Bingowings

Darth Solo said:

Or how about a panning shot of the surrounding area as viewed through Lukes eyes with a brief snow drift with wind SFX, as if to show Luke is still scanning his surroundings during the conversation, and misses the approaching Wampa?

That'll do, there must be plenty of films you could pull a suitable snowscape from (good thinking that Red chap).

Octorox said:

adywan said:

Midichlorians took away all the mysticism that the force once had before the PT. Thanks to that damn saga people now think of the force on a completely different level. It didn't need to be bloody microscopic lifeforms that give people the power to use the force.  In the OT the force had a spiritual and religious nature about it whereas the PT took away all that and replaced it with a scientific explanation. Some people had the ability to use the force while others didn't. Its the same in every day life here. But that didn't need to be explained away as the ones that could use the force had a higher midibloodychlorian count. The OT had the spiritualism aspect and the PT need to be changed to reflect that. There will be no midichlorians in the PT revisited saga. All you have to do is remember Yodas speech about the force in ESB. No midichlorians

For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you...me...the tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and the ship!

Can you imagine that same speech in the PT?

For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Create it and make it grow the midichlorians do. Their energy inside us it is. Symbiotic beings are we... this crude matter we are not. Embrace your inner midichlorians you must. Here, between you...me...the tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and the ship!

I agree that the technology seems light years ahead of what we see in the OT. GL should have shown how the clone wars caused the shift in technology and that times became hard and things technologically wise had come to a standstill. Things in ROTS should have had the "lived in" look that they did in the OT. The clone wars would have used a lot of resources and money and the Empire was starting to take a grip. The end shot in ROTS shouldn't have shown the Death Star being created but instead a vast shipyard of the Imperial fleet being built (which it will do in my edit). So all available money was being ploughed into creating the Empire. The whole ending of that movie was just too rushed to tie up all the loose ends

My biggest gripes with the tech are the shape shifting bionicle droids and other superfuturistic "war of the worlds" type designs. why is Vader a wheezing clunky metal man when Grevious could climb up walls and fight 4 jedi at once? I really want to see some rebel ships in prime condition too. I think the seperatists should use more of those.

 

The Clone Wars series has already shown Y-Wings (in their prime) being used by the Republic http://flickr.com/photos/rocketseason/sets/72157608098402281/

It would be nice to see some more though and perhaps on the otherside.

Removing all reference to muddy chlorines is relatively simple and has proven to work in earlier edits (the Slumberland Edits are one example where I didn't really notice the references being cut until after the event).

adywan said:

Bingowings said:

Sevb32 said:

Octorox said:

Sevb32 said:

the idea of 3po not appearing til ROTS doesn't bug me, but how will you be able to pull that off with all the scenes he's appeared in?

 

When I first heard Anakin built (actually rebuilt) C-3PO I cringed because it seemed contrived, but that was only because I saw the OT first, if I had seen Episode 1 first it would not seem so small and contrived, it works if you watch them from 1-6 for the first time. It's also symbolic of what Anakin largely becomes. The droids are Anakin and Padme's and they are left with the Organas and Captain Antilles at the end of EP3. Why is that so bad, or hard for some people?

Owen not recognizing 3PO is a no-brainer, it's 22 years since he's seen him, C3PO is gold plated, a common looking droid and not the grungy thing he was 22 years prior. Owen seems to regard droids as only appliances anyway, and never even is told 3PO's name by the time he dies a day or two later in ANH.

 

It all just seems a bit too convenient. 3PO does or says nothing important in all of the PT. He could probably be painted out frame by frame. I would however like to see 3PO in all three movies. Just have him property of Padme throughout the PT, that way some of his interactions with R2 could be preserved.

 

But, like I said, would it still seem so convenient if you had not seen the OT first?

 

On the EU issue, it's strange to me why EU doesn't count and carries no weight of truth to some people, but yet a fanedit does.

Sorry to be a git about it but this thread is really about ESB:R, other threads are out there for other projects (I'm as guilty as anyone of going a bit OT here but it would be a shame if this thread became bogged down in discussions which could and should take place somewhere else).

I think I mentioned elsewhere but for ESB I am rather keen to get rid of that pointless tiny shot of Han on his Tauntaun as he is talking to Luke just before the Wampa attack.

We hear him speaking, so we don't need to see him and it is a really bad special effects shot.

It could be replaced if the sound mix can't be jigged to account for the missing frames but as it stands it sticks out like a sore thumb (for me).

 

But what you replace it with? It isn't just a case of changing the sound to account for missing frames but how about the missing frames between the two shots of Luke? pretty much impossible because the jump would stick out like a sore thumb. I have been able to fix some missing frames of Luke in the wampa cave where one shot was split in two from the original to add the wampa footage and 5 frames became lost, but that was just 5 frames.

As you can see it would be impossible to remove that shot of Han without causing a major problem.

Perhaps you could make a new shot (yes it's more work and I know you already have a lot on your plate) just a snow shot or a snow shot with some mysterious movement to set up the Wampa stomp. Alternatively you could swap a shot from the sequence where Han goes out looking for Luke (where perhaps a tiny long distance shot of Han might add to the feeling of desolation during at that point in the story where it makes more sense) but anything would be better than that shot at that point.

The really hard work option would be attempting to get the Tauntaun's head to drift in (via a model insert) and out of the shots to cover the missing frames.

Great work at bringing back those frames, it's always nice to see more Mark even if it is just a few frames.

Sevb32 said:

Octorox said:

Sevb32 said:

the idea of 3po not appearing til ROTS doesn't bug me, but how will you be able to pull that off with all the scenes he's appeared in?

 

When I first heard Anakin built (actually rebuilt) C-3PO I cringed because it seemed contrived, but that was only because I saw the OT first, if I had seen Episode 1 first it would not seem so small and contrived, it works if you watch them from 1-6 for the first time. It's also symbolic of what Anakin largely becomes. The droids are Anakin and Padme's and they are left with the Organas and Captain Antilles at the end of EP3. Why is that so bad, or hard for some people?

Owen not recognizing 3PO is a no-brainer, it's 22 years since he's seen him, C3PO is gold plated, a common looking droid and not the grungy thing he was 22 years prior. Owen seems to regard droids as only appliances anyway, and never even is told 3PO's name by the time he dies a day or two later in ANH.

 

It all just seems a bit too convenient. 3PO does or says nothing important in all of the PT. He could probably be painted out frame by frame. I would however like to see 3PO in all three movies. Just have him property of Padme throughout the PT, that way some of his interactions with R2 could be preserved.

 

But, like I said, would it still seem so convenient if you had not seen the OT first?

 

On the EU issue, it's strange to me why EU doesn't count and carries no weight of truth to some people, but yet a fanedit does.

Sorry to be a git about it but this thread is really about ESB:R, other threads are out there for other projects (I'm as guilty as anyone of going a bit OT here but it would be a shame if this thread became bogged down in discussions which could and should take place somewhere else).

I think I mentioned elsewhere but for ESB I am rather keen to get rid of that pointless tiny shot of Han on his Tauntaun as he is talking to Luke just before the Wampa attack.

We hear him speaking, so we don't need to see him and it is a really bad special effects shot.

It could be replaced if the sound mix can't be jigged to account for the missing frames but as it stands it sticks out like a sore thumb (for me).

adywan said:

RoccondilRinon said:

I just found this thread and have to say I love the idea of removing references to Naboo and calling the planet Alderaan. If it can be pulled off, it should be done.

But you would have to remove the end battle from TPM totally for a start. Remember Leia says "Alderaan is peaceful, we have no weapons"  yet the Gungans do and Naboo have starfighters. Then there's the matter of Bail organa. Now in the PT a senator represents the planet. Palpatine is senator for Naboo then becomes chancellor and Padme then takes his place, but Bail is also a senator. There are just too many things that would need to be changed to make Naboo into Alderaan without making the PT even more conflicting with the OT than it is already

 

Leia does say "Alderaan is peaceful" but not pacifist.

It would be understandable if it had a small defence force of short range fighters and a standing defensive army but not enough to mount an offensive attack on anybody else.

Also Leia is speaking after the rise of the Empire where such force may have been outlawed but may have been in existence during the time of the Old Republic .

Either way it's largely academic as Leia isn't being honest.

Alderaan is a key supporter of the heavily armed Rebel Alliance, her own ship has weapons and the crew too can be armed to defend the ship ( all be it in a limited capacity when facing the might of an Imperial Star Destroyer).

She's really saying that Alderaan isn't heavily armed or openly rebelling against the Empire (even if they have some weapons and are secretly rebelling against the Empire).

She follows this dissemblance with an out and out lie about the location of the Rebel base.

So her words aren't a serious impediment for merging both planets into one the only objection that really counts is the tastes and decisions of any editors considering the idea.

Even the multiple representative problem isn't a real obstacle, as I posted earlier the British monarch represents UK in some capacities while the Prime Minister represents the UK in others.

Padme could be the constitutional head of state as Queen (later replaced by Viceroy Bail Organa when she steps down), while Senator Palpatine/ Senator Amidala could be the elected representative in the Senate. When the Republican Senate becomes the Imperial Senate Bail could still be the head of state and his daughter could the elected representative. Each of the Senate pods held several people so this structure could have been similar in all the represented worlds.

So it's more up to you and other editors if you want to run with the idea, there is nothing in OT that really gets in the way of implementing this change but as these are your edits you may not wish to go down that route.

Monroville said:

Again, I think its fine if they were different wampas of perhaps even different sexes.  Like the female hunts while the male eats at home, like lions, but the horn differences more like the difference between cows and bulls.

I know this has been beaten to death, but wouldn't it be easier just to remove the horns from the later "inside the cave" shot

and have the wampa keep the 1st image appearance?  Those horns just don't work!

Ady's horns only become an issue if you are the sort of person who watches a Star Wars film at one frame per 25 minutes on 12 mile wide screen (time to go back to the drawing board then Adywan).

thunderclap said:

Bingowings said:

Thanks for letting me know about the Slumberland edits, (they had somehow fallen off my Radar).

I've started to download them now and I'll give them a good look.

Are they up anywhere in a smaller format (AVI for example) my connection is awful here and it would take forever to get the disc image versions?

I don't know of smaller AVI version.  Sorry.

I finally seen all of them and they are good edits, a few jump cuts and imperfections but many great decisions (some of which I've seen elsewhere).

However they aren't very radical edits, not many plot points are changed so they don't really fall into the subject of this thread which is a search for ideas to really shake up the prequels, rather than sanding down the rough and unsightly edges of the trilogy as it currently exists.

Mackerni said:

That is EXACTLY what I wanted to do ... and I LOVE your ideas...

Could you emerge Yavin IV with Endor? After all, they are both forest planets

You could swap Endor with Alderaan and Yavin with Endor.

It would mean removing the Falcon but here goes.

Dooku and the seperatists were the beginning of the rebel alliance.

They give the founders of the Alliance the plans.

The rebels try to defend Alderaan against the uncomplete Death Star but fall into a trap and get caught between it and the Imperial fleet.

They take massive losses and Alderaan is destroyed.

They retreat to their rebel base to plan a second attack.

Studying the plans they find a weakness in the station.

The Imperials track them to their base in the polar regions of Endoth.

They launch a ground assault apparantly driving them off the planet but this is a ruse to lure the completed station into the system to pick off their fleet.

The Rebels leave a small group of fighters which attacks the station's weak spot ( a large vent which leads the main generator ).

Luke doesn't blow up a Death Star (he's too busy confronting the Emperor and his father).

But he does take part in the defence of Endoth and goes off to face Vader.

 said:

Originally posted by Bingowings:

"It might be easier to put [flying R2] into Jedi than to take it out of the prequel trilogy."

Man, I keep debating with myself over whether or not I like flying R2.  Is it so unreasonable to suspect that, between the PT and OT, the jet system was "removed for the adventurous little droid's own good", or that he used it to navigate the bottom of the swamp on Dagobah?

I really like your suggestion too Bingowings.

EDIT: I made a post earlier about how the Kenobi/Grievous rivalry could have been fleshed out more.  It just occurred to me that rivalry could have been a more fleshed out element of the PT in general.  I mean,  we've got the Kenobi/Grievous rivalry, the Padme/Nute Gunray rivalry, and the Anakin/Dooku rivalry.  Granted, as is, they are not very deeply explored, but if they had been it would have added a lot more depth of character to both our heroes and villains.  The Anakin/Dooku rivalry would have been especially fitting considering Anakin, ironically, ends up replacing Dooku as Palpatine's apprentice.

Cheers Rhikter, I love your ideas too.

The only way I can think of padding out the Nute Gunray/Padme angle would be to go down the Magnoliafan route and re-dub all of his lines so he says more. There isn't enough in the current footage to build upon.

The Anakin/Dooku conflict is almost impossible to pad out visually. There is plenty of extra dialogue that might be used in other productions but very little footage which can be adapted to this aim.

I would like the Obi Wan/Dooku confrontration to be removed, Ewan is very wooden in that scene and the dialogue he delivers adds next to nothing to the plot. Christopher Lee turns out a nice performance in that scene and it would make more sense if Anakin was being tempted by him.

Dooku might sense the same potential in Anakin that Palpatine does and fully realise what would have to happen to himself if Skywalker were become Palpatine's apprentice.

After being rejected his next course of action would be to try to remove him.

Rhikter said:                                                                                                                                                                             I'd never opt for a CG 3PO though.  I think we can all agree that CG 3PO in AotC seemed very "lifeless."

Not to mention headless and gormless.

As for the R2 flying thing, the only instance in which R2 could have made good use of this function in the original trilogy would have been escaping from Jabba's Barge in ROTJ.

As I've said before, I don't mind Ady or anyone else tinkering with Jedi.

It might be easier to put that into Jedi than to take it out of the prequel trilogy.

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Bingowings:

"Another idea that occurred to me was rather than removing Threepio from the prequels perhaps sticking him (the full Gold version) in all of them..."

Hell, it could be pulled off very convincingly if you outsourced it to someone with green-screen experience and got an actor in a decent looking 3PO costume.  Plus, since the actor in the suit would be able to make gestures appropriate to the lines, you would have a level of control over the direction of the character and his function in the story that you would not have if you were just redubbing existing 3PO footage with sampled Anthony Daniels dialogue.  Adywan has already proven his proficiency with changing backgrounds completely, so this could be very feasible.

There are lots of productions with Threepio in them that aren't Star Wars movies (The Making of Star Wars, The Muppet Show, the anti smoking adverts, etc) perhaps the footage could be taken from some of those, cleaned up, colour corrected and scaled to the footage it's being inserted into without using a fan in a suit.

It would be nice to put this material into a true Star Wars film.

adywan said:

Rhikter said:

Everyone need to go to www.woot.com right now!!!!

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(My enjoy dis memorabilia whilesa me wear mesa Let The Cookie Win t-shirt, but my not sure whysa.)

 

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I got that for Xmas last year. Not too bad really

 

Nice to see you on here Adywan.

I hope this thread is giving you some food for thought.

Another idea that occurred to me was rather than removing Threepio from the prequels perhaps sticking him (the full Gold version) in all of them, in the background as Amidala's personal protocol droid or a droid for general senate use (like a presidential Limousine).

He needn't talk much...maybe some dialogue could be used from elsewhere in prequel trilogy or from other Star Wars projects  should he have to speak.

But it makes much more sense for her to own a protocol droid than for Anakin to build one for his mother.

darth_scourge said:

well you might have heard that FanEdit.org has been destroyed by the Empire.

 

Gutted.

 

If I took an original Van Gogh, cut it up, rearranged it, painted in some new bits, and then showed it at a gallery, would I be shot down?

This is a terrible blow as that site (like this forum) went to great lengths to prevent piracy.

It casts a shadow over the fan-edit community and puts the future of this forum in doubt.

Kurgan said:

adywan said:

The spinning starfield is going to go, i'm afraid. It happens in ANH & ESB only. It was gone in ANH:R and i will be doing the same for the one time it appears for ESB:R

 

At the risk of wandering off topic, just this once.

Backstroke Of The West:R would make entertaining viewing. Just take a nice print of ROTS and get some voice actors (if they could keep a straight face) to re-dub the lines from the BOTW subtitles.

If only we could get the original actors in to do it.

TheoOdo said:

I'll never view the prequels as being related, at all with the original series because there's too many plot holes. There's, first of all, the "do you remember your mother", "yes", "but she dies in childbirth", "oh, well, i dunno lol" blunder.

Then of course there's the "he thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved", "what? and remain a slave? gee, uncle owen sure is a dick!" blunder which is also connected to the "how can he make judgements about him leaving tatooine? he never knew him until he came back!" problem.

Then there's the "wait, nothing at all happened to my throat or lungs, why do I need a breathing mask again?" problem. Then there's the "I was trained by yoda...well, actually, i was trained by liam neeson but whatevs lol" and just the overall irreparable fail of the series. No central, identifiable sympathetic main cast and no nasty antagonist. I was ready to accept Darth Maul in that role but that didn't really work out, did it?

We will have to see what Adywan does with ROTJ:R about Leia remembering Pandabear.

I don't have a problem with him adjusting ROTJ (when it makes sense...No spooky Hayden Christensen ghosts please) as it's almost as gone wrong (in it's current form/s) as the prequels in my book.

You could make a case for Leia (being a senator...like her mother before her) during her time in the post seeing heaps of archive recordings of Padme...ergo the images and feelings bit.

As for staying behind...yep that was a big balls up on George's part and one well within his scope of addressing in AOTC.

Maybe there is somewhere a deleted scene where Owen suggests to the pre-Sith Anakin that he should stay on the farm from now on.

But why didn't Lucas have Anakin arrive before his mother's kidnap was obvious?

She could have been out picking mushrooms, the family could have had a chin wag about him leaving the Jedi (which he seems to want to do anyway so he can get married and look after his mother) and then the news comes in about the kidnap. It would have added to Anakin's self loathing if he was just moments too late to prevent her abduction and death.

Now that is a serving suggestion beyond any fan editors ability (unless you get a fan film crew to shoot the missing material with really good look-and-sound-alike actors).

The Yoda thing gets covered in the prequels, it's a bit hamfisted but I'm Ok with Yoda being Kindergarten Jedi and Qui-Gon being Obi-Wan's Graduation Year tutor.

These are all the prequels we are going to get and Jedi is a bit of a mess, that is what fan-edits and this thread are about, making the best of what we have.

C'est la vie.

Josh said:

If only it were so easy bewy.

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Bingowings:

"...you could construct a moment of realisation during the Grevious/Obi Wan duel by dubbing a new line in, adding an eye close up and maybe a very brief flashback and Bingo!"

That's too much plot development to cram into RotS, plus it doesn't do justice to the relationship between the two characters.  If someone did try to do Maul-Grievous I'd like it to be something that unfolds over the course of the PT.  Something along the lines of: Maul and Kenobi meet in TPM, Grievous is then introduced in AotC hell-bent on getting revenge against Kenobi, and then the rivalry is finally ended in RotS.

You know how most television dramas have an "A" story and a "B" story.  The Grievous/Kenobi rivalry could be the "B" story of the PT while the Anakin Skywalker plot would be the "A" story.

Prompting the question of how would you do it?

It sounds great and I don't want to put you off but short of replacing Jengo with Maul Grievous during the Kamino fight which would be a massive undertaking where would he fit?

DarthBo said:

Guys, I'm fairly sure he was kidding.

Plus the Executor looks quite silly in grey.

I think it looks great but as it's been said tonnes of times now this is Adywan's project, he's doing the hard work so he makes the choices.

Sluggo said:

We had a rather lengthy discussion on the Maul/Grevious idea a few years ago.  A lot of folks made a good case for it, and a lot made a good case against it.  I think the concept was ultimately discarded as being impossible to pull off.

Take a look around the old discussions in SW Preservation and General SW Discussion and see if you can find them.

It needn't be that difficult, Adywan removed the red eye lens from every shot of Vader and changed the colour of Artoo's lights in ANH:R (not that I'm down playing how much effort went into that but is show's that it's possible).

Sticking Darth Maul eyes on Grevious would be only slightly more taxing, you could construct a moment of realisation during the Grevious/Obi Wan duel by dubbing a new line in, adding an eye close up and maybe a very brief flashback and Bingo!

Grevious used to be Maul and his sabre prowess and hatred of the Jedi suddenly make sense.

Maul-Grievous looks grand, in fact they all do.

It would be nice in ESB:R, ROTJ:R or Ady's prequel edits if we saw Stormtrooper/Clonetrooper armor actually deflecting the odd laser bolt or two.

I find it difficult to understand why the boys in white bothered to suit up watching all the Star Wars films.

Sure they look good but it seems that Palpatine was sold a dodgy batch.

In a related point it would be nice, either in ROTJ:R or the prequels to see the Royal Guard effectively guard the Emperor. (perhaps in a re-staged Vader choke scene) we all know they look cool but it would be fun to see why.

thunderclap said:

I know Adywan is planning on re-editing the prequels but I'm curious if anyone else here has watched the Slumberland edits?  A lot of what people are suggesting have been done in these cuts.  Adywan may in fact be able to go off these cuts instead of re-doing them completely as the Slumberland edits are quite good.

Thanks for letting me know about the Slumberland edits, (they had somehow fallen off my Radar).

I've started to download them now and I'll give them a good look.

Are they up anywhere in a smaller format (AVI for example) my connection is awful here and it would take forever to get the disc image versions?

TheoOdo said:

TMBTM said:

TheoOdo said:

Naboo is retitled "Alderaan"

In this case Adywan will need to cut the extra OT SE Naboo shoots in his ROTJ revisited.

I think it's a good idea, but it could cause many editing troubles for a result that, perhaps, don't really worth it.

 

Well, that's an '04 addition and after all Adywan's edit was originally started to fix the problems with the '04 edit.

I honestly don't think it'll be missed. I was certainly unhappy to see it there for the first time, but maybe that's just me.

The shot need not be entirely wasted. It could be stuck at the beginning of the celebration scenes in Episode 1 (minus the hideous Gungan cry).

If Tatooine and Geonosis were merged for an altered Episode 2 the Tatooine celebration could be used there to mark the removal of the Federation from that world.

As for the Yoda/Palpatine lightsabre thing, I don't have a problem with the idea (a Jedi uses the Force for defence and even master Jedi would use a lightsabre to defend himself and others). Palpatine would use anything to attack someone in his way, when stealth, scheming and manipulation fail why not use a sabre? His fighting style was interesting and unique too. The main purpose of the fight isn't to kill but to manipulate Anakin into making a final choice by placing himself under Windu's blade so it's inkeeping with the whole Sith way of doing things. It just looks a little clumsy the way that the idea is executed.

I wouldn't have Palpatine maimed into looking the way he does.

It would be difficult to achieve an edit to alter this but I'd have had him slowly transformed into the mess we see him in ROTJ because of advancing age and being consumed by his own evil, rather than getting a Force Lightning blow back.

It might be possible to stick his unaltered face over the top of the prune version in the key scenes of ROTS to get this across.

The naming of Vader scene is really out of place, Palpatine goes from a subtle Mephistophelean performance to a comedy bad guy in a few seconds. He doesn't even match the version we see in ROTJ.

While we are on the subject of things Sith, I'd have Anakin use force lightning on Padme ( I hear some hisses from the readers at this point).

At no point does Vader use this Sith skill in the OT but he chokes people left, right and centre (I've already voiced my hope that Adywan stops Luke from doing the choke move in ROTJ:R).

When I was a child I used to think Vader used this method of killing and torturing people because he himself can not breath unassisted and I still like this idea.

If the old Force choke constantly reminded him of killing his pregnant wife would he keep on doing it, thus rubbing his own nose in it?

If he had used Sith lightning on Padme it would explain the sudden delivery of her babies and even go some way to explaining her death in child birth.

It would also explain why Vader never does it again and underline the horror in Jedi of seeing Palpatine do the same move on Luke.

See it all makes sense now.

I hope?

Lord Riddler said:

Greetings.  I used to run a website called "Wattos Junkyard" back in the late 90's.

 

Anyway, I have been fasinated with the work that has gone into the "Re-Imagining" of these great films and I am a huge fan of the Episode IV version.

 

Seeing this thread, I would have really only one thing to wish for if I was in charge of re-editing "ROTJ".

 

Basically, a visual conflict be seen when Palpatine is killing Luke of Vader's images of his past.  Flashes of Padme, his mother, Qui-Gon etc...

 

It shows an inner conflict and I feel would add much tension to the scene.

 

Anyway, I look forward to conversing with you all.

Something like this, perhaps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZGyFm6zZeU