Bingowings

Kurgan said:

sketchrob said:

Y'know Kurgan just once I'd like to see you acutally attemt to create any of your "suggestions", I really would.

 

Says the one who has never released a fan edit...

 

Last I checked this thread was about making suggestions, whether or not we had any plans to do it ourselves... not gushing over what fan editors had already decided to do on their own, so please take your snarky attitude and shove it out the nearest airlock (and try the spell-checker next time). ;)

A good point there, this thread is about making suggestions and you are free to make whatever suggestions you like.

It's not necessary to be a fan editor to make suggestions either, this thread is about giving people ideas.

Some of the people who contribute to it might want to run off and work on those ideas themselves, others may just want to throw ideas out for others to ponder and perhaps pick up and develop.

I would prefer a snark free atmosphere in here  too, snarking is not grown up and it's not clever.

Snarks will be hunted down and exterminated!

Vaderios, there are whole websites devoted to that sort of thing.

I think that unless someone comes up with something specifically ESB:R related that needs to be said it might be an idea to just rest this thread for a while.

I'm sure Adywan will re-awaken it when he has a major announcement to make but unless our imaginations scream otherwise I sense our work is finished here my friends.

Young Adywan has more than enough to go on at the moment and we may be of more help to him making suggestions for his future projects.

DarkFather said:

I just want to be able to take the Emperor seriously. He is the prime villain after all.

Just look at Richard III (the play not the man who was by all accounts rather nice), he is both hilariously funny and bone chillingly villainous all at the same time.

Caligula in I CLAVDIVS too.

That's where Palpatine is coming from.

If you want to do an edit with a near silent slow speaking Palpatine go ahead though.

At the very least it would be interesting to see as a curio.

ben_danger said:

could a full alternative Battle of Endor storyboard be developed? perhaps just scene for scene, to show how the old footage and heavily editted material fits in?

I tried a few photoshop doodles a few pages back.

Yeah it can be done but we'd have to figure out what we do like and what we don't in the existing material and any new ideas we'd like to put in (like my AT-AT in the forest notion).

Like all the effects in ROTJ there is a great amount of inconsistancy when it comes to quality.

DarkFather said:

I suggest editing out a chunk of the Emperor's dialogue. As presented in ROTJ, he's a very stock villain. When you imagine him sitting there, most the time silent, you can feel the tension building up. So when he does speak, his words could that much more weight. I also suggest having him speak more slowly and collectively, as the character did in Empire Strikes Back.

Silence among contrasting characters, when done correctly, is a superb way of creating a foreboding tension. The way it is in ROTJ now, is very scripted and watered down.

Consider this.

I actually like the idea of Palpatine being a smarmy git, the way Ian delivers lines like "Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will still be operational when your friends arrive" cracks me up everytime.

In a way Palpatine is Yoda's distorted reflection.

Yoda delivers wacked out humour but still manages to sound mystically good, Palps delivers wacked out humour but still manages to sound mystically evil, both hide their great power behind the mask of ancient frail looking bodies.

If the Clive Revill Palpatine had survived through to ROTJ I feel we would have missed out on one of the better performances in the whole saga (he certainly makes the prequels more watchable), though I liked the spooky look of the original Emperor more.

OzoneSherrif said:

One of the worst aspects of the Endor forest battle is the way the Stormtroopers stumble around staring at the ground being absolutely unaware of their surroundings and constantly letting Han flip them over. that didn't even make sense

Once again some of that can be edited around or tinkered with digitally.

Pointing lazy trooper heads up is a (time consuming) doddle and who knows, maybe the 501st can be called in to do some more dignified trooperage as plate elements?

More rebels and Ewoks need to die in this battle too, for their victory to be believable the good guys have to take losses.

But the actual story element of the ground battle is essential to the tale in my opinion, it just has to be made less rubbish like all the other componants of this rather half arsed film.

ben_danger said:

maybe the more space battle we have the less ewok we would need. do you think that with the DSIII twist, the Imperial ambush on ednor wouldnt be necessary? so han actually blows the place up first time?

I think you still need it but with better Ewoks and less slapstick.

The ground battle/space battle/sabre duel trio needs to remain but it has to be improved so every element shines.

The action highlight of ANH was the space battle, the action highlights of ESB were a ground battle and a sabre duel this film ends with all three in a way we haven't seen before and that's necessary not only as the end of this trilogy but (unless George changes his mind) the end of the whole saga.

Ewoks which act like real believable primitive but brave creatures are fine, silly teddy bears with pebble eyes hitting themselves in the face are prototype Jar-Jars.

vaderios said:

I want new Death star room! More impressive and iconic!

-Angel

Get to work big fella!

I was trying to get the basic idea of the old one (as it's existing footage which can be manipulated) but tie it in with the colour scheme of the throne room (with the UV lit controls and the red and blue readouts).

But if you can do better please, please do because I love seeing your work.

I will also be trying my hand at making the Rebel briefing room look less like a plywood collection of left overs from the other movies.

I'd like to see your efforts in that area too.

While we are waiting your latest masterpiece here is a merge of both of our work (a bit rough around the edges) :

Here Jerjerrod realises what Piett's plan :

ben_danger said:

if this all happens, would it be appropriate to have imps celebrating on endor at the end too?

 

also, would the shield generator protect one or two death stars?

I would imagine that the shield would only protect the parked Death Star.

The other one has maneuverability on it's side (if it had the same amount of shield protection as the other one the Executor wouldn't even get close to it).

Getting two Death Stars built so quickly came at a price, one can't move at all but has sheild protection, one has only basic protection but can get out of the way.

The Rebels expect the Emperor to be on the protected one, being so confident at his stratagem working Palpatine puts himself on the get away quickish version hoping surprise would be a greater defence than any shield.

As for the Imperials celebrating it's been a long war and I imagine it will be a long time making the peace.

I don't think Piett would be the only officer to defect (and then out of no love for the Rebellion just utter miff with the boss men who go around choking and blowing up their best men).

So having them dancing with Ewoks would not be appropriate just yet.

Just look at the Stormtrooper killing spree they have on Coruscant when they get the good news.

vaderios said:

I like the idea

I don't like the gro plan of piett's eyes. Too non Star Wars

Still i prefer the death star to be closer.

i hope someone to pack all the mockups in one some day.

At last we see some color in this movie :)

-Angel

Marquand/Lucas use the same technique on Vader while Luke is getting the old sparky treatment from Palps so I shouldn't see it being a problem here.

"Closer?" "Grrrrrrggghhhhh?"

As for the other Death Star not being too close, remember the one still parked at Endor is quite out of the way of the battle too and  it could get closer as the battle draws in but remember this one has Palpatine on board so it may be trying to steer not too close to the dangerzone.

It doesn't have to be that close really, it has the superlaser and the fleet are the cannon fodder (which is why Piett isn't too pleased).

Besides if it were that close it would be able to target the Rebel ships with greater accuracy it's the fact that both fleets are so tightly knitted which is causing the friendly fire.

Here's a storyboard of Piett's epiphany :

Lovely work Vaderios as always, you really capture the drama of the scene there.

I love the angry eye of the Death Star peeking over the edge of the moon (I almost expect it to call out "Dinsdale!")

Ripplin said:

These new ideas are really cool. Do you think it could be done only with existing footage and audio of the actors? Maybe some lines would have to be delivered where you can't see their mouths, like from behind or off-screen.

Some it can be done with just clever editing if you see the screen mock-up above of Luke's reaction it's context has changed, he doesn't need to say anything because just seeing that familiar broken globe rotate into view tells the audience all it needs to know, he isn't on that Death Star (so where is he?) .

Palpatine says "now witness the fire power of this full armed and operational battlestation" (I'm warming to the idea of it being complete but I'm not sure how the Executor could knock out even a smaller version on her own).

With Piett it's more complicated, it might be possible to mock up his utter dismay of seeing his own ships being shot at by the Death Star from that final shot of him in ESB.

Throughout ROTJ the bridge set is cut short by having the blast door down cutting off the view to the connecting corridor.

It may be possible to take footage from ESB of the door up and sample someone from somewhere saying "Secure the bridge!" and have the blast door slam down.

Then add another of him speaking in hushed tones to another officer.

Over the speaker system a voice could declare that 'Rebels have taken control of the Emperor's battlestation we are preparing to attack the rebels!" (microphone distortion can cover the unknown actor's identity, to buy Piett some time before those loyal to the Emperor try and stop him) and have the Admiral's aide say something along the line of "You are playing a dangerous game Admiral" (isn't he always).

He puts the ship into attack mode and we can hear troopers on the other side of the door trying to cut through to regain control of the bridge (open the blast doors!).

And all this can be done in a few minutes to convey the general idea.

Lines like "Intensify the forward batteries" can still be used and "I don't want anything to get through!" can now refer to the blast doors.

So it's a mixture of mostly existing material (augmented by shifting it around to mean something else) built upon with a few additions.

The countdown to trying to destroy Endor could be accomplished by sampling the similar scene in ANH but replacing Tarkin with a figure in an Imperial Navy uniform adding a voice declaring that "The Commander orders the moon to be targetted, there will be no escape for the Rebels" (or some such Nazi nonsense).

You get the general idea.

My first few mock ups :

 Adywan has already given this some thought, he proposed using the shell from ROTS as the third Death Star :

adywan said:How about using the skeleton Death Star from ROTS. That would be easy to add to any needed shots and , as Darth Richard said, it would be destroyed with in the explosion as a ripple effect. Because its only in its basic construction, as sluggo said, it wouldn't need any plot changes as the rebels would still concentrate on destroying the almost completed version which is the main threat..
One thing that has always bugged me about ROTJ is that the imperial fleet was never completely destroyed, so did they just give up when the Death Star was destroyed? I'm going to be adding the remnants of the fleet being caught up in the energy wave and you'll see them being destroyed. I think it will give the destruction of the Empire more impact and will take this sequence away from the "ANH rehashed" feeling I've always had about ROTJ's ending. Another thing i always wanted to see that was in the script, and will be in my version, was when the rebels realise the shield is still up and some ships couldn't turn in time impacting into the shield.It could be fully complete or it could look like this painting of the first Death Star in a similar state of near completion to the second (which would give the Executor a nice bit of exposed under belly to ram into) :

But it could be fully complete or it could look like this painting of the first Death Star in a similar state of near completion to the second (which would give the Executor a nice bit of exposed under belly to ram into) :

In the original treatment for Revenge Of The Jedi there were TWO Death Stars being built as seen in this production painting :

It might also be a fun addition to an alternative version to have Jejerrod being presurred into completing one Death Star (the one the Rebels know about) but the Emperor overseeing the construction of a different Death Star.

The audience is lead to expect that they are the same Death Star until Luke notices when looking out of the window as the station moves that the battlestation he is now on is not the one that the battle is taking place near.

Moving the line "you have paid the price for your lack of vision" so it takes place before "the Alliance will die"  would add a heck of a punch to Luke's near flip to the dark side.

It would also add weight to the Emperor's line "We are quite safe from your friends here".

This one is mobile and is moved into the battle once the Rebels are pinned in between the other Death Star and the fleet.

The Emperor orders Jejerrod to fire from his Death Star while the other moves in and fires into the battle from the other side.

"There are too many of them!" can now be replaced with a line from TPM "Now there are two of them!" .

Because Lando has moved the Rebel fleet close to the Imperial one almost as many Imperial ships are being destroyed by the Death Stars as Rebel ships because the gunners can't pick a target.

Piett finally has had enough of Sith Lords and orders an attack on the second Death Star and rams into the uncomplete section (after the Emperor has been killed) so now the Executor goes down for a very good reason (saving the Admiral's fleet) and peace between the Imperials and the Rebels is more believable because during the battle they both end up fighting on for their lives against a common enemy.

Jejerrod seeing the end is up tries to turn his Death Star onto the forest moon, wiping out both the Rebels and the mutineers but the Rebels destroy the reactor before this can be accomplished.

These changes are a bit out there but they would make the film much more different than just a rehash of ANH and a bit closer to what Jedi originally was going to be.

vaderios said:

No way!

Vadman! :)

 

-Angel

WheresBlackhawk said:

Sigh...it appears everyone's interest has waned.

I think the problem here is people seem to be running before they have even evolved lungs.

There are already some great ideas on here but it's sort of descended into concerned posts from people who don't like specific ideas or want to animate it in a specific way, when there isn't even enough put down to make one solid story (let alone three) and picking the animation style is something you do when you pretty much have a finished script (not before).

If people are serious about doing this sort of thing those that are should go read this thread from top to toe, pick the ideas they like, write a story treatment, see if any of the responses to it are useful and then press onto a full script.

Then cast the audio recording and resource sound effects etc and then set a house style that volunteers can work to so if people drop out of the project other people can pick it up without changing the look and the thing can get finished.

This thread should be stage one (pulling for ideas).

Stage two should be picking the story treatment (there could be more than one project).

Stage three polishing various scripts and tightening every bolt and pre-production.

Stage four production and post production work.

If you have a plan you have a chance of pulling it off.

If you just meander around nothing will be done.

With Adywan's projects their are about four threads losely or closely associated with them (some cross over to other projects too but on the whole they are energised by the Revisited versions).

ESB:R is still some time away and there is a lot of people working on providing ideas that Ady might use on not only ROTJ:R and the prequels and they are years away.

Those projects are based on films that have already been made once, the acting has been done, it been designed and filmed and still those projects are pulling out ideas only some of which will actually be realised by anyone not just Adywan.

Here there is one thread devoted to a project where nothing exists yet (which can be liberating but can also be very devisive).

If this thread begins to dry up put it on the back burner for a bit and just write the thing and come back with something concrete that people can add to and illustrate with pictures and the like.

But if you chaps are serious about getting this done don't give up.

"Do or do not, there is no try"

Lightsabre colour is not an issue for these films as Luke has either a blue or green sabre and Vader has a red one (or a pink one on the DVD versions) it's only an issue for discussion in relation to the prequels and there it's up to whatever the editors want to do with their edits (there are a lot of different projects and some people may want to change them and others may want to keep them the same).

AxiaEuxine said:

The idea of a secret love between Padme and Obi-wan has got to be one of the WORST ideas floated on these boards in a long time. The fact that they didnt do it, an obvious plot development is just another thing that the prequels did right.

 

That trailer was well edited but NO!

Oh I agree that a real secret love would be naff beyond words but manipulating Anakin into believing that there was one when there wasn't has potential. The idea has been around the block a few times but so has almost every element in the Star Wars story.

It could push Anakin's already paranoid mind further off the edge.

Octorox said:

Bingowings said:

Octorox said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3roDTVzfgrA

 

wow

 

I'd really like to know where they got that shot of Obi and Padme. I'd love to use it in an altered Anakin dream sequence

I suspected that this sort of thing would turn up in the prequels it was a bit of a surprise that it had not (not necessarily an actual romance between Padme and Obi-Wan but more Anakin becoming so paranoid about losing her that he would leap to that conclusion).

 

well perhaps we could put it in Anakin's dream and return the scene where Palp plants seeds of mistrust in Padme. Then Palp would be even more like an Iago character.

 

It's such a shame that Luke and Leia weren't both blondes, then we could have put in a bit of cross-dressing and got the full Shakespearean set (then Boussh was supposed to be a male wasn't he/she?).

It would also be nice if we got to see the Battle of Coruscant rage on the surface as well as in space like here (not my work by the way) :

Octorox said:

Bingowings said:

gavin77 said:

Still no Adywan......hope that brother is ok.......

He is prolly busy having a life and working on this Star Wars thing he's been dabbling with in his spare time, I hope he is ok too but then I hope we all are all the time.

 

 

It's interesting because his profile says he was online just a few minutes ago...

He could be perminantly logged in.

In which case everytime he comes online it would register as being online here even if he is too busy to read the posts.

Maybe he takes a peep now and then but just wants to get on with ESB:R without having any more ideas argued about hither and dither.

"Do or do not there is no debating with a committee"

Octorox said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3roDTVzfgrA

 

wow

 

I'd really like to know where they got that shot of Obi and Padme. I'd love to use it in an altered Anakin dream sequence

I suspected that this sort of thing would turn up in the prequels it was a bit of a surprise that it had not (not necessarily an actual romance between Padme and Obi-Wan but more Anakin becoming so paranoid about losing her that he would leap to that conclusion).

gavin77 said:

Still no Adywan......hope that brother is ok.......

He is prolly busy having a life and working on this Star Wars thing he's been dabbling with in his spare time, I hope he is ok too but then I hope we all are all the time.