Bingowings

Ripplin said:

ChainsawAsh said:

The pacing problem with opening on Yoda's scene is the incredible amount of honestly boring exhibition you get with that scene, which is fine if you're already engaged in the story, but to start it off like that is asking a little much of the audience.

Good point. The movie wouldn't exactly start with a bang that way.

 

I agree but it doesn't start with a bang with Vader either, at least Empire starts has a hard thump near the beginning, whichever way it's cut Jedi lacks the kick that all the others have. So it's a choice of exposition scene, you could start with Chewie being dropped off (there's a bit of drama there, not enough really though) but that buggers up the Jabba introduction.

It's one of the reasons why I suggested some sort of dogfight at the beginning showing the Rebels are constantly being tracked, shot down and running, just to give the film a punchier beginning.

Lucas really screwed up on this one.

ChainsawAsh said:

Bingowings said:

Ripplin said:

I likes! :D

I would like to ask, though, since I may have missed it; what is the thinking/rationale behind Luke talking to Obi-Wan in his Tatooine home rather than on Dagobah?

The idea came from people wishing to have the film start on Dagobah, with Yoda's death (to create the impression that Luke has been finishing his training).

Then comes the Darth at the Death Star scene.

Then Luke returns to Tatooine sending the droids to Jabba. I thought it would be a nice bookend to Luke getting his father's lightsabre and getting the first half of the story about his dad in Ben's hut if he built his new lightsabre and got the full story about his dad in the same place.

He is about to save Han but has doubts because of losing Yoda and finding out about his father.

So Ben returns to his home to give Luke a bit of a lift before the battle to come, besides I was never happy with Ben wandering around in the swamp like that it just seemed a bit weird (more like he's retired and planting cabbages than actually being a ghost).

It's a good excuse for why all of Ben's stuff is still around (the Sandpeople and the Jawas won't go near the place because it's literally a haunted house).

Then comes the droids on route to the palace.

Chewie is delivered by Boushh etc and Luke rescues them.

Having Leia's relationship to Luke revealed on Tatooine give him and us a bit of a break between revelations (hopefully making them easier to swallow) and keeps up the suspence about who the other is for a bit longer too.

Sort of - this progression causes pacing issues, unfortunately.

What works better is:

- Start off with Vader visiting the Death Star
- Boushh delivers Chewie (paint out Threepio, since he's not there yet)
- Luke on Dagobah, Yoda dies
- Leia rescues Han, is captured (again, paint out Threepio)
- Han talks with Chewie
- Luke lands on Tatooine, after getting out of X-Wing says "I can't do it R2" then hears Obi-Wan from inside the hut, goes inside and has conversation with Obi-Wan (could also start inside hut)
- Droids go to Jabba's palace, get captured ("message" is never delivered)
- Luke arrives at the palace, Rancor, Sarlacc Pit
- Emperor arrives on Death Star
- Luke arrives at the meeting (greeting part goes first), then briefing commences, ending with a nervous pause after "General Solo, is your srike team assembled?"

The rest of the movie would pretty much play out without more drastic structuring changes, but obviously with toned-down kiddie B.S.

Presumably Boussh's lines are translated via subtitles?

Otherwise you need Threepio there to do what he is designed to do (translate) that's a lot of lines in Huttese to sit through without hearing any human speak and does give Threepio less to do.

Not unless you recolour Threepio, give him a different voice (a bit like this guy/girl :

and have the Hutt destroy this protocol droid leaving an opening on the employment register for Threepio to nervously fill.

I actually prefer the whole ghost scene in Ben's house (R2 is in the hut anyway to record the message and to take delivery of Luke's new toy. Threepio is outside because like Bail Antilles a generation before Luke can't trust him not to blurt out a secret) but as I described earlier it's very difficult to do convincingly.

I can't really see as yet the pacing problem other than not a shot has been fired until Boushh enters the palace but that goes with the film in it's current form and starting with Vader is no different from starting with Yoda in terms of mood both are downer openings, one with a new big weapon thingy and another with Luke becoming the only Jedi left alive.

Empire wasn't hurt by having Vader turn up well into the movie so I can't see Jedi being hurt by it either.

Octorox said:

Bingowings said:

mrbenja0618 said:

Have a question.... Would everyone prefer me to do the Animated (A.K.A. storybook edition) to all six movies and not the Redemption trilogy I'm working on?

 Going by the few images I can see I personally prefer yours (taste being subjective other people may prefer this version) but there is room for more than one take on the same great idea.

 

Well I was going for more of a "hand drawn" look while his looks more painted.

Indeed and it looks very good.

It reminds me of some of the work of Jorge Zaffino, I was just expressing a personal preference for a more painterly style.

As I said both approaches have merit.

TLSO said:

RE: the Sail Barge scenes - is the sand supposed to look that orange? Just seems weird to me. In the other movies I remember it a lot lighter.

I'm sure there are many different colours of sand on a desert world.

doubleofive said:

Bingowings said:

TLSO said:

Haha I actually figured that would happen to me. :P Only I was on Ubuntu, and I was too lazy to boot Windows so I could tool around in PhotoShop.

I'm pretty close to doubling up onto Ubuntu myself after seeing the better half having such a great time with it.

There is a lot of great free software on that system.

Photoshop is the only thing keeping me on Windows at home.  I don't play my PC games anymore.

I'm a Mac user and the one of the few things keeping me on OS X is Adobe produce, I've never played games on my machine (there aren't many anyway) but there are Adobesque programs on Ubuntu going for free.

Cinelerra looks particularly useful.

TLSO said:

Haha I actually figured that would happen to me. :P Only I was on Ubuntu, and I was too lazy to boot Windows so I could tool around in PhotoShop.

I'm pretty close to doubling up onto Ubuntu myself after seeing the better half having such a great time with it.

There is a lot of great free software on that system.

mrbenja0618 said:

Have a question.... Would everyone prefer me to do the Animated (A.K.A. storybook edition) to all six movies and not the Redemption trilogy I'm working on?

 Going by the few images I can see I personally prefer yours (taste being subjective other people may prefer this version) but there is room for more than one take on the same great idea.

Ripplin said:

I likes! :D

I would like to ask, though, since I may have missed it; what is the thinking/rationale behind Luke talking to Obi-Wan in his Tatooine home rather than on Dagobah?

The idea came from people wishing to have the film start on Dagobah, with Yoda's death (to create the impression that Luke has been finishing his training).

Then comes the Darth at the Death Star scene.

Then Luke returns to Tatooine sending the droids to Jabba. I thought it would be a nice bookend to Luke getting his father's lightsabre and getting the first half of the story about his dad in Ben's hut if he built his new lightsabre and got the full story about his dad in the same place.

He is about to save Han but has doubts because of losing Yoda and finding out about his father.

So Ben returns to his home to give Luke a bit of a lift before the battle to come, besides I was never happy with Ben wandering around in the swamp like that it just seemed a bit weird (more like he's retired and planting cabbages than actually being a ghost).

It's a good excuse for why all of Ben's stuff is still around (the Sandpeople and the Jawas won't go near the place because it's literally a haunted house).

Then comes the droids on route to the palace.

Chewie is delivered by Boushh etc and Luke rescues them.

Having Leia's relationship to Luke revealed on Tatooine gives him and us a bit of a break between revelations (hopefully making them easier to swallow) and keeps up the suspence about who the other is for a bit longer too.

Not perfect but a little storyboard of how Obi-Wan can now haunt his hut:

"Mr Marquand can we take that again? We appear to have an obviously fake arm in shot!" 

That shot really need fixing, it looks like Vader's hand is a glove stuffed with newspaper and is sticking directly out of his shoulder on a wooden stick.

Yeah, I might redo that Obi-Wan/Luke mock up again it was weird how much the lighting matched up and if I spent a good couple of hours on it I might be able to do a more convincing background but Ben was taken from the studio photo and I'm not sure how to do the glow right.

I know, Why don't you give it a stab Vaderios ;-)

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Bingowings said:

ben_danger said:

Bingowings said:

It would be great to see old Ben back on Tatooine where the story began (from a certain point of view) one more time.

Shame it couldn't be back at Ben's old hermitage.

 

surely that could work? if someone were to move him to tatooine, like somethingstarwarsrelated did, they could make a matt of bens homestead based on the one we see in ANH? the x wing could even land there?

 

The difficulty is moving the actor's around the set in a realistic fashion.

Ben might be doable (he is a ghost so the audiance expects a small degree of missmatch, but to do look right you'd have to get a real actor in a real set and mix in Mark's performance in a convincing way.

More hybrid fan film/fan edit action, not impossible but really hard work to pull off.

This is a really rough knock up but it can be done is the background is in sync with the foreground image which is hard enough to do with one frame but even harder in a long sequence.

 

That's why I've suggested outside...at night...it would be much easier to make it look convincing. The lighting would basically be the same. If Adywan could change out the Tatooine skies in ANH:R and make it look seemless...well, I bet he could pull off the Tatooine night skies...

It might be easier but then you lose some of (if not most of) the point moving the location.

The strength of the idea comes from being in the same room where the journey really began. He was given his father's sabre in that room he took on his father's quest in that room, now he is building his own sword and starting his own quest in the same room and in that room he gets the final part of the story Ben started to tell him all those years ago.

Outside looking up at the suns would have only some of that power.

Once again however don't underestimate the power of the fan film maker.

The plans of the simple set and lots of photographic resources are on record and it could be remade and refilmed to match the Dagobah sequence by a skilled camera man and Lukes glove could be replaced with a different hand but it's a LOT of work.

Ziz said:

Actually, I think that matte was painted for the deleted Sandstorm scene.

And the bit about Luke building his saber with spare parts in Ben's attic explains why his ROTJ saber looks so much like Ben's ANH saber.

I may be wrong but I can't see how that matte would work in that context.

The skiff takes them to their ships (in a sandstorm) and they get in them and leave so why the daylight and the hole for live action filming to be plopped in?

It fits in with the cave story much better but who cares as either option is beyond restoration without very good look and sound alike actors or time travel, and I'm just a nerd and not very knowledgable about such things, well not on this planet, in fact I'm not very sure which planet I'm on...

guitarfan01 said:

I suppose you could go through it frame by frame in photoshop, selecting certain elements and separating them out into layers, then desaturating only the layers you want to.

But that would be quite a job to do.  Only take about twenty years.

Of course, maybe that would only be necessary for certain shots.

Or a group of about twenty people could do it in one year (or you could do batch alterations and one person could do it as quickly as their computer speed and storage would allow).

darthmunky said:

Bingowings said:

It would be great to see old Ben back on Tatooine where the story began (from a certain point of view) one more time.

Shame it couldn't be back at Ben's old hermitage.

 

Well story-wise, that is where Luke is supposed to have went to build his new lightsaber. Obi Wan had all the parts necessary to build a lightsaber back at his house. I'm not sure if it was in the original script or not but there was a good little paragraph about this in my Star Wars visual dictionary.

 

There was meant to be a scene at the beginning of the film where we saw Luke finish building his new sabre in a cave on Tatooine.

This matte was painted for that scene.

 Here is the prop lightsabre which slides and snaps together :

 But it makes cleaner narrative sense to have that scene at Ben's hut, like in the novelisation (for the reasons you state and because it's where Luke started to learn about his father and begin his journey).

The same goes with the ghost scene.

ben_danger said:

Bingowings said:

It would be great to see old Ben back on Tatooine where the story began (from a certain point of view) one more time.

Shame it couldn't be back at Ben's old hermitage.

 

surely that could work? if someone were to move him to tatooine, like somethingstarwarsrelated did, they could make a matt of bens homestead based on the one we see in ANH? the x wing could even land there?

 

The difficulty is moving the actor's around the set in a realistic fashion.

Ben might be doable (he is a ghost so the audiance expects a small degree of missmatch, but to do look right you'd have to get a real actor in a real set and mix in Mark's performance in a convincing way.

More hybrid fan film/fan edit action, not impossible but really hard work to pull off.

This is a really rough knock up but it can be done is the background is in sync with the foreground image which is hard enough to do with one frame but even harder in a long sequence.

vaderios said:

Bingowings said:

...Jedi is as bad in it's way as any of the prequels.

God damn its worst.

 

-Angel

 

I still think that the original cast and Ian's Emperor lift it above the worst bits of the prequel trilogy, it still has spirit, something which hardly appears in the prequels.

DarthBo said:

Bingowings said:

Here's a link to novel artwork (which looked much better in my opinion) I shan't put it up as it's huge.

http://the-trukstop.com/articles/2008/images/star_wars_wallpaper_3/sote.jpg 

That got me a pair of boobies 0_0

Removing the space at the end of your link did the trick though ^_^

In space no one can hear your boobs, I think I've fixed it now.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

ChainsawAsh said:

(The Fan-O-Matic thread is even more radical, changing Ben's scene to take place on Tatooine, though I think that's technically infeasible given the footage available)

 

 I'm actually not sure about that yet... ;)

It's Obi-wan's transparency issue isn't it? Well, I've looked at that scene pretty closely and believe it or not Obi-wan is only transparent in a handful of shots. I *think* it could actually be worked around.

It might even be possible to have Obi-wan simply standing through the entire conversation. You could have Obi-wan kind of fade/flicker in and out using a still image of his body while using his talking head. Does that make sense? I've have to try and make a rough version of this...

Now of course even if all of that worked out it still may not look right...having to do so much roto-ing and all of that...

It would be great to see old Ben back on Tatooine where the story began (from a certain point of view) one more time.

Shame it couldn't be back at Ben's old hermitage.

Octorox said:

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Octorox said:

Yeah. I still feel that the scope of some of these edits is beyond an OT revisited projects. The revisited projects have generally been about fixing and adding, not moving around and taking away. I guess if Ady did a Purist DVD9 for this edit I wouldn't mind the radical changes however I couldn't consider it the "definitive edition of ROTJ" like I do with ANH because if you change too much it ceases to become ROTJ anymore. small tweaks along the way like the ADM prequel edits I wouldn't mind but I wouldn't want to see the movie completely gutted and rearranged. I'd prefer another editor tackle that or even Ady on a separate project.

Well, just be aware that Adywan will be changing *some* things...for example: the ending will be different...he's said before that he's going to *attempt* to kill Lando in the falcon. And of course, he's also said that the PT will be getting a complete make over...

I know my version is pretty out there...*I* don't want all of the changes I've done in Adywan's edit.  :)

 

....Kill Lando? maybe as an extra but come on... there better be a Purist version of this :( As for the PT I don't care because they don't need the FX work. Adywan's PT edits can be pure fan edits IMO but I've always seen the Revisited OT as "Special Editions" more than true fanedits.

It's how he see's it that counts.

He has already done cleaned up versions of the films as they stand so the Revisited set are his take and he went on record as saying that Jedi is as bad in it's way as any of the prequels.

When he is finished someone will no doubt take the them and mix and merge them to make even more versions, that's the nature of the fan-editing beast.

"I find your lack of eyelids and dental work disturbing."

Ripplin said:

Nice work yet again. I especially like the last frame. The deflection flash looks much better. The original looks like...something I can't quite think of. Part of some comapny's film logo. Paramount? I dunno. Sorta lens flarish.

It's rather like the torch of Columbia

doubleofive said:

Bingowings said:

Here's my first stab at beefing up the crawl :

I love this new crawl.  Can you type it out for us in whole?

 

"STAR WARS 

Episode VI 

THE RETURN OF THE JEDI 

The Alliance is doomed.

Hunted by the Imperial Star Fleet and suffering terrible losses the Rebels have retreated to the rim world of SULLUST hoping to strike back against the tyrannical EMPIRE.

Sensing ultimate victory LORD VADER and his cruel EMPEROR have begun construction of a new battlestation even more powerful than the first dreaded DEATH STAR.

Luke Skywalker has returned to his homeworld of TATOOINE to rescue his friend Han Solo from the vile gangster JABBA THE HUTT unaware of the sinister plots laid against him...."

Octorox said:

Bingowings said:

Octorox said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Octorox said:

I don't know about showing Luke on Dagobah before we see his entrance on Tatooine. The way the new and improved Jedi Luke is presented is pretty effective.

The idea for that edit is to make it seem like Luke spent more than a week becoming a Jedi.  This way, he has spent an indeterminate amount of time on Dagobah - we assume after ESB he returned there to finish training, then he finishes, Yoda dies, and he leaves.

(The Fan-O-Matic thread is even more radical, changing Ben's scene to take place on Tatooine, though I think that's technically infeasible given the footage available)

And honestly, even if I didn't do all that, I would rewrite the crawl anyway.  The only reason is that it's boring.  Look at ANH:  "It is a period of civil war."  ESB:  "It is a dark time for the Rebellion."  ROTJ:  "Luke Skywalker has returned to his home planet of Tatooine in an attempt to rescue his friend Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt."  Wow.  Talk about boring, and a mouthful to boot.

 

But doesn't Luke say at the end of ESB that he is going to Jabbas palace pretty much right away?

He says that they will meet at the rendezvous point on Tatooine as soon as Lando has tracked down Han.

Presumably there was some planning involved and Lando getting into the Palace without Boba Fett kicking up a stink would take some negotiation (I don't think for a minute that mask would fool him).

 

yeah, I guess it would work then. But, how does Luke know when the leave Dagobah. He justs seems to leave when Yoda dies. Isn't that rather convenient timing?

 

Yoda hangs on to life long enough to complete his training (but to be a Jedi Luke has to face some home truths).

Ben's spirit now tells him Leia is his sister and like Luke has the potential to be both a Jedi and a Sith (and going by the way she stands over Lando while Chewie chokes the life out of him a tactic she later uses on Jabba, she has enough of her Father in her to be just as much of a danger in the wrong hands as Vader was).

The rescue is already on the way but now he has an added Jedi reason to protect Leia (to stop her from being discovered by Palpatine and turned into his new apprentice).

When he rushed to save Han, Leia etc in ESB it was out of pure emotional attachment, when he saves the gang in ROTJ it's now part of a bigger picture.

Octorox said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Octorox said:

I don't know about showing Luke on Dagobah before we see his entrance on Tatooine. The way the new and improved Jedi Luke is presented is pretty effective.

The idea for that edit is to make it seem like Luke spent more than a week becoming a Jedi.  This way, he has spent an indeterminate amount of time on Dagobah - we assume after ESB he returned there to finish training, then he finishes, Yoda dies, and he leaves.

(The Fan-O-Matic thread is even more radical, changing Ben's scene to take place on Tatooine, though I think that's technically infeasible given the footage available)

And honestly, even if I didn't do all that, I would rewrite the crawl anyway.  The only reason is that it's boring.  Look at ANH:  "It is a period of civil war."  ESB:  "It is a dark time for the Rebellion."  ROTJ:  "Luke Skywalker has returned to his home planet of Tatooine in an attempt to rescue his friend Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt."  Wow.  Talk about boring, and a mouthful to boot.

 

But doesn't Luke say at the end of ESB that he is going to Jabbas palace pretty much right away?

He says that they will meet at the rendezvous point on Tatooine as soon as Lando has tracked down Han.

Presumably there was some planning involved and Lando getting into the Palace without Boba Fett kicking up a stink would take some negotiation (I don't think for a minute that mask would fool him).

Here's a link to novel artwork (which looked much better in my opinion) I shan't put it up as it's huge.

http://the-trukstop.com/articles/2008/images/star_wars_wallpaper_3/sote.jpg