Bingowings

I think we should be guarded against throwing words like "hypocrite" around (even if the intent is light hearted and I did notice).

It's a bit like calling a person who has slaved over a hot stove all day a lousy host because the meal they have provided for our enjoyment isn't salted to our exact requirements when there is a nice big full salt shaker on the table.

If spinning starfields are your bag go spin them.

It's not as if Adywan has prevented any new copies of the spinning effect from ever seeing the light of day like Mr George.

I'm only saying this because if you are bogged down and busy and you scan read the wrong words it can really bugger your day up and it would be a real pain if that happened to anyone here.

Adding a degree of noise to indicate the ice mist and falling snow which still would fall infront of a close view might give it a bit more depth.

I'm really enjoying your Endor redos Vaderios, they look great.

It might be nice to see my ringed world in your blue skies.

Does anyone have Ralph McQuarrie's production paintings of the Sarlacc pit battle (I'm specifically thinking about the one with a smaller sail barge on the other side of the big one... it made the scene look more like a maritime pirate scene)?

ben_danger said:

well fiendish in the way that the fat alien boo was in dragonball, like utterly retarded but doing bad things.:P

I'm not a fan of the use of the word retarded in that way.

Threepio is a tool (in more ways than one) and he is programmed to translate and perform within the accepted or established codes of procedures and behavior depending on the context.

He would see Amidala as a human being of high rank so it would be doubly doubtful that he would consciously do anything to harm her I assume protocol droids act within strict programming limits like the Asimov rules to make them trusted in high circles.

Otherwise Protocol droids would be planted all over the place and bump off their assumed masters all the time.

To be accepted at such a high level they would need to be conditioned to be safe.

That wouldn't stop someone in the employ of a Sith Lord from sticking a tracking device on or in him.

 Slightly changing the subject, while I was looking up sail barge pictures I discovered this little beauty which looks like the sort of thing we might see on Naboo, Kamino or Alderaan:

ben_danger said:

3po could be quite a fiendish character in that way, perhaps he could send transmissions from the ship alerting darth maul?

Or perhaps he just has a tracking device fitted (I can't see Threepio as the fiendish type myself, if he tried it he'd bugger it up).

ben_danger said:

would it be worth just making endor a planet?

 Not really it makes more sense giving Endor a planet to be a moon of that way you can have an another interesting alien object in the sky and not need to change all those references to a forest or sentry moon in the dialogue.

I suggested some posts back a green ringed gas giant quite far away from the moon to contrast the big orange ringless one filling up the sky of Yavin IV in ANH.

ben_danger said:

a moon with a moon! i guess it is possible.

It is possible but I'd hate to figure out the orbital situation of a moon with a moon getting a new metal moon (or two).

Thank heavens that Star Wars isn't science fiction.

Here's another possible change.

R2's jets are seen as a problem in the prequels as he doesn't have the in OT but to fair he has very little cause to except possibly here:

 That would allow R2 this useful feature in the past and avoid the rather dumb inclusion of a previously unseen magnetic sucker on the skiff being used when the main cast would more likely be keen to get away from the big explosion about to happen.

First we see him in the scenes above.

Then we see him in the staircase scene where Nute Gunray orders the Queen and her people processessed (it is here he orders Threepio to encourage the Queen to sign the treaty and not to leave her until she does he takes these orders literally).

When Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are about to storm the hanger (remove Pananka's line "They need her to sign a treaty to make this invasion of theirs legal." to something similar by Threepio (I can't stand the way Hugh Quarshie delivers most of his lines in TPM anyway, he is a good actor but I understand he wasn't having a happy time making that film".

He is placed with the Queen in most shots and becomes a warning voice for her (or her decoys) always reminding her of the odds against her.

When the Queen and her crew get onto the ship Threepio comes too. and sticks with whoever is wearing the Royal wardrobe until the battle breaks out in the palace at the end.

He can't climb up to the upper levels and is captured before Padme but is brought into the throne room to translate.

When Padme seizes the Viceroy Gunray points to a gun on the floor and orders Threepio to shoot the Queen.

He strongly advices Gunray not to put his life in further danger (thus reminding Gunray about the odds against him) and tells him that assassination is not permitted by his programming.

Padme keeps Threepio as her part of the heavy reparations the Trade Federation have to pay Naboo.

For AOTC he stays on Naboo most of the time in the service of the Queen but when Anakin decides to return to Tatooine Threepio comes along too he pops out for a few minutes to let them know they have a message from Obi-Wan (that way Owen hasn't owned by proxy Threepio for months but has seen him for a few minutes, which explains how he wouldn't twig twentyish years later who he is until Luke mentions Obi-Wan, up until then he was just another droid).

In the droid factory he still loses his head but doesn't get the head swap or enter the arena, Artoo repairs him in the factory and switches off the security systems to allow the Jedi to sneak into the arena with relative ease.

Threepio and R2 attend the wedding (he is gold in all of these scenes).

Threepio is in all the restored deleted scenes in ROTS.

Octorox said:

Bingowings said:

A different beginning for C3PO?

 

but how would he go from being In the hands of the Federation to Amidala and then the rebels? maybe he could somehow escape with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and then somehow replace Jarjar in the scenes that follow? (Wishful thinking I know)

My plan many posts back was to have Nute Gunray order Threepio to stay with the Queen (the Federation bods don't speak English so they need a protocol droid) until she signs the treaty...as she never signs he stays with her until the end (including getting on her cruiser) because Padme doesn't reveal herself to be Amidala until the last act he stays with whoever is calling herself the Queen so he doesn't get off at Tatooine but does follow her into the throne room where he refuses to shoot her because it's against his programming.

There is alot of Anthony Daniels material to sample from and get enough dialogue.

It just needs someone with the patience to slip him into the footage.

I thought it would be fitting if R2 and 3P0 came from the opposite sides in the beginning.

A different beginning for C3PO?

TMBTM said:

"Until this battle station is fully operation, we are vulnerable" and that was days before it's first firing on Alderaan.

Yeah, you got me, I forgot the "we are vulnerable" line!

I guess if the Death Star was all operational exept for its secret beam weapon, it would at last not be "vulnerable", indeed.

Going by the ROTJ line it's possible that the beam weapon was finished first but Tarkin didn't want to show the universe it's power until the Senate was disbanded and it couldn't open troublesome enquiries. It was odd that a design worked on before the Clone Wars and built and tested over two decades wasn't gone over with a fine toothcomb to nail down that small thermal exhaust port (imagine the conspiracy theories in the Star Wars universe).

Forgive me if this sounds incredibly dense but what about sending them a cheque, by the time it's cleared in their account the paypal balance should have cleared in yours (if you offered to send them notification via fax or e-mail and sent it recorded delivery I'd imagine they would be duty bound to hold the camera for you).

The echeque thing is a well known rip-off, I'd avoid it like the plague.

It might be an interesting twist to have notPadme an unwitting Lady Macbeth.

If Anakin was initially shown as being without any ambition or desire to be more than just a navigator on a spice freighter, she could be constantly pushing him to be more than that (only with good intentions not Lady Macbeth's poison).

As Anakin becomes more confident and takes on a more active role she continues to push him to achieve greater and greater things with terrible consequences.

The sadness that Leia remembers comes not just from her husband's fall but from her part in it.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Thought I'd go ahead and post this as well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrJTVzvUxZc

:D

Now you can see why Bail Organa had his memory erased.

1Shouta said:

I got the .avi file, but when ever I try to put it on a DVD+R or a DVD-RW my dvd player says, "cannot play disc". Then I tried converting it to .mpeg2, but it still won't work.

So how do I put it on a DVD+R and be able to enjoy it on a TV, not a computer? I have the full versions of the AVS Media programs.

I mounted mine on Roxio Toast and it has got the double thumbs up from my very fussy cousin on his 50 mile long rear projection screen with Dolby-wreck-the-street-a-round-sound.

There are many other similar programs out there.

1Shouta said:

Or rather than having Vader & Palpy watch over Imperial Star Destroyers, you could make the Death Star look more complete, giving the impression that by the time Episode IV happens it's been complete for a while.

That just makes the problem worse as the Death Star is just about finished in ANH.

That would mean that they almost finished it and then Grand Moff-balled it for nearly a couple of decades.

If Ady goes for the 2 Death Stars in ROTJ idea we could see two being built at once (letting the audience in on the idea of a second Death Star being out there) only to find there were actually three of them, that might be cool.

Building three of them might take over twenty years.

That way you deliberately blow the secret of the theatrical ROTJ only to set the audience up for the new surprise.

More double Death Star fun (they don't have to point the same way up in space).

I would rather remain, "safely anonymous".

I'm just looking forward to seeing these films as good as they deserve to be and having a load of fun chatting with pals helping that along.

bkev said:

Wow... Bingowings, I never saw it that way.  And yet that all makes sense.  Why couldn't that have been explained?

Lucas should have got Tom Stoppard to write the whole thing from his outline and strong guest directors for each one...maybe in some other universe.

One of the few things that TPM got right was showing Anakin as a slave but as a slave without ambition (other than seeing the stars).

As his ambition grows he remains a slave but becomes more and more frustrated by it.

He is a slave to the Jedi, their disciplines, rules and the special part he is meant to play in their destiny.

He is a slave to emotion and to his perception of the future (this is the weakness Palpatine uses to cage him).

Then he becomes a slave to the dark side (effectively the property of his Master) and his ambition to remove Palpatine's heel from his back.

The only time he isn't a slave is when he decides to place the safety of his son before that of himself.

Anakin redeemed is a stronger man than the weak slave Darth Vader because he is for once his own man.

It's a shame that Lucas potrayed the character so poorly in the prequels because it has such potential as piece of drama but that's a discussion for another place.

DarkFather said:Bingowings, on the last page I explained how Vader is anything but weak. It'd be neat if you decided to respond to it instead of continuing to insist that he's some weakling hiding in a suit.

With respect I think I did respond by re-asserting my view that he is a weak broken person kept alive by machinery and the negative side of the Force.

He is emotionally weak because he is a bully sitting on a house of cards assembled by Palpatine and despite his plans to the contrary feels powerless to do anything about it on his own.

He is physically weak, as soon as his life support is buggered up by Palpatine's Force lightning he dies within a few minutes.

He takes out his weakness on those around him, he can't breath so he chokes the life out anyone who steps on his toes.

He only becomes strong when his compassion tunes him back into the light side of the Force (something Palpatine cannot master).

As a military commander he is limited to controlling people through fear and never commands respect (Tarkin seems to be able to handle both) and he allows his emotional attachment to his son and his hope that it will give him the upper hand over Palpatine to push himself and those around him to ruin.

You can and obviously do hold different views so it's pointless to press them further either way.

You think he is battle hardened and those sounds weaken the strong arm of the Emperor's forces, I think he is battle damaged and the sounds flag up the fragile human hiding inside the bionic monster.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

It would also be nice if someone could do a better version of this.

I thought it made more sense if Tydirium was an Imperial Transporter if it was supposed to be dropping off parts for the moon base.

DarkFather said:

Sevb32 said:

I like the Vader audible reactions, it shows he still feels some pain, even being as much machine as he is. But go back and listen to the original pre SE editions of the vhs tapes or maybe even the pre SE dvds (Which I don't have.) Vader's Carbonite groans sounded like two different ones, in the SE's they both sound more or less the same.

 

 I believe he does feel pain, but then again, why is it even important to know? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think you're implying that it's important we know he's a sentient being. We already know that from the scene in the meditation chamber when the helmet is replaced on his head. And if there's any doubt after that, we'll know for sure when it's revealed that Vader is indeed Luke's father. Why do you need other, superfluous parts that don't go along with the character anyway?

I realize that a lot of it comes down to opinion. I see it from your point of view for sure, and figured I'd share my point of view on the matter. Really, I'm not trying to debate anybody. What I am trying to do is help them to open up their minds to other possibilities, which I think will really in turn help this project. We'll be taking all sorts of awesome things into account. Anyway, you have my view now.

At that point we find out there is something inside there but we don't know what it is, it could be some kind of scarred alien for all we know, it only when we see him in Jedi that we find out for sure that there is a broken human being in there and not the dark demon that we were led to believe.

The conflict between the inner Anakin and the outer Vader defines what his story arc is about in the OT.

But as I said before it's something someone can make an arguement for playing about with (tuning the frequency so you get more Dark Lord than smashed egg) but he is still a weak human in a hard shell so personally it makes sense to me that he responds to having his armour (both physical and emotional) breached.

If Vader is was so strong he would have taken on Palpatine on his own (Palpatine really is strong and hides his great powers behind a mask of being a sick old man, he is the counterpoint to Yoda who hides his power in much the same way).

Vader and Palpatine are at a point of stalemate with each other, they both want the other out of the way and see Luke as the tool for doing it.

In the end it's Anakin's latent ability to feel compassion that makes him strong (even stronger than Palpatine).

There are two Vaders here, the one he wants us to see, the Dark Lord who crushes all who stand in his way and the physically and emotional wreckage that sits inside the armoured shell.

He hasn't had to fight a Jedi in decades (leaving the EU to one side and allowing for the obvious fact that Obi-Wan allowed himself to be killed). So this is the first time he has had to extend himself in this way for a long time.

Luke loses this battle but he puts up a strong fight (with only a few days training and youth on his side) which proves just how weak Vader is becoming.

So I'd allow him a few grunts and grrrrs of anger and pain.

DarkFather said:

He's a Sith, I expect him to act out in rage. Sith use their rage to lash out at their enemies. In this case, he focused it on Luke and ended up taking off the kid's hand. But I'm talking about the exclamations themselves. Do you really think they belong with this towering, villainous half-machine that has been battle hardened? I don't think it does. That's why I suggest to Adywan that it be edited out. I could use the "first time we saw it in that context so it must be true" logic, and going by that, there'd be no point in editing any films. The yells were something that bothered me from the first time I watched ESB, and come to find out, it's bothering some other fans interested in this project as well.

I wasn't saying that because it's the first time it should stay, I was saying that because it's the first time that is the point from which you make any editing decisions from.

Vader is that way now, you can make a good arguement for making him a tougher creature in a re-edit but in the text we are working from he is really a fragile being pretending to be strong, he is hiding the fact that he is a weak, sick old man behind a fear inducing mask and machinery.

I think those responses help reveal that truth to the audience and it's something that pays off in the final chapter.