Bingowings

doubleofive said:

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Bingowings said:

If it could be done I'd try dubbing Yoda's repeat of his first lesson to Luke while he is dying so instead of saying "Once you start down the Dark path etc..." He says the lines from ROTS "Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not" (it may be impossible to modulate and break up the line to get that near death performance but I'll give it a go).

Yoda is sensing that Luke's doubts are growing now that he is losing his teacher, Ben later reminds him not to underestimate Vader and the Emperor.

Luke got the dark path lesson in ESB he hasn't received that nugget of wisdom from Yoda yet and it would be a sensible parallel with Anakin's fear of losing his wife and Luke's fear of losing his sister being the pivots on which their anger and potential to do evil balance.

 

 Woah...this could be a good idea...hmmm

Its a shame a bunch of fans sitting in a forum had to come up with that connection.

To be fair George (if he did write it and not Tom Stoppard) only came up with the line a few years back so he couldn't have made the connection if he wanted to.

AxiaEuxine said:

I say leave all the blades as the are

It's a prequel issue really as there are only red and green in ROTJ and Red and Blue in ESB (and hardly anyone is talking about that film on this thread anymore).

ben_danger said:

AxiaEuxine said:

OK I was kind of skimming through this thread and dont really want to read 1,000,000 posts. Whats with this lightsaber blade color thing? Why change all the prequel blades? Thats a horrible idea.

 

the idea is PT jedi and basically any old republic era jedi have blue, and luke makes a green sabre for ROTJ symbolising the birth of the new jedi order.

 

PT jedi could have alternative blues, deep CLONE WARS blues, turqoises, light blues like ANH, cyans etc.

It could be argued that green is a colour associated with spring and rejuvenation so it would make sense on a symbolic level to have the old sabres blue during the winter and death of the old order and green in the spring and rebirth the new Jedi order.

Sith have blood red.

Should the new order thrive and reach greater heights than the old they could become yellow heralding in a golden age (and everyone should get worried again when they turn brown/orange).

ben_danger said:

what if ghost yoda was in bens hut too? wouldnt make much sence, but if the dialogue from the beginning was cut/changed. additional dialogue could be used later if he appears as a ghost. alternatively he could just appear silently.

I think Luke would just associate that place with Ben and seeing Yoda's ghost so early would detract from his appearence at the end with his saved father.

In a way taking Ben away from Dagobah helps affirm Yoda's link to his home too.

In ESB we heard Ben's voice and saw him for a few seconds but really Dagobah is Yoda's domain so having Ben wandering around it seems a bit weird (on Hoth Ben could just float for a few seconds).

If it could be done I'd try dubbing Yoda's repeat of his first lesson to Luke while he is dying so instead of saying "Once you start down the Dark path etc..." He says the lines from ROTS "Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not" (it may be impossible to modulate and break up the line to get that near death performance but I'll give it a go).

Yoda is sensing that Luke's doubts are growing now that he is losing his teacher, Ben later reminds him not to underestimate Vader and the Emperor.

Luke got the dark path lesson in ESB he hasn't received that nugget of wisdom from Yoda yet and it would be a sensible parallel with Anakin's fear of losing his wife and Luke's fear of losing his sister being the pivots on which their anger and potential to do evil balance.

vaderios said:

Who wants flying heads?

I want FATALITIES

-Angel ;)

The top left original does seem to be the Bohemian Rhapsody video of lightsabre blades, it's all over the place, good work commander!

ben_danger said:

it would be awesome if that were the only green sabre in the whole saga.

 

i noticed the chestplate!

 And the belt buckle too great work ain't? I did notice ergo the cock-up statement.

The colour thing is even more daft in my opinion.

 VADER'S THOUGHT BUBBLE : "Mmm a green blade...nobody thought of that one before...he must be stronger than all those other Jedi I killed. This is going to be a tough cookie to crack, I'll just get him in a corner and tell him that Princess he's been snogging is his sister, that'll do it! I mean, it's not likely to be true but he seems the kind of kid that'll fall for that sort of thing...still green blade. Green, why did it have to be Green?"

vaderios said:

One more...

-Angel

Jedi seems to be riddled with cock-ups like this.

It's certainly the contractual obligation album of the OT.

I'd remove the "indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen." bit from that scene.

I know the EU has made a big thing of Lightsabre construction but it does reduce Jedi Knighthood to the level of home improvement.

The skills bit can stay as building a laser sword from scratch takes skill but the end of the line sounds silly.

I've been listening to the ROTJ radio version to see if there is anything that can be pinched from there.

The acting is rather variable, sadly not a patch on the other two but there is one added plotline that could add a bit of impact to the movie.

Vader is fully aware that Luke and/or his friends would attempt to rescue Han so they have Imperial ships observing Tatooine for any sign of a rescue.

To give cover for the Falcon and Luke's escape Artoo patched into Jabba's computer network to send a warning to his employees that the Empire are clamping down and have death warrants causing a mass exodus of Bounty Hunters and the like (the bounty hunters escaping would be difficult to achieve without new live action footage but an Imperial blockade makes immediate plot sense and wouldn't need much in the way of exposition).

It would give Luke's return to Tatooine a bit of a punch if he had to shoot his way in and out, as I said earlier it seems a shame that we don't see Luke the pilot in the final episode, just Luke the knight.

It would underline how desperate Vader is to get at Luke before Palpatine does.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Bingowings said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that two random droids coming to a gangster's palace with a message from someone who's a friend of a current prisoner would be commandeered and put to work.  I don't have a problem with the lack of the message - the point of the message was to A) communicate to the audience that Luke is now a Jedi, and b) remind the audience that Solo is imprisoned.  In our theoretical edit, both of these things have already been clearly communicated through Boussh's delivery of Chewie, where Jabba shows off Solo, and through Luke's conversation with dying Yoda.  In this edit, the message is redundant, but we still need the droids there for the sail barge part.

Not exactly because sending the droids of as a gift deliberately puts the droids into position take away the message and the audience doesn't know why Luke sent them there and their capture will seem more of an accident than part of a plot on Luke's part.

Besides the message show's that Luke gave diplomacy a chance and used violence as the last remaining option (short of leaving Han where he was and letting Leia get herself killed or worse still captured and trained by the Emperor).

 

I'm not trying to promote myself but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOnxPTb9sP0&feature=channel_page

This might address some of the things you've brought up...

Yes it's rough, it's meant to illustrate a concept not wow an audience so I'm fine with that.

It does demonstate that to get the scene to work Ben really needs to be indoors or at least near some rocks, his sitting down in thin air looks very wierd (I know he's a ghost so he doesn't need to sit down but sadly George/Sir Alec/Mark/Mr Marquand etc didn't think that through).

I will try to fiddle about with the film myself and put it onto Youtube and compare the various approaches suggested here (and mine will probably look as slick as yours, maybe not even as slick it will be almost my first attempt at this sort of thing).

TMBTM said:

 but I guess it is kind of ridicules that it took about 20 years to make the first one and like 3 years to make the 2nd bigger one

Mmm, maybe we could say that the first Death Star took three years to build also. It is just its "destroyer of world" ultimate weapon that is not fully operational yet at the begining of ANH. Maby the Death Star was a secret base for the Empire for a long time.

I am not a Lucas apologist here, I just try to (desperately) find a solution.

"Until this battle station is fully operation, we are vulnerable" and that was days before it's first firing on Alderaan.

The only way of keeping the Death Star being built in ROTS is to have the second one also being built roughly about the same time, Death Star One, is Fatman to Death Star Two's Little Boy ( I mean in terms of when they are built not in size as DS2 is meant to bigger which would also slow it's building down).

Resources may have been focused on getting the first one finished at a later stage, halting progress on the second one and using the first Death Star to iron out the bugs in the systems.

Diverging a bit onto a different issue, just adding eyelids to the Ewoks does make them more like real creatures :

ChainsawAsh said:

I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that two random droids coming to a gangster's palace with a message from someone who's a friend of a current prisoner would be commandeered and put to work.  I don't have a problem with the lack of the message - the point of the message was to A) communicate to the audience that Luke is now a Jedi, and b) remind the audience that Solo is imprisoned.  In our theoretical edit, both of these things have already been clearly communicated through Boussh's delivery of Chewie, where Jabba shows off Solo, and through Luke's conversation with dying Yoda.  In this edit, the message is redundant, but we still need the droids there for the sail barge part.

Not exactly because sending the droids of as a gift deliberately puts the droids into position take away the message and the audience doesn't know why Luke sent them there and their capture will seem more of an accident than part of a plot on Luke's part.

Besides the message show's that Luke gave diplomacy a chance and used violence as the last remaining option (short of leaving Han where he was and letting Leia get herself killed or worse still captured and trained by the Emperor).

That hits on another problem if the message is never delivered how do the droids get into position to play their part (not that Threepio does much) in the rescue?

Jawa's snatching droids is one thing but I can't believe Jabba or even his cronies would would do something like that.

Sticking the Emperor's arrival so early it does cram in even more exposition at the start and there already is a fair wack but the dialogue does seem to demand it (point taken about keeping the acts seperate but we got a lot of cutting back to Tarkin in ANH and that didn't hurt much).

My instincts say.

Yoda or Vader first (and it's really much of a muchness which) something that could be weighed up by doing a dummy edit.

Yoda or Vader second (depending on what happened first).

Then Luke on Tatooine (in whatever form is possible)

Then the Emperor arriving, then droids, then Boussh, then the rescue, the briefing,  (for those who want the Boba Fett plot part one goes before Leia revives Han but after Chewie gets dropped off, Part two takes place just before the briefing).

Having Yoda first though means that you don't get two Luke scenes right next to each other (you do get a evening followed by a morning with the droids but ANH had that sort of thing anyway).

TMBTM said:

Obi pictures, on Tatooine,  are nice but I think that to make the job easier and more realistic, that scene should be at night. With only few light inside Obi's hut, to fit better with the characters.

Once again a really nice idea on paper, firstly because when Luke started his journey it was in the bright glow of a youth looking to the future with some optimism and now he's a seasoned and slightly broken older man looking to the future with understandable dread, and we haven't seen Ben's hut in the dark so it would look familiar but different.

But if mixing one scene to the location of another is hard enough try doing it when the location was never recorded lit for night, it would make an already difficult job almost impossible.

Though I will give it a try, naturally ;-)

Not as bad as I thought and I'm getting better at the shimmer (even if it has shaved the top of Ben's hairpiece off) maybe you experts out there can do it better?

Ripplin said:

ChainsawAsh said:

The pacing problem with opening on Yoda's scene is the incredible amount of honestly boring exhibition you get with that scene, which is fine if you're already engaged in the story, but to start it off like that is asking a little much of the audience.

Good point. The movie wouldn't exactly start with a bang that way.

 

I agree but it doesn't start with a bang with Vader either, at least Empire starts has a hard thump near the beginning, whichever way it's cut Jedi lacks the kick that all the others have. So it's a choice of exposition scene, you could start with Chewie being dropped off (there's a bit of drama there, not enough really though) but that buggers up the Jabba introduction.

It's one of the reasons why I suggested some sort of dogfight at the beginning showing the Rebels are constantly being tracked, shot down and running, just to give the film a punchier beginning.

Lucas really screwed up on this one.

ChainsawAsh said:

Bingowings said:

Ripplin said:

I likes! :D

I would like to ask, though, since I may have missed it; what is the thinking/rationale behind Luke talking to Obi-Wan in his Tatooine home rather than on Dagobah?

The idea came from people wishing to have the film start on Dagobah, with Yoda's death (to create the impression that Luke has been finishing his training).

Then comes the Darth at the Death Star scene.

Then Luke returns to Tatooine sending the droids to Jabba. I thought it would be a nice bookend to Luke getting his father's lightsabre and getting the first half of the story about his dad in Ben's hut if he built his new lightsabre and got the full story about his dad in the same place.

He is about to save Han but has doubts because of losing Yoda and finding out about his father.

So Ben returns to his home to give Luke a bit of a lift before the battle to come, besides I was never happy with Ben wandering around in the swamp like that it just seemed a bit weird (more like he's retired and planting cabbages than actually being a ghost).

It's a good excuse for why all of Ben's stuff is still around (the Sandpeople and the Jawas won't go near the place because it's literally a haunted house).

Then comes the droids on route to the palace.

Chewie is delivered by Boushh etc and Luke rescues them.

Having Leia's relationship to Luke revealed on Tatooine give him and us a bit of a break between revelations (hopefully making them easier to swallow) and keeps up the suspence about who the other is for a bit longer too.

Sort of - this progression causes pacing issues, unfortunately.

What works better is:

- Start off with Vader visiting the Death Star
- Boushh delivers Chewie (paint out Threepio, since he's not there yet)
- Luke on Dagobah, Yoda dies
- Leia rescues Han, is captured (again, paint out Threepio)
- Han talks with Chewie
- Luke lands on Tatooine, after getting out of X-Wing says "I can't do it R2" then hears Obi-Wan from inside the hut, goes inside and has conversation with Obi-Wan (could also start inside hut)
- Droids go to Jabba's palace, get captured ("message" is never delivered)
- Luke arrives at the palace, Rancor, Sarlacc Pit
- Emperor arrives on Death Star
- Luke arrives at the meeting (greeting part goes first), then briefing commences, ending with a nervous pause after "General Solo, is your srike team assembled?"

The rest of the movie would pretty much play out without more drastic structuring changes, but obviously with toned-down kiddie B.S.

Presumably Boussh's lines are translated via subtitles?

Otherwise you need Threepio there to do what he is designed to do (translate) that's a lot of lines in Huttese to sit through without hearing any human speak and does give Threepio less to do.

Not unless you recolour Threepio, give him a different voice (a bit like this guy/girl :

and have the Hutt destroy this protocol droid leaving an opening on the employment register for Threepio to nervously fill.

I actually prefer the whole ghost scene in Ben's house (R2 is in the hut anyway to record the message and to take delivery of Luke's new toy. Threepio is outside because like Bail Antilles a generation before Luke can't trust him not to blurt out a secret) but as I described earlier it's very difficult to do convincingly.

I can't really see as yet the pacing problem other than not a shot has been fired until Boushh enters the palace but that goes with the film in it's current form and starting with Vader is no different from starting with Yoda in terms of mood both are downer openings, one with a new big weapon thingy and another with Luke becoming the only Jedi left alive.

Empire wasn't hurt by having Vader turn up well into the movie so I can't see Jedi being hurt by it either.

Octorox said:

Bingowings said:

mrbenja0618 said:

Have a question.... Would everyone prefer me to do the Animated (A.K.A. storybook edition) to all six movies and not the Redemption trilogy I'm working on?

 Going by the few images I can see I personally prefer yours (taste being subjective other people may prefer this version) but there is room for more than one take on the same great idea.

 

Well I was going for more of a "hand drawn" look while his looks more painted.

Indeed and it looks very good.

It reminds me of some of the work of Jorge Zaffino, I was just expressing a personal preference for a more painterly style.

As I said both approaches have merit.

TLSO said:

RE: the Sail Barge scenes - is the sand supposed to look that orange? Just seems weird to me. In the other movies I remember it a lot lighter.

I'm sure there are many different colours of sand on a desert world.

doubleofive said:

Bingowings said:

TLSO said:

Haha I actually figured that would happen to me. :P Only I was on Ubuntu, and I was too lazy to boot Windows so I could tool around in PhotoShop.

I'm pretty close to doubling up onto Ubuntu myself after seeing the better half having such a great time with it.

There is a lot of great free software on that system.

Photoshop is the only thing keeping me on Windows at home.  I don't play my PC games anymore.

I'm a Mac user and the one of the few things keeping me on OS X is Adobe produce, I've never played games on my machine (there aren't many anyway) but there are Adobesque programs on Ubuntu going for free.

Cinelerra looks particularly useful.

TLSO said:

Haha I actually figured that would happen to me. :P Only I was on Ubuntu, and I was too lazy to boot Windows so I could tool around in PhotoShop.

I'm pretty close to doubling up onto Ubuntu myself after seeing the better half having such a great time with it.

There is a lot of great free software on that system.

mrbenja0618 said:

Have a question.... Would everyone prefer me to do the Animated (A.K.A. storybook edition) to all six movies and not the Redemption trilogy I'm working on?

 Going by the few images I can see I personally prefer yours (taste being subjective other people may prefer this version) but there is room for more than one take on the same great idea.

Ripplin said:

I likes! :D

I would like to ask, though, since I may have missed it; what is the thinking/rationale behind Luke talking to Obi-Wan in his Tatooine home rather than on Dagobah?

The idea came from people wishing to have the film start on Dagobah, with Yoda's death (to create the impression that Luke has been finishing his training).

Then comes the Darth at the Death Star scene.

Then Luke returns to Tatooine sending the droids to Jabba. I thought it would be a nice bookend to Luke getting his father's lightsabre and getting the first half of the story about his dad in Ben's hut if he built his new lightsabre and got the full story about his dad in the same place.

He is about to save Han but has doubts because of losing Yoda and finding out about his father.

So Ben returns to his home to give Luke a bit of a lift before the battle to come, besides I was never happy with Ben wandering around in the swamp like that it just seemed a bit weird (more like he's retired and planting cabbages than actually being a ghost).

It's a good excuse for why all of Ben's stuff is still around (the Sandpeople and the Jawas won't go near the place because it's literally a haunted house).

Then comes the droids on route to the palace.

Chewie is delivered by Boushh etc and Luke rescues them.

Having Leia's relationship to Luke revealed on Tatooine gives him and us a bit of a break between revelations (hopefully making them easier to swallow) and keeps up the suspence about who the other is for a bit longer too.

Not perfect but a little storyboard of how Obi-Wan can now haunt his hut: