Bingowings

darthmunky said:

ben_danger said:

a moon with a moon! i guess it is possible.

Haha, I meant a planet acting as a moon to Endor.

Planets go around stars and moons go around planets, you can't have a planet going around a moon.

As posted above you can have moons with moons the orbital mechanics involved are weird, especially with the Death Star factored in but that's Ok because it Star Wars and not Science Fiction so it doesn't have to work scientifically.

The question you want to ask is why?

If it's to make the sky look more interesting I can't help but think it would make more sense to give the moon of Endor an interesting planet to be the moon of rather than giving a moon a moon which isn't refererred to once in the film.

Moons have to go around a planet rather than directly go around a star on it's own, it can be any size and have an atmosphere but it needs to go around a planet. Though it isn't necessary for Star Wars, in terms of planets we know about an Earthish sized moon with an atmosphere would have to go around a gas giant and be far away enough from it to not be ripped appart by the mass of the planet (in the EU the planet Endor was lost and only the moon remains but that doesn't make sense, that would make the moon not a moon anymore).

It would also have to be near a star which used to be thought to be a problem as in our Solar System the gas giants are all relatively far away from the sun and it was generally assumed to be the case with most stella systems. We have recently discovered gas giants orbiting other stars very closely indeed (not that this is necessary for Star Wars but it adds a bit of colour to my explanation).

So for the forest moon to work scientifically (not that it has to) you would need a large gas giant close to a star with a forest moon orbiting it from a safe distance (ergo my green ringed gas giant).

The forest moon's nearest Solar cousin is Saturn's moon Titan :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(moon) 

If it was as close to the sun as the Earth it could possibly support human life but that would mean moving Saturn nearer to the sun too.

Here's a nice artistic representation of what Titan looks like in it's current position :

Having a moon going around the moon adds a whole level of complexity (scientifically speaking, compounded by having the Death Star going around it as well).

But really we don't have to worry about that sort of thing, just ask does it make narrative sense and does it look interesting those are Star Wars sort of questions.

If you stick a larger yellow sun and a forest into the above picture of Titan you get a general idea what a ringed Endor looks like from it's forest moon.

"The ysalamiri are totally removed"

There are still a few left on pg 24.

vaderios said:

Here a more...morning shot. I added the missing AT-AT.

-Angel

There are some very pretty pictures to be played with when you google "forest sunrise" (which sounds like a house paint blend or a hippy's child name).

This one is a corker :

Jeyl said:

adywan said:i don't care about proof or any thing else. i don't believe a damn word GL says anymore. He changes what he says all the damn time to try and cover all the cockups he made with the rest of the saga. Just watch early interviews about star wars and then later ones. he changes his story all the time.

Oh, believe me. I know. Just go to rebelscum's forums and look up some of my postings (User: Jeyl) and you'll see I say much of the same. A lot of the posters there treat me as your fans treat me. Saying my opinions are pointless and that what he wants to do with Star Wars is his decision, not ours.  Guess you got as much of a dedicated fanbase as George Does.

And honestly, I meant no offense in regards to the hippocrate remark and I apologize if it was taken as such. I just hope that people here understand that I like that spinning effect just as much as any other old time effect in the movie. It's something that I will miss seeing in your cut.

Your views aren't pointless they just belong on this thread as Adywan has let his views known, this thread is just about ESB:R there are other threads where you can freely chat about this topic without bogging this one down needlessly.

Jeyl said:

adywan said:Why am i being a hypocrite just because i'm removing a spinning starfield? It was because i never really liked the effect and its only ever seen in eps 4 & 5 . they omit it in ROTJ. Please explain yourself as to why this is being hypocritical?

I wouldn't have made that point if you had stopped with "I never really liked the effect" because your "they omit it in ROTJ" just doesn't reflect what you're doing at all nor does it refelct what Lucas and his team were doing either. I don't even think you know why the effect wasn't used in RotJ. I do. The effect wasn't used in RotJ because the circumstances of the shots in question are different, not because they 'didn't like it'. It's the same reason why a lot of warp speed effect shots from Star Trek are different. If they didn't like the effect, why didn't they remove it from SW and ESB? Oh, but wait. The prequels didn't use it either so that's 2 our of 6! But you know what the prequels also didn't use? The stretching starfield. Why aren't you getting rid of that? Makes as much sense given the logic behind your reasoning which is pretty much "if it's not in all the movies, it's gone".

What I find silly about your argument is that you have openly stated you don't even like Return of the Jedi as much as the first two, even regarding Empire Strikes Back to be the closest thing to a perfect Star Wars movie. Yet you want to change a special effect from it to match the one that everyone including yourself say is the weakest of the three. That is a pretty weak reason considering that you've also said that RotJ is going to receive the most changes and edits you've done on the Star Wars movies so far.

And where the hypocrisy comes in to play is when you talk about how you're going to handle the prequels. You say that you're going to try and implement much more of the original trilogy content into the prequels, such as voices and effects. Why not implement that stretching stars through the cockpit view and have the spinning star fied occur in the prequels? That would be cool because the original Star Wars had it as did Empire. But no, you're using the weak and ugly RotJ as a reason to remove the effect. If Return of the Jedi and the prequels are such a low point, why are you looking at them as a basis for what the effects should look like when it's for the wrong reasons?

And I say it's for the wrong reasons because I actually asked starwars.com that very question. I asked why the prequels didn't have the stretching star field effects like in the original trilogy, and Lucas (Yep. It was him!) actually responded saying that he wanted the Falcon's escape to be unique and exciting where as all the other effect shots from RotJ and the prequels didn't involve the same set of circumstances. And what two movies have the Falcon escaping something through Hypserspace? Star Wars and Empire. What movies don't feature Hyperspace as a means of escaping something? RotJ and all of the prequels. It's all circumstantial and it's a pity that it's gone now from your edits.

Lucas didn't use the spinning starfield effect in RotJ or the prequels because they didn't need it, not because they didn't like it. Need proof? Watch any official release of Star Wars. They're still there even with all the other alterations.

Yeah but it's only gone from Adywan's version and we don't know what an Adywan ROTJ might look like, he might build a sequence where the Falcon needs to escape in ROTJ and then you could stick a spin on that and in your versions the spin effect would appear in all three of the OT.

That's part of the fun and the point of this game we are participating in, on whatever level we play it.

Ady's versions (when they are all finished) will, I believe, be amazing but it doesn't mean they will be the last word on Star Wars, as long as there are people with the tools and the skills and the ideas, people will continue to add their personal take on these and other films.

So please take your perfectly valid point of view and place it on the Can Anything Be Done To ANH After Adywan? thread :

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Can-anything-else-be-done-to-ANH-after-Adywan/topic/10131/ 

because clearly the spin effect will not appear in these projects.

Jeyl said:

Bingowings said: It's a bit like calling a person who has slaved over a hot stove all day a lousy host because the meal they have provided for our enjoyment isn't salted to our exact requirements when there is a nice big full salt shaker on the table.

I wouldn't call that a fair comparison. In this case, the waiter changed the established recipe because the waiter didn't like it even though no one complained about it and it's never been changed throughout it's many restaurant chains. And as you pointed out, I can always order the original, but the way the waiter delivers it is just sooooooooooo good compared to the original. I just wish I could have that little something that makes it unique to all the other crappy stuff (Effect happens in two movies which are the original Star Wars and ESB. It doesn't happen in the 'lesser' liked Star Wars movies).

Again, I'm just a Star Wars fan who has an opinion and I say the effect, no matter how silly it might seem, works. Most audiences don't ask why because it's cool. Unfortunately this projects asks why to everything, and anything that looks different is a 'nono', even if it's used more than once.

I was actually suggesting you kept all the bits you did like and edited in the bits you felt were missing and create your own edit (giving credit where credit is due naturally).

So my analogy is correct, Ady cooks up a lovely meal and you add the spinning stars you so miss.

No need to call anybody names and everyone is happy.

I think we should be guarded against throwing words like "hypocrite" around (even if the intent is light hearted and I did notice).

It's a bit like calling a person who has slaved over a hot stove all day a lousy host because the meal they have provided for our enjoyment isn't salted to our exact requirements when there is a nice big full salt shaker on the table.

If spinning starfields are your bag go spin them.

It's not as if Adywan has prevented any new copies of the spinning effect from ever seeing the light of day like Mr George.

I'm only saying this because if you are bogged down and busy and you scan read the wrong words it can really bugger your day up and it would be a real pain if that happened to anyone here.

Adding a degree of noise to indicate the ice mist and falling snow which still would fall infront of a close view might give it a bit more depth.

I'm really enjoying your Endor redos Vaderios, they look great.

It might be nice to see my ringed world in your blue skies.

Does anyone have Ralph McQuarrie's production paintings of the Sarlacc pit battle (I'm specifically thinking about the one with a smaller sail barge on the other side of the big one... it made the scene look more like a maritime pirate scene)?

ben_danger said:

well fiendish in the way that the fat alien boo was in dragonball, like utterly retarded but doing bad things.:P

I'm not a fan of the use of the word retarded in that way.

Threepio is a tool (in more ways than one) and he is programmed to translate and perform within the accepted or established codes of procedures and behavior depending on the context.

He would see Amidala as a human being of high rank so it would be doubly doubtful that he would consciously do anything to harm her I assume protocol droids act within strict programming limits like the Asimov rules to make them trusted in high circles.

Otherwise Protocol droids would be planted all over the place and bump off their assumed masters all the time.

To be accepted at such a high level they would need to be conditioned to be safe.

That wouldn't stop someone in the employ of a Sith Lord from sticking a tracking device on or in him.

 Slightly changing the subject, while I was looking up sail barge pictures I discovered this little beauty which looks like the sort of thing we might see on Naboo, Kamino or Alderaan:

ben_danger said:

3po could be quite a fiendish character in that way, perhaps he could send transmissions from the ship alerting darth maul?

Or perhaps he just has a tracking device fitted (I can't see Threepio as the fiendish type myself, if he tried it he'd bugger it up).

ben_danger said:

would it be worth just making endor a planet?

 Not really it makes more sense giving Endor a planet to be a moon of that way you can have an another interesting alien object in the sky and not need to change all those references to a forest or sentry moon in the dialogue.

I suggested some posts back a green ringed gas giant quite far away from the moon to contrast the big orange ringless one filling up the sky of Yavin IV in ANH.

ben_danger said:

a moon with a moon! i guess it is possible.

It is possible but I'd hate to figure out the orbital situation of a moon with a moon getting a new metal moon (or two).

Thank heavens that Star Wars isn't science fiction.

Here's another possible change.

R2's jets are seen as a problem in the prequels as he doesn't have the in OT but to fair he has very little cause to except possibly here:

 That would allow R2 this useful feature in the past and avoid the rather dumb inclusion of a previously unseen magnetic sucker on the skiff being used when the main cast would more likely be keen to get away from the big explosion about to happen.

First we see him in the scenes above.

Then we see him in the staircase scene where Nute Gunray orders the Queen and her people processessed (it is here he orders Threepio to encourage the Queen to sign the treaty and not to leave her until she does he takes these orders literally).

When Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are about to storm the hanger (remove Pananka's line "They need her to sign a treaty to make this invasion of theirs legal." to something similar by Threepio (I can't stand the way Hugh Quarshie delivers most of his lines in TPM anyway, he is a good actor but I understand he wasn't having a happy time making that film".

He is placed with the Queen in most shots and becomes a warning voice for her (or her decoys) always reminding her of the odds against her.

When the Queen and her crew get onto the ship Threepio comes too. and sticks with whoever is wearing the Royal wardrobe until the battle breaks out in the palace at the end.

He can't climb up to the upper levels and is captured before Padme but is brought into the throne room to translate.

When Padme seizes the Viceroy Gunray points to a gun on the floor and orders Threepio to shoot the Queen.

He strongly advices Gunray not to put his life in further danger (thus reminding Gunray about the odds against him) and tells him that assassination is not permitted by his programming.

Padme keeps Threepio as her part of the heavy reparations the Trade Federation have to pay Naboo.

For AOTC he stays on Naboo most of the time in the service of the Queen but when Anakin decides to return to Tatooine Threepio comes along too he pops out for a few minutes to let them know they have a message from Obi-Wan (that way Owen hasn't owned by proxy Threepio for months but has seen him for a few minutes, which explains how he wouldn't twig twentyish years later who he is until Luke mentions Obi-Wan, up until then he was just another droid).

In the droid factory he still loses his head but doesn't get the head swap or enter the arena, Artoo repairs him in the factory and switches off the security systems to allow the Jedi to sneak into the arena with relative ease.

Threepio and R2 attend the wedding (he is gold in all of these scenes).

Threepio is in all the restored deleted scenes in ROTS.

Octorox said:

Bingowings said:

A different beginning for C3PO?

 

but how would he go from being In the hands of the Federation to Amidala and then the rebels? maybe he could somehow escape with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and then somehow replace Jarjar in the scenes that follow? (Wishful thinking I know)

My plan many posts back was to have Nute Gunray order Threepio to stay with the Queen (the Federation bods don't speak English so they need a protocol droid) until she signs the treaty...as she never signs he stays with her until the end (including getting on her cruiser) because Padme doesn't reveal herself to be Amidala until the last act he stays with whoever is calling herself the Queen so he doesn't get off at Tatooine but does follow her into the throne room where he refuses to shoot her because it's against his programming.

There is alot of Anthony Daniels material to sample from and get enough dialogue.

It just needs someone with the patience to slip him into the footage.

I thought it would be fitting if R2 and 3P0 came from the opposite sides in the beginning.

A different beginning for C3PO?

TMBTM said:

"Until this battle station is fully operation, we are vulnerable" and that was days before it's first firing on Alderaan.

Yeah, you got me, I forgot the "we are vulnerable" line!

I guess if the Death Star was all operational exept for its secret beam weapon, it would at last not be "vulnerable", indeed.

Going by the ROTJ line it's possible that the beam weapon was finished first but Tarkin didn't want to show the universe it's power until the Senate was disbanded and it couldn't open troublesome enquiries. It was odd that a design worked on before the Clone Wars and built and tested over two decades wasn't gone over with a fine toothcomb to nail down that small thermal exhaust port (imagine the conspiracy theories in the Star Wars universe).

Forgive me if this sounds incredibly dense but what about sending them a cheque, by the time it's cleared in their account the paypal balance should have cleared in yours (if you offered to send them notification via fax or e-mail and sent it recorded delivery I'd imagine they would be duty bound to hold the camera for you).

The echeque thing is a well known rip-off, I'd avoid it like the plague.

It might be an interesting twist to have notPadme an unwitting Lady Macbeth.

If Anakin was initially shown as being without any ambition or desire to be more than just a navigator on a spice freighter, she could be constantly pushing him to be more than that (only with good intentions not Lady Macbeth's poison).

As Anakin becomes more confident and takes on a more active role she continues to push him to achieve greater and greater things with terrible consequences.

The sadness that Leia remembers comes not just from her husband's fall but from her part in it.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Thought I'd go ahead and post this as well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrJTVzvUxZc

:D

Now you can see why Bail Organa had his memory erased.

1Shouta said:

I got the .avi file, but when ever I try to put it on a DVD+R or a DVD-RW my dvd player says, "cannot play disc". Then I tried converting it to .mpeg2, but it still won't work.

So how do I put it on a DVD+R and be able to enjoy it on a TV, not a computer? I have the full versions of the AVS Media programs.

I mounted mine on Roxio Toast and it has got the double thumbs up from my very fussy cousin on his 50 mile long rear projection screen with Dolby-wreck-the-street-a-round-sound.

There are many other similar programs out there.

1Shouta said:

Or rather than having Vader & Palpy watch over Imperial Star Destroyers, you could make the Death Star look more complete, giving the impression that by the time Episode IV happens it's been complete for a while.

That just makes the problem worse as the Death Star is just about finished in ANH.

That would mean that they almost finished it and then Grand Moff-balled it for nearly a couple of decades.

If Ady goes for the 2 Death Stars in ROTJ idea we could see two being built at once (letting the audience in on the idea of a second Death Star being out there) only to find there were actually three of them, that might be cool.

Building three of them might take over twenty years.

That way you deliberately blow the secret of the theatrical ROTJ only to set the audience up for the new surprise.

More double Death Star fun (they don't have to point the same way up in space).

I would rather remain, "safely anonymous".

I'm just looking forward to seeing these films as good as they deserve to be and having a load of fun chatting with pals helping that along.

bkev said:

Wow... Bingowings, I never saw it that way.  And yet that all makes sense.  Why couldn't that have been explained?

Lucas should have got Tom Stoppard to write the whole thing from his outline and strong guest directors for each one...maybe in some other universe.