Bingowings

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Bingowings said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that two random droids coming to a gangster's palace with a message from someone who's a friend of a current prisoner would be commandeered and put to work.  I don't have a problem with the lack of the message - the point of the message was to A) communicate to the audience that Luke is now a Jedi, and b) remind the audience that Solo is imprisoned.  In our theoretical edit, both of these things have already been clearly communicated through Boussh's delivery of Chewie, where Jabba shows off Solo, and through Luke's conversation with dying Yoda.  In this edit, the message is redundant, but we still need the droids there for the sail barge part.

Not exactly because sending the droids of as a gift deliberately puts the droids into position take away the message and the audience doesn't know why Luke sent them there and their capture will seem more of an accident than part of a plot on Luke's part.

Besides the message show's that Luke gave diplomacy a chance and used violence as the last remaining option (short of leaving Han where he was and letting Leia get herself killed or worse still captured and trained by the Emperor).

 

I'm not trying to promote myself but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOnxPTb9sP0&feature=channel_page

This might address some of the things you've brought up...

Yes it's rough, it's meant to illustrate a concept not wow an audience so I'm fine with that.

It does demonstate that to get the scene to work Ben really needs to be indoors or at least near some rocks, his sitting down in thin air looks very wierd (I know he's a ghost so he doesn't need to sit down but sadly George/Sir Alec/Mark/Mr Marquand etc didn't think that through).

I will try to fiddle about with the film myself and put it onto Youtube and compare the various approaches suggested here (and mine will probably look as slick as yours, maybe not even as slick it will be almost my first attempt at this sort of thing).

TMBTM said:

 but I guess it is kind of ridicules that it took about 20 years to make the first one and like 3 years to make the 2nd bigger one

Mmm, maybe we could say that the first Death Star took three years to build also. It is just its "destroyer of world" ultimate weapon that is not fully operational yet at the begining of ANH. Maby the Death Star was a secret base for the Empire for a long time.

I am not a Lucas apologist here, I just try to (desperately) find a solution.

"Until this battle station is fully operation, we are vulnerable" and that was days before it's first firing on Alderaan.

The only way of keeping the Death Star being built in ROTS is to have the second one also being built roughly about the same time, Death Star One, is Fatman to Death Star Two's Little Boy ( I mean in terms of when they are built not in size as DS2 is meant to bigger which would also slow it's building down).

Resources may have been focused on getting the first one finished at a later stage, halting progress on the second one and using the first Death Star to iron out the bugs in the systems.

Diverging a bit onto a different issue, just adding eyelids to the Ewoks does make them more like real creatures :

ChainsawAsh said:

I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that two random droids coming to a gangster's palace with a message from someone who's a friend of a current prisoner would be commandeered and put to work.  I don't have a problem with the lack of the message - the point of the message was to A) communicate to the audience that Luke is now a Jedi, and b) remind the audience that Solo is imprisoned.  In our theoretical edit, both of these things have already been clearly communicated through Boussh's delivery of Chewie, where Jabba shows off Solo, and through Luke's conversation with dying Yoda.  In this edit, the message is redundant, but we still need the droids there for the sail barge part.

Not exactly because sending the droids of as a gift deliberately puts the droids into position take away the message and the audience doesn't know why Luke sent them there and their capture will seem more of an accident than part of a plot on Luke's part.

Besides the message show's that Luke gave diplomacy a chance and used violence as the last remaining option (short of leaving Han where he was and letting Leia get herself killed or worse still captured and trained by the Emperor).

That hits on another problem if the message is never delivered how do the droids get into position to play their part (not that Threepio does much) in the rescue?

Jawa's snatching droids is one thing but I can't believe Jabba or even his cronies would would do something like that.

Sticking the Emperor's arrival so early it does cram in even more exposition at the start and there already is a fair wack but the dialogue does seem to demand it (point taken about keeping the acts seperate but we got a lot of cutting back to Tarkin in ANH and that didn't hurt much).

My instincts say.

Yoda or Vader first (and it's really much of a muchness which) something that could be weighed up by doing a dummy edit.

Yoda or Vader second (depending on what happened first).

Then Luke on Tatooine (in whatever form is possible)

Then the Emperor arriving, then droids, then Boussh, then the rescue, the briefing,  (for those who want the Boba Fett plot part one goes before Leia revives Han but after Chewie gets dropped off, Part two takes place just before the briefing).

Having Yoda first though means that you don't get two Luke scenes right next to each other (you do get a evening followed by a morning with the droids but ANH had that sort of thing anyway).

TMBTM said:

Obi pictures, on Tatooine,  are nice but I think that to make the job easier and more realistic, that scene should be at night. With only few light inside Obi's hut, to fit better with the characters.

Once again a really nice idea on paper, firstly because when Luke started his journey it was in the bright glow of a youth looking to the future with some optimism and now he's a seasoned and slightly broken older man looking to the future with understandable dread, and we haven't seen Ben's hut in the dark so it would look familiar but different.

But if mixing one scene to the location of another is hard enough try doing it when the location was never recorded lit for night, it would make an already difficult job almost impossible.

Though I will give it a try, naturally ;-)

Not as bad as I thought and I'm getting better at the shimmer (even if it has shaved the top of Ben's hairpiece off) maybe you experts out there can do it better?

Ripplin said:

ChainsawAsh said:

The pacing problem with opening on Yoda's scene is the incredible amount of honestly boring exhibition you get with that scene, which is fine if you're already engaged in the story, but to start it off like that is asking a little much of the audience.

Good point. The movie wouldn't exactly start with a bang that way.

 

I agree but it doesn't start with a bang with Vader either, at least Empire starts has a hard thump near the beginning, whichever way it's cut Jedi lacks the kick that all the others have. So it's a choice of exposition scene, you could start with Chewie being dropped off (there's a bit of drama there, not enough really though) but that buggers up the Jabba introduction.

It's one of the reasons why I suggested some sort of dogfight at the beginning showing the Rebels are constantly being tracked, shot down and running, just to give the film a punchier beginning.

Lucas really screwed up on this one.

ChainsawAsh said:

Bingowings said:

Ripplin said:

I likes! :D

I would like to ask, though, since I may have missed it; what is the thinking/rationale behind Luke talking to Obi-Wan in his Tatooine home rather than on Dagobah?

The idea came from people wishing to have the film start on Dagobah, with Yoda's death (to create the impression that Luke has been finishing his training).

Then comes the Darth at the Death Star scene.

Then Luke returns to Tatooine sending the droids to Jabba. I thought it would be a nice bookend to Luke getting his father's lightsabre and getting the first half of the story about his dad in Ben's hut if he built his new lightsabre and got the full story about his dad in the same place.

He is about to save Han but has doubts because of losing Yoda and finding out about his father.

So Ben returns to his home to give Luke a bit of a lift before the battle to come, besides I was never happy with Ben wandering around in the swamp like that it just seemed a bit weird (more like he's retired and planting cabbages than actually being a ghost).

It's a good excuse for why all of Ben's stuff is still around (the Sandpeople and the Jawas won't go near the place because it's literally a haunted house).

Then comes the droids on route to the palace.

Chewie is delivered by Boushh etc and Luke rescues them.

Having Leia's relationship to Luke revealed on Tatooine give him and us a bit of a break between revelations (hopefully making them easier to swallow) and keeps up the suspence about who the other is for a bit longer too.

Sort of - this progression causes pacing issues, unfortunately.

What works better is:

- Start off with Vader visiting the Death Star
- Boushh delivers Chewie (paint out Threepio, since he's not there yet)
- Luke on Dagobah, Yoda dies
- Leia rescues Han, is captured (again, paint out Threepio)
- Han talks with Chewie
- Luke lands on Tatooine, after getting out of X-Wing says "I can't do it R2" then hears Obi-Wan from inside the hut, goes inside and has conversation with Obi-Wan (could also start inside hut)
- Droids go to Jabba's palace, get captured ("message" is never delivered)
- Luke arrives at the palace, Rancor, Sarlacc Pit
- Emperor arrives on Death Star
- Luke arrives at the meeting (greeting part goes first), then briefing commences, ending with a nervous pause after "General Solo, is your srike team assembled?"

The rest of the movie would pretty much play out without more drastic structuring changes, but obviously with toned-down kiddie B.S.

Presumably Boussh's lines are translated via subtitles?

Otherwise you need Threepio there to do what he is designed to do (translate) that's a lot of lines in Huttese to sit through without hearing any human speak and does give Threepio less to do.

Not unless you recolour Threepio, give him a different voice (a bit like this guy/girl :

and have the Hutt destroy this protocol droid leaving an opening on the employment register for Threepio to nervously fill.

I actually prefer the whole ghost scene in Ben's house (R2 is in the hut anyway to record the message and to take delivery of Luke's new toy. Threepio is outside because like Bail Antilles a generation before Luke can't trust him not to blurt out a secret) but as I described earlier it's very difficult to do convincingly.

I can't really see as yet the pacing problem other than not a shot has been fired until Boushh enters the palace but that goes with the film in it's current form and starting with Vader is no different from starting with Yoda in terms of mood both are downer openings, one with a new big weapon thingy and another with Luke becoming the only Jedi left alive.

Empire wasn't hurt by having Vader turn up well into the movie so I can't see Jedi being hurt by it either.

Octorox said:

Bingowings said:

mrbenja0618 said:

Have a question.... Would everyone prefer me to do the Animated (A.K.A. storybook edition) to all six movies and not the Redemption trilogy I'm working on?

 Going by the few images I can see I personally prefer yours (taste being subjective other people may prefer this version) but there is room for more than one take on the same great idea.

 

Well I was going for more of a "hand drawn" look while his looks more painted.

Indeed and it looks very good.

It reminds me of some of the work of Jorge Zaffino, I was just expressing a personal preference for a more painterly style.

As I said both approaches have merit.

TLSO said:

RE: the Sail Barge scenes - is the sand supposed to look that orange? Just seems weird to me. In the other movies I remember it a lot lighter.

I'm sure there are many different colours of sand on a desert world.

doubleofive said:

Bingowings said:

TLSO said:

Haha I actually figured that would happen to me. :P Only I was on Ubuntu, and I was too lazy to boot Windows so I could tool around in PhotoShop.

I'm pretty close to doubling up onto Ubuntu myself after seeing the better half having such a great time with it.

There is a lot of great free software on that system.

Photoshop is the only thing keeping me on Windows at home.  I don't play my PC games anymore.

I'm a Mac user and the one of the few things keeping me on OS X is Adobe produce, I've never played games on my machine (there aren't many anyway) but there are Adobesque programs on Ubuntu going for free.

Cinelerra looks particularly useful.

TLSO said:

Haha I actually figured that would happen to me. :P Only I was on Ubuntu, and I was too lazy to boot Windows so I could tool around in PhotoShop.

I'm pretty close to doubling up onto Ubuntu myself after seeing the better half having such a great time with it.

There is a lot of great free software on that system.

mrbenja0618 said:

Have a question.... Would everyone prefer me to do the Animated (A.K.A. storybook edition) to all six movies and not the Redemption trilogy I'm working on?

 Going by the few images I can see I personally prefer yours (taste being subjective other people may prefer this version) but there is room for more than one take on the same great idea.

Ripplin said:

I likes! :D

I would like to ask, though, since I may have missed it; what is the thinking/rationale behind Luke talking to Obi-Wan in his Tatooine home rather than on Dagobah?

The idea came from people wishing to have the film start on Dagobah, with Yoda's death (to create the impression that Luke has been finishing his training).

Then comes the Darth at the Death Star scene.

Then Luke returns to Tatooine sending the droids to Jabba. I thought it would be a nice bookend to Luke getting his father's lightsabre and getting the first half of the story about his dad in Ben's hut if he built his new lightsabre and got the full story about his dad in the same place.

He is about to save Han but has doubts because of losing Yoda and finding out about his father.

So Ben returns to his home to give Luke a bit of a lift before the battle to come, besides I was never happy with Ben wandering around in the swamp like that it just seemed a bit weird (more like he's retired and planting cabbages than actually being a ghost).

It's a good excuse for why all of Ben's stuff is still around (the Sandpeople and the Jawas won't go near the place because it's literally a haunted house).

Then comes the droids on route to the palace.

Chewie is delivered by Boushh etc and Luke rescues them.

Having Leia's relationship to Luke revealed on Tatooine gives him and us a bit of a break between revelations (hopefully making them easier to swallow) and keeps up the suspence about who the other is for a bit longer too.

Not perfect but a little storyboard of how Obi-Wan can now haunt his hut:

"Mr Marquand can we take that again? We appear to have an obviously fake arm in shot!" 

That shot really need fixing, it looks like Vader's hand is a glove stuffed with newspaper and is sticking directly out of his shoulder on a wooden stick.

Yeah, I might redo that Obi-Wan/Luke mock up again it was weird how much the lighting matched up and if I spent a good couple of hours on it I might be able to do a more convincing background but Ben was taken from the studio photo and I'm not sure how to do the glow right.

I know, Why don't you give it a stab Vaderios ;-)

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Bingowings said:

ben_danger said:

Bingowings said:

It would be great to see old Ben back on Tatooine where the story began (from a certain point of view) one more time.

Shame it couldn't be back at Ben's old hermitage.

 

surely that could work? if someone were to move him to tatooine, like somethingstarwarsrelated did, they could make a matt of bens homestead based on the one we see in ANH? the x wing could even land there?

 

The difficulty is moving the actor's around the set in a realistic fashion.

Ben might be doable (he is a ghost so the audiance expects a small degree of missmatch, but to do look right you'd have to get a real actor in a real set and mix in Mark's performance in a convincing way.

More hybrid fan film/fan edit action, not impossible but really hard work to pull off.

This is a really rough knock up but it can be done is the background is in sync with the foreground image which is hard enough to do with one frame but even harder in a long sequence.

 

That's why I've suggested outside...at night...it would be much easier to make it look convincing. The lighting would basically be the same. If Adywan could change out the Tatooine skies in ANH:R and make it look seemless...well, I bet he could pull off the Tatooine night skies...

It might be easier but then you lose some of (if not most of) the point moving the location.

The strength of the idea comes from being in the same room where the journey really began. He was given his father's sabre in that room he took on his father's quest in that room, now he is building his own sword and starting his own quest in the same room and in that room he gets the final part of the story Ben started to tell him all those years ago.

Outside looking up at the suns would have only some of that power.

Once again however don't underestimate the power of the fan film maker.

The plans of the simple set and lots of photographic resources are on record and it could be remade and refilmed to match the Dagobah sequence by a skilled camera man and Lukes glove could be replaced with a different hand but it's a LOT of work.

Ziz said:

Actually, I think that matte was painted for the deleted Sandstorm scene.

And the bit about Luke building his saber with spare parts in Ben's attic explains why his ROTJ saber looks so much like Ben's ANH saber.

I may be wrong but I can't see how that matte would work in that context.

The skiff takes them to their ships (in a sandstorm) and they get in them and leave so why the daylight and the hole for live action filming to be plopped in?

It fits in with the cave story much better but who cares as either option is beyond restoration without very good look and sound alike actors or time travel, and I'm just a nerd and not very knowledgable about such things, well not on this planet, in fact I'm not very sure which planet I'm on...

guitarfan01 said:

I suppose you could go through it frame by frame in photoshop, selecting certain elements and separating them out into layers, then desaturating only the layers you want to.

But that would be quite a job to do.  Only take about twenty years.

Of course, maybe that would only be necessary for certain shots.

Or a group of about twenty people could do it in one year (or you could do batch alterations and one person could do it as quickly as their computer speed and storage would allow).

darthmunky said:

Bingowings said:

It would be great to see old Ben back on Tatooine where the story began (from a certain point of view) one more time.

Shame it couldn't be back at Ben's old hermitage.

 

Well story-wise, that is where Luke is supposed to have went to build his new lightsaber. Obi Wan had all the parts necessary to build a lightsaber back at his house. I'm not sure if it was in the original script or not but there was a good little paragraph about this in my Star Wars visual dictionary.

 

There was meant to be a scene at the beginning of the film where we saw Luke finish building his new sabre in a cave on Tatooine.

This matte was painted for that scene.

 Here is the prop lightsabre which slides and snaps together :

 But it makes cleaner narrative sense to have that scene at Ben's hut, like in the novelisation (for the reasons you state and because it's where Luke started to learn about his father and begin his journey).

The same goes with the ghost scene.

ben_danger said:

Bingowings said:

It would be great to see old Ben back on Tatooine where the story began (from a certain point of view) one more time.

Shame it couldn't be back at Ben's old hermitage.

 

surely that could work? if someone were to move him to tatooine, like somethingstarwarsrelated did, they could make a matt of bens homestead based on the one we see in ANH? the x wing could even land there?

 

The difficulty is moving the actor's around the set in a realistic fashion.

Ben might be doable (he is a ghost so the audiance expects a small degree of missmatch, but to do look right you'd have to get a real actor in a real set and mix in Mark's performance in a convincing way.

More hybrid fan film/fan edit action, not impossible but really hard work to pull off.

This is a really rough knock up but it can be done is the background is in sync with the foreground image which is hard enough to do with one frame but even harder in a long sequence.

vaderios said:

Bingowings said:

...Jedi is as bad in it's way as any of the prequels.

God damn its worst.

 

-Angel

 

I still think that the original cast and Ian's Emperor lift it above the worst bits of the prequel trilogy, it still has spirit, something which hardly appears in the prequels.

DarthBo said:

Bingowings said:

Here's a link to novel artwork (which looked much better in my opinion) I shan't put it up as it's huge.

http://the-trukstop.com/articles/2008/images/star_wars_wallpaper_3/sote.jpg 

That got me a pair of boobies 0_0

Removing the space at the end of your link did the trick though ^_^

In space no one can hear your boobs, I think I've fixed it now.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

ChainsawAsh said:

(The Fan-O-Matic thread is even more radical, changing Ben's scene to take place on Tatooine, though I think that's technically infeasible given the footage available)

 

 I'm actually not sure about that yet... ;)

It's Obi-wan's transparency issue isn't it? Well, I've looked at that scene pretty closely and believe it or not Obi-wan is only transparent in a handful of shots. I *think* it could actually be worked around.

It might even be possible to have Obi-wan simply standing through the entire conversation. You could have Obi-wan kind of fade/flicker in and out using a still image of his body while using his talking head. Does that make sense? I've have to try and make a rough version of this...

Now of course even if all of that worked out it still may not look right...having to do so much roto-ing and all of that...

It would be great to see old Ben back on Tatooine where the story began (from a certain point of view) one more time.

Shame it couldn't be back at Ben's old hermitage.

Octorox said:

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Octorox said:

Yeah. I still feel that the scope of some of these edits is beyond an OT revisited projects. The revisited projects have generally been about fixing and adding, not moving around and taking away. I guess if Ady did a Purist DVD9 for this edit I wouldn't mind the radical changes however I couldn't consider it the "definitive edition of ROTJ" like I do with ANH because if you change too much it ceases to become ROTJ anymore. small tweaks along the way like the ADM prequel edits I wouldn't mind but I wouldn't want to see the movie completely gutted and rearranged. I'd prefer another editor tackle that or even Ady on a separate project.

Well, just be aware that Adywan will be changing *some* things...for example: the ending will be different...he's said before that he's going to *attempt* to kill Lando in the falcon. And of course, he's also said that the PT will be getting a complete make over...

I know my version is pretty out there...*I* don't want all of the changes I've done in Adywan's edit.  :)

 

....Kill Lando? maybe as an extra but come on... there better be a Purist version of this :( As for the PT I don't care because they don't need the FX work. Adywan's PT edits can be pure fan edits IMO but I've always seen the Revisited OT as "Special Editions" more than true fanedits.

It's how he see's it that counts.

He has already done cleaned up versions of the films as they stand so the Revisited set are his take and he went on record as saying that Jedi is as bad in it's way as any of the prequels.

When he is finished someone will no doubt take the them and mix and merge them to make even more versions, that's the nature of the fan-editing beast.