, scheming and manipulation fail why not use a sabre? His fighting style was interesting and unique too. The main purpose of the fight isn't to kill but to manipulate Anakin into making a final choice by placing himself under Windu's blade so it's inkeeping with the whole Sith way of doing things. It just looks a little clumsy the way that the idea is executed.

I wouldn't have Palpatine maimed into looking the way he does.

It would be difficult to achieve an edit to alter this but I'd have had him slowly transformed into the mess we see him in ROTJ because of advancing age and being consumed by his own evil, rather than getting a Force Lightning blow back.

It might be possible to stick his unaltered face over the top of the prune version in the key scenes of ROTS to get this across.

The naming of Vader scene is really out of place, Palpatine goes from a subtle Mephistophelean performance to a comedy bad guy in a few seconds. He doesn't even match the version we see in ROTJ.

While we are on the subject of things Sith, I'd have Anakin use force lightning on Padme ( I hear some hisses from the readers at this point).

At no point does Vader use this Sith skill in the OT but he chokes people left, right and centre (I've already voiced my hope that Adywan stops Luke from doing the choke move in ROTJ:R).

When I was a child I used to think Vader used this method of killing and torturing people because he himself can not breath unassisted and I still like this idea.

If the old Force choke constantly reminded him of killing his pregnant wife would he keep on doing it, thus rubbing his own nose in it?

If he had used Sith lightning on Padme it would explain the sudden delivery of her babies and even go some way to explaining her death in child birth.

It would also explain why Vader never does it again and underline the horror in Jedi of seeing Palpatine do the same move on Luke.

See it all makes sense now.

I hope?

Lord Riddler said:

Greetings.  I used to run a website called "Wattos Junkyard" back in the late 90's.

 

Anyway, I have been fasinated with the work that has gone into the "Re-Imagining" of these great films and I am a huge fan of the Episode IV version.

 

Seeing this thread, I would have really only one thing to wish for if I was in charge of re-editing "ROTJ".

 

Basically, a visual conflict be seen when Palpatine is killing Luke of Vader's images of his past.  Flashes of Padme, his mother, Qui-Gon etc...

 

It shows an inner conflict and I feel would add much tension to the scene.

 

Anyway, I look forward to conversing with you all.

Something like this, perhaps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZGyFm6zZeU

will said:

Does ol' Palpy even need to be from Naboo/Alderaan?

 

 

In the EU he does (but who cares in this context) as a Senator he didn't just represent Naboo but a collection of systems in the area, the Republic is a big place but with all this doubling up of representation it hardly sounds that democratic to start with.

It almost makes you wonder what the Alliance were fighting for in the first place.

If Palpatine had a good strong wife with a strong interest in herbal remedies like the Emperor Augustus had ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37lXkrGMpMQ ) the galaxy wouldn't have to wait long to get rid of rotten Emperors.

Doesn't Augustus look like Boss Nass BTW ;-)

 PS. It goes, hopefully without saying, that if you liked that clip do go out and buy "I Claudius" it'll be one of the best spending decisions you'll ever make.

All this talk of TIE colour is making this thread sound like Savile Row.

Master Qui-Gon said:

Yeah but how would you handle that Amidala and Bail are senators of the same planet?

 

Amidala could be head of state (like a constitutional President or Monarch, she is a Queen) Bail (a Viceroy) could be the local Senator and elected political leader once Palpatine has been promoted to Chancellor.

Living here in the UK HM Liz Windsor is the constitutional head of state but her Prime Minister Rt Hon Gordon Brown (texture like sun) is the elected political leader of the country and leads the country in the UK Parliament and during treaty negotiations.

The Queen still has certain powers (she can in theory desolve Parliament and war can't be declared without her approval, something Margaret Thatcher discovered to her embarrassment during the Falklands War) but it's the PM that heads up the day to day running of the shambles.

A similar set up exists in Eire which has a constitutional Presidency.

So you could have Queen Amidala and Viceroy Bail Organa both representing different arms of the running of Alderaan.

In a revised prequel trilogy she could remain Queen all the way through and just edit the references to her being a senator.

Do any of the scenes with the other Queens of Naboo add much to the story?

The other Queens could be further decoys if the scenes are needed.

Would the Emperor allow the destruction of his (supposed) planet of origin?

I can't think of a better way of setting an example to the rest of the Galaxy, tyranny begins at home.

Sure, Tarkin came up with the plan but I could see Palpatine giving the scheme his blessing.

Palpatine doesn't need public approval at that point, he wants to control the galaxy through fear.

Showing that even his own people weren't safe from his destructive whims would polarise opinion, the Rebels would be more rebellious but the floating systems would be less likely to join in the fight.

Bail Organa was going to be in TPM and Adrian Dunbar filmed some scenes in the role :

but Lucas either didn't like them or him and his image was retconned into being Bail Antilies in the EU.

If Naboo was to be reduxed into being Alderaan it wouldn't be too difficult to alter Pananka's line refering to Bail one way or the other, Dunbar never appears in any of the final shots anyway.

Dunbar is a good actor I'd like to see the footage, maybe he was another TPM cast member who didn't take to George or visa versa, Ralph Brown described Lucas as "a man lacking in human decency", Terence Stamp was not impressed when he was asked to act to a mop because Lucas had given Nat Portman the day off  (George didn't think her presence was necessary) and Hugh Quarshie was "made an offer he could refuse" to be in AOTC.

rortiz77 said:

Bingowings said:

rortiz77 said:

I made a video time ago trying to sync the opening scenes from TESB with the John Williams music cue "The ice planet Hoth" (that's supposed to be heard there). I changed some shots order, added two new shots and extended one shot in order to make the music fit. Maybe it can give some ideas, maybe not.

In case you are interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhie3MEXvzY

BTW, Ady, in case you are interested I will translate the subtitles for TESB Revisited to spanish (as I did for ANH).

There's a few jump cuts in there but on the whole it works a treat, a great piece of work.

The music might be even more in sync if the surplus to requirements shot of Han's Tauntaun was removed.

We can hear him on Luke's comlink, we see him ride the thing into the base, do we really have to see the model (and it's not a very good shot) stomping around far, far away?

 

 

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. I agree, the "Han on Tauntaun from a distance" shot seems totally out of place, it has always bugged me. Maybe the music sync would be better without it, I'm not sure. I did this video quite long ago even though I published it on Youtube three months ago.

And the jump cuts are due to my limited knowledge on video/audio editing.

It might be worth giving it another go and even attempting to eliminate the double impact to see what it's like too.

I'm no expert on video/audio editing either (I'd love to be able to seperate music tracks from the rest of the sound mix for example, some films are wrecked by too much, too loud or inappropriate music) but little mini projects like yours A) help you gain new skills and you already have a degree of flair in that department B) serve as illustrations to other editors like Adywan about what might work in their projects.

It was nice to hear the music cues in the place that Williams intended them to be.

TheoOdo said:

Naboo is retitled "Alderaan", giving the planet some sense of relevance next to the original series. You could argue that Naboo doesn't look like Alderaan, but you have to realise that this fan edit would constitute and alternate canon. The more high-tech cities of Alderaan undoubtedly exist, but away from the magnificent and historical palace of it's royalty featured here.

* Also, some creative voice editing can be used to make reference appear to Alderaan actually in the film. For example Panaka mentions later that a senator from Alderaan is being considered for the position of chancellor. Use this sound bite earlier in the film and Panaka could in fact say "Alderaan has no army!" as opposed to "We have no army!". I think this works even better, because we know this to be true from the original series as well.

I love this idea a lot.

Giving Alderaan large chunks of screen time makes us care a lot more about the place when it's destroyed in ANH and from space the two places look very similar.

It also explains the lack of mention of Naboo and it's people in the OT.

Making this one change binds the saga closer together.

Oh for Zod's sake!

It's Ady's fan edit, he can put pink TIE fighters in with yellow spots on if he wants.

He has made his justification for going with grey and that is surely enough for a fan edit.

If other people want to have ESB:R with blue TIE fighters they can (giving credit where it is due) put them back in themselves.

Some of the people posting on here seem to act as if this the Adywan Pizza Palace where you can insist on the toppings you demand.

These threads are for making suggestions, not barking orders at the poor chap.

We aren't paying him for these fan edits so there isn't any space for foot stomping.

PS. Remember the spinach, olives and extra Jalapenos on mine or else!

rortiz77 said:

I made a video time ago trying to sync the opening scenes from TESB with the John Williams music cue "The ice planet Hoth" (that's supposed to be heard there). I changed some shots order, added two new shots and extended one shot in order to make the music fit. Maybe it can give some ideas, maybe not.

In case you are interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhie3MEXvzY

BTW, Ady, in case you are interested I will translate the subtitles for TESB Revisited to spanish (as I did for ANH).

There's a few jump cuts in there but on the whole it works a treat, a great piece of work.

The music might be even more in sync if the surplus to requirements shot of Han's Tauntaun was removed.

We can hear him on Luke's comlink, we see him ride the thing into the base, do we really have to see the model (and it's not a very good shot) stomping around far, far away?

I was always under the impression that the Rebel fleet was comprised of Republican era ships which were salvaged and maintained/modified by the Alliance because they couldn't get new ships.

I would love to see some Y-Wings with all their streamlined panels intact  :

http://flickr.com/photos/rocketseason/sets/72157608098402281/

(one of the few welcome ideas in the new Clone Wars TV series) and some fresh off the production line X, A, B wings etc in the prequels.

I wouldn't even mind seeing some tatty ROTS ships in ROTJ:R but that's for another thread.

I would also like Jengo Fett to be Boba Fett and never remove his mask or be a child or be the template for the clones.

It would be nice to have one mystery guy in the saga remain a mystery.

Could I dare to be obvious by making Grievous into what is left of Darth Maul thus padding his character into more of a threat?

As a cyborg foe of the Jedi he could later on be confused with Vader in the public eye so some of the stories of Vader hunting down Jedi could be attributed to him because of the difficulty of communication during a Galactic war, (especially if he sounded like James Earl Jones).

It did seem odd that during the prequels lots of cool looking bad guys turned up with stronger fighting skill than Vader in the original trilogy and with each film at least one of them is knocked out.

Lucas also said that the reason for the sabre duels being more energetic in the prequels was down (in part) to the combatants in the original trilogy being an old man, a cyborg and a partly trained youth.

In the prequels we see Dooku (older than Obi-Wan in the original trilogy) leaping about like a madman and a cyborg who isn't even a Jedi or a Sith taking down the Jedi in their prime.

There is a story (and I'm not sure if this is true) that the some of the people in the art department wanted to give Grievous Maul's eyes but Lucas hated the idea.

It would give the Grievous character a bit more validity if he is what is left of a fully trained Sith Lord,  (which Dooku has restored as a cyborg) though how one could account for Dooku's agility is beyond me.

When I saw the trailers and some of the leaked production photos from TPM my speculations of what would happen were very different to the final film.

The Trade Federation Tank prop was shown at the studio with some Tatooine looking items in one photograph I saw which lead me to believe that the Trade Federation Battledroids would invade Tatooine at some point, which would justify the anti-droid sentiment shown in ANH.

The Magnoliafan take on the Federation (that they were dealing in slavery) would tie in with Anakin's slave background too.

Perhaps by recolouring some scenes from AOTC it might be possible to create a crisis on Tatooine which would create a more dramatic origin story for Anakin.

The Geonosians are seen in AOTC as being fond of Gladitorial combat, which could extend to Pod Racing.

So one possible huge re-jig would be to put the Trade Federation primarily into the hands of the Geonosians instead of the Neimodians (who could be just a lesser member race).

This would return to the original intent of the battle droids being built to resemble their masters.

I also assumed that the lightsabre duel between Maul, Qui-Gon and Obi Wan was taking place on a star ship.

It might be possible to alter the scenes at the beginning of the film as seen and cutting into the duel (with adjustments) so that the Jedi encounter the Sith Lord on the Trade Federation ship.

I also assumed that all the Naboo hanger scenes would happen at the same time (surely the Trade Federation would have destroyed or disabled the Naboo fighters rather than just leave them hanging there to be launched against them at the end of the film).

So one possible alteration would be to start the film on Coruscant with Queen Amidala protesting about the blockade of her planet. She goes (with a Jedi escort and the Gungan Ambassador Jar-Jar) to effect a liberation of her planet but is hijacked on route and forced to land on Tatooine which has already fallen to the Federation. They meet up with Anakin, gain the parts they need, Anakin joins the Jedi hoping to liberate Tatooine at a later date (giving Anakin a noble intention for leaving his mother behind rather than just seeing the stars).

As they escape they encounter a Sith Lord who is working with the Federation (I'd love to be able to put the Obi-Wan vs Maul scene that only happened in this publicity photo but I haven't a clue how).

I find it hard to believe that they flew Ewan over to Tunisia just to film a few shots outside Amidala's ship.

They break through the blockade and create a hasty alliance with the Gungans. The Gungan's attack the bulk of the droid army, The Jedi attempt to shut down the shields for Trade Federation command ship and encounter battle droids (which should rarely if ever speak and certainly should not be the comic relief goons as seen in the theatrical version...incidently they do sound good in German) and finally the Sith Lord they first encountered on Tatooine, the Naboo fighters clear the path for the Jedi and take on the full Federation fleet (not just one ship making it an more hopless fight) and the Queen and her troops storm the palace.

Jar-Jar would have a less prominant role and would be dubbed to turn him in a dignified but quixotic ambassador.

Anakin's dreams of liberating the slaves on Tatooine would come true with a tragic twist in the next film as Geonosis is now Tatooine the site of the first big battle of the Clone Wars.

The Federation fleet would retreat once it's command ship is lost leaving their Neimodian lackys to take the blame.

The scene with Dooku forming the Seperatists would be moved to a meeting on Tatooine placing Dooku into the first film and making it seem as he is the prime Sith Lord.

I'd remove all Sidious scenes from the first film and have him make his first appearence in the second film.

I'd also remove or alter all the joke alien pod racers and have them all gladiator slaves of the Federation.

As in most re-edits Jake Lloyd's performances would need to be toned down to make him less annoying and the Jedi Temple scenes would be placed at the end of the film (minus Qui Gon) with Obi-wan being reluctantly being allowed to school Anakin because of his obvious nascent Jedi abilities  (not because of the dreaded midichlorians).

I'd also would like Darth Maul speak more by sampling some dialogue from the PSone game (where I believe he has more to say) and the Eulogy To Fear (no not the one in Dune) heard in the trailer which (as in the trailer) balances Yoda's warning about fear leading to the Dark Side.

I've started a thread to this aim.

Yes, it's years off but it keeps this thread aimed at ESB:R and ROTJ:R and gives Ady and others a place to read our ideas which might help them someway down the line.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Prequel-Radical-Redux-Ideas-Thread/topic/9911/

With Adywan announcing his intention to remove Threepio from his versions of Episodes I and II and not having Anakin build him, the time has come for this thread to be born.

Though his versions are years away I thought it would be a good idea for Adywan and others who wish to change the prequels in an ambitious way (rather than nibbling at the edges) to read our ideas of what might be done.

I shall pop my ideas on here in a few days time but I thought I'd not waste a moment in starting this thread.

Let your imaginations soar here and let the editors decide what's actually possible and appealing to them.

Perhaps by pulling together we can rescue the prequel trilogy from the netherworld of epic cinema gone wrong.

What with Ady's comments about what he intends to do with Threepio in the prequels should we enter ideas here or set up a seperate thread?

I know it's a long way off and he's sure to be bursting with ideas but he seems to be open to outside input, I certainly hope this thread has helped him.

kenkraly2007 said:

Look I'm sorry but I am not complaning about the 2004 dvd releases like everybuddy else is. It's been 4 years since they came out stop complaning about them and be happy with the releases and not so nagitve.

Why should other people stop talking about something they are unhappy about just because you are happy about it?

These films have been sold to and bought by fans in so many different formats over the years, the 2004 release was a hideous mistake and a rip-off for the majority of people who were buying the films again.

The original versions should have been in the set, the colour shouldn't have been vandalised and the questionable alteration of Seb Shaw to Hayden Christensen in the Endor celebrations should have been an optional extra.

As for it being a four year old release, remember that this set has been re-released unfixed and people are still buying it and discovering for the first time just how mucked up these sets are.

+++Post Script+++

Ady beat me to it.

lordjedi said:

MotherGunner said:

It would be really cool if Obi-wan stopped calling vader "Darth".   Maybe remove this and modify his face so he doesnt move his mouth?

 

"You can't win" "If you strike me down..."

Yeah, it's to bad Lucas changed it from a name to a title, huh.

 

It could be argued that Obi Wan is rubbing his former pupil's nose in it by constantly refering to his Sith title in much the same way Mace Windu does when he calls Palpatine "My Lord".